V's raven is "invisible" only because......

[Lkctgo]

There are many theories why V's raven is invisible to everyone in the other but V. I have recorded down my thoughts on the matter and possible/plausible theories. Feel free to add more if you can think of them.

a) V has never spoken of her raven to them(except for comic effect), and the raven has never done anything useful. The characters have more important things to remember about in these dangerous times than a raven familiar that is rarely/never seen.

b) A wizard is not forced/compelled to have a familiar, the order may have thought that V dismissed the raven/ never had it before in the first place.

c) The raven has only appeared to be used for comic effect, in this sense, there has been no raven all along. The times when the raven appeared is only in the Order's times of comic need, it may just be a manifestation of the characters thinking of a way out. Unlike a case where V actually uses the raven.

d) Everyone must remember that the Order is supposedly being played by actual "humans", to define the term loosely, V's raven is only invisible to them only because they have not actually seen V record the raven as her familiar, being the uncaring master she was, slowly, they began thinking that V didn't have a familiar.

e) To the point above, maybe, and this is a big maybe, the characters always asked the person playing V's character to use his familiar, which he sarcastically replies that he has a raven, which is completely useless, now they just don't believe that the raven is even real anymore.

f) The Raven is a spy, A SPY I TELL YOU. See the forum thread for more details. [edited in]

Everyone keep talking about why the Order can't see or are pretending not to be able to see Blackwing, the reason is simply that they really do not believe in the raven, which V has usually never talked about, and now that V has finally recorded down in her character sheet a Raven as a familiar, they are gonna take some time to get used to it.

What do you guys/gals think?

[multilis]

I think it's more likely that V's raven is invisible as side effect of being Snarl's agent as brought out in the Elan is a spy thread. ;-)

[Lkctgo]

I think it's more likely that V's raven is invisible as side effect of being Snarl's agent as brought out in the Elan is a spy thread. ;-)

Having read the Raven spy thread just minutes before, I am forced to agree. ;)

[Somniloquist]

Or it could just be that Blackwing doesn't wear clothes.

[Jackson]

d) Everyone must remember that the Order is supposedly being played by actual "humans", to define the term loosely, V's raven is only invisible to them only because they have not actually seen V record the raven as her familiar, being the uncaring master she was, slowly, they began thinking that V didn't have a familiar.

e) To the point above, maybe, and this is a big maybe, the characters always asked the person playing V's character to use his familiar, which he sarcastically replies that he has a raven, which is completely useless, now they just don't believe that the raven is even real anymore.
The thing is, it's been confirmed by The Giant himself that there are no players, despite the fact that the main characters are explicitly PCs. This isn't a representation of an actual game of D&D, but rather a story that takes place in a world in which the rules of D&D are more important than the laws of physics. It's a common misconception, but it means that any explanation for something based on thinking of how the player for a given character thinks goes out the window.

It's either a simple joke based on how infrequently V makes reference to her familiar over the course of the comic, or it's something more. No way of knowing until we know.

[Nerdanel]

A crackpot theory follows, posted here for the off-chance that it might be true:

The Snarl doesn't really destroy souls. Instead it rips apart the threads of reality that connect people to each other and that happened to Blackwing too. The victims of Snarl are not dead but others cannot perceive their existence, even if they stand right in front of them. However the bond between a familiar and its master is even greater than that. Thus now only V in all the universe can know Blackwing is there.

[Thanatosia]

How do I put stuff in those little Spoiler Boxes?

Anyhow, I realy like the above theory - but it seems invalidated by the fact that Roy could see Blackwing, he just dismissed it as an illusion crafted by V.

[Trobby]

How do I put stuff in those little Spoiler Boxes?

Anyhow, I realy like the above theory - but it seems invalidated by the fact that Roy could see Blackwing, he just dismissed it as an illusion crafted by V.

It took me forever to figure that one out. Just use a box tag with the word "spoiler" inside. Make sure it's all lowercase, and don't forget to close the tag. It should look like this:

Snape Kills Trinity with Rosebud

For my own theory, I direct you to this thread *which, for some reason, doesn't appear to be showing up*

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6886901#post6886901

But in short, my theory is that the Snarl is, in fact, tearing apart at reality, actively, and mostly at random. And not just the reality of OotS, but all realities to which it is connected. It just so happens that by staring into the rift, Blackwing has lost a bit of his reality, and now, only V can still recognize him as a "real" creature. (You'll notice that the entire OotS, outside of V, are going out of their way to deny Blackwing's existence. Thus, there is probably some supernatural force preventing them from acknowledging that he ever was there in the first place.)

