You think the comic will ever mention the fact that Roy is behind in levels?

[Turkish Delight]

Resurrection costs a level, right? And he was dead for a long, long time while every else was out merrily lapping up experience in their various side quests. If he was the highest level PC in the group, it's very likely he's now considerably behind everyone else.

All of this has been mentioned and discussed on the board, but so far not a hint of it has crept into the comic. But then, Roy hasn't been back for all that many comics, either, and none of them have involved killing things. It seems kind of inconvenient, storywise, as well.

[daggaz]

Yeah, but thanks to the self correcting nature of the xp system, he will accrue more xp than the others for each encounter and will ultimately level out with them. Plus he gets bonus xp for being the group leader.

[ZerglingOne]

He also helped kill an entire evil adventuring party in the afterlife. I'm not so sure how much XP he may have gained, if any at all, but I'm sure if you CAN (which as far as I know you can) gain XP in the afterlife, climbing an incredibly tall mountain, helping to kill an evil adventuring party, and training for quite some time with a master swordsman HAS to give you something.

[Xesirin]

He also helped kill an entire evil adventuring party in the afterlife. I'm not so sure how much XP he may have gained, if any at all, but I'm sure if you CAN (which as far as I know you can) gain XP in the afterlife, climbing an incredibly tall mountain, helping to kill an evil adventuring party, and training for quite some time with a master swordsman HAS to give you something.

At the least it might equalize out the level he lost, but all of that relies on house rules.

[Trobby]

Considering Roy was probably just a bit beyond their level before his death, that he probably gained some EXP (or at least a really cool technique) in the afterlife, and the resurrection, I'd say he's probably about on-par with most of his group now. I'm not sure how V came out from the whole Soul Splice thing, he might've gained considerable EXP, or he may have actually gotten a pretty serious penalty from the whole ordeal. Either way, the party is probably now more equal than it has ever been.

[Rustic Dude]

I really do not think that, without spells, we could guess Roy's level, pre-death and post-death. He could be level 16 before his death, Fighters do not get goodies at fixed levels, like rangers or spellcasters, and "counting" the attacks per round in the comic is very risky.
I think that now he is at the same levels than the rest. 13-14...

And only controlling Belkar must give a truckload of Xp, for the effort. :smallbiggrin:

[Elfin]

According to the Class and Level Geekery Thread, Roy is level 12, with V at 14, Durkon and Elan at 14-15, and Haley at ~15...if we use those numbers, Roy is seriously outclassed, even with any roleplaying XP he's earned in the afterlife.

[Lkctgo]

He also helped kill an entire evil adventuring party in the afterlife. I'm not so sure how much XP he may have gained, if any at all, but I'm sure if you CAN (which as far as I know you can) gain XP in the afterlife, climbing an incredibly tall mountain, helping to kill an evil adventuring party, and training for quite some time with a master swordsman HAS to give you something.

Nope sorry, If I am not wrong you can't. It's part of the divine pact/reward thing where you can't gain levels in your God's Domain. The gods think it's cheating to allow your petitioner souls to continue gaining levels in your domain.

[krossbow]

Eh, roy pretty much had to cheat on his character sheet's stats based upon how he's functioned so far in the game.

I think he'll function pretty well, given how he keeps getting random artifact weapons and spectral training :smalltongue:

[BatRobin]

Nope sorry, If I am not wrong you can't. It's part of the divine pact/reward thing where you can't gain levels in your God's Domain. The gods think it's cheating to allow your petitioner souls to continue gaining levels in your domain.

Keep in mind his Afterlife wasn't his God's domain, because he's like, atheist of a sort.

[shadzar]

I think rather than Roy gaining a level, everyone else will be drained a level...such is the luck of the members of the Order.

[Lamech]

I think the Elan and V team just level before they split. Belkar leveled at least once. And then gained XP after that, giving him more xp than those three. (And Durkon will probably restore the lost level if he failed his save.) Haley I bet has gained even more XP. I suspect that Durkon has leveled or is about too, (as he had slightly less adventure than Elan/V.)

