Haley's secret

[Larocs Macalar]

I wanna know what happened to haley's father, because i dont remember of another meaning of it...
On http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html she appears reading a message and it is the last thing i know about it... any help?:smallconfused:

[Xesirin]

By reading Origin of the PC's, and by inferring from the more recent arc in Greysky City, we suspect at the least that he's being held captive by a guy named 'Lord Tyrinar' whom has thus far been suspected to be Elan/Nale's Father.

[shadzar]

I want to know what happened to her mother. :smallconfused:


Lovers quarrel.

Hailey's father and Elan's father were fighting over the same woman and that make her the mother of them both. :smalleek: OOTS-cest!

[Belkster11]

I want to know what happened to her mother. :smallconfused:


Lovers quarrel.

Hailey's father and Elan's father were fighting over the same woman and that make her the mother of them both. :smalleek: OOTS-cest!

I think Haley's mom left her.

And no, Rich wouldn't spend all that time carefully constructing the romance between Elan and Haley only to have it all crash around when oopsie! They're actually brother and sister!

[shadzar]

Why not? One of the things about RPGs, is you never know who you might run into that you are related to.

:elan: Dun-dun-dun!

[Bibliomancer]

I think Haley's mom left her.

And no, Rich wouldn't spend all that time carefully constructing the romance between Elan and Haley only to have it all crash around when oopsie! They're actually brother and sister!

Why not? It's what the Children of Hurin did, and this comic has been suffering from Cerebus syndrome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CerebusSyndrome) for over 400 comics. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html) It is hard to see how Elan could have a happy ending after that, though.

[shadzar]

Because he not only has a twin brother, but he has an older sister too! ~squee!~

[Bibliomancer]

Because he not only has a twin brother, but he has an older sister too! ~squee!~

How do we know that Haley is older than Elan? Is her age stated anywhere?

[shadzar]

We know Hailey was nearly grown before her father went away and she never once had met Elan (that we know of) prior to joining OOTS.

So her father could have been doing any number of things during that time, including shacking up with Elan's mom, getting Big T mad at him to incarcerate him and take off with Nale and leave the dumb one behind with his slut mother. :smallsmile:

See how well it explains not only the initial disappearance of Hailey's dad, but Hailey's secret that even she doesn't know about!

[Katana_Geldar]

Seriously, you guys have been watching too much Star Wars.

But has Haley told Elan about her father yet?

Oh, and Elan is 21 but Haley is 24. I only can get Elan's age from the character page in the books.

[shadzar]

Seriously, you guys have been watching too much Star Wars.

But has Haley told Elan about her father yet?

The only alone time they had she couldn't speak...mostly; or she was polishing the family jewels, and he was stroking his banjo. (No I don't mean anything perverted by that!)...and they had sex.

Not really any time during the last one you would want to talk about your father during. :smallyuk:

[Sanguine]

I think this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) indicates she told him.

[dps]

Why not? It's what the Children of Hurin did, and this comic has been suffering from Cerebus syndrome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CerebusSyndrome) for over 400 comics. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html) It is hard to see how Elan could have a happy ending after that, though.


Well, he and Haley are both chaotic. Maybe that don't care about society's taboo against incest. :smallbiggrin:

[shadzar]

Well, he and Haley are both chaotic. Maybe that don't care about society's taboo against incest. :smallbiggrin:

Better than Nale and Elan....Twincest! :smalleek:

[The Odor]

What the f;;k is twincest

[Delorges]

What the f;;k is twincest

Well...
Just what it sounds like.
Twincest (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwinCest)

[daggaz]

I think Haley's mom left her.

And no, Rich wouldn't spend all that time carefully constructing the romance between Elan and Haley only to have it all crash around when oopsie! They're actually brother and sister!

Heh, theres a messed up webcomic (i cant remember the name for the life of me :smallfrown:) with the nastiest yet most hillarious joke playing on that whole luke + leia thing...

[theinsulabot]

hell ethan and haley, as chaotic as they are, would probably just ignore it if they turned out to be related anyways

[Cleverdan22]

hell ethan and haley, as chaotic as they are, would probably just ignore it if they turned out to be related anyways

No, I don't think chaotic works like that. In most cases. Ew. This isn't Das Rhinegold.

[Finn Solomon]

Heh, theres a messed up webcomic (i cant remember the name for the life of me :smallfrown:) with the nastiest yet most hillarious joke playing on that whole luke + leia thing...

