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View Full Version : Lich King - Not that one! [Template; PEACH]



Obrysii
2009-09-07, 10:08 AM
I hope this little thing is not too anemic - I am hungry for criticism, feedback, and additional rules.



Feared among all things, the dreadful High Lich is a force to be reckoned with: backed by an army of undead minions, these potent spellcasters are such that even mighty Liches bow before them. Thankfully rare, these megalomanical monsters seek to take greater command of the world, raising armies and bringing discord to the world.

Nearly impossible to destroy, the might of a High Lich is unwaivering – and unstoppable.

Creating a High Lich

A “High Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature that is currently a Lich, Dry Lich, Dracolich or Demilich (referred to hereafter as the base creature), has at least twenty caster levels, and is capable of upgrading its phylactery.

A High Lich has all of the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature's size and type do not change.

Hit Dice: The creature's hit dice do not change, but it gains the maximum number of hit points per hit die.

Special Qualities: A High Lich retains all of the base creature's special qualities and gains those described below.

Dominate Lich (su): Though as an Undead, Liches are normally immune to mind-affecting effects, the High Lich posses the ability to dominate other Liches, as per the Dominate Monster power, with unlimited duration. A High Lich becomes instantly aware if the Lich breaks free of its control or is destroyed. A High Lich maintains control even if its body is destroyed. A High Lich can control up to a maximum of 8 Liches, and typically have that many under its command. A High Lich cannot dominate another High Lich.

Turn Resistance (ex): A High Lich's turn resistance improves to +8.

Damage Reduction (su): A High Lich's damage reduction improves to DR 20/epic and bludgeoning.

Share Phylactery (su): A High Lich has many more possibilities to avoid death than a typical Lich: it can share any and all phylacteries of the Liches it is currently dominating. This is automatic – the High Lich does not need to designate a phylactery it is sharing; upon destruction of its body, it can reform at any of the dominated Liches' phylacteries.

Reforming at a dominated Liches' phylactery is taxing, and requires 3d10 days instead of the typical 1d10 needed if it had reformed at its own phylactery.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Int +4, Wis +4, Cha +4.

Feats: High Lichs gain the Leadership feat as a bonus feat if they do not already have it, or Epic Leadership if they have the Leadership feat and meet the prerequisites.

Level adjustment: Same as the base creature +5

The High Lich's Phylactery
The most difficult part of becoming a High Lich is the upgrading of its phylactery. This dangerous procedure enables the High Lich to use not just its own phylactery, but those of its enslaved Lich minions.

Each High Lich must upgrade its own phylactery, which requires alchemical and arcane substances worth at least 225,000gp and 6000xp to modify.

Athaniar
2009-09-07, 11:03 AM
Even if it isn't "that one", I suggest you rename it Lich-Lord or Arch-Lich or something like that in order to avoid confusion.

The Neoclassic
2009-09-07, 11:21 AM
Even if it isn't "that one", I suggest you rename it Lich-Lord or Arch-Lich or something like that in order to avoid confusion.

High Lich, Superior Lich, King of the Damned, Lich General, Prince of Undead... There are a lot of other options for naming this template. You can probably find one which feels just right, even if it's not the name you originally wanted to use. :smallsmile:


Feared among all things, the dreadful Lich King is a force to be reckoned with: backed by an army of undead minions, these potent spellcasters are such that even mighty Liches bow before them. Thankfully rare, these megalomanical monsters seek to take greater command of the world, raising armies and bringing discord to the world.

An army of minions suggests that these individuals ought to have the Leadership feat or already have powerful undead creation/control spells. Just make sure that the requirements for lich and for this ensure that.


A “Lich King” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature that is currently a Lich or Demilich (referred to hereafter as the base creature), has at least twenty caster levels, and is capable of upgrading its phylactery.

Capable of upgrading its phylactery? Does this basically mean that it currently has access to said item and meets all the usual phylactery-creation requirements?


