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rezplz
2009-09-08, 01:19 AM
I'm not too familiar with the assassin, or death effects in general, but I was wondering if the assassin's death attack feature would be stopped by the death ward, and if someone killed by the death attack could be affected by raise dead?

Fitz
2009-09-08, 01:26 AM
yes you can be raised, reserected etc.
Death ward don't think so, but no books at the mo. So it might?
Fitz

SparkMandriller
2009-09-08, 01:27 AM
Not a death effect any more than a coup de grace is. Death ward isn't gonna help.

Xefas
2009-09-08, 01:31 AM
Death Ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm) specifically says "The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects."

Death Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm#deathAttack) is not a death spell, magical death effect, energy drain, or negative energy effect, so it would not be negated.

While there's nothing stopping a person who has died of Death Attack from being the subject of a Raise Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm) spell, the Raise Dead spell itself says "While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole."

So, if you don't want them being brought back specifically by Raise Dead, then decapitate their corpse. Mutilate and/or burn for good measure.

rezplz
2009-09-08, 01:37 AM
Okay, so the death attack isn't considered a death effect. Good to know.

Skorj
2009-09-08, 02:15 AM
I've always played that an assassin's death attack simply did a number of hit points of damage sufficient to kill the victim. But reading through the SRD, that isn't RAW, and wouldn't work mechanically for the paralysis attack.

I'm a bit stumped how to read this as written. Non-magical death effect, maybe? Much like non-magical save-or-die poison (except not poison)? That would be better mechanically for the paralyse, but is there clarification elsewhere?

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 02:21 AM
I've always played that an assassin's death attack simply did a number of hit points of damage sufficient to kill the victim. But reading through the SRD, that isn't RAW, and wouldn't work mechanically for the paralysis attack.

I'm a bit stumped how to read this as written. Non-magical death effect, maybe? Much like non-magical save-or-die poison (except not poison)? That would be better mechanically for the paralyse, but is there clarification elsewhere?

Assume that they aimed for the spine or other vital area (spine was just easiest to reference for paralyze).

Bayar
2009-09-08, 02:29 AM
The death attack is like sneak attack, only you have to stare at the target for 18 seconds before hitting him.

Khanderas
2009-09-08, 02:36 AM
Death attack to me is to study the target to get a feel to how he will dodge the incoming blow, planning the strike and make one very precise strike in an instakill place (throat, heart, brain, neck). The victim is then dead as in normal dead except with his throat slit or some other small, but deadly wound.

Skorj
2009-09-08, 02:51 AM
Assume that they aimed for the spine or other vital area (spine was just easiest to reference for paralyze).

Sure, but that's flavor text, not mechanics. I wonder whether there's any specific defense against this kind of attack (much like Death Ward for magical death effects), or if it's a unique mechanic that works differently from everything else in D&D, so all you can do is buff Fort saves. I've always played it as the latter, but now I'm curious.

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 02:52 AM
Sure, but that's flavor text, not mechanics. I wonder whether there's any specific defense against this kind of attack (much like Death Ward for magical death effects), or if it's a unique mechanic that works differently from everything else in D&D, so all you can do is buff Fort saves. I've always played it as the latter, but now I'm curious.
If you can null sneak attacks, you null the death attack. So think of it as just a fancy sneak attack with a coup de grace at the end.

Farlion
2009-09-08, 03:31 AM
I wonder whether there's any specific defense against this kind of attack

1) Uncanny Dodge and be no more than 3 levels lower than the assasin.

2) High Spot/Listen skills

3) be undead/construct/ooze

Cheers,
Farlion

sofawall
2009-09-08, 03:32 AM
The 4 Heart of Elemental spells.

Eldariel
2009-09-08, 11:07 AM
Heavy Fortifications Armor.

Harperfan7
2009-09-08, 11:31 AM
Heavy Fortifications Armor.

Unless he has a brilliant energy weapon.

Eldariel
2009-09-08, 11:49 AM
Unless he has a brilliant energy weapon.

Still doesn't matter. Being immune to criticals is an ability bestown by the armor and even if you can ignore the armor, the ability stops crits, by RAW. Though of course, it's reasonable to houserule otherwise.

Then again, as Fortifications are somehow a magical enhancement, them working even though the armor does not also sorta makes sense...

Myrmex
2009-09-08, 12:11 PM
Still doesn't matter. Being immune to criticals is an ability bestown by the armor and even if you can ignore the armor, the ability stops crits, by RAW. Though of course, it's reasonable to houserule otherwise.

Then again, as Fortifications are somehow a magical enhancement, them working even though the armor does not also sorta makes sense...

Only if you hate precision damage. :smallwink:

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 12:18 PM
Only if you hate precision damage. :smallwink:Man, who doesn't hate precision damage? In my campaigns there are no "Penetrating strike" ACFs, No weapon augment crystals of demolition/true death, no... :smallwink:

Person_Man
2009-09-08, 12:19 PM
If for some reason you're considering playing an Assassin, I highly suggest you mine the splat books for help. Assassins are a pretty weak PrC. But Death Attack and Assassin spells get a lot of love in the supplements, especially Drow of the Underdark and the Spell Compendium.

Crow
2009-09-08, 01:15 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone killed by an assassin's death attack could not be brought back by Raise Dead. Anybody have any idea where I may have read such a thing?

lsfreak
2009-09-08, 01:43 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone killed by an assassin's death attack could not be brought back by Raise Dead. Anybody have any idea where I may have read such a thing?

I don't believe such a statement exists for a death attack, but rather a [Death] effect. Someone killed by a [Death] effect cannot be Raised Dead, but can be Resurrected.

Cieyrin
2009-09-08, 10:18 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone killed by an assassin's death attack could not be brought back by Raise Dead. Anybody have any idea where I may have read such a thing?

The Pathfinder Assassin eventually gets an ability that makes it more difficult to Raise the slain creatures. True Death, it's fittingly called.

Kosjsjach
2009-09-08, 10:40 PM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone killed by an assassin's death attack could not be brought back by Raise Dead. Anybody have any idea where I may have read such a thing?

Something else you might be thinking of could be a weapon made out of thinaun (found in Complete Warrior): the soul of any creature slain while touching a thinaun melee weapon is trapped within, preventing any form of resurrection. This makes it popular for dealing with BBEGs.

...Or you could be referring specifically to raise dead, in which case the two posters before me got it right and I'm just venting hot air (or the virtual equivalent). :smallwink:

SparkMandriller
2009-09-09, 12:06 AM
Man, who doesn't hate precision damage? In my campaigns there are no "Penetrating strike" ACFs, No weapon augment crystals of demolition/true death, no... :smallwink:

Well in my campaigns we don't have rogues at all. VoP monks only.

Farlion
2009-09-09, 05:51 AM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone killed by an assassin's death attack could not be brought back by Raise Dead. Anybody have any idea where I may have read such a thing?


Black Flame Zealot can hinder resurrection after killing someone with deathattack, but I don't remember the exact name of the ability (death touch or something like that). Only true resurrection and wish can bring them back.

Cheers,
Farlion