Sexy Losers. :smallamused:

[Berserk Monk]

I think Haley's mom left her.

And no, Rich wouldn't spend all that time carefully constructing the romance between Elan and Haley only to have it all crash around when oopsie! They're actually brother and sister!

Two words: Luke and Leia

[FabuVinny]

When did Haley's father have time to become a warlord? We know he was still in Greysky City when Elan and Nale were 13 yet their father was active as a warlord when Nale was a baby. That would also imply he is pulling a serious con on his daughter which, while not outside the realm of possibility, seems rather cruel considering how hard she's taken it.
I think Haley's mom left her.War and XPs commentary says that she's dead.

[Tass]

We can infer Nales (and thereby Elans) age from this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html)

[Lkctgo]

By reading Origin of the PC's, and by inferring from the more recent arc in Greysky City, we suspect at the least that he's being held captive by a guy named 'Lord Tyrinar' whom has thus far been suspected to be Elan/Nale's Father.

Yup. It fits the profile of Elan's father, and the dramatic plotline that must always come when two people are in love. Can you imagine love that just involved dates and no drama? Pshh, that isn't love at all. ;)

[Kish]

I don't get why people have such trouble with the idea that facts introduced a while ago don't need to be addressed directly to still be there (I've seen "did Rich forget about this?" and, "It's been so long, the Giant obviously decided to drop the plot thread"). The information in the letter is as current as any of us have, including Haley.

[Larocs Macalar]

u know what? i think they'll pass in the city where is he or problably he is already where they are.:smalltongue:
:haley: may have said to elan in #670 strip, but i think it'll have something about him later. what do u think about this?

look, they may pass in the city where he is or, by random encounter, find him. but i wanna at last know who is he...

[Froogleyboy]

The brother and sister thing was funny, but since you mentioned it, It won't happen

[Herald Alberich]

Two words: Luke and Leia

They kissed ONCE, and only because Leia wanted to spite Han. That's not a relationship like Elan and Haley have. Now that Therkla's dead, neither of them have another love interest to play Han's role in that plotline either.

[shadzar]

The brother and sister thing was funny, but since you mentioned it, It won't happen

And that may have been the plan all along!

:smallbiggrin: MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[theinsulabot]

They kissed ONCE, and only because Leia wanted to spite Han. That's not a relationship like Elan and Haley have. Now that Therkla's dead, neither of them have another love interest to play Han's role in that plotline either.

twice actually, during Leia's rescue when luke is about to swing them to the otherside of that chasm, Leia gives him a peck on the lips and says "for luck"

[nybbler]

Why not? It's what the Children of Hurin did, and this comic has been suffering from Cerebus syndrome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CerebusSyndrome) for over 400 comics. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html) It is hard to see how Elan could have a happy ending after that, though.

No incest taboo, or an incest taboo which doesn't extend to half-siblings raised apart.

[Herald Alberich]

twice actually, during Leia's rescue when luke is about to swing them to the otherside of that chasm, Leia gives him a peck on the lips and says "for luck"

I'll need to see it again, but I could swear it was on the cheek. Anyway, that barely counts.

Edit: Watched it last night; I was right. She gives him another cheek peck for comfort later. Still not a relationship.


u know what? i think they'll pass in the city where is he or problably he is already where they are.:smalltongue:
:haley: may have said to elan in #670 strip, but i think it'll have something about him later. what do u think about this?

look, they may pass in the city where he is or, by random encounter, find him. but i wanna at last know who is he...

For Haley's father to be in Sandsedge, Sandsedge (a tiny if important trading post made of tents on the edge of a giant desert) would have to be the capital, or a major city at least, of the despotic land of Tyrinaria. That would be ridiculous, and there are no signs that it is the case.

Patience. We know he's on the Western Continent, so odds are good the plot thread will be picked up again before too long. But not here at the edge of the desert, or in the middle of the desert either.

[Larocs Macalar]

ok thanx! :smile:

[Armond]

I want to know how Haley and Elan can be siblings if...
Haley is an Erinyes. (Well, I suppose she could be half-field, but that's not quite as likely imo.

I come to this theory by looking at the Linear Guild. Thog, Elan, Hilgya, and the rest all share several obvious "similar but different" aspects with their counterparts - leader vs follower, intelligent vs super-low mental stats, loyal to tradition vs completely disregarding tradition, barbarian vs fighter, so on and so forth.

