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Waargh!
2009-09-07, 06:14 AM
It is said that an encounter power has 5m duration used outside a battle. What about if it grants temp hit points? Like has an effect: every ally gets 2 temp hp. Will they be ruled to stay until rested (as in PH) or it is assumed that they go away after 5m?

On another note, I was wondering, the "Defensive Healer" feat grants +CHA bonus to def to the next attack roll. Again, does this mean until 5m if you use healing word outside of battle, or just next attack roll whenever it happens?

Well, I will guess there are no certain rules, just wondering...

Charity
2009-09-07, 07:18 AM
Encounter powers have all sorts of durations, that can vary from, a round, till the end of your next round, or occasionally save ends, or even to the end of the encounter it will be defined in the power description...

I think you are confusing the part where it says that encounter powers recharge after approx 5 mins outside of combat, so a dragonborn can use his dragon breath every 5 mins, or an Eldarin can teleport every 5 mins, or the most common case a cleric can heal someone outside combat every 5 mins (twice).

I believe defensive healer has no effect outside combat. Though I'd have to look up the precise wording of the feat to see if a case could be made to hold over the bonus, I believe these things tend to have an 'until your next round' clause in them to aviod such abuses.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-07, 08:02 AM
It is said that an encounter power has 5m duration used outside a battle.
Then it lasts until the end of your out-of-battle encounter, that is, until just before the start of your next battle. No, that's not very useful.


Well, I will guess there are no certain rules, just wondering...
There's also the "bag of rats" rule: you are not allowed to use combat powers unless you're facing a credible threat (e.g. you can't attack a bag of rats and expect each dead rat to trigger bonuses for your other attacks).

Indon
2009-09-07, 08:09 AM
Per the PHB page 294, temporary HPs last until you rest. I do believe this makes them an exception to the general duration rule for encounter powers.

Edit: For that matter, does 4E have the same specific-beats-general system that 3rd edition has?

Starsinger
2009-09-07, 08:28 AM
Technically being granted temporary hp is an instantaneous action like being healed or taking damage.

Yuki Akuma
2009-09-07, 08:30 AM
Per the PHB page 294, temporary HPs last until you rest. I do believe this makes them an exception to the general duration rule for encounter powers.

Edit: For that matter, does 4E have the same specific-beats-general system that 3rd edition has?

Of course it does. All games do. That's how RPGs and TCGs work.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-07, 08:36 AM
Per the PHB page 294, temporary HPs last until you rest. I do believe this makes them an exception to the general duration rule for encounter powers.
...oh yeah, except for that, of course.


Edit: For that matter, does 4E have the same specific-beats-general system that 3rd edition has?
Yes, even though most games don't (and in particular most RPGs don't). In this, 4E is more like a CCG than like common RPGs.

Yuki Akuma
2009-09-07, 08:43 AM
What? Any RPG that allows any sort of customisation at all has "Here are the basic rules. Here are the ways to break the basic rules." If that's not "specific trumps general", then I don't know what is.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-07, 08:46 AM
What? Any RPG that allows any sort of customisation at all has "Here are the basic rules. Here are the ways to break the basic rules." If that's not "specific trumps general", then I don't know what is.
Actually, that only goes for any rules-heavy RPG. ("RPG that allows any sort of customisation" being a tautology). Rules-light RPGs don't do exception-based design because they don't need to. D&D needs it because it places so much more importance in The Rules than the average RPG.

Also, for instance, GURPS and Whitewolf are much less exception-based than D&D is, although this is a matter of scale. But e.g. if you play a mortal in Whitewolf, then pretty much the only 'exceptions' are the optional perk/flaw rules.

Yuki Akuma
2009-09-07, 09:03 AM
Also, for instance, GURPS and Whitewolf are much less exception-based than D&D is, although this is a matter of scale. But e.g. if you play a mortal in Whitewolf, then pretty much the only 'exceptions' are the optional perk/flaw rules.

...And a good chunk of the merits, mostly the Fighting Style ones.

But yes, I see your point. Okay, any RPG with more complexity than, say, Risus, has at least some exception-based aspects to its rules.

(Actually so does Risus, but those are optional rules and don't count.)

Better? :smallsmile:

Thajocoth
2009-09-07, 01:49 PM
From the PHB:

"Stance: A stance power lasts until the end of the encounter, for 5 minutes, or until you use another stance power."

"Duration: Most powers take effect and then end—
their effects are instantaneous, perhaps as brief as a
single swing of your sword. Some powers last beyond
your turn, however—for instance, until the end of the
current encounter or until the end of your next turn. If
you use a power outside combat, it lasts for 5 minutes
unless otherwise noted. Durations are discussed in
more detail on page 278."