Psionics and Incarnum?

[Mephisoth]

So, I'm starting up a new campaign for my local gaming group based in the stone age, and one of my players came up with a neat idea to run a character around a hybrid of incarnum and psionics.

However, after taking a look through the PrC sections of complete psionics, magic of incarnum and complete mage, we were unable to find any support for this within the wotc sourcebooks. This wouldn't be so much of an issue normally, but this is a fairly atypical game and arcane/divine vancian magic isn't available to the PCs, so that is out the window as an option.

More specifically, my player was looking at something somewhere between a totemist from MoI and an Ardent from CompPsi. A sort of tribal shaman, focused on creation, communication, and invention.

So far I've got some feats from MoI that mix the two, but they are really pretty limited.

I'm curious to see if anyone has found any material or come up with anything to fix this gap, any feats he could take, PrCs that would be useful, or clever combinations of soulmelds and powers? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. :smallsmile:

[Cyclocone]

Check this out. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)

[Mephisoth]

Wow, that's pretty much perfectly what I needed, thanks. I'll send this link over to my player and see what he thinks.

[Person_Man]

Also, don't overlook Midnight Augmentation. It absolutely rocks for improving long term Psionic buffs like Claws of the Beast.

[Glimbur]

Don't be afraid to homebrew some stuff. Incarnum didn't get a lot of support. There's the book, a few melds in Dragon Magic, and some web expansions. Beyond that... homebrew.

[Draz74]

Also, don't overlook Midnight Augmentation. It absolutely rocks for improving long term Psionic buffs like Claws of the Beast.

And Psycarnum Infusion is surprisingly powerful, too, for a primarily-psionic character who has Soulmelds but not much Essentia.

But adding a homebrew PrC that hybrids the two sources is probably a good idea too.

[Sinfire Titan]

And Psycarnum Infusion is surprisingly powerful, too, for a primarily-psionic character who has Soulmelds but not much Essentia.

But adding a homebrew PrC that hybrids the two sources is probably a good idea too.

But there all ready is one. The link above leads to Psionics of Incarnum, and the Soul Manifester.

Mindnight Augmentation has a potentially broken interpretation:


It reduces the overall cost of the total augments by X, so an augmented Astral Construct manifested at ML 17th instead costs up to 5 points less (for 5 Essentia in Midnight Augmentation). Powerful, but because of the limits on the feat; balanced.
It cheapens the actual augment cost. Astral Construct+Midnight Augmentation (1 Essentia) instead only takes 11 PP to get the equivalent of a 9th level Astral Construct. Game breaker.


Don't use the second option. Even if the DM says so, that option is overpowered.

[Fax Celestis]

Psychic Warrior/Totemist/Soul Manifester is actually a rather potent meleer, believe it or not. Between claws of the beast and Sphinx Claws...

[Fishy]

Weirdly, the maximum power level of an Ardent is determined by their Manifester Level and not their class level.

IE, an Ardent 1/Totemist 2 with the Practiced Manifester feat gets to take a 2nd level power the next time he gains an Ardent level. The really good natural-weapon-enhancing powers are in Psychic Warrior, but you can nab Metaphysical Claw from the Nature mantle and take Extra Spell as necessary.

Complete Psionic also has the Synad race, who can take two swift actions per round a couple of times per day, if, hypothetically, you wanted to shift all of your essentia out of your defensive powers, into your offensive powers, and then back.

[Sinfire Titan]

Psychic Warrior/Totemist/Soul Manifester is actually a rather potent meleer, believe it or not. Between claws of the beast and Sphinx Claws...

I prefer using War Mind/Soul Manifester/Legacy Champion (so BAB and HD don't take too big of a hit). Totemist 8/War Mind 4/Soul Manifester 2/Legacy Champion 4 (advancing Soul Manifester)

[Draz74]

But there all ready is one. The link above leads to Psionics of Incarnum, and the Soul Manifester.
Right. My comment was intended to +1 support your link. I said nothing about having to homebrew a new hybrid class from scratch.

[Person_Man]

But there all ready is one. The link above leads to Psionics of Incarnum, and the Soul Manifester.