But what aspects do Haley and Sabine share? I don't recall Sabine exhibiting any rogueish class features, and a quick wikipedia check confirmed this. "Mortal vs fiend" is too much of a stretch as compared to the others. "Great in bed vs almost completely inexperienced plus super shy to the point of the relationship never starting" gets the same.

"Erinyes vs Succubus" is far more likely to fill that spot. For a while I couldn't figure out which would be which - neither get Plane Shift ever, much less once per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html), and the silver/cold iron thing didn't help either. However, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html) strip gave a good view of her wings, and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) one names a succubus that has been watching the order. It's also fairly obvious that Sabine is Chaotic - there's probably a couple hundred strips of proof for that. (I didn't want to base a decision off of her energy drain powers because I figured that if Rich were willing to houserule in a 1/day Plane Shift for the sake of [at the time] a reasonably minor side of the plot, he'd probably be willing to houserule in an energy-draining Erinyes for the sake of confusing the people picking up the hints.)

Wikipedia also mentioned that "Rich Burlew has stated that there is another, as yet unrevealed way in which the two could be considered opposites", but as they didn't cite it, I'm ignoring it. Can anyone cite that?

[Herald Alberich]

I want to know how Haley and Elan can be siblings if...
Haley is an Erinyes. (Well, I suppose she could be half-field, but that's not quite as likely imo.

I come to this theory by looking at the Linear Guild. Thog, Elan, Hilgya, and the rest all share several obvious "similar but different" aspects with their counterparts - leader vs follower, intelligent vs super-low mental stats, loyal to tradition vs completely disregarding tradition, barbarian vs fighter, so on and so forth.

But what aspects do Haley and Sabine share? I don't recall Sabine exhibiting any rogueish class features, and a quick wikipedia check confirmed this. "Mortal vs fiend" is too much of a stretch as compared to the others. "Great in bed vs almost completely inexperienced plus super shy to the point of the relationship never starting" gets the same.

"Erinyes vs Succubus" is far more likely to fill that spot. For a while I couldn't figure out which would be which - neither get Plane Shift ever, much less once per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html), and the silver/cold iron thing didn't help either. However, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html) strip gave a good view of her wings, and this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) one names a succubus that has been watching the order. It's also fairly obvious that Sabine is Chaotic - there's probably a couple hundred strips of proof for that. (I didn't want to base a decision off of her energy drain powers because I figured that if Rich were willing to houserule in a 1/day Plane Shift for the sake of [at the time] a reasonably minor side of the plot, he'd probably be willing to houserule in an energy-draining Erinyes for the sake of confusing the people picking up the hints.)

Wikipedia also mentioned that "Rich Burlew has stated that there is another, as yet unrevealed way in which the two could be considered opposites", but as they didn't cite it, I'm ignoring it. Can anyone cite that?

I was wondering about that quote from Rich too. I think a half-fiend (a tiefling, rather) might be the case, but not a full fiend. Unlike that uproar over the black dragons, where "always Chaotic Evil" leaves open the possibility for a few to not be Chaotic Evil, erinyes are always Lawful Evil; they are made of pure Law and Evil in the same way the Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html) is pure Law and Good. Haley is, by word and deed, Chaotic Good-ish, the opposite alignment.

I could easily see her being a half-fiend, or a half-celestial for that matter. We've seen her human father in (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html) flashbacks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html), but all we know about her mother is that her name is Mia (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html), and that "she left", because Haley "wasn't good enough" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html). I'd lean toward half-celestial due to that quote, which would fulfill the "opposite" theme as much as an erinyes would, and also makes more sense.

Edit: In fact, she also classes her mother as "good and pure" in that strip, which pretty much rules out fiends for me, and makes a celestial much more likely. That's my theory going forward.

Edit again: Oh, and I definitely don't think Haley and Elan are related. Based on what we know about their parents, the pieces don't line up at all.

[Lissou]

I don't think Elan and Haley are related.

If the theory is true though, they're only half-siblings and were raised apart. That's less related than many couples of the middle ages, and might not be a taboo in ootsverse. (Although ootsverse is FAR different from the middle ages).

But as I said, I don't really buy that theory. Elan is only 3 years younger, her mother would have left while Haley was 2 or less (accounting for meeting the other guy and pregnancy). It sounds very far-fetched to me.

