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Dragon Elite
2009-09-03, 07:35 PM
Hi. 14 6th-8th graders (about half with experience) want me to DM with them.

...
Gah! :eek:
Any help? This will be my second time DMing.

Kylarra
2009-09-03, 07:39 PM
Split the group into 3 different games. 14 characters would be an absurd number.

cut it into 3 groups of 4 and recruit 2 of them to be DMs for the other groups.

Or if you feel ambitious, DM all 3 but on a rotating or different day basis. :smallamused:

Vortling
2009-09-03, 07:45 PM
Seconded on the splitting them into separate groups. 14 will leave little time for everyone's turns in combat. It's also very hard to manage enough monsters to challenge all of them at once. Find out what sort of game they'd all like to play, there will likely be different ideas and that will give you a notion of where to split the groups.
If people don't want to split, recruit at least 2 co-DMs.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-09-03, 07:46 PM
Split the group into 3 different games. 14 characters would be an absurd number.

cut it into 3 groups of 4 and recruit 2 of them to be DMs for the other groups.

Or if you feel ambitious, DM all 3 but on a rotating or different day basis. :smallamused:

Q F T

Dragon Elite
2009-09-03, 09:22 PM
Cool, I have an Assistant DM who's been playing for two years. Also, some of them are insane. They are saying that they want a "heavy roleplaying" game. Thanks for the suggestions, I will definitely split them.

xPANCAKEx
2009-09-03, 09:41 PM
i think the best thing you can do is have a general plot worked out (nothing too indepth), and let the kids have their fun pretending to be all powerful knights, warriors, rogues and sorcerers

keep the fun factor high, the combat flashy and they'll be happy

Lycan 01
2009-09-03, 10:03 PM
My best advice? Just say yes. I learned that rule today, actually. I ran a DnD game for my two college buddies, and I was actually very nice. I gave them +2 bonuses for "situational" modifiers, lowered the difficulty of certain enemies, and doled out XP for things like making me laugh or acting like a hero would, not to mention dropping nicer items than normal. All three of us had a ton of fun - the game wasn't too easy, but I wasn't being a Draconian DM as usual, either. It was a perfect balance...

(Too bad I'm throwing a random Black Dragon at them next week. :smallbiggrin:)


Anyway, if the whole "just say yes" thing works for college students, use it on the kiddos. Albeit, only to a certain degree. I can see where you should still say no...

"I want a rockit launcher!"
"Okay, Timmy, you find a rocket launcher!"
"I SHOOT BILLY IN DA FACE!!"

:smalleek:


Oh, and for the love of all things bright and beautiful, SPLIT THE GROUPS!! O_O

Rixx
2009-09-03, 10:05 PM
Split the groups, but maybe have them all working separately towards the same goal. Maybe they have to solve a mystery together - have the groups write letters in character to each other!

Elfin
2009-09-03, 10:07 PM
Don't dump on the kids.
It's possible that they're an "I shoot Billy in da face!" group, but give them a chance. They said they want a heavy roleplaying game, so try it: the worst thing that can happen is that they get bored and you have to switch gears.
But instead you may find yourself creating the next generation of table-top roleplayers.

Dragon Elite
2009-09-03, 10:19 PM
Again, thank you. Having them work towards the same goal would rock. Now I have to make 14 character sheets. :smalleek: I will make the combat flashy.
Fighter: I attack him.
Me: You cut his arm off.
Fighter Whoa, really?!

This has actually happened.

Lycan 01
2009-09-03, 10:27 PM
Don't dump on the kids.
It's possible that they're an "I shoot Billy in da face!" group, but give them a chance. They said they want a heavy roleplaying game, so try it: the worst thing that can happen is that they get bored and you have to switch gears.
But instead you may find yourself creating the next generation of table-top roleplayers.


This, in my opinion, makes the endevour worth it. You're possibly giving these kids a very fun, very creative, and very safe hobby to get into. The developement of an imagination can be quite important in some people's lives...


Oh, and having each group's interactions affect the other one's makes it totally worth it.

