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pirateking89
2009-09-09, 11:09 AM
Does a high level rogue get sneak attack damage on every hit or just the first of a full round attack?

Eloel
2009-09-09, 11:10 AM
depends on how he gets the sneak attack.

lsfreak
2009-09-09, 11:14 AM
If he still qualifies (i.e. flanking) it's every hit. Cases it wouldn't would bethings like invisibility (breaks after first attack) or feinting (against next melee attack only).

Person_Man
2009-09-09, 11:54 AM
You get it on each attack that qualifies, including attacks of opportunity. Qualifying can be a bit confusing though.

Also, you need not wait until high level. You can get 2+ attacks at level one with Two Weapon Fighting and/or natural weapons.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 11:56 AM
You get it on each attack that qualifies, including attacks of opportunity.

Not on AoOs, at least not without Sneak Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#sneakAttackOfOpportunity), an epic feat.

Eloel
2009-09-09, 12:00 PM
Not on AoOs, at least not without Sneak Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#sneakAttackOfOpportunity), an epic feat.

If you qualify for Sneak Attack on AOOs, you still get your SA dice added.

That feat lets you SA on AOOs even if you don't normally qualify.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 12:24 PM
If you qualify for Sneak Attack on AOOs, you still get your SA dice added.

That feat lets you SA on AOOs even if you don't normally qualify.

...really? You're telling me I've been playing that wrong all this time? o_O

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-09, 12:27 PM
...really? You're telling me I've been playing that wrong all this time? o_O

Its a horrible waste of an Epic feat. Should have been part of the PH2 feat that allows your Crits to count as Sneak Attacks. But yes.

Yuki Akuma
2009-09-09, 12:27 PM
...really? You're telling me I've been playing that wrong all this time? o_O

...Tell me, how would you rule it if you never read that feat?

That feat makes every attack of opportunity a sneak attack. It is not required to make sneak attacks on attacks of opportunity.

If you're invisible and make an attack of opportunity.. guess what? Sneak attack! You don't need to be epic to do that.

Forbiddenwar
2009-09-09, 12:28 PM
Cases it wouldn't would be things like invisibility (breaks after first attack)

Depends on what is granting invisibility. Invisibility like the spell breaks after the first attack but there are abilities and spells (like greater invisibility) that grant invisibility that doesn't break after the first attack. In this case a rogue can sneak attack every hit until the effect wears off.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 12:31 PM
...Tell me, how would you rule it if you never read that feat?

That feat makes every attack of opportunity a sneak attack. It is not required to make sneak attacks on attacks of opportunity.

If you're invisible and make an attack of opportunity.. guess what? Sneak attack! You don't need to be epic to do that.

I dunno. I just sort of mentally filed "attack of opportunity" under "cannot reach vital spot" mentally.

Forbiddenwar
2009-09-09, 12:33 PM
...really? You're telling me I've been playing that wrong all this time? o_O

Fax misinterpreting a feat? playing it wrong? *Shocked face* I never thought to see the day. (this is not sarcasm, I am really surprised)

It does make sense that you can SA on an AoO if you qualify, and it seems like a good epic feat to be able to SA on every AoO, especially with a high dex and combat reflexes.

Lycanthromancer
2009-09-09, 12:38 PM
I dunno. I just sort of mentally filed "attack of opportunity" under "cannot reach vital spot" mentally.

Tell me something...

Say you and an ally have an empty 5' space between you, and an enemy runs between the two of you.

Would it be flanked when you take your AoO?

If so, and you can sneak attack whenever you flank an enemy, how does taking an AoO on a flanked creature negate your ability to SA for that attack since there are no qualifiers stating that the attack must be on your turn for the SA to work?

Similar logic applies for other situations where you'd normally get SA, such as greater invisibility, ethereality, etc.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 12:40 PM
Tell me something...

Say you and an ally have an empty 5' space between you, and an enemy runs between the two of you.

Would it be flanked when you take your AoO?

If so, and you can sneak attack whenever you flank an enemy, how does taking an AoO on a flanked creature negate your ability to SA for that attack since there are no qualifiers stating that the attack must be on your turn for the SA to work?

Similar logic applies for other situations where you'd normally get SA, such as greater invisibility, ethereality, etc.

Man, I dunno. Don't use your 'logic' on me!