Dominate Lich (su): Though as an Undead, Liches are normally immune to mind-affecting effects, the Lich King posses the ability to dominate other Liches, as per the Dominate Monster power, with unlimited duration. A Lich King becomes instantly aware if the Lich breaks free of its control or is destroyed. A Lich King maintains control even if its body is destroyed. A Lich King typically maintains control over four to eight Liches at once.

Is there any maximum number of liches that a Lich King can dominate at once? Or is this already covered in some other set of dominating-undead related rules? Sorry, undead aren't my strong suit. :smallredface:

Anyway, looks good overall. I'll probably try to think up more ideas/fluff, or at least check in again to see if anything I contributed was useful. :smallwink:

Zeta Kai
2009-09-07, 11:25 AM
Share Phylactery (su): A Lich King has many more possibilities to avoid death than a typical Lich: it can share any and all phylacteries of the Liches it is currently dominating. This is automatic – the Lich King does not need to designate a phylactery it is sharing; upon destruction of its body, it can reform at any of the dominated Liches' phylacteries.

That has got to be the most annoying enemy ability ever. Killing this thing for real is gonna be a real grind. Good luck keeping one of these down for long. My players would have my bloody head if I used this. :smallyuk:

Godskook
2009-09-07, 12:00 PM
That has got to be the most annoying enemy ability ever. Killing this thing for real is gonna be a real grind. Good luck keeping one of these down for long. My players would have my bloody head if I used this. :smallyuk:

This is an epic monster, so we should at least assume that any party going up against it will have access to 9th level spells. Fighting a Lich without Soul Bind would seem silly anyway, and it now becomes a necessity. At least, if I understand how soul bind works.

vampire2948
2009-09-07, 02:07 PM
This is an epic monster, so we should at least assume that any party going up against it will have access to 9th level spells. Fighting a Lich without Soul Bind would seem silly anyway, and it now becomes a necessity. At least, if I understand how soul bind works.

Some DMs don't let soul bind work on liches, since their soul isn't technically in their body. At least - my one said that.

Trap the Soul / Soul Bind is a good idea, if your DM lets it work. Probably not a good choice of action if your DM wants you to hunt down the other liches and such.

Amadi
2009-09-07, 02:24 PM
That has got to be the most annoying enemy ability ever. Killing this thing for real is gonna be a real grind. Good luck keeping one of these down for long. My players would have my bloody head if I used this. :smallyuk:

Makes for a brilliant campaign BBEG, however. :smallwink:

Zeta Kai
2009-09-07, 03:20 PM
Makes for a brilliant campaign BBEG, however. :smallwink:

Perhaps, but it makes for an anticlimax, or rather, a series of anticlimaxes.

"Yay! The villain has been vanquished! He's dead, & the world is saved!"

"Great. Now go do it again."

"..."

Neochrist
2009-09-07, 04:24 PM
Agree on adding Leadership or more Undead creation stuff to it.

On the note of him being extraordinarily hard to kill with his large number of phylacteries: Maybe consider giving him some kind of problems when spawning from a phylactery that isn't his. Stat or Level Drain that slowly comes back to normal? Losing control of one lich upon respawn? He maybe has to use two normal phylacteries to regain form because the other phylacteries can't handle his immense awesomeness?

I like the idea of a super-lich mastermind though!

Lysander
2009-09-07, 09:09 PM
This is a really cool idea, but I think it does need a maximum number of liches it can control at once, and it should be somewhat difficult to replace a destroyed lich minion. It's fun for players to have destroy the eight minions of the dark lord, not so fun for players to destroy the eight easily replaceable minions of the dark lord.

What about this rule. Lich Kings can cast dominate monster on any lich, with the normal duration of the spell. To make it permanent and allow reformation at that lich's phylactery there could be a high xp cost. There's no limit to how many liches they can control but the xp cost makes it unlikely for them to have more than eight at a time, and if one is destroyed they probably won't be able to replace them for at least a year if they can even find a lich to bind.