*gasp* I've got it! It can be a dungeon crawl race! :smallbiggrin: Make up a dungeon, or 3 seperate but similar ones, and see who does the best on it! Even better, have some way for them to affect the game. Perhaps setting traps for the other players, leaving notes to help them get past certain problems, or something like that...

Douglas
2009-09-03, 10:37 PM
Totally not my original idea (Tarol Hunt, author of the Goblins webcomic, came up with it) but an awesome way to handle splitting a large group into two:

The characters are cursed. At irregular random intervals (i.e. at the end of each session) one set of characters disappears from the world and gets replaced by the other. When each set of characters appears, they do not know anything about what happened in the time since their last disappearance when the other group walked the world.

There are two possible ways to end the curse. There is some artifact capable of lifting it, or maybe the players have to defeat a certain villain, or whatever other major quest idea you come up with. Make sure it's enough to take the players a good long while to accomplish. The other way is to kill off the other group. If one group dies, the other group is freed. However, while the characters do get a vague feeling of when the switch is coming up, it is very imprecise. Attempting to set up a death trap to kill the other party right after the switch is likely to backfire by killing you before the switch instead.

Ideally, both (or all, if you do this with three or more groups) groups want to remove the curse and want to do it via the quest. Regardless, you get to watch in amusement at the start of each session as each group tries to figure out where they are this time and what happened since their last session.

Kallisti
2009-09-03, 10:41 PM
This, in my opinion, makes the endevour worth it. You're possibly giving these kids a very fun, very creative, and very safe hobby to get into. The developement of an imagination can be quite important in some people's lives...


Oh, and having each group's interactions affect the other one's makes it totally worth it.

*gasp* I've got it! It can be a dungeon crawl race! :smallbiggrin: Make up a dungeon, or 3 seperate but similar ones, and see who does the best on it! Even better, have some way for them to affect the game. Perhaps setting traps for the other players, leaving notes to help them get past certain problems, or something like that...

This. Definitely this.

BizzaroStormy
2009-09-03, 10:44 PM
What do you need to DM 14 middle-schoolers? 14 shock collars.

valadil
2009-09-03, 10:44 PM
Play with them. Definitely split the group. I'd split into two groups of 7 since you don't know how many of them will actually stick around.

I started roleplaying in 6th grade. It was silly, but fun. You won't have to dumb the game down for them, but don't expect powergamers either. Let them run in whatever direction they want. Feel free to run with cliched plots - it's not like they're cliches to newbies.

Shpadoinkle
2009-09-03, 10:51 PM
Yeah, don't try to simplify to the game for them. 12 year olds are smarter than many adults give them credit for.

Lycan 01
2009-09-03, 10:54 PM
My brother and his friend, both 15, took more time to get over the shapes of the dice than to design their characters. :smallconfused:

I'd say its safer to be prepared for RPG newbies rather than pros, given their age. :smalltongue: If they end up being smarter than you expect, bunch the smart ones into one group and run a "real" game for them. Better to take baby steps first, though...

woodenbandman
2009-09-03, 11:08 PM
Totally not my original idea (Tarol Hunt, author of the Goblins webcomic, came up with it) but an awesome way to handle splitting a large group into two:

The characters are cursed. At irregular random intervals (i.e. at the end of each session) one set of characters disappears from the world and gets replaced by the other. When each set of characters appears, they do not know anything about what happened in the time since their last disappearance when the other group walked the world.

There are two possible ways to end the curse. There is some artifact capable of lifting it, or maybe the players have to defeat a certain villain, or whatever other major quest idea you come up with. Make sure it's enough to take the players a good long while to accomplish. The other way is to kill off the other group. If one group dies, the other group is freed. However, while the characters do get a vague feeling of when the switch is coming up, it is very imprecise. Attempting to set up a death trap to kill the other party right after the switch is likely to backfire by killing you before the switch instead.

Ideally, both (or all, if you do this with three or more groups) groups want to remove the curse and want to do it via the quest. Regardless, you get to watch in amusement at the start of each session as each group tries to figure out where they are this time and what happened since their last session.

This is cool as heck.

ondonaflash
2009-09-03, 11:10 PM
Don't condescend to them, if you're running a group for young 'uns in bulk you're probably in some child oriented profession, and know this already, but it is really the most critical thing I can think of when dealing with kids. They can tell when you're being condescending, and they hate it.

