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View Full Version : Druid/MoMF/Wildshaper - a Trap?



ShneekeyTheLost
2009-09-05, 10:15 AM
Okay, I had a player in a game I am running who wanted to create a 'wilderness-based tank', and we decided on Wildshape Ranger/MoMF10/Wildshaper5 for the progression.

That was when I realized something disturbing: Neither MoMF nor Wildshaper actually advance Wildshaping. So, this character would ONLY be able to wildshape 1/day, and limited to 5HD creatures. Sure, he could theoretically shift into dragons, vermin, assume supernatural abilities... but how many 5hd critters are there that are worth taking the form of?

I've heard how powerful this is, properly used, but I can't see how MoMF can take advantage of all the additional form types when the HD limitation is so crippling.

Have I missed something?

woodenbandman
2009-09-05, 10:27 AM
If you mean War Shaper, then here's what's what: Master of Many Forms was errata'd to stack with wild shape, War Shaper does not. Maybe that's an oversight but I don't think so considering that Nature's Warrior, from the same book WAS errata'd to stack for wild shape.

So in that light a good build would be Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Nature's Warrior.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-09-05, 10:31 AM
If you mean War Shaper, then here's what's what: Master of Many Forms was errata'd to stack with wild shape, War Shaper does not. Maybe that's an oversight but I don't think so considering that Nature's Warrior, from the same book WAS errata'd to stack for wild shape.

So in that light a good build would be Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Nature's Warrior.

Okay, but Nature's Warrior doesn't grant the immunities that Warshaper has, and has 'dead' levels which promotes spellcasting the ranger doesn't have (Wis is a dump stat).

At least MoMF promotes Wildshape, though, otherwise it would be the biggest trap since Mystic Theurge. Thanks for pointing that out.

I can point out both options for my player and see which she prefers.

mikej
2009-09-05, 10:38 AM
I never saw the importance of wildshaping into a Dragon. Most have HD far to high anyways to shift into the stronger old aged Dragons. I always saw MoMF for the Beholder, War Troll and 12-headed Hydra. Warshaper's goodies are just too good to pass up.

Eldariel
2009-09-05, 10:48 AM
I never saw the importance of wildshaping into a Dragon. Most have HD far to high anyways to shift into the stronger old aged Dragons. I always saw MoMF for the Beholder, War Troll and 12-headed Hydra. Warshaper's goodies are just too good to pass up.

MoMF really exists for versatility. Cloaker Lord, Kir-Lanan Gargoyle, Ironmaw, Darktentacles, Will-O'-Wisp, War Troll, Lesser Dusk Giant, there's always a different form for each job (12-Headed Hydra isn't even available without Frozen Wildshape).

mikej
2009-09-05, 10:52 AM
MoMF really exists for versatility. Cloaker Lord, Kir-Lanan Gargoyle, Ironmaw, Darktentacles, Will-O'-Wisp, War Troll, Lesser Dusk Giant, there's always a different form for each job (12-Headed Hydra isn't even available without Frozen Wildshape).

mehh, guess I was looking at it from the wrong angle.

I didn't mention Frozen Wildshape, since I thought that was a given if someone was going the WS Ranger/MoMF/X route, Oh well

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-09-05, 11:10 AM
Master of Many Forms says you add your class level to your number of wild shape uses/day, and as per errata (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) adds to the HD for what forms you can take. Warshaper doesn't add to either of those, but it is extremely useful. Nature's Warrior is good for a single level dip early on to get Nature's Weapon so you'll overcome DR/Magic without magic items, but I wouldn't take any more than a single level.

You don't really need any more than WSRanger 5/ MoMF 7, that gets you War Troll and 12-headed Cryohydra with the feat Frozen Wild Shape. There aren't really any other forms you'd want to take once you get those, so don't worry about Warshaper not advancing your max HD. More MoMF levels later on would be useful just to have additional options, but I'd see them as filler levels to reach 20.