And really, they have enough plot revolving around them that they don't need that extra one, in my opinion.

But I do think there is something about Haley's mother (although I don't think that's it). We've never seen her and something seems to have happened between her and Haley.

[Armond]

I was wondering about that quote from Rich too. I think a half-fiend (a tiefling, rather) might be the case, but not a full fiend. Unlike that uproar over the black dragons, where "always Chaotic Evil" leaves open the possibility for a few to not be Chaotic Evil, erinyes are always Lawful Evil; they are made of pure Law and Evil in the same way the Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html) is pure Law and Good. Haley is, by word and deed, Chaotic Good-ish, the opposite alignment.

I could easily see her being a half-fiend, or a half-celestial for that matter. We've seen her human father in (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html) flashbacks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html), but all we know about her mother is that her name is Mia (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html), and that "she left", because Haley "wasn't good enough" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html). I'd lean toward half-celestial due to that quote, which would fulfill the "opposite" theme as much as an erinyes would, and also makes more sense.

Edit: In fact, she also classes her mother as "good and pure" in that strip, which pretty much rules out fiends for me, and makes a celestial much more likely. That's my theory going forward.

Sorry for nitpicking, but
We only know that Pete recalled Haley's parents' names as Ian and Mia. Not that he needs aspirations cast upon his memory and/or sanity <insert "brainy Pete" joke here>, but their common names may not have been their birth names. As I recall, immortals tend to have significantly less pronounceable names than "Mia"... though if Haley's mom turns out to be an epic swordmaster wielding a pure white blade blessed by two halves of one goddess, I won't complain much.

Also, I'm not going to set much store by the "not good enough" comment. Haley said that in a fit of depression induced by her self-loathing, which - to me at least - automatically puts self-depreciating comments in doubt. The "good and pure" comment, though, I'll believe (at least to a point); that is indeed (moderately) solid support for the half-celestial theory. Regardless, it's a knock against the half-fiend theory, as even in a huge depression I don't think anyone could call a fiend "good and pure" and her father certainly didn't look fiendish (though he could be a shapeshifted succubi, zomg).

I have to admit, as Haley's probably my favorite character in the strip, I'm glad to hear evidence against the fiend/half-fiend theory.

[Herald Alberich]

You have a point. Haley's perceptions on why her mother left may not be the truth. Real-life children of divorcees have a tendency to blame themselves and get depressed about it. I shouldn't have used absolute language like "know" there. Still, Haley believes that her Chaotic Good-ish nature isn't good enough for her mother, Rachel, and Kyran, whoever they are, and that they are very good. A being of Pure Good casts a very long shadow to stand in, so she could be forgiven on that point.

Also of note is that she believed Elan to be even better, and that she was not good enough for him either, but she's had a lot of character development since then. She did bare her soul to him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), and he didn't even get angry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html), much less break up with her.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if "Mia" was a nickname or just the easiest-to-pronounce portion of her full name.

Edit: This does leave the question of why it would be Haley's most closely-guarded secret, the one not even V knows, the one she got cut off before saying at the end of #309 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html). One would thing being a half-celestial (what's the word for that race? I forget) might be something to be proud of, not ashamed. But we come back to her not feeling "good enough". If she doesn't think she lives up to the Goodness of her heritage, that would be reason for Haley, who is inclined to keep secrets anyway, to keep that one above all others.

[Armond]

Well...
She was in the Thieves' Guild for a while. I don't know if they'd appreciate knowing there was a half-celestial or Aasimar among their ranks, though the common people would have fawned over her if they knew (and probably if she hadn't been a thief). By the time she met with Roy and the others, she could easily have been used to hiding her heritage for its own sake.

The term is "half-celestial human", by the way, base race modified to taste.

I'm not sure which is more likely, though, between the two. Because we've never seen Mia, I'm leaning towards half-celestial; on the other hand, if she simply had a celestial (or fiendish) ancestor somewhere up the tree, it'd be a lot less obvious and thus easier to hide.

The frustrating part is that Sabine, being an Outsider (and one with not insignificant contacts), probably knows everything already.

[Kish]

But what aspects do Haley and Sabine share? I don't recall Sabine exhibiting any rogueish class features, and a quick wikipedia check confirmed this.

Confirms a negative? That doesn't work...