Newspaper
2009-09-03, 11:13 PM
I remember my first game :smalltongue:... We had about 10 people trying to play in one game. The fact that we had maybe three PHs and none of us had ever played it made it pretty hectic. I'm not even sure everyone had a character when we started the game.

If this is their first time playing then I suggest (splitting them into groups) running them over a short overview adventure maybe with pre-made characters. This will give them a better idea of what the game is like and I'm betting a few of them won't be as interested as others. This should help to "thin the herds".

Also set the date for your next group meeting at the end of each meeting. This is much easier then calling everyone up to schedule.

BobVosh
2009-09-03, 11:57 PM
Totally not my original idea (Tarol Hunt, author of the Goblins webcomic, came up with it) but an awesome way to handle splitting a large group into two:

The characters are cursed. At irregular random intervals (i.e. at the end of each session) one set of characters disappears from the world and gets replaced by the other. When each set of characters appears, they do not know anything about what happened in the time since their last disappearance when the other group walked the world.

There are two possible ways to end the curse. There is some artifact capable of lifting it, or maybe the players have to defeat a certain villain, or whatever other major quest idea you come up with. Make sure it's enough to take the players a good long while to accomplish. The other way is to kill off the other group. If one group dies, the other group is freed. However, while the characters do get a vague feeling of when the switch is coming up, it is very imprecise. Attempting to set up a death trap to kill the other party right after the switch is likely to backfire by killing you before the switch instead.

Ideally, both (or all, if you do this with three or more groups) groups want to remove the curse and want to do it via the quest. Regardless, you get to watch in amusement at the start of each session as each group tries to figure out where they are this time and what happened since their last session.

I want to run this so badly now... DAMN YOU! I have 7 players commonly...hmm, if I can get 1 more I can run 4 and 4...

Akal Saris
2009-09-04, 12:25 AM
One of my current players joined us back when he was still in middle school (and now he's also DMing his own game and applying to universities, how crazy is that?!). As DM, the easiest way to keep him interested in the game was to involve his character in a combat at least every session even if the other PCs were doing something else, and to keep fights simple and fun (so lots of weak mobs or a single bad-ass, but no grappling or tripping, for example).

I also had to call out his character a lot too, since he was pretty shy for the first year or so - just a simple "Does your paladin agree to this too?" usually was enough.

Don't be surprised at how quickly the PCs learn, either - a lot of kids start playing WoW and other RPG computer games young, which really helps them adapt to tabletop games, especially those that emphasize combat roles like 4E. This isn't stereotyping either - the PC that I mentioned earlier absolutely loved the 4E games I ran, since in several ways it was just like playing a toned-down version of a raid encounter. In fact, I might be part of the last generation that started with D&D and then later learned how to play MMO's.

Though with a very large # of PCs I might go with 3.5 over 4E, since the fights will go much faster, and most characters have simpler combat actions in the 1st-10th level range.

oxinabox
2009-09-04, 12:28 AM
Now I have to make 14 character sheets. :smalleek:.
Don't make the character sheets for them.
It may be easier to make them yourself, but it isn't worth it.
You'll have to spend all your time explainign to them what their abilities do.
It's easier i ntrhe long run to spend 8 hours, answering "Should i put points in balance?"
than to have to deal with "I want to run along that branch, I'll make a tumble check?"

Haven
2009-09-04, 12:31 AM
What system are you using? 4e, 3.5, something else entirely?

Anyway, good luck however you handle it. I think the important thing is definitely keep an eye towards the kind of game where their actions have visible lasting effects on the world around them--they'll love that. Though I guess that goes for most gamers, lots of DMs seem to forget about it.

Hawriel
2009-09-04, 03:36 AM
14 kids playing D&D at once....

Play Tomb of Horrors!!

No really it would be a fun night. The traps are entertaning, kids love to be creative, there is no graphic violence (beyond an Indiana Jones movie), and no sex. Last one to die or thoughs who survive get bragging rights. Thoughs who die early get to help you run the tomb.

elliott20
2009-09-04, 04:04 AM
14 kids playing D&D at once....
No really it would be a fun night. The traps are entertaning, kids love to be creative, there is no graphic violence (beyond an Indiana Jones movie), and no sex. Last one to die or thoughs who survive get bragging rights. Thoughs who die early get to help you run the tomb.

