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Gamgee
2009-09-08, 04:48 PM
Okay well a little while back I had the cousin incident thread. This is going to relate to that, but in character and how the plot has developed.
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Star Wars Saga Edition IC:

Okay so here is the situation. My cousin is playing a Mandalorian and he in character took over Coruscant with a mild backstab to the party. Mild as in the only thing that they lost was that the Republic didn't get to take over after the battle. This battle occurred because the Republic was getting attacked by an immense Sith Fleet. The Mandalorians fought and have helped the Republic for 45 years. Even when they were hunted by the republic they wouldn't fight back. They kept the outer rim safe when the Republic wrote the sith invasion off as a mild uprising.

So the Mandalorians fought and saved the Republic and struck a blow to Coruscant. Seeing the republic as weak they exterminated the fools who let the galaxy degenerate to this point and took over operation of the Republic. They haven't done much as this was the most recent development. Although saving most of the galaxy is on their resume at this point.

My cousin took over the planets turbolasers and ordered them to fire on The Sith and republic. Not the Jedi Knight/Nobles fleet. It was a tie in quest for next session to figure out why the guns arent listening. It turns out to be an expert slicer aligned with the Sith is over riding the firing controls. One of the PC's was gone that session so I had him "holding off" the hacker enough not to fire on the Mandalorian ships.

Now my Jedi Knight/Zeltron Noble and my player who is playing the Jedi Master don't like this turn of events. They have been so foolish as to claim the Mandalorians are "Evil". They have sent me some cryptic messages they intend to restore the Republic. They plan to wipe out my cousin and every last Mandalorian in the fleet.
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Now what no one knows is that the Sith have an prototype of sorts to the Star Forge. In some ways it is superior to the Star Forge. It can produce more faster, but it has to devour worlds to do this. I intend for the Mandalorians to make one last charge against this horrendous device and get wiped out in the process of destroying it.

It is capable of producing ships superior to the eclipse in half dozens to put it adequately.

Now that the Sith fleet is almost destroyed I wanted a lightening strike on this device to take it out before it could build a bigger and far more powerful fleet capable of destroying everything.
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Before that could happen the stupid slapping incident happened. Then in a completely unrelated minor one shot game we will never see again My Cousin managed to break Friend B's lightsaber. He assumed a hidden holster auto conceals which it doesn't. I forgot to inform him of this, and I was having to much fun being a player for once. So my cousin finds it easily. Takes it with an NPC and breaks it. I try to tell the guy he should have read the rules. My cousin even said he would allow a concealment check now and he would roll to notice it. Due to the penalties it was found easily and still broken. Friend B goes off on a whining spree after game to me behind my cousins back.
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So now Friend A (Jedi Knight/Noble) and Friend B (Jedi Master) are planning vengeance on my cousin. They intend to destroy the Mandalorian fleet (only hope for the galaxy). Kill my cousin and all of the Mandalorians for being "evil". Friend B is claiming he is doing it "in character", but in his rant he let it slip he was doing it to get back at his lightsaber being broken in a random one off game.
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Seeing as this is not fair. I buffed my cousin up to level 19 and told him to lower his stats around them until they made their move. When they do he is the BBEG. I also promoted him to Mandalore (loooooong overdue). He also fullfilled his destiny to champion the group (+2Cha, usefull since he has a few officer levels).
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So how stupid and idiotic does all of this sound? I fully intend to have the Sith wipe out the remaining party if they kill the mandalorians. I mean... who could stop them? The Republic has lost 95% of it's fleet. A few years ago the PC's went on a "scourge" across the galaxy destroying any and all mercenaries and pirate groups they could find. They even finished off the massive pirate/merc alliance fleet that came up. I mean there is no one left at this point. Even I couldn't Dues Ex my way out of that...

Lycan 01
2009-09-08, 04:59 PM
They wrote themselves into the corner. Let them rot in it... :smallamused:


Seriously. Do they not REALIZE that the Mandalorians are the only hope left for the galaxy? If they STILL want to wipe them out after realizing this, just because of in-game and out-of-game grudges, then they deserve to be crushed beneath the bootheels of the now-unstoppable Sith Legions...

Nice job making your cousin Mandalore, btw. Just make sure that when it is revealed, you make sure the other players don't think you're playing favorites or something... :smallannoyed:

Mando Knight
2009-09-08, 04:59 PM
A few years ago the PC's went on a "scourge" across the galaxy destroying any and all mercenaries and pirate groups they could find. They even finished off the massive pirate/merc alliance fleet that came up. I mean there is no one left at this point. Even I couldn't Dues Ex my way out of that...