One of the compilation books calls Sabine a fiendish rogue of uncertain level.


"Mortal vs fiend" is too much of a stretch as compared to the others. "Great in bed vs almost completely inexperienced plus super shy to the point of the relationship never starting" gets the same.

But "open and confident about her relationship with Nale vs. finding it easier to develop aphasia than to admit she wants to be involved with Elan" fits a lot better.


It's also fairly obvious that Sabine is Chaotic - there's probably a couple hundred strips of proof for that.

Sigh.

All evidence of Sabine being Lawful or Chaotic hinges on particular individual interpretations of what it means to be "Lawful" or "Chaotic" and, in general, the things people cite as evidence of her being Chaotic have everything to do with Evil and nothing to do with Chaotic ("Look! She energy drained Durkon after claiming to be his ally! Extremely Chaotic, even though the plan for betrayal was created by Nale, who is Lawful Evil!") There are hundreds of strips of not-open-to-dispute evidence of her being Something Evil. Exactly 0 strips of not-open-to-dispute evidence of her being Chaotic.


(I didn't want to base a decision off of her energy drain powers because I figured that if Rich were willing to houserule in a 1/day Plane Shift for the sake of [at the time] a reasonably minor side of the plot, he'd probably be willing to houserule in an energy-draining Erinyes for the sake of confusing the people picking up the hints.)

Well that was a wise decision. (Also, being able to energy drain without a kiss or "act of passion" marks her as different from a by-the-book succubus.) Back when whether Sabine was a succubus or an erinyes was up for grabs, people argued whether Rich had added the Plane Shift out of whole cloth and modified the succubus' Energy Drain ability, or added the Energy Drain ability out of whole cloth and modified the erinyes' Teleport to a Plane Shift.

In the strip, recently, the IFCC confirmed that Sabine is "a succubus who works under Director Lee."


Wikipedia also mentioned that "Rich Burlew has stated that there is another, as yet unrevealed way in which the two could be considered opposites", but as they didn't cite it, I'm ignoring it. Can anyone cite that?[/spoiler]
Yes, he did say exactly that, way back in the Dungeon Crawling Fools compilation. It makes me twitch whenever someone cites it as "as yet unrevealed," as opposed to, "unrevealed at the time Dungeon Crawling Fools came out."

Beyond that, why would she be a fiend? Just because Sabine is? Aside from the fact that Haley herself clearly doesn't have damage reduction, I'd think she would have recognized Sabine's type and known which arrow to use if that were the case. All the descriptions of her call her human. I've seen theories that she's not actually human before, but they never make a lot of sense to me. I find the theories that she and Elan are related similarly unsupported, with a side of "I really don't think Rich is going to go there" squicktasticness.

[Armond]

Actually, in a finite dimension, you can prove a negative. "There is no red text in this post" is a negative that you can prove. Similarly, "Sabine has never used any rogueish abilities" can be proved because there are only 676 strips in which such could be presented. Not having the compilation books, however, I was working off of the comic, which didn't have that note.

"longish trait vs. really goddamn long description of potential opposite" just doesn't fit the theme here.

So, wait, Sabine is supposed to be a Lawful succubus? Having sex three times in four hours with people that obviously aren't her partner isn't chaotic? Sorry, I'm not following you here.

Apologies for directly quoting wikipedia. But honestly, has it been revealed yet? No? Is it a direct quote of Rich? No? Get me the direct quote and I'll throw it on wikipedia, but meanwhile, as they're simply stating that Rich said there was another way they were opposites and it's not been revealed yet, cease thy twitchery. :smallyuk:

Why would Haley be a fiend? Because it fits, regardless of what the other options are (celestial, etc). What other options do you suggest?

Also, of course Haley's going to be described as a human. As we don't know 100% whether she is or not, Rich isn't going to put on the introductions "oh yeah and here's a spoiler that I've not even written in the webcomic yet". Do remember that almost every description ever of V puts him/her as androgynous. Did Rich suddenly decide that every elf ever is both male and female? No? So obviously V's descriptions are wrong for the sake of plot; why can't Haley's be?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Splinter of the Mind's Eye, one of the first Star Wars novels (and written by the guy who ghostwrote the novelization for George Lucas) included a scene where Luke daydreams about making out with Leia...

But no. Haley and Elan are not siblings. Cousins at worst, but nothing close than that.