Now THAT is an awesome idea.

Though, I gotta be honest, I don't think D&D 3.5E is the best candidate to do this with. Think about it, you gotta manage 14 kids at the same time, and even with assistant DMs, you're gonna have to supervise all the groups at the same time. That's a lot of work to be dealing with already without having to deal with the potential problems of the 3.5E game being quite involved and complicated.

I'm not saying 6-8th graders can't figure out the rules, I'm saying that trying to manage the expectations and interpretations of 14 different kids is going to be a LOT of work. And I just cant' help but feel that this is going to be easier if you were to run a leaner system.

Katana_Geldar
2009-09-04, 04:18 AM
Here (http://www.roleplayingtips.com/articles/roleplaying_games_and_kids.php) and here (http://www.roleplayingtips.com/articles/rpg_club.php) are two good articles to help you. I rather like the idea of having a mini convention and get some of your gaming friends to come for the day and DM to get all the newbie things out of the way.

elliott20
2009-09-04, 04:25 AM
Katana_Geldar, that's an excellent resource! I know it was meant for Dragon Elite but this will be helpful for me as well. Thanks for posting that.

Mathius
2009-09-04, 08:02 AM
Before throwing my information in, I have two questions for you.

1) Are you asking if we think you should do this, or have you already decided that you are, and asking for help on how to tackle it?

2) What kind of experience does the players have?

If you are indeed asking if we think you should, my answer is yes. Go for it.

If you have already decided that you will and are looking for assistance my advice is this: Sit the entire party down individually and have them all create character concepts. Ask them each what they want their characters to do, and help them create character concepts out of the Player's Handbook and nothing else. Do not allow any of the fluff books first time around. And make sure that you explain that it is a process and that they will not be able to do everything they want their characters to do right off the bat.
With some of them being first time players, a Dungeons and Dragons character generator would work wonders. It is simple, easy to use and is relatively balanced as far as I have seen (I use them to create NPCs all the time).

This being only your second time DMing, the best thing is to keep it simple. You just have to remember that a standard party is 4-5 characters. A challenge rating of 1-3 is a standard challenge for this level. All you need to do is double or maybe triple the amount of opponents to make the encounter a challenge.

Also, make sure that you sit your players down and explain in no uncertain terms that such a large party is not standard and it could take effects in the game. They need to be patient and bear with you as you are a relatively new DM.

Things will be difficult at first. There will be arguments. There will be interruptions. There will be a massive amount of you repeating yourself and having to tell some of your players to shut up so you can hear others, but in the end, it will be extremely fun. Always a rule of mine, but imperative with a group this size, WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN. Notes are your friend.

One of my favorite campaigns ever was seven month long war campaign involving 43 players at one time. It was epic.

Don't be intimidated and make sure you stick to your guns. You could also utilize the players that have experience as rules lawyers (in the sense that they can fact-check to make sure that everything runs smoothly).

Good luck to you.

Katana_Geldar
2009-09-04, 07:11 PM
You also may want to consider house rulling away some rules temporarily or keeping them inside a city. Keeping players on a short leash while they learn to play is not such a bad idea.

Dragon Elite
2009-09-04, 07:22 PM
Wow... thanks again for the feedback.

Elfin
2009-09-04, 09:55 PM
When's the first game?

Dragon Elite
2009-09-04, 10:12 PM
I haven't decided yet. 2-4 weeks? Also, the reason I'm the DM is because I am the most qualified student in the middle school.

Elfin
2009-09-05, 12:12 AM
...
Oh.
Huh. :smallconfused:
Nice punchline, by the way.

Haven
2009-09-05, 12:52 AM
Nice punchline, by the way.

I can't say I was entirely surprised.

Anyway, yeah, definitely split them into a few separate groups, that'll make your life a lot easier.

Dragon Elite
2009-09-05, 08:17 AM
I am going to run each of the groups in the same dungeon, allowing them to leave notes... or not.