I guess there will probably be some mention of it all at some point. Either when Belkar asks for a restoration or when someone next levels.

[Scarlet Knight]

It will be mentioned as soon as a joke can be provided .

:roy: "Ok , let's go down a level..."

:haley: "Whoa, whoa! You're the only one who's gone down a level !"

:roy: "No, no! I meant..."

:belkar: "Hey, I only did it once & it was because YOU insisted we stay in that stupid city with the undead!"

:vaarsuvius: "Did we not, indeed, already use this joke?"

:durkon: " Ye dinnae need a level. We dwarves can tell slopin' floors..."

[DOOMBOT9000]

The only reason I can imagine it coming up is as a corollary to the Law of Cartoon Gravity, he'll only notice he's dropped behind once it's relevant comedically or dramatically.

One possibility is he could get frustrated when encounters keep ending before he has a chance to kill anything, then he gets reminded he has lost a few levels.

Or something in that general direction. Or not. dun dun DUUUHHHHH

[David Argall]

Pretty much no. The hero is generally assumed to be better than his companions, so Roy is going to remain just a little above the others, not below, unless some plot point makes it useful for him to be weaker.

[veti]

I'm not sure what makes anyone imagine that Roy could have lost more than one level from being dead...

And as for the time he was dead - we know Elan gained at least one level, Belkar gained one (and only one, unless his hippy-vision-quest was a level gain, which I saw no sign of). Haley may have gained more than one (possibly - we have no evidence that I'm aware of). All we know about Durkon is that he's high enough level to cast 7th level spells - which isn't all that impressive, by the party's standards. And as for V - well, pretty much anything might have happened to her XP total.

So I think it's far from established as a "fact" that Roy is now lower-level than everyone else. That's a conclusion that relies on a lot of very questionable assumptions.

[Spiky]

Pretty much no. The hero is generally assumed to be better than his companions, so Roy is going to remain just a little above the others, not below, unless some plot point makes it useful for him to be weaker.

Don't you think the months of afterlife visitation qualifies as a noticeable plot point?

My guess is that his level will become a factor when he tries to finish earning those feats that Horace introduced to him.

[Acero]

Considering Roy was probably just a bit beyond their level before his death, that he probably gained some EXP (or at least a really cool technique) in the afterlife, and the resurrection, I'd say he's probably about on-par with most of his group now. I'm not sure how V came out from the whole Soul Splice thing, he might've gained considerable EXP, or he may have actually gotten a pretty serious penalty from the whole ordeal. Either way, the party is probably now more equal than it has ever been.

it was stated that V wouldn't recieve any xp in his soul spliced state

and remember....

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0606.html

[veti]

it was stated that V wouldn't recieve any xp in his soul spliced state

Actually, what was stated was that "you won't get any XP from anything you defeat while you're spliced."

Which still leaves scope for roleplaying XP, of which I'd say she's due a bundle. When a PC takes her backstory that seriously, she surely deserves some credit for it.

[Berserk Monk]

Plus he gets bonus xp for being the group leader.

Where in any of the source books does it mention this?

[Acero]

Where in any of the source books does it mention this?

remember 606

[GallóglachMaxim]

Actually, what was stated was that "you won't get any XP from anything you defeat while you're spliced."

That 'you won't get any' wasn't an absolute, it was because his ECL got boosted through the top of the XP table by the splices, given the magnitude of the familicide spell, he might have gained a little experience from it.

[Starscream]

At the very least, some of his interactions in the afterlife should have net him a significant amount of Roleplaying XP. You can't tell me that his speech to the Great Gygax wasn't an awesome character moment.

And the "More than anything" strip would make a DM with a heart of stone cry obsidian tears.

[the_tick_rules]

given that leveling apparently occurs at the whim of the giant who knows how it'll work.

[Turkish Delight]

given the magnitude of the familicide spell, he might have gained a little experience from it.