Because wiping out all the guns-for-hire (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Han_Solo) in the galaxy has historically been a good idea for the heroes (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker) in Star Wars games. :smallamused:

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 05:08 PM
I had to tell friend C all of this. His reply "spit out coffee... "oh ****..."" This is coming from someone who wasn't fazed when his IC son turned to the Sith and killed his wife. Also Friend C is a Field Marshal of the Mandalorians. A loyal one at that. So Mandalore will have some backup in the end. Although I think the two well build Vapaad Jedi of doom will kill them...

I also realize that this Ratakan weapon if used long enough could suck the force out of the galaxy! It would literally either be a dead galaxy or one without the force. Which is pretty bad since its said to be the life force of the galaxy and this thing rampantly consumes it. So it may have long term devastating consequences.

All I could do to My cousin and Friend C was show them this and tell them to stand strong in the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao1HQAPRSwo

shadzar
2009-09-08, 05:19 PM
Well you are giving you cousin in game bonuses for no reason and it seems like favoritism to me. PvP should not involve the GM in any manner but as referee.

Maybe previous thoughts of your cousin ruining the game for others, weren't unfounded?

Why would a one-off, unrelated continue to have any effect in the current game in which friend B still has lost his lightsaber? They should have nothing to do with each other.


I am really not seeing a good gaming group with this collection of people. It just doesn't seem to work for one reason or another.

:smallfrown:

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 05:42 PM
Well you are giving you cousin in game bonuses for no reason and it seems like favoritism to me. PvP should not involve the GM in any manner but as referee.

Maybe previous thoughts of your cousin ruining the game for others, weren't unfounded?

Why would a one-off, unrelated continue to have any effect in the current game in which friend B still has lost his lightsaber? They should have nothing to do with each other.


I am really not seeing a good gaming group with this collection of people. It just doesn't seem to work for one reason or another.

:smallfrown:
I gave him a destiny bonus. If your not familiar with the game its an actual mechanic one can use. This actually puts him on par with them as they have 2 each.

1 guy has like 26 charisma and the other has a UTF check of like +30... which is phenomenal as they are only level 17. One player is capable of scoring a critical hit (triple crit) each round. If he gets lucky he could hit up to 4 tripple crits a round I gave my cousin bonuses because he really doesn't stand a chance.

Average damage on the crit master per round is 67... he is comparable to a starship gun. Then he can deflect practically any and all attack with his deflect talent. You make a Use the Force check and if it equals the attack he deflects. with a +30 he will block practically any and every attack.

Then add Jedi Jr. in and my cousin stands no chance if he were of equal level. They have made it clear THEY WILL KILL HIM. So I'm turning my cousin into the BBEG who stands practically no chance. Ill admit that now with all the bonuses I gave I doubt he has a chance.

Also it doesn't relate at all! I have no idea why he is so mad at it. He is intent on destroying the campaign over a random one shot game where he lost his saber. He could easily just get a new one... it wasn't even a custom.

Also for the record after this loony toons group is done I have every intention of disbanding it and getting new players. Ill probably keep player C and my cousin because they have good synergy and haven't been petty revenge seeking people.

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 05:46 PM
While Friend B is unfounded, Friend A seems to have pretty good rationale here, excluding the incident with the actual hitting.

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 05:53 PM
While Friend B is unfounded, Friend A seems to have pretty good rationale here, excluding the incident with the actual hitting.

My cousin (now Mandalore) went out of his way to stop the hacker attacking friend A private fleet ships above Coruscant planet. He also doesn't have any intention of wiping the Jedi out. He sort of just wants to let em be. Not only that but he succeeded in saving his fleet...

That was also my cousins first time running a game and he is like 12. I think he did rather good remembering all the rules that friend B didn't. He simply just was being a DM. Now friend B is trying to murder his character in another game.

When they did blow up the Republic fleet they didn't shoot the escape pods. Not only that but during the battle when the Sith were attacking my cousin went out of his way to help people out of the ships. He just wants to be in control, not some blood thirsty kitten slaughtering dictator. He also just wants to run the Republic better without so much corruption.

Really I think the two Jedi players have fallen into Paladin syndrome. They are trying to hard to live up to the code and not do good. Granted my cousin still DID blow up the remaining fleet, but it was for a good cause.

Just throwing this out there. Meanwhile Mr Jedi Jr said he would send his ships in to help in the battle if he got paid by being given a portion of the Republic fleet and a vast tract of space.

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 06:08 PM
When they did blow up the Republic fleet they didn't shoot the escape pods. Not only that but during the battle when the Sith were attacking my cousin went out of his way to help people out of the ships. He just wants to be in control, not some blood thirsty kitten slaughtering dictator. He also just wants to run the Republic better without so much corruption.

