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Darwin
2009-09-06, 10:00 AM
I, as a DM, need a few good suggestions to make a certain fire elemental NPC in my group disappear (read: die a horrible and irrevoceable death). Suffering from a sudden lack of creativity I turn to the good people of the playground in hopes of inspiration.

The group is currently level 5, and I'd prefer a reasonable and level-appropriate solution.

kamikasei
2009-09-06, 10:06 AM
?

Elementals can't be rezzed except by highly powerful magic, so anything that kills him will do it. Why is it difficult to kill him?

Kylarra
2009-09-06, 10:07 AM
Perhaps a water elemental?

Cryo-hydra?

Maybe a large river if the party mage doesn't have fly for some reason?

xPANCAKEx
2009-09-06, 10:11 AM
set up a battle with the BBEG - let the fire elemental hold them off long enough for the party to make their escape

this will of course set up a need for vengence and provide many a plot hook

Eldariel
2009-09-06, 10:12 AM
Umm, toss some relatively small Dragon at them. That Ice Breath is gonna wreak havoc on the Fire Elemental. Young Adult White would be a level appropriate encounter for them provided they have all their daily resources to throw at it...too bad White Dragon breath isn't terribly impressive.

Meh, toss a Young Red with access to the Breath Energy Substitution-spell through a scroll or whatever. Red Dragon breathing Ice might be a nice surprise anyways :P

Darwin
2009-09-06, 10:12 AM
?

Elementals can't be rezzed except by highly powerful magic, so anything that kills him will do it. Why is it difficult to kill him?

It wouldn't be hard at all, but it I can't target it directly with a monster or anything like that (it's a familiar, long story, don't make it a discussion whether I should kill a player's familiar or not, please. :smallwink:)

I need it to somehow look like an accident. A trap, a monster that specifically hates everything associated with fire. I'm not asking because I can't kill it, but because I can't think up a way that'll make it look like an accident.

EDIT: Eldariel you've given me exactly what I was looking for. The campaign they're running features a few dragons, the white one I'll send after them could easily be explained as a hitman or minion of one of the bigger ones. Thanks :smallbiggrin:

PinkysBrain
2009-09-06, 10:16 AM
It's a lot easier to answer questions with a modicum of detail and what you yourself have considered. For instance, I could say ... a cleric with the Water Domain (or another domain which allows him to turn fire elementals). To which you might reply you already considered that but he has too many HD (there are ways to boost turning level though) to which I would say it would have taken less time to mention his HD in the first place :)

Kylarra
2009-09-06, 10:17 AM
Well if you use the cryohydra, then if they stay within its range long enough to breath once, it'll be toast... er I guess extinguished. :smalltongue:

The Neoclassic
2009-09-06, 10:22 AM
Hmm, an intriguing dilemma. Killing off a fire elemental that's a familiar...

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is a dungeon or outdoor adventure which requires swimming. Something or someone (or if in a dungeon, some sort of slowly-closing trap) is coming after the players. If the elemental stays, he's going to be mercilessly killed. If he goes into the water, if he doesn't die right away, it'd be easy to find a way to get him entangled in some nasty aquatic plant or such which would trap him long enough for him to be totally drown'd. :smallbiggrin:

As far as traps, if they're in a dungeon, there might be a trap which fills the room with water. Make it just tricky enough so that the PCs can figure it out, but only after they're up to their necks (which is probably too high for the fire elemental to survive- I forget how much exposure to water will kill them, unfortunately).

For monsters who specifically hate fire elementals, water elementals are always an easy choice. Perhaps an NPC who lost their home or parents to a fire, or had a bad experience with fire elementals, might also be a good choice. Heck, a town might even forbid fire elementals from entering its borders due to fear of property damage. Any complaint from the caster, and the ensuing scuffle could easily kill the elemental.

None of these ideas are great, granted, but hopefully at least one will serve as an inspiration point for a better one. Best of luck! :smallsmile:

AppleChips
2009-09-06, 10:22 AM
So a decanter of endless water wouldn't work?

Or perhaps a local firestation tries to put him out?

Darwin
2009-09-06, 10:24 AM
It's a lot easier to answer questions with a modicum of detail and what you yourself have considered. For instance, I could say ... a cleric with the Water Domain (or another domain which allows him to turn fire elementals). To which you might reply you already considered that but he has too many HD (there are ways to boost turning level though) to which I would say it would have taken less time to mention his HD in the first place :)

Well said, but I'm not looking for a detailed plan, just a few suggestions I can get a little inspiration from :smallsmile: If I needed more than that I would have provided more details.

EDIT: The Neoclassic you're being too modest, you definitely had a couple of great suggestions there :smallwink: I might go ahead with the water elementals, perhaps I could switch out one of the unimportant rooms in their current dungeons with a room featuring a trapped fountain that summons water elementals while slowly filling the room with water :smallamused:

Kylarra
2009-09-06, 10:26 AM
Hmm, an intriguing dilemma. Killing off a fire elemental that's a familiar...

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is a dungeon or outdoor adventure which requires swimming. Something or someone (or if in a dungeon, some sort of slowly-closing trap) is coming after the players. If the elemental stays, he's going to be mercilessly killed. If he goes into the water, if he doesn't die right away, it'd be easy to find a way to get him entangled in some nasty aquatic plant or such which would trap him long enough for him to be totally drown'd. :smallbiggrin:

As far as traps, if they're in a dungeon, there might be a trap which fills the room with water. Make it just tricky enough so that the PCs can figure it out, but only after they're up to their necks (which is probably too high for the fire elemental to survive- I forget how much exposure to water will kill them, unfortunately).

