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stenver
2009-09-07, 04:04 PM
I plan on making an Urban campaign. I am good at isolating players, making them survive in the wilderness in seemingly hopeless and hostile environments the way that they still have hope and struggle on. But now i want to do something different. I want to do something i have always failed before - an urban campaign.

Right now as a DM, my first goal has always been to get the players the hell out of city as fast as possible and make sure they play many sessions before they get the slightest change to get back. But now i want to make my whole campaign based in a city

So im asking you, what rulebooks do you suggest besides PHP, PHP2, MM, DMG.
What core rules should be banned to make things balanced and more interesting (Im thinking of druid, polymorph, gate, wish and such)

What Tiers are the most interesting in urban environment?

Do you have any good campaigns or modules or books you suggest for such play.

And by good i dont mean the Evil versus good crap. I like to keep everything in the game "grey". So it really comes down to players choices, not killing the villain and bad guy.

EDIT:
Im also thinking of dual DM idea, as urban campaign maybe too overwhelming to a single DM

Rixx
2009-09-07, 05:19 PM
If they're gonna be in a single city the entire time, it's a good idea to have the entire city mapped out beforehand.

quick_comment
2009-09-07, 05:23 PM
For a city campaign, get cityscape.

I would caution players against blasty classes, or classes with obviously threatening displays. Nobody knows a psion is dangerous until he shapes his astral construct. Everyone can see that the totemist, with fangs sticking out from god knows where is someone the guard needs to keep a close eye on.

rokar4life
2009-09-07, 05:31 PM
I would make all super blasty classes have a CN-CE requirement

deuxhero
2009-09-07, 05:47 PM
A nerf for blasters and alignment restrictions?

Does either really need to exist?

quick_comment
2009-09-07, 05:53 PM
A nerf for blasters and alignment restrictions?

Does either really need to exist?

For gameworld consistency, yes. People generally are unappreciative of fireballs in the town square. Dominate persons are a bit more subtle.

The Neoclassic
2009-09-07, 05:55 PM
DMG2 is useful for cities in my experience, and fleshes out the entire city of Saltmarsh with a lot of plot hooks and solid detail. If they characters are interested in trade or political power, I also have enjoyed "The Power of Faerun." It has good suggestions ever for non-Forgotten Realms games.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-07, 07:53 PM
I seem to remember a module that's a city. An entire book devoted to one city fleshing out NPCs, maps of everything, a large number of guilds, plothooks, and anything else you need. Someone on here can probably tell you more, but if we can figure out what it is, grab it. Even if you don't use it, it should be inspiring.

stenver
2009-09-08, 11:19 AM
@stoopidtalkid

Do you have any idea what that module was?

@Neoclassic

I will check out these books




Do you have any other suggestions, like what music should be in the background, what is the best way to make sure that when players split up, i dont spend too much time with none of them and leave others to boredom (except dual DM) . And how should buying be made. Is it preferable to let players tell me the items and i tell them the price, or is it more interesting to name every single item they find and role play it? Unless its a short sword or such obviously.

BRC
2009-09-08, 11:21 AM
If they're gonna be in a single city the entire time, it's a good idea to have the entire city mapped out beforehand.
I counter this by saying no. Mapping out an entire city is a LOT of work, and chances are 90% of it won't really matter. Map out city districts and major roads, but don't bother with every sidestreet and alley.

Typewriter
2009-09-08, 11:33 AM
The current campaign I'm running my players through is in a custom world that we've put together over the last few campaigns. I found what really helped a lot is being able to make the city, along with its history from the ground up, so I know everything about it.

The city is only around 90 years old but because of the discovery of some valuable mines nearby it grew quickly into a fairly large city. Knowing the history/why the city has a lot of the things it does helps me a lot.

Aside from that, the best thing I can say is to find ways to antagonize the characters in a way that would work in an urban environment.

They just killed a bard who was using the variant from 'Exemplars of Evil' that allowed her to make townspeople hate the party. Along the way to killing her they found out that she was part of a group who was interfering with the city, and now they plan on going after the group one at a time.

I've always had the same kind of problem you stated, where every time you try to do something urban it fails, or winds up wandering away from the city. I planned this campaign more extensively than any other I've ever played and that has helped a lot.