Really I think the two Jedi players have fallen into Paladin syndrome. They are trying to hard to live up to the code and not do good. Granted my cousin still DID blow up the remaining fleet, but it was for a good cause.


While I don't know the exact circumstances on which your cousin's char was working with the Jedi, look at it from their perspective.

You have an ally who is ostensibly helping you to accomplish a goal (recover Coruscant for the Republic). Instead, after having you help him do most of the dirty work, he instead claims control for his group. Not only that, his group now declares that your government is weak, destroys your head of government and the republic fleet and have usurped control of the Republic you are supposed to be protecting.


Can you see why they might be a bit perturbed and call them evil?

Sure from the GM perspective they might be missing the greater evil (sith) for the "evil" in front of them, but it's not unfounded to call them "evil", from the Jedi perspective.

Mathius
2009-09-08, 06:11 PM
I think what you are doing is perfect. If the players intend on killing your cousin for a bull**** reason, then take them out. If they want to screw the campaign, let them. Have a reserve Mandalorian Fleet that was hiding out past the rim waiting for the right time to strike (triple the strength of the current in-game fleet) swoop in at the last moment to bolster the defenses and take the players out.


"FOR MANDALORE!!"

Edit: If you feel that the Jedi are planning to assassinate someone without just cause (and using a BS out of game reason) I suggest unleashing the Force Rot rules.

Lycan 01
2009-09-08, 06:31 PM
So who's side is Player C on? :smallconfused:

Hm... a +30 Use the Force check you say? As in... any Force Power he uses will automatically succeed, barring a 1, which can be rerolled with a Destiny Point under dire circumstances, such as a duel to the death with the BBEG? So... all they have to do is roll a 2 or highter on a Force Grip power use, and Mandalore is stuck floating in the air only able to take free actions? Which leaves his utterly defenceless against guys who's attacks are equal to a turbolaser hit? Boy, that seems fair... :smallannoyed:

Yeah, you can see why I quite playing Star Wars Saga Edition a LONG time ago... :smalltongue:


Soooo... After they kill Mandalore, what do they intend to do? Take on the rest of the fleet? Them and what army? And lets not forget the Sith menace... Heck, why not let them fight it out for awhile, and at the last second have the Sith Fleet hyperspace jump right up in there? Remind them who the enemy is! Have some random Super-BBEG waltz up into the fray and mock them for fighting amongst themselves rather than against him... Then DM Fiat him killin' 'em all with a Force Thunderstorm or something.

Nah, now I'm just being bloodthirsty... :smallbiggrin:

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 07:35 PM
While I don't know the exact circumstances on which your cousin's char was working with the Jedi, look at it from their perspective.

You have an ally who is ostensibly helping you to accomplish a goal (recover Coruscant for the Republic). Instead, after having you help him do most of the dirty work, he instead claims control for his group. Not only that, his group now declares that your government is weak, destroys your head of government and the republic fleet and have usurped control of the Republic you are supposed to be protecting.


Can you see why they might be a bit perturbed and call them evil?

Sure from the GM perspective they might be missing the greater evil (sith) for the "evil" in front of them, but it's not unfounded to call them "evil", from the Jedi perspective.
That's true, but I feel in this case only good can be done by what the Mandalorians are doing. Greatest possible good for the greatest amount of people. The Jedi are being to stupid to realize this. I also told them the Sith are regrouping and the Mandalorians are going to chase them down.

Even a Jedi can see that sometimes it is beneficial to wait. I wouldn't be siding with my cousin and friend C so heavily if the Jedi were just not being so stupid about it. I wouldn't mind if they say vanquished the real threat before trying to restore the Republic. Sort of a just wait and deal with him later, but doing it now and out of petty revenge they will most assuredly wipe the galaxy out.

Basically they are reaping their reward. Also thankfully the idiots didn't take force grip so that's out of the scene. As a matter of fact in a rather befitting way both their characters are more high int and low wisdom characters. So they have few force powers. Vapaad dude has pretty much only saber form powers (force powers that need a lightsaber). The other one doesn't have anywhere near high enough a check. My cousin has a 41 Fort save thankfully, one of the few benefits of focusing on being a tank.

Edit
Player C is fully on the side of Mandalore and is an expert mechanic/use computer guy. I also have a reserve squad of super commandos I could call in if need be to end the threat. Although Mandalorian honour dictates a fair fight. Knowing my cousin he will give this to them. A 2 on 2 fight.