It's been said a number of times, and I agree: any DM who would give any experience whatsoever for wiping out tens/hundreds/thousands of creatures with a single spell seemingly without a saving throw and used against an already defeated, defenseless enemy is freaking Santa Claus. I highly doubt V got a single drop of XP from Familicide.

[Haven]

Haley may have gained more than one (possibly - we have no evidence that I'm aware of).

Sure we do. Before the timeskip the most we saw her fire was three arrows in a single round. But when she sneak attack'd Crystal she fired four. Therefore she's gained at least one, possibly several, levels.

[David Argall]

Don't you think the months of afterlife visitation qualifies as a noticeable plot point?

Roy's afterlife time is just color and explanation. It can be the source of a plot point if needed, but pretty much it can be deducted from the story without much difference.
A plot point here is something the plot turns on. If Roy had been beating up Belkar, and now we wanted Belkar to start beating up Roy, we might drag in the level loss/gain as an excuse. But for most things it is just not visible to the reader. Roy battles monster. We have to really nerd out to figure out whether Roy is 13th/12th/14th level, and normally will only be able to determine the monster was weaker/stronger/equal to Roy.

[Almaseti]

I feel like pointing out that if Roy is underleveled, Belkar must also be fairly under, since not only did he lose that level from the wight (the only one he gained offscreen) but he's been dual classing (sprinkle of barbarian) with a character that isn't human or half-elf (and this gets penalties) and I don't get the impression that the levels are equal (SPRINKLE) and neither is a preferred class for halflings, so Belkar still isn't going to be beating up Roy without good reason.

[Watcher]

Sure we do. Before the timeskip the most we saw her fire was three arrows in a single round. But when she sneak attack'd Crystal she fired four. Therefore she's gained at least one, possibly several, levels.

If she won initiative, she could have fired three in the surprise round, and one in the first combat round. She wanted to talk to her before she killed her.

[Shale]

In addition to everything else, Roy was the highest-level member of the Order before his death, so it's more likely that he just lost his level advantage over the rest of the team instead of actually falling behind them.

[Ozymandias9]

Sure we do. Before the timeskip the most we saw her fire was three arrows in a single round. But when she sneak attack'd Crystal she fired four. Therefore she's gained at least one, possibly several, levels.

I would check against the Level geekery thread: if we were looking at a BAB above 11, she could use rapid shot to fire 4 with a full attack and many shot to fire 3 as a standard action. Unless the 3 we saw her fire before the time break were, with certainty, a full round attack with a rapid shot included, we don't know enough to say her BAB changed.

[Deliverance]

In addition to everything else, Roy was the highest-level member of the Order before his death, so it's more likely that he just lost his level advantage over the rest of the team instead of actually falling behind them.
Was he?

I can't seem to remember it being stated anywhere in OOTS that Roy was higher level than the rest of the order at any time prior to his death, but I guess my memory might have failed me. Where is this stated?

[Herald Alberich]

Was he?

I can't seem to remember it being stated anywhere in OOTS that Roy was higher level than the rest of the order at any time prior to his death, but I guess my memory might have failed me. Where is this stated?

His father says so here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html)

edit: Hah, look at that, he did train with a martial arts master who lived in the afterlife.

[HealthKit]

His father says so here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html)



Yes, but don't forget that he says that Roy was the highest level good character on the field.

[Berserk Monk]

remember 606

What about 606? Are you talking about that strip?

[Herald Alberich]

Yes, but don't forget that he says that Roy was the highest level good character on the field.

Yes, and the whole Order was there, so ... ah, I see what you mean. I don't think Belkar was higher level than Roy, though. Don't really have much to back that up, but it seems likely. Vaarsuvius, though, is a possibility. Haley did call him their most powerful member during the battle; I don't think I have enough D&D experience to say whether that means he's higher level, or simply that a wizard is more powerful than a fighter in that level range.

So lets say I think Roy, if not higher in level than the rest of the Order, was not lower in level than any of them.

[cabbagesquirrel]

Who says you can't gain xp whilst being a spirit in heaven, he got taught some new tricks, did a lot of character building, etc etc, sounds like experience to me!

