Dealing with a complaining player.

[Galileo]

I have a problem with one of the members of my D&D 3.5 group. He only plays either spellcasters or rogues, and now he hates both the sorceror and wizard. He says that the wizard gets too few spell slots, and when I suggest that he play a sorceror, he complains that they can't learn from scrolls. To remedy this, he tried to make his own class, the Theorist. The idea was that it had spell slots as per sorceror, but could learn from scrolls. It also had Trapfinding and Evasion, for some reason. When I pointed out the overpoweredness of this, he decided that dropping the starting spells and the spells you gain for levelling up would be fair. We all wanted to actually start the game at this point, so I let it go for the time being. We got given our mission from the mayor and set off. Cue random encounter, which took far longer than necessary, due to two things. One, the ranger, who was kind of new to D&D, forgot his animal companion. Two, the gorram Theorist forgot to pick up any spells in town. He had absolutely no spells whatsoever. So he was reduced to throwing knives and running away. Anyway, any suggestions on what to do?

[Milskidasith]

Why didn't you just suggest he play gestalt?

[Mathius]

The class in and of itself sounds fine, but you may want to sit down with him and rehash it based on the features he seems to get and stretch them out. Over the course of 20 levels this class could work out just fine.

In my games I allow wizards and sorcerers alike to use scrolls as they see fit. On top of that I allow my wizards to cast spells strait out of their spell books when they run dry on spells. I assign a 10% chance per level of spell that it will destroy their spellbook, but that just keeps them from using it as a reason to not reserve their spell slots until needed.

[SparkMandriller]

Theorist doesn't get a familiar, right?

[Milskidasith]

Dude, without a familiar it would be way underpowered. It needs full BAB and d20 hit dice to make up for it.

[FMArthur]

First, retcon his class choice. It is not balanced. There are actual solutions that basically get him what he wants at a price.

Introduce him to wizard school specialization. You ban two schools and specialize in one: you can't learn or prepare spells from your forbidden schools, but you get one more spell per day of each level chosen from your specialty school.

In Complete Mage, the Focused Specialist wizard option was introduced. Ban yet another school (3 total) and lose a spell slot from every level. You gain two new spell slots per spell level to prepare spells from your specialty school, effectively giving you 3 spells from your specialization and 3 from other schools. Same total as a sorceror but more restrictive (it's not very restrictive if you pick Conjuration or Transmutation, which are versatile and powerful schools).

[mikej]

Dude, without a familiar it would be way underpowered. It needs full BAB and d20 hit dice to make up for it.

Also cut the option to specialize. Than it's very balanced. /sarcasm

I don't pay much attention to whiners in my game. Is he the only player in your group that does this and what do the other players think?

[Mathius]

Dude, without a familiar it would be way underpowered. It needs full BAB and d20 hit dice to make up for it.

Don't listen to this ^. The familiar really doesn't add much. You get a few additional feats and the ability to use your familiar to deliver touch attack spells. But if the familiar dies you take an XP hit (no matter what) and you can't replace it for a year.

Oh yeah. That's totally worth having the highest hit dice in the D&D universe and having a high BAB.


NOT!

[Milskidasith]

I take it you didn't get the reference, then.

[Ranos]

Oh yeah. That's totally worth having the highest hit dice in the D&D universe and having a high BAB.


NOT!
You may be right. I think we should allow the class to fight with two swords to make up for it. The loss of a familiar is just too severe, poor guy will just keep lagging behind the rest of the party.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Yeah, maybe give him some other feats as well...casters suck when they have to go to melee.

[Temet Nosce]

Don't listen to this ^. The familiar really doesn't add much. You get a few additional feats and the ability to use your familiar to deliver touch attack spells. But if the familiar dies you take an XP hit (no matter what) and you can't replace it for a year.

Oh yeah. That's totally worth having the highest hit dice in the D&D universe and having a high BAB.


NOT!

Yeah, he should also add the entire TWF line and all good saves just to make up for it.

[sofawall]

I made a focused Conjurer gish, never really noticed any lack. Regular slots for buff/blast, conj slots for debuff/BC/Batman.

Anyway, Evasion and Trapfinding, ask him why he gets those. I am curious.

[valadil]

It sounds like you have a player who wants to win rather than be challenged. I say you go easy on him and let him be successful with something other than a full caster or evasion rogue. That will at least let him see other characters working.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

In Complete Mage, the Focused Specialist wizard option was introduced. Ban yet another school (3 total) and lose a spell slot from every level. You gain two new spell slots per spell level to prepare spells from your specialty school, effectively giving you 3 spells from your specialization and 3 from other schools. Same total as a sorceror but more restrictive (it's not very restrictive if you pick Conjuration or Transmutation, which are versatile and powerful schools).

+1 here. Focused Specialist is not really that hard to swallow, once you've got spellcasters down, which is to say, not blasting.

Really, not enough spell slots on a wizard? Even without specializing, if you use the spells wisely, you should have enough to do in combat to keep you busy. I mean, summon some durable dudes at the start of combat. You now have rounds/level actions without using anymore spells.


Some more background information would be nice though. What levels do you guys usually play at? What source books do you have access to? If reserve feats are on the table, he should be fine playing a wizard. Does he play spellcasters as turrets or does he know that there is more mileage in buffs and the like?

[Chineselegolas]

Focused Specialist is a great one for most casters. Playing a specific type of caster, can do that role really well be it blaster, summoner or debuffer.

As for having trapfinding and evasion why not swap evasion for mettle. More of a caster feature than evasion.

Alternatively if he likes casters and rogues, why not try a Beguiler. Yes, they can be over used in many groups, but they are a great class to play

[Galileo]

Okay, first off, I'm not the DM for this campaign. The player in question is the only one who has a problem finding a class he likes. I'm one of the two most experienced players in our group, and we're both trying to help him find solutions other than making his own class.

Basically, he originally wanted a wizard with more spells per day and sneak attack. We are planning on trying gestalt sometime in the future, so he will get his wish that way.

Valadil, I don't really understand what you're saying. Let him play something other than a full caster or rogue? He point blank refuses to play anything else.

[Grumman]

I was going to suggest a two step process:
1. Does he have a point?
2. Can you do anything about it?

...but he fails at step 1. If he wants his full spellcaster to be even better, and expects you to allow homebrew instead of just using legitimate PrCs and ACFs, tell him to get lost.

[Eldariel]

Valadil, I don't really understand what you're saying. Let him play something other than a full caster or rogue? He point blank refuses to play anything else.

Rogue 1/Focused Specialist: Conjurer 4/Unseen Seer [CMage] 10/Arcane Trickster 5. Was that so hard? All you need is Complete Mage.

[Amphetryon]

Sounds to me like the player in question wants a Beguiler.

[kamikasei]

Valadil, I don't really understand what you're saying. Let him play something other than a full caster or rogue? He point blank refuses to play anything else.

I think what Valadil's suggesting is that the player wants a full caster for the power, and a rogue for the ability to avoid traps and damage, because he's paranoid about "losing". So, get him to play another class but go easy on him so that his paranoia will be reduced and he'll become more open to different styles.

However, if he refuses to play anything else... well... I have to agree with the people saying "screw him". It does sound like he's basically demanding to be more powerful than the top tier in the game.

You can try to address his specific concerns with a build such as what Eldariel suggests, though. Or a Rogue/Beguiler/Unseen Seer would do well, alternatively.