Elfin
2009-09-05, 08:39 PM
I can't say I was entirely surprised.

Really? What was it that made you suspect?

Lupy
2009-09-05, 08:48 PM
Also, where are you playing?

AslanCross
2009-09-05, 09:05 PM
I was able to DM 2 separate 6-person groups of completely newbieriffic 12-15 year-olds at Lv 5 using 3.5. Having people this young is not as hard as people make it out to be, although I did give a rather long lead time for them to learn the rules. I thought up the campaign over summer break and had them learn the rules then. We started when classes resumed. (most of them were my current/former students and all were members of our creative writing club at school, so I knew their personalities enough to know what interested them)

I ran weekly 1.5 hour (:smallyuk:) games in the faculty room at school. The other teachers were ok with it as it was a club activity.

One of the groups lasted almost 2 years (we got up to Lv 10). The other group was far more dysfunctional and exploded after 3 or so sessions. I dropped them because they were less committed and my schedule was stretched to its absolute limit.

I totally recommend splitting them into 3 groups or taking a pilot group of 4-5 (6 at most) members each and then asking those guys if they could DM the others. One group alone is hard enough to manage.

EDIT: One very, very important piece of advice: Kill distractions. Whether they be computers, pets, PSPs, NDSs, or people. Do not allow them at the table. Absolutely not. This is true for any game, but I noticed this was very prevalent among players of this age. They're likely to distract themselves enough through OOC banter, but other distractions should be removed.

The New Bruceski
2009-09-05, 09:54 PM
Here's my advice, having been that age once:

Resist the urge to put in nymphs, succubi, or anything like that. It never turns out well.

Katana_Geldar
2009-09-06, 05:13 AM
Consider putting together some "cheat sheets" with what you need to add up for certain rolls and checks. I've done this with my newbie group and I'd say kids would need it too, it would save you for answering the same question for the hundredth time.

AslanCross
2009-09-06, 05:28 AM
Consider putting together some "cheat sheets" with what you need to add up for certain rolls and checks. I've done this with my newbie group and I'd say kids would need it too, it would save you for answering the same question for the hundredth time.

Seconded. Even though my players are by now relatively experienced, they still find these helpful.

Katana_Geldar
2009-09-06, 05:36 AM
Also, how many sets of dice do you have? You'll need LOTS probably. The cheapest way to get gaming dice is a teaching supply shop, forget pretty and go functional.

Lord Loss
2009-09-06, 07:24 AM
14 kids playing D&D at once....

Play Tomb of Horrors!!

No really it would be a fun night. The traps are entertaning, kids love to be creative, there is no graphic violence (beyond an Indiana Jones movie), and no sex. Last one to die or thoughs who survive get bragging rights. Thoughs who die early get to help you run the tomb.

WIN. Pure, simple WIN.

Dragon Elite
2009-09-06, 09:03 AM
I have at least 7 of each dice. I will make cheat sheets.

TheWerdna
2009-09-06, 10:21 AM
This, in my opinion, makes the endevour worth it. You're possibly giving these kids a very fun, very creative, and very safe hobby to get into. The developement of an imagination can be quite important in some people's lives...


Oh, and having each group's interactions affect the other one's makes it totally worth it.

*gasp* I've got it! It can be a dungeon crawl race! :smallbiggrin: Make up a dungeon, or 3 seperate but similar ones, and see who does the best on it! Even better, have some way for them to affect the game. Perhaps setting traps for the other players, leaving notes to help them get past certain problems, or something like that...


A good way to do that would be to mkae one realy realy big dungeon and have each group start in oposit ends (it should eb about 3 times to size of a dugeon made to be cleared by 1 group). the groups will most likely overlat and find rooms that otheres have alredy delt with.

as said above they can leave clues or traps for the other groups. Aswell have 1 big prize at the end and the group that gets there first gets it. adding soem competition between the groups (the prize should be like a extra amount of money, nothing to big)

Also figure out what every one wants to play befor you split up the groups. that way you can mkae the groups based on the classes to make as balenced partys as you can (like makeign sure every group has some sort of healer, expert, warrior type, caster)