Party balance and ranger optimisation.

[SydneyLosstarot]

there's this girl in our gaming group who's just recently joined us and is totally new to dnd(or tabletop games in general).

things led to things, and she turned out to be a ranger in a 3-man party with a beguiler(me) and a generalist wizard(a friend of mine, not a great optimiser)

is there a way to keep the ranger on par with other party members, but without overcomplicating the build?
'cause the roleplaying saves the day, but when it comes to dice-rolling, the poor girl has too few options and fails at most of them anyway.

[Keld Denar]

Alternate combat styles? Strong Arm style from one of the Dragon Mags gives Power Attack at level 2 instead of TWF, which is fun.

Alternatively, Wildshape Ranger in the SRD is pretty strong, especially if she PrCs into Master of Many Forms and turns into lots of fun creatures. Splash a little Nature's Warrior for Serpent's Coils which are grapplicious and maybe a few levels of Warshaper for unadulterated awesomeness and she's got a pretty fun and interesting concept. Who doesn't like to turn into random crap?

Also, Mystic Ranger (SRD?) is pretty good. Combine that with the Sword of the Arcane Order and she's pretty much a gish in a can. Cherry pick a lot of the really good gish spells like Bladeweave, Whirling Blade, Enlarge Person, and whatnot and she'll be pretty effective straight through with Ranger20.

[Skorj]

Somone has to mop up after the casters have had their way - the first full-BAB character in the party always has work to do (plus a lot of the good batman spells require some actual fighter-type to be buffed to be useful, at least as low-mid level). I take it you're the skill monkey? If she didn't dump INT she could still help out with skill-related stuff. Finally, it looks like she's the only one with access to any divine spells. As limited as the ranger is in that regard, as the only divine caster that's still important.

If I were that ranger I'd tank at low level, but focus on optimizing archery damage for the point when summons take over tanking (maybe throwing in a PrC to optimize that) - or just switch to druid after a couple levels, of course.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Archery or TWF? If TWF, I can't help you, but for Archery, point her at Greater Manyshot, the Scout class, Swift Hunter, and then give her the SpC for Ranger spells. That should bring her up to par with the casters, as long as you don't over-optimize.

Alternately, show her the Wildshape Ranger from UA and the MoMF. You can't build a weak one of those.

[SydneyLosstarot]

thx guys.

wildshape it is then, to minimize bookkeeping.
maybe we'll agree on some homebrew changes as well, to seal the deal.

[Coidzor]

<_< And remember to get her a Wand o' Cure light.

Or lesser vigor, but I don't think that is given to rangers.

[BooNL]

Alternatively, confer with your DM to use some fixed TWF rules.

If it's a ranger she wants and not a shapeshifter, you shouldn't force her to play something she doesn't want in order to up her powerlevel. Work with her to optimize within the concept of the character.

With that said, some levels in fighter, advancing to Dervish is a pretty good way to make a TWF-er. Especially if you use one of the more common TWF fixes around (TWF gives full iteratives, ITWF and GTWF both reduce the penalty by -1).

[Doc Roc]

Wildshape Ranger is my studied recommendation. I consider it a tier 3 class as do most others. It's powerful, elegant, and quite awesome.

[BobVosh]

Scout -> dervish is always good too. Keeps the ranger feel.

Also if you use the PF ranger they are a lot stronger than the regular ranger while still being simple. Still not the most optimized damage deal though. I just really like improved precise shot at level 6.

[Doc Roc]

Scout -> dervish is always good too. Keeps the ranger feel.

Also if you use the PF ranger they are a lot stronger than the regular ranger while still being simple. Still not the most optimized damage deal though. I just really like improved precise shot at level 6.

I don't think this is really a great option for a new player. I think Wildshape ranger is a lot easier, a lot stronger, and a lot more evocative.

[BobVosh]

Wildshape being easier? I musta missed something.

[Person_Man]

You know this exact same thing happened to my group about a year ago. A new gamer girl who had never played D&D before joined the group and played a Ranger. She had the hardest time with iterative attacks/archery feats and figuring out the constant jumble of modifiers. It got so bad that someone wrote up a Spirit Shaman for her (spontaneous casting Druid without Wildshape), compiled a list of easy to use but fun spells, picked out easy to use and fluffy feats (Track, Spirit Sense, etc), and just handed it to her. She liked it much better, because she didn't have to change anything about her fluff, but she also didn't have to worry about most of the annoying combat crunch. I suggest doing the same.

[Darcand]

My girlfriend's first real character was an archery focuses ranger and she found if difficult remembering which attacks had which bonus. To get around that I just wrote them all down for her so that she knew what penalty each sequence of attacks received.

I also encouraged her to take humans as her favored enemy and the feat that adds levels to your animal companion, which I do not remember the name of.

[PinkysBrain]

is there a way to keep the ranger on par with other party members, but without overcomplicating the build?
The Ranger archery spells are quite powerful actually. In the hand of classes with full caster levels who can get those spells in some way they are actually way overpowered ... but if you just use them as intended they are fine.

PHB2, SpC and CoR have the spells, MoE has the Wand Bracelet which will make casting them from wands a little easier (don't forget, Rules Compendium removed the minimum of standard action casting time ... so swift spells from wands are cast as a swift action). MoE also has minor schemas, which are nice for the occasional quickened Hunter's Mercy.

PS. houserule the effective druid level to be ranger level -4 for animal companion ... this way it stays useful at higher levels (>8) if you spend a feat on it (natural bond).

[SydneyLosstarot]

wow, some great input there


someone wrote up a Spirit Shaman for her (spontaneous casting Druid without Wildshape), compiled a list of easy to use but fun spells, picked out easy to use and fluffy feats (Track, Spirit Sense, etc), and just handed it to her. She liked it much better, because she didn't have to change anything about her fluff, but she also didn't have to worry about most of the annoying combat crunch.

To get around that I just wrote them all down for her so that she knew what penalty each sequence of attacks received.
this.
amazing idea.
we'll see to it.


PHB2, SpC and CoR have the spells, MoE has the Wand Bracelet which will make casting them from wands a little easier (don't forget, Rules Compendium removed the minimum of standard action casting time ... so swift spells from wands are cast as a swift action). MoE also has minor schemas, which are nice for the occasional quickened Hunter's Mercy.

PS. houserule the effective druid level to be ranger level -4 for animal companion ... this way it stays useful at higher levels (>8) if you spend a feat on it (natural bond).

thanks!
don't think she's ready to get into spellcasting yet, but we'll try to, using the above advice to write everything out.

you guys are really helpful.

personally, i'm always at a loss when a person doesn't want to know all the rules) guess that's the geekery in me