Obrysii
2009-09-08, 06:52 AM
Thank you for your feedback everyone.

I rather prefer to keep the name, as the word king, at least to me, is quite a bit stronger than general. Lich Lord might work.

I will edit the first post to give them the Leadership feat and to limit the number of Liches to 8.

I have made it so that it takes three times as long to regenerate at a dominated liches' phylactery as it would at its own.

Nero24200
2009-09-08, 07:12 AM
If you like the name because of the regal feel that comes, how about somthing like "Lich Master" or "King of Liches" just so to emphasise that it's not meant to be a representation of a certian Wow figure.

Admittldy, one thing I might add is somthing under the entry to say that, while the template can be applied to any lich or demi-lich, I might add that at one time, only one lich can hold this title.

Other than that, looking good. The creature is sutibly epic and would make for an interesting and frustrating BBEG for the PC's.

imp_fireball
2009-09-08, 05:59 PM
That has got to be the most annoying enemy ability ever. Killing this thing for real is gonna be a real grind. Good luck keeping one of these down for long. My players would have my bloody head if I used this. :smallyuk:

It's a pretty easy idea for an epic quest if I ever saw one. Can't think of an endgame? Throw in a lich king.


Lich Lord might work.


What about Lich Baron? Or Lich Csar? xD

Ponce
2009-09-08, 07:14 PM
Master Lich?

You should standardize how this template interacts with existing templates in all respects rather than having things like "Increases to +8" or "adds 4 to the base creature" etc etc.

Yeah, this would make a pretty fun campaign backbone. Backbone. Get it? BackBONE. Har har har...

Sorry, I'll stop...

DragoonWraith
2009-09-08, 08:10 PM
You should probably have a thing in there saying that the Lich King cannot force his dominated Liches to not reform in their phylacteries, and that any phylactery currently reforming a Lich is not available to the Lich King to reform in. So the quest becomes to kill the 8 dominated Liches, and then kill the Lich King. 1d10 days is a really rough time requirement, but epic magic being what it is, well, I imagine it could be done...

Obrysii
2009-09-09, 08:06 AM
I'm not really sure what you mean, Ponce.

I like your idea, DragoonWraith, but I think that would be better as a plot device - like a major magic item the PCs assemble that curses the Lich King such that he cannot use his Lich minion's phylacteries while they themselves are regenerating.

But I could add language like,

"A Lich King cannot regenerate using a phylactery that is already being used to regenerate its own Lich."


Edit: When I get time I'm gonna stat out a Walker in the Waste-->Demilich-->Lich King ... the most unstoppable being ever. A Dry Demilich King.

8 phylacteries from Dry Lich, 7 from Demilich, 8 from Lich King = 23 phylacteries. Plus isn't there a spell that can break phylacteries into smaller pieces in one of the Faerun books?

GallóglachMaxim
2009-09-09, 08:24 AM
So the quest becomes to kill the 8 dominated Liches, and then kill the Lich King. 1d10 days is a really rough time requirement, but epic magic being what it is, well, I imagine it could be done...

Or to collect all the phylactries, beat him, and then put them out on a table and play whack-a-lich-king.

Rhydeble
2010-02-04, 03:36 AM
I'm not really sure what you mean, Ponce.

I like your idea, DragoonWraith, but I think that would be better as a plot device - like a major magic item the PCs assemble that curses the Lich King such that he cannot use his Lich minion's phylacteries while they themselves are regenerating.

But I could add language like,

"A Lich King cannot regenerate using a phylactery that is already being used to regenerate its own Lich."


Edit: When I get time I'm gonna stat out a Walker in the Waste-->Demilich-->Lich King ... the most unstoppable being ever. A Dry Demilich King.

8 phylacteries from Dry Lich, 7 from Demilich, 8 from Lich King = 23 phylacteries. Plus isn't there a spell that can break phylacteries into smaller pieces in one of the Faerun books?