[NerfTW]

It's NOT invisible. They clearly see it in the strip, they just think it's an illusion.

Only Belkar says he can't see it, and it's a joke about his poor spot checks. Roy and Elan both see it.

[Trobby]

It's NOT invisible. They clearly see it in the strip, they just think it's an illusion.

Only Belkar says he can't see it, and it's a joke about his poor spot checks. Roy and Elan both see it.

Y'know, the fact that the character with the lowest Wisdom score in the party can't even see it while characters with a higher wisdom can at least see that it is, in fact, a bird on his shoulder (or an illusion) lends some credence to the idea that there may be some supernatural force at work.

[Kobold-Bard]

Maybe Blackwing's actually a Pixie that got Polymorphed into a Raven, hence it has Improved Invisibility At-Will :smalltongue:

[Harr]

I still think it's nothing more than a D&D joke. When playing a game of D&D nobody EVER cares or thinks about the familiars until they are useful somehow, then after that they're quickly forgotten again.

Regardless of whether there are literal "players" in OOTS or not, this is an almost (almost!) universal trait of PC behavior in games the world over, and OOTS is parodying it, as it has every right to do.

I'd be really shocked if it turned out to be anything more than that, but hey, it *has* happened with other seemingly jokey stuff, so we'll see I guess.

[Trobby]

I still think it's nothing more than a D&D joke. When playing a game of D&D nobody EVER cares or thinks about the familiars until they are useful somehow, then after that they're quickly forgotten again.

Regardless of whether there are literal "players" in OOTS or not, this is an almost (almost!) universal trait of PC behavior in games the world over, and OOTS is parodying it, as it has every right to do.

I'd be really shocked if it turned out to be anything more than that, but hey, it *has* happened with other seemingly jokey stuff, so we'll see I guess.

It doesn't have to be, but I wouldn't count it out. Remember, this is the same man who threw out a Young Adult Black Dragon with an enormous treasure trove, a trove much, much larger than a Young Adult Black Dragon should be able to acquire, as a hint that his mother, sometime after strip #600, would come back to get revenge for her mercilessly slaughtered offspring. Not to mention "When the goat turns, Red strikes true."

Rich LOVES to spring things like this on us.

[Optimystik]

What do you guys/gals think?

Assuming the Order is being serious and their sense are not being affected in some way, a combination of (a), (b) and (c) is the most likely. (i.e. the bird has been so ineffective and comical when the Order was around to witness it that they didn't consider its presence noteworthy.)

(d) and (e) are incorrect: The Order have no "players," because they're not actually in a D&D game; just a universe whose laws mimic the rules of one.

[veti]

Well, (a), (b) and (c) simply aren't true. Haley remembered the raven before V did. They used him to scout the bandit camp (at Haley's suggestion), Durkon healed him when he was shot full of arrows, they've seen him half a dozen times since then - he asked his own question of the Oracle, and nobody said then "Where did that improbably wealthy bird come from?"

(d) and (e) apparently aren't true either - according to other replies at least, I don't know what they're referring to but I'll take their word.

Which leaves:

(f) A SPY I TELL YOU! - although this might be more temperately expressed as "... has undergone some sort of change in the nature of its reality, almost certainly as a result of going so close to the rift"

There's also the mystifyingly popular theory:

(g) The whole of strip 674 is a joke. I don't buy this, because it's an pretty feeble joke - worthy of one panel, maybe two if you really want to milk it, but a whole strip? - no way, the Giant is so much better than that.

[onasuma]

Blackwing is wearing no cloathing. Thus, invisable.

[Almaseti]

^ Which is precisely why so many of us think it's a hint of things to come.

[Zanaril]

^ Which is precisely why so many of us think it's a hint of things to come.

...I assume you're refering to the post above the one you're indicating.

Right? :smalleek:

[David Argall]

How do I put stuff in those little Spoiler Boxes?

[ spoiler] text [ /spoiler] take out the spaces and you get a spoiler box.



Anyhow, I realy like the above theory - but it seems invalidated by the fact that Roy could see Blackwing, he just dismissed it as an illusion crafted by V.
The presumption is that there is a relationship between intelligence and ability to see Blackwing. V, being the master and the smartest, can recall all about the raven. Roy, being highly intelligent, at least for a fighter, can see the "illusion" right before him, but still forgets the past events. Belkar the idiot sees nothing at all. We have no clear evidence whether the others can or can not see Blackwing.
The entire idea makes little sense, but it has been used in other fantasy stories, so it may well be used here.
Presumably this is caused by exposure to the rift, but we are entirely too early to do much more than guess.