For monsters who specifically hate fire elementals, water elementals are always an easy choice. Perhaps an NPC who lost their home or parents to a fire, or had a bad experience with fire elementals, might also be a good choice. Heck, a town might even forbid fire elementals from entering its borders due to fear of property damage. Any complaint from the caster, and the ensuing scuffle could easily kill the elemental.

None of these ideas are great, granted, but hopefully at least one will serve as an inspiration point for a better one. Best of luck! :smallsmile:
Fire elementals can't enter non-flammable liquid.

Eldariel
2009-09-06, 10:26 AM
EDIT: Eldariel you've given me exactly what I was looking for. The campaign they're running features a few dragons, the white one I'll send after them could easily be explained as a hitman or minion of one of the bigger ones. Thanks :smallbiggrin:

Glad it works for you. I must warn you though, as I said, the breath on White Dragons is quite wimpy. If you have Draconomicon, I'd strongly consider giving it a metabreath feat or two to make it slightly more impressive (or at least, frequent; Young Adult White qualifies for Recover Breath and Maximize Breath, among others). The standard damage is 17.5 on a failed save; that needs to be thrown out a few times before it's sufficient.

waterpenguin43
2009-09-06, 10:36 AM
Make the party fight clerics of bidoolpoolp (or another evil water god/goddess) with the water domain, as well as the trapped fountain idea, but with dimensional lock attached. (So the fire elemental can't get away.)

Darwin
2009-09-06, 10:39 AM
Case closed. I'll go with the water filling room paired with water elementals idea. I thank everyone who posted for your advice, it is most appreciated :smallbiggrin:

Morquard
2009-09-06, 12:32 PM
Just be careful, if its something that is too obviously targeted at the fire elementals they'll figure it out and the player might be pissed.
If it dies in some fight thats one thing, a trap that instant kills the pet and then slowly allows the rest to swim out through the ceiling is just suspicious.

kpenguin
2009-09-06, 12:40 PM
Why do you need it to disappear?

daggaz
2009-09-06, 01:06 PM
Why do you need it to disappear?

Cuz he let his player have a freaking fire elemental as a familiar, and is now discovering why the DMG generally limits wizards to frogs and snakes and birds and kittens and such..

Calmar
2009-09-06, 02:06 PM
Cuz he let his player have a freaking fire elemental as a familiar, and is now discovering why the DMG generally limits wizards to frogs and snakes and birds and kittens and such..

Stay alert at all times. :biggrin:

Jair Barik
2009-09-06, 02:25 PM
As an alternative make them hate the elemental.
E.g. Psions who can control flames, Clerics with the fire domain, a room full of explosives and oil... Do 1 or two of these then hit them with an ice dragon or something. Hopefully this will weaken the blow (they may think it deserved it) but the risk is theyd cotten on.

Alternatively have them adventure to another plane within a dugeon and hit them with a dismissal trap. Party go to a booby trapped room on material plane (as a art of the trap) but the elemental is native to the plane of fire, oops sorry guys elementals not dead you can get it back but doing so could have some complexity to it

Melamoto
2009-09-06, 02:30 PM
Well, unless he got it from Bonded Summoner. But then that would just be the DM being a ****.

Jair Barik
2009-09-06, 02:32 PM
suppose it also wouldn't work if it was a regular material plane being polymorped by some unusual magic into an elemental...

Darcand
2009-09-06, 02:40 PM
what happens if the party is in transit and it rains?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-09-06, 10:43 PM
Well said, but I'm not looking for a detailed plan, just a few suggestions I can get a little inspiration from :smallsmile: If I needed more than that I would have provided more details.

EDIT: The Neoclassic you're being too modest, you definitely had a couple of great suggestions there :smallwink: I might go ahead with the water elementals, perhaps I could switch out one of the unimportant rooms in their current dungeons with a room featuring a trapped fountain that summons water elementals while slowly filling the room with water :smallamused:

Three words: Cone of Cold.

The caster you faced tossed a Cone of Cold at your meat shield. Unfortunately, your fire elemental familiar just so happened to be in the blast radius. Oops.

Andras
2009-09-07, 01:46 AM
Three words: Cone of Cold.

The caster you faced tossed a Cone of Cold at your meat shield. Unfortunately, your fire elemental familiar just so happened to be in the blast radius. Oops.

That's nasty, effective, and very believable.

Darwin
2009-09-07, 08:28 AM
The fire elemental was a heavily watered down version, well suited for the player who really wanted it more for flavor than power. I needed to get rid of it for storytelling reasons, which we shall not delve deeper into.

As a side note: I placed an overflowing fountain trap in a room, with simple iron doors blocking the exit, every 1d4 rounds the fountain would produce a CR3 water elemental (only one could be present at any given time though). The room would be filled in 10 rounds, leaving the players with a minute find a solution. A cruel, efficient but manageable trap with several solutions (clog the fountain, kick in the iron door, or simply attack the door until it broke).

Sadly for my players they decided to spend all their time and resources battling the water elementals that kept coming out of the fountain, and not until the entire room stood under water did they consider getting their butts out of there :smallamused: Our first TPK in quite a while ensued.