Why would you dominate a lich, if you can dominate a dry lich?

JoshuaZ
2010-02-04, 09:06 AM
So what happens if two Lich King dominate each other?

Obrysii
2010-02-04, 09:16 AM
Why would you dominate a lich, if you can dominate a dry lich?

If they don't exist in the campaign, if the Lich King doesn't have knowledge of them, if the Lich King doesn't want to deal with the Dry Liches' heat aura, etc - plenty of reasons.



So what happens if two Lich King dominate each other?

I would imagine that the DM would likely be unwilling to allow two Lich Kings in the same setting, but if he does, the one who succeeds his or her will save is the dominate one, I suppose.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-04, 09:29 AM
I would imagine that the DM would likely be unwilling to allow two Lich Kings in the same setting, but if he does, the one who succeeds his or her will save is the dominate one, I suppose.

Yes, but the other one can then order the other to dominate him and deliberately fail his will save. Fun with phylacteries now results.

Maybe just make the dominate ability not apply to other Lich Kings?

Obrysii
2010-02-04, 12:26 PM
Maybe just make the dominate ability not apply to other Lich Kings?

Done and done.

TheLash
2010-02-04, 01:48 PM
I think this looks great.

Lapak
2010-02-04, 01:58 PM
Very neat! I think 'High Lich' might have the right tone, in terms of a name. One question: does the Lich King lose its '...and bludgeoning' DR, or is it supposed to be DR 20/epic and bludgeoning?

Narazil
2010-02-04, 02:05 PM
A “Lich King” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature that is currently a Lich or Demilich (referred to hereafter as the base creature), has at least twenty caster levels, and is capable of upgrading its phylactery.
I just have to ask - no love for the Dracoliches? :smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2010-02-04, 02:58 PM
The image of this guy regenerating at the same time as another Lich using the same phylactery is hilarious. For names, Emperor Lich might work (Emperors > Kings dontchaknow). Lich Ceasar? Grand Lich?

Obrysii
2010-02-04, 07:11 PM
I will change it to High Lich.

I have changed the DR appropriately and added in that yes, Dracoliches can become High Liches. :)

Ponce
2010-02-04, 07:30 PM
The only Lich I see is this thread. ZING!

Zexion
2010-02-05, 07:40 PM
What about this rule. Lich Kings can cast dominate monster on any lich, with the normal duration of the spell. To make it permanent and allow reformation at that lich's phylactery there could be a high xp cost. There's no limit to how many liches they can control but the xp cost makes it unlikely for them to have more than eight at a time, and if one is destroyed they probably won't be able to replace them for at least a year if they can even find a lich to bind.

Perhaps an exponential EXP cost that doubles with each new addition?
1st: 1,000
2nd: 2,000
3rd: 4,000
4th: 8,000
5th: 16,000
6th: 32,000
7th: 64,000
8th: 128,000
9th: 256,000
10th: 512,000

As you can see, it would require a massive amount of EXP to get over six or seven lich servants this way.
Good?

Gelscressor
2010-02-05, 10:44 PM
I like this template for the most part. My only (minor) critism is that I'm not really sure if the +5 LA is justified. I mean, considering a regular lich gives +4 LA; a high lich lich(...if you know what I'm saying) has a level adjustment of +/9/.

Some food for thought:
It might be appropriate to make a high lich immune to any control attempts of other liches; in a hypothetical situation where this otherwise might occur. For that matter, perhaps it's not a bad idea to make a high lich /wholly/ immune to becoming controlled/dominated.
Secondly, you could consider adding some sort of circle magic thing to it, a shared spell spell pool, or something like that. Regardless of what you do exactly, I'm primarily suggesting to allow High Lich to somehow ''leech'' from his lich servants.

EDIT: If your still not happy about the name, how about Lich Sovereign or Lich Monarch?