[Kish]

Apologies for directly quoting wikipedia. But honestly, has it been revealed yet? No?

Given that I think it's probably "crippling lack of self-confidence vs. total confidence, particularly where relationships with the blond idiot brothers are concerned," I would say yes. But, that's just my opinion. The important thing is that directly quoting Rich saying "has yet to be revealed" without placing it temporally makes it sound like he has a daily updated post on the message board saying, "Nope, haven't revealed it yet." What can be asserted as a fact is, "Had not been revealed at the time Dungeon Crawling Fools came out" or, if you want to be extremely precise, "'...has yet to be revealed,' said Rich Burlew in the compilation volume Dungeon Crawling Fools."


Why would Haley be a fiend? Because it fits, regardless of what the other options are (celestial, etc). What other options do you suggest?

I suggest what everything in the comic supports: Human. There is no indication Haley is anything other than perfectly human.

[Armond]

The important thing is that directly quoting Rich...

Except, y'know, the part where I didn't directly quote Rich, and neither did Wikipedia.

Also, why are you trying to dissuade me from discussing theories in a theory discussion thread?

[Kish]

Also, why are you trying to dissuade me from discussing theories in a theory discussion thread?

A theory discussion thread? Really?

The post that started this thread wondered about Haley's father's kidnapping. If you want to introduce theorizing that she's an erinyes, I'm not going to tell you you can't; I don't even know if the OP is still reading it. As far as complaining about me somehow going against the nature of the thread*, though, mind the high horse stuff.

*Never mind the implication that only agreement with a theory would be a legitimate subject for "theory discussion."

[Armond]

Kish, I had a semi-elaborate response written out when I realized I would do better to delete it. Apologies for my poor word choice in my previous post.

[Lissou]

For people who are wondering about what the Giant said, I have decided to quote it here, from the commentary of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools.

Spoilered for people who don't want to know.

First comment about Sabine:

"I also had story plans for Sabine (plans which have yet to come to fruition, I might add)"

I'm pretty sure this refers to Sabine's superiors.

Second comment, this one related to Haley:

"The real key behind Sabine is that one would expect Haley, a female rogue, to get along with another female rogue." (So yeah, Sabine is a rogue). "[...] I've always felt she was more upset with the fact that Sabine is clearly "with" Nale. [...] Sabine hasn't really yet shown her true colors, and neither has Haley, so I'll keep quiet about another key way in which they are opposed"

I hope quoting the commentary like that is okay. I tried to quote as little as possible while keeping the parts that are related to the subject.

There as been a theory that the last comment referred to Haley lacking self confident while Sabine is very self-confident. But linking this to Haley's secret from when she lost her speech seems more likely to me.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Well...
Just what it sounds like.
Twincest (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwinCest)

Always (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) a possibility! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0365.html)

Quick! To the yaoimobile! :smallbiggrin:
(You read it. You can't unread it!)

[Kranden]

We know for a fact that elan's story will have a happy ending, I doubt he would be very happy to find out that Haley is his sister.

Nuff said.

[Turkish Delight]

We know for a fact that elan's story will have a happy ending, I doubt he would be very happy to find out that Haley is his sister.

Nuff said.

Pure conjecture. For all we know, Elan might be a really, really perverted little bugger. He snagged the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity when no one was looking, no?

[BishFish]

Haley's mom is an angel. in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html) (8 and 9 panel) one, she says "Mommy went to heaven last year" she says nothing about mommy dying. haley is an aasimar and therefore the opposite of sabine (who i think is a tiefling)

:haley::sabine:

[Gullara]

Haley's mom is an angel. in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html) (8 and 9 panel) one, she says "Mommy went to heaven last year" she says nothing about mommy dying. haley is an aasimar and therefore the opposite of sabine (who i think is a tiefling)

:haley::sabine:

:smallsigh:
Do you really think a little girl would say "mommy's dead" over "mommy went to heaven"?

[The MunchKING]

Better than Nale and Elan....Twincest! :smalleek:

Nale and Elan....Twincest?? Throw in Haley anyway! THREESOME TIME!! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:[/

[The MunchKING]

:smallsigh:
Do you really think a little girl would say "mommy's dead" over "mommy went to heaven"?

Depends on the girl. Wendsday probably would. :smallwink:

[Gullara]

I'm gunna go bleach my brain and never come back to this thread again.