If you're interested I keep a campaign journal updated on a different site(I tried to post it here, but we only play once a week, so I couldn't really keep it within the first three pages without self-bumping). It's the bottom link in my signature.

Urban requires planning, planning, and more planning.


Another thing I did that got the players interested is that the campaign is kind of low magic/low money, so they have to have profession skills(or other skills that they can use to try and make a profit from) that they use to earn money. It really makes them want to do other things, such as one player joined the town guards and keeps finding ways to squeeze more money out of them because they're important to his current duties, and another player plans on opening his own stall in the market, and possibly taking leadership to run it.

Forbiddenwar
2009-09-08, 11:41 AM
I counter this by saying no. Mapping out an entire city is a LOT of work, and chances are 90% of it won't really matter. Map out city districts and major roads, but don't bother with every sidestreet and alley.

Agreed. Flexability is key.
Make a note of major players in the city, but don't stat them until you need them. Have a very strong idea of the size and politics of the city. Where is the power? How are decisions made? And do the citizens have an accurate interpretation of the political system? How are the inherent problems with cities resolved (food supply, commerce, clean water, refuse, Defense, police, fire, etc) Is it a port city? An example is my city of Kairn which is a port city that exports silver, iron and copper from nearby mountains all over the world. There is a port district and a manufactoring district dedicated to this commerce. This will shape the campaign much more than stating out every chracter, building and street.
I'm running a city campaign myself and made the mistake of build the theives guild fully. Why was this a mistake? There are no rogues in the party and none of the members were interested in the guil's mechanations, or plots.
I think cities lend themselves to sandbox play styles naturally, so keep that in mind.

Darcand
2009-09-08, 11:53 AM
A few things I've found most useful....

Make certain the players know it will be an entirely urban setting and give them any vital information before they start (i.e. the city watch will arrest anyone found carrying a weapon larger then a dagger, or the local mage guild takes none too kindly to outsiders hurling around fireballs.) Nothing is lamer then building a great character only to find out at game day that you can't carry that great sword around.

Create a rough map, but not too detailed. Show neighborhoods and main streets, but drawing in every side street and alley is a waste of time and too restricting. When mapping out a five square mile region of the countryside you include key features, and general terrain, not every single tree and hill. The city works the same way.

Start at low levels and work your way up.
A: the average commoner/ city watch is pretty low level and if you start the PCs too powerful you will have the dickens trying to moderate them ("You want my greatsword? Here!" CHOP!)
B: Most of their villians will have character levels, which in turn means lots and lots of loot. At lower level you can control this a little better by dumping it into consumables.

EDIT! I forgot to mention the single most important thing you can do for a city based campaign, and that is go out and pick up a copy of Gaurds! Gaurds! and all of the trailing Night Watch books by Terry Pratchett. Anhk-Morpork is the most detailed, active, and inspirational fantasy city ever made.

Draz74
2009-09-08, 11:57 AM
After Cityscape (and the Web (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) Enhancements (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a) thereof (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a)), I'd say Complete Scoundrel would be a particularly valuable splatbook for an urban campaign.

stenver
2009-09-08, 12:09 PM
Yea, i was thinking of low magic and cash. I think im going to but them in the middle of guilds or something similar territorial war. Also giving them homes and maybe even family, so they really have something to fight for wheather they are good or evil.

Making tier 1 characters very rare and really powerful and leaders of the guilds and stuff.

Flexibility is the key, got that. I believe i will map the general layout of the city but make very detailed history, commerce, trade, power structure and law of the city. I will certainly make extensive use of corruption, but i believe i need to keep this very flexible.

The city will certainly be a metropolis and have a dark tone to it and lots of poor people.

The guild probably fighting for power over the city and using many unlawful ways to accomplish this, while trying to prevent the wrath of the city leaders. This needs a lot more work.

EDIT:
low level is a must. Thank you for more books.

Rixx
2009-09-08, 02:06 PM
I counter this by saying no. Mapping out an entire city is a LOT of work, and chances are 90% of it won't really matter. Map out city districts and major roads, but don't bother with every sidestreet and alley.

I counter this by saying that that's what I meant.