If i was a DM i'd give my players xp for working around being dead.

[danielmayer]

... and don't forget that Belkar lost a level in #515 he could/should've had.

[Turkish Delight]

... and don't forget that Belkar lost a level in #515 he could/should've had.

Sorry, my 3rd edition knowledge is lacking. Isn't that particular level just one Restoration spell away from recovery? Presumably he's gotten it back since.

If level drain is permanent in 3rd edition, then I can only imagine the appropriate undead are pretty insanely overpowered.

[lord_khaine]

His father says so here.


The same father who has consistently shown himself to be untrustworthy, and to take any excuse he could find to nag on Roy.


Sorry, my 3rd edition knowledge is lacking. Isn't that particular level just one Restoration spell away from recovery? Presumably he's gotten it back since.

If level drain is permanent in 3rd edition, then I can only imagine the appropriate undead are pretty insanely overpowered.

To start with the level is only a singel fortitude save 24 hours later away, with a dc of around 15.
if that fails its just a singel restoration then, the class&level geekery thread is assuming he got it back.

[Turkish Delight]

Yes, but don't forget that he says that Roy was the highest level good character on the field.

Yeah, but the context would seem to imply 'good' as in 'fighting on the side of the good guys' rather than literally good aligned and 'on the field' as 'somewhere out there fighting Xykon and his minions' rather than outside the city walls or what-have-you. I highly doubt he'd factor V out of his tirade simply because V is Neutral, for example.

But of course, the very fact that it's a tirade and from a questionable source means it might just be considered a throw-away line. How does he know what levels they all are? Is there some privileged information he has access to that we don't?

[Shale]

If Eugene had been wrong (or splitting hairs about V/Belkar's alignment) I doubt Roy would have let it pass without comment.

[Kish]

I wish people would quit citing the Class and Level Geekery thread as though it had authority it doesn't have (and I say that as a contributor to the thread, because it's a fun thought exercise when it's not being waved around in other threads).

If Eugene had been wrong (or splitting hairs about V/Belkar's alignment) I doubt Roy would have let it pass without comment.
This presumes that Roy knows the exact level of everyone on the field and also, I disagree. Saying, "Actually, Vaarsuvius is higher level than me" wouldn't accomplish anything but to sound whiny.

[Shale]

Also, in the OotS world, level is an easily quantified and fairly exact measure of a person's combat prowess. Why wouldn't Roy take the time to find out exactly what level his allies are? All he's got to do is ask, and then keep track of who's leveled up since then. (I'm sure he could work out a spreadsheet. He has an MBA, you know.)

[Volkov]

Keep in mind his Afterlife wasn't his God's domain, because he's like, atheist of a sort.

He was an agonist, well sort of, he'd never really interact with the gods. Most of the great aberrations would support roy on that stance towards the gods. Especially the Aboleths.

Funny, Roy's mindset has more in common with a super-intelligent, lovecraftian, indescripable, psionic horror from the deep than with his closest friend, a dwarf.

[Spiky]

(I'm sure he could work out a spreadsheet. He has an MBA, you know.)

Well, I haven't met one yet who could.

[whitelaughter]

I highly doubt he'd factor V out of his tirade simply because V is Neutral, for example.
Agreed. His approval of V while destroying the info on V's actions indicates that he considers V more of a 'good guy' than he does Roy.

[WarKirby]

V got Energy Drain cast on him twice against xykon, one maximised. Doesn't that cost at least 10 levels ?

[Starscream]

V got Energy Drain cast on him twice against xykon, one maximised. Doesn't that cost at least 10 levels ?

Yes and no. 24 hours after the spell is cast, the subject gets to make saves to see if the drain is permanent or not.

Xykon's DC is surely pretty high, but it was made pretty explicit that the spliced souls were the ones who took the hit from those spells. V didn't get any drains after losing them, so is probably at the same level as originally.

[paladinofshojo]

Only when it's convenient for jokes or plot (most likely both :smalltongue:)