Edit2
Also I do have a real super BBEG. He is capable of force choking multiple people. Splintered apart if they take him on he could kill them in small groups. If they stayed together he couldn't have gripped all of them. So my Super BBEG will most likely win no matter what faction comes out on top. Game over... depressing seeing your game shatter around you eh? :P

shadzar
2009-09-08, 07:37 PM
:smallconfused: If you are the DM, what you see best to happen doesn't matter about what will happen under player control unless you railroad then into Mandy's taking over.

The best laid plans of the GM...are quickly ruined by letting players get involved. :smallfurious:

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 07:43 PM
:smallconfused: If you are the DM, what you see best to happen doesn't matter about what will happen under player control unless you railroad then into Mandy's taking over.

The best laid plans of the GM...are quickly ruined by letting players get involved. :smallfurious:

Here's the brilliant part. I didn't plan any of this. I also always have contingencies. I know nothing is set in stone with a player. Think I'm a newbie or something? :P

Half the campaign was me winging it. :P Also I never intended for Mandalorians to take over. This is probably still a few sessions away from "the end". The Mandalorians would have to sacrifice themselves to save the entire galaxy. Obviously not ever one is there, but the majority of the Mandalorian people are up in the fleets. So when it goes the Republic would be back on top even with its measly little fleet. Well this is a rough idea where I want it to go. This was going to happen in a few sessions, but now the Jedi will mess it up.

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 07:44 PM
No matter what you personally feel is the best move, trying to force players to your viewpoint is railroading, which should be touch and go at best.

Heck, if you see that this whole thing is a revenge oriented vendetta, why not have the sith BBEG try to turn them?

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 07:47 PM
No matter what you personally feel is the best move, trying to force players to your viewpoint is railroading, which should be touch and go at best.

Heck, if you see that this whole thing is a revenge oriented vendetta, why not have the sith BBEG try to turn them?

Except I'm not forcing them! If they kill the Mandalorians and screw everyone over the game is done! If I was forcing my view on them I could have rail roaded their asses to hell if I wanted. :P

The Sith BBEG JUST fled like in character like an hour ago. He wouldn't arrive at his destination let alone rally another fleet to attack.

I'm playing in the rules here, and I'm trying to save the universe. If the Jedi players end up getting it taken over by the Sith then they failed. What do you want me to do? Railroad em a victory?

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 07:54 PM
Except I'm not forcing them! If they kill the Mandalorians and screw everyone over the game is done! If I was forcing my view on them I could have rail roaded their asses to hell if I wanted. :P

The Sith BBEG JUST fled like in character like an hour ago. He wouldn't arrive at his destination let alone rally another fleet to attack.

I'm playing in the rules here, and I'm trying to save the universe. If the Jedi players end up getting it taken over by the Sith then they failed. What do you want me to do? Railroad em a victory?Well my stance is mostly this.

You seem to be getting up in arms about the short-sightedness of the Jedi players, however, they don't have the luxury of seeing the big picture. They don't know about the secret Sith superweapon. As far as they're concerned, they could have two equally difficult opponents to take down, one that has just backstabbed them, and one that has always been a thorn in their sides. They don't know that you plan on having all the Mandalorians sacrifice themselves to accomplish this goal.

My whole point is that from the PoV of Player A, this is all remotely explainable! Player B is just holding grudges.

Gamgee
2009-09-08, 08:02 PM
Well my stance is mostly this.

You seem to be getting up in arms about the short-sightedness of the Jedi players, however, they don't have the luxury of seeing the big picture. They don't know about the secret Sith superweapon. As far as they're concerned, they could have two equally difficult opponents to take down, one that has just backstabbed them, and one that has always been a thorn in their sides. They don't know that you plan on having all the Mandalorians sacrifice themselves to accomplish this goal.

My whole point is that from the PoV of Player A, this is all remotely explainable! Player B is just holding grudges.
Okay Ill concede on player A for now because your right he doesn't know. When he get's brought up to speed and if he still kills the Mandalorians would you agree he is being a tard? :P Then again if he doesn't go through with it then Ill be a much calmer and happier person that things didn't go to hell. Although I think Player B will try to attack regardless of weather A helps him or not. Although I`m pretty sure AB are aware they far outclass CC (Cousin, Friend C). Even I the DM agree they outclass them. Matter of fact friend C was voted worse combat player in the group to which he agreed. :P

On the other hand my cousin is voted as the best. So it cancels out into a neutral. B has been consistently good and can almost tie my cousin in terms of raw combat power and if he gets lucky faaaaaaar surpassing him. Friend A is also quite capable and is faaaar better than C. I would go so far to say C is a hindrance in combat rather than a boon. Great for everything else, but just not combat. :P

Kylarra
2009-09-08, 08:39 PM
When he get's brought up to speed and if he still kills the Mandalorians would you agree he is being a tard? :P
It depends on his motivation.