I'd go with a human, take Power Attack and Combat Reflexes at level 1 and use a reach weapon, Alertness at 3, Leap Attack at 6, Frozen Wild Shape at 9, Robilar's Gambit at 12, maybe Multiattack at 15, and get Defensive Sweep at level 18. In your 12-headed Cryohydra form with Robilar's Gambit active you'll get a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked, plus with MoMF 7 you'll have their Fast Healing 22. Cave Troll is available at level 9, and is second only to War Troll at level 12. Those can get into most dungeons and other indoor areas that a huge hydra probably wouldn't fit in. Your only Ranger spell prepared should be Rhino's Rush, and get a few 1st level Pearls of Power to use it more often than 1/day. Charge, power attack, and leap attack with rhino's rush and you'll probably kill whatever you hit.

You'll want a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp as soon as you can afford one. Other than that you should prioritize Gloves of Dex for Combat Reflexes and definitely get Armbands of Might, all Wilding Clasped. If you're starting at a fairly high level get the Armor/Mantle/Ring of the Beast from Complete Champion, the mantle gives your natural weapons a +1 Enhancement so you won't need Nature's Warrior. The three combined make you count as one level higher for what you can Wild Shape into, so you'll get War Troll at level 11.

For a cheesy substitute, make a Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) and get Endurance and Alertness starting out to take your first class level in Master of Many Forms. Take it to 7th level to get all the extraordinary qualities of your forms and take Warshaper 2 or 3, after that it doesn't really matter what classes you take. That gets Wild Shape at will as a free/swift action as an 11th level Druid for a +1 LA, with access to only one or a few specific animals. MoMF still gives you access to bigger/smaller forms of the specified creature types, and you'll get Cave Troll form at ECL 3 and War Troll at ECL 4.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-09-05, 11:28 AM
Master of Many Forms says you add your class level to your number of wild shape uses/day, and as per errata (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a) adds to the HD for what forms you can take. Warshaper doesn't add to either of those, but it is extremely useful. Nature's Warrior is good for a single level dip early on to get Nature's Weapon so you'll overcome DR/Magic without magic items, but I wouldn't take any more than a single level.

You don't really need any more than WSRanger 5/ MoMF 7, that gets you War Troll and 12-headed Cryohydra with the feat Frozen Wild Shape. There aren't really any other forms you'd want to take once you get those, so don't worry about Warshaper not advancing your max HD. More MoMF levels later on would be useful just to have additional options, but I'd see them as filler levels to reach 20.

I'd go with a human, take Power Attack and Combat Reflexes at level 1 and use a reach weapon, Alertness at 3, Leap Attack at 6, Frozen Wild Shape at 9, Robilar's Gambit at 12, maybe Multiattack at 15, and get Defensive Sweep at level 18. In your 12-headed Cryohydra form with Robilar's Gambit active you'll get a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked, plus with MoMF 7 you'll have their Fast Healing 22. Cave Troll is available at level 9, and is second only to War Troll at level 12. Those can get into most dungeons and other indoor areas that a huge hydra probably wouldn't fit in. Your only Ranger spell prepared should be Rhino's Rush, and get a few 1st level Pearls of Power to use it more often than 1/day. Charge, power attack, and leap attack with rhino's rush and you'll probably kill whatever you hit.

You'll want a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp as soon as you can afford one. Other than that you should prioritize Gloves of Dex for Combat Reflexes and definitely get Armbands of Might, all Wilding Clasped. If you're starting at a fairly high level get the Armor/Mantle/Ring of the Beast from Complete Champion, the mantle gives your natural weapons a +1 Enhancement so you won't need Nature's Warrior. The three combined make you count as one level higher for what you can Wild Shape into, so you'll get War Troll at level 11.

For a cheesy substitute, make a Human Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) and get Endurance and Alertness starting out to take your first class level in Master of Many Forms. Take it to 7th level to get all the extraordinary qualities of your forms and take Warshaper 2 or 3, after that it doesn't really matter what classes you take. That gets Wild Shape at will as a free/swift action as an 11th level Druid for a +1 LA, with access to only one or a few specific animals. MoMF still gives you access to bigger/smaller forms of the specified creature types, and you'll get Cave Troll form at ECL 3 and War Troll at ECL 4.What he said.