[liooil2000]

A crackpot theory follows, posted here for the off-chance that it might be true:

The Snarl doesn't really destroy souls. Instead it rips apart the threads of reality that connect people to each other and that happened to Blackwing too. The victims of Snarl are not dead but others cannot perceive their existence, even if they stand right in front of them. However the bond between a familiar and its master is even greater than that. Thus now only V in all the universe can know Blackwing is there.


Good point. Probably, if this is true, No one can find Xykon's phylactery!:smallamused:

[kwanzaabot]

When jokes need explanations, they stop being funny.

[The Extinguisher]

I don't buy this whole Snarl erases memories of people thing

The other gods seem to remember the Eastern Gods well enough.

And everyone talks about the Order of the Scribble, and they actually fought the thing. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

There's no real proof beyond the joke page, and the whole point was that Blackwing hasn't been around very often, and the Order only seems to remember him when it's convenient (or hilarious?) for them.

[rewinn]

Either:

The Order is pranking V, or
It's the Story Force again: in Stickverse mere historical consistency is a far weaker force than the power of a good joke

[Spiky]

I don't understand. Blackwing has been there the whole time. Can't you see him?

[Lkctgo]

Raven? What Raven? There is no raven here.

[DBJack]

When jokes need explanations, they stop being funny.

I disagree with this. I thought panel 5 of strip 486 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html) was something else entirely until someone explained it, and it's pretty funny to me now.

@ David: Elan can likely see it too because he makes an illusion similar to Blackwing.

[DrGonzo]

I disagree with this. I thought panel 5 of strip 486 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html) was something else entirely until someone explained it, and it's pretty funny to me now.

I don't get it..

[David Argall]

Either:

The Order is pranking V, or
It's the Story Force again: in Stickverse mere historical consistency is a far weaker force than the power of a good joke


It fits almost none of the requirements for the party to be pulling a prank on a member, and while it is a decent enough joke, it is nowhere near worth a full strip just as a joke. It works much better as foreshadowing.

[Mugen Nightgale]

Or it could just be that Blackwing doesn't wear clothes.

Congratulations, you won.

[Larspcus2]

I don't get it..

Read the battle between Redcloak and the High priest again

[Xorbon]

I still think it's nothing more than a D&D joke. When playing a game of D&D nobody EVER cares or thinks about the familiars until they are useful somehow, then after that they're quickly forgotten again.

Regardless of whether there are literal "players" in OOTS or not, this is an almost (almost!) universal trait of PC behavior in games the world over, and OOTS is parodying it, as it has every right to do.

I'd be really shocked if it turned out to be anything more than that, but hey, it *has* happened with other seemingly jokey stuff, so we'll see I guess.

This is the best theory IMO. In fact, I assumed most people thought the same. You worded it better than I could have though.

I would like to add that V was particularly self-absorbed, and that it was previously in his character to forget about such things that he saw as being trivial.

[bentheiii]

Or it could just be that Blackwing doesn't wear clothes.

lol!!!, i almost wet myself reading that.

and as for the actual thread, people- this is a stick comic based in an rpg where the mere mention of familiar either involes neat roleplaying or a complicated plan, the raven practically doesn't exist when it's not the main subject of a conversation, i mean come on- when was the last time you has feed, carry, or even take damage for your familiar in your game?

[veti]

i mean come on- when was the last time you has feed, carry, or even take damage for your familiar in your game?

Familiars are small animals that are quite capable of feeding and looking after themselves even before the intelligence and HD boost from being a familiar.

And sensible spellcasters, in my experience, leave their familiars at home when they go out adventuring. That's more in keeping with the background mythology of the "familiar" anyway.

[David Argall]

Sensible spellcasters do not go out adventuring.

[Linkavitch]

Good point. Probably, if this is true, No one can find Xykon's phylactery!:smallamused:

Which is a BAD thing. Xykon needs to find it to protect it, The good Guys need to find it to destroy it. Either way, it needs to be found.

[InfectiousFight]

How about...the Raven is channeling some of Vaarsuvius' powers, and is making himself invisible to the PCs and also modifying their memories? It seems the most likely solution to me. I dunno how familiars work, I've only got the 4e books and I didn't read the part for wizards anyway.