Mindnight Augmentation has a potentially broken interpretation:


It reduces the overall cost of the total augments by X, so an augmented Astral Construct manifested at ML 17th instead costs up to 5 points less (for 5 Essentia in Midnight Augmentation). Powerful, but because of the limits on the feat; balanced.
It cheapens the actual augment cost. Astral Construct+Midnight Augmentation (1 Essentia) instead only takes 11 PP to get the equivalent of a 9th level Astral Construct. Game breaker.


Don't use the second option. Even if the DM says so, that option is overpowered.

I use the second option, and it's not that horrible. Remember, essentia feats are limited by your hit die, and are not improved by class abilities or feats. Essentia feats top out at 4 points at 18 hit die.

[Draz74]

I use the second option, and it's not that horrible. Remember, essentia feats are limited by your hit die, and are not improved by class abilities or feats. Essentia feats top out at 4 points at ECL 20.

Um, wow. Find me a single psionic build, ever, that won't take this feat with this interpretation. Even if they otherwise have nothing to do with Incarnum.

[Glimbur]

I use the second option, and it's not that horrible. Remember, essentia feats are limited by your hit die, and are not improved by class abilities or feats. Essentia feats top out at 4 points at ECL 20.

Unless you cheat. There's a feat to expand the capacity of all your [Incarnum] feats by 1 (Improved Essentia Capacity). You can't use Incarnum Focus items because the feats don't correspond to a body slot. The Incarnate class feature doesn't apply either... so you can't cheat very much.

[Sinfire Titan]

I use the second option, and it's not that horrible. Remember, essentia feats are limited by your hit die, and are not improved by class abilities or feats. Essentia feats top out at 4 points at ECL 20.

16th. And 5 with a second feat.


And just imagine the second one with something like Cranial Deluge, Deja Vu, Death Urge, or Temporal Acceleration. Reducing the Augment costs on those powers to 1 means every point spent to augment those powers is going to do something. For something like Deja Vu, they are stuck repeating their actions every round for X rounds, where X is 3-the total PP spent and the DC is massive. Death Urge too; there's a reason it has one of the highest Augment costs in the game.

Temporal Acceleration was balanced at a 6th level power because its augment costs so much. Reducing it to 1 (easily done when you obtain the power) means the Psion is spending a single point for an extra round, and can get up to 10 rounds with a single manifestation, no other metapsionic feats or items involved. Wizards can get that too, but it takes a huge investment (more than just 2 feats, a power known, and 3 points of essentia).


It effectively removes the major limits on the augment system, one of the balancing points of Psionics. BAD idea.

[Person_Man]

Unless you cheat. There's a feat to expand the capacity of all your [Incarnum] feats by 1 (Improved Essentia Capacity). You can't use Incarnum Focus items because the feats don't correspond to a body slot. The Incarnate class feature doesn't apply either... so you can't cheat very much.

Forgot about that one. OK, so your max is 5 points, but for most of your career it will be 2-4 points.


Um, wow. Find me a single psionic build, ever, that won't take this feat with this interpretation. Even if they otherwise have nothing to do with Incarnum.

Well, getting 5 essentia points requires 5 levels of Incarnate or 7 levels of Incarnate, and/or you can get 1 point by being an Incarnum race (essentially giving up other racial abilities) and/or you get 1 or 2 points for most Incarnum feats. Plus you have to spend feats on Midnight Augmentation and Improved Essentia Capacity. So at a minimum, we're talking about 3 feats plus choosing a specialized race, or 2 feats and picking up a 4 levels of Incarnate.

It's good. But it's not game breaking.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, getting 5 essentia points requires 5 levels of Incarnate or 7 levels of Incarnate, and/or you can get 1 point by being an Incarnum race (essentially giving up other racial abilities) and/or you get 1 or 2 points for most Incarnum feats. Plus you have to spend feats on Midnight Augmentation and Improved Essentia Capacity. So at a minimum, we're talking about 3 feats plus choosing a specialized race, or 2 feats and picking up a 4 levels of Incarnate.

Well, or using one of those psionic powers that grants temporary essentia. Or using an essentia crystal. Or using something like the helm of essentia.