Curmudgeon
2009-09-09, 12:40 PM
Actually I think you're more likely to get an AoO if you qualify for sneak attack. Typically this will occur because you're visually undetectable (invisible or hidden), so enemies will provoke without knowing they're doing so. So of course you'll apply sneak attack damage to those AoOs.

Roukon
2009-09-09, 12:40 PM
Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm), you are able to sneak attack your opponent "any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target".

Forbiddenwar
2009-09-09, 12:43 PM
Tell me something...

Say you and an ally have an empty 5' space between you, and an enemy runs between the two of you.

Would it be flanked when you take your AoO?


NO. Poor example. AoO occurs before the action that provokes it (in this case moving)

XPX
XXXE
XPX

E begins to move, no AoO because out of range

XPX
XXE
XPX

E keeps moving
AoO occurs (E is not flanked)
E continues to move

XPX
XEX
XPX

Eloel
2009-09-09, 01:05 PM
XFE
XXX
XRX

E begins to move. Provokes from F. F is a fighter, so no issue.

XFX
XEX
XRX

E keeps moving, provokes from R. R is a rogue, he sneak attacks for flanking.

XFX
EXX
XRX

E finishes moving. He got AOOd by both character, and rogue even got to SA him.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 01:08 PM
NO. Poor example. AoO occurs before the action that provokes it (in this case moving)

XPX
XXXE
XPX

E begins to move, no AoO because out of range

XPX
XXE
XPX

E keeps moving
AoO occurs (E is not flanked)
E continues to move

XPX
XEX
XPX

If rogue forgoes his first AoO and then accepts the second AoO from moving out of the flanked, threatened square, he can get flanking.

You don't have to accept the first opportunity, and declining one doesn't prevent their provoking for other movement.

Eloel
2009-09-09, 01:10 PM
You don't have to accept the first opportunity, and declining one doesn't prevent their provoking for other movement.
It does actually


Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent

If you decline one opportunity you got, you don't get more opportunities from movement from the same opponent.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-09, 01:12 PM
It does actually
If you decline one opportunity you got, you don't get more opportunities from movement from the same opponent.

Man. I am a fail today. -_- I remembered that like two seconds after I posted too.

Eloel
2009-09-09, 01:14 PM
Man. I am a fail today. -_- I remembered that like two seconds after I posted too.

Get a good sleep, it tends to help :smalltongue:

Lycanthromancer
2009-09-09, 01:20 PM
And if the "E" starts between both characters? If the space between the two characters is on a corner?

Also, you can take an AoO any time the creature moves out of a space you occupy, though you can only make one AoO based on a single move action. The fact that you do it on the second space rather than the first only means you get sneak attack, rather than not.

woodenbandman
2009-09-09, 02:50 PM
What about Opportunist rogue special ability + Savvy Rogue? Does the same thing.

Irreverent Fool
2009-09-09, 02:58 PM
It does actually
If you decline one opportunity you got, you don't get more opportunities from movement from the same opponent.

Easy enough. You choose not to threaten.

obnoxious
sig

Bagelz
2009-09-09, 03:07 PM
Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm), you are able to sneak attack your opponent "any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target".

^ This. The additional feat makes it so you can add sneak attack damage to other situations, but yes to every single attack while this applies. This is the full attack if they are flanked or flatfooted(or prone, or sleeping, ect), the first attack of a surprise round.

theres a feat in complete adventurer that lets you make an aoo after you are hit (karmic strike i believe) that goes great with sneak attack of opportunity at epic levels

Typewriter
2009-09-09, 03:13 PM
the first attack of a surprise round.


If I'm not mistaken you're flat-footed until your first turn in combat, so if during a surprise round a rogue gets a full round attack, then his initiative allows him another full round attack, then all of those are made with you flat footed.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong of course....I don't have the books available to me or I'd go look it up myself to confirm...

sofawall
2009-09-09, 03:21 PM
Surprise round is partial action, not full round.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-09, 03:22 PM
If I'm not mistaken you're flat-footed until your first turn in combat, so if during a surprise round a rogue gets a full round attack, then his initiative allows him another full round attack, then all of those are made with you flat footed.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong of course....I don't have the books available to me or I'd go look it up myself to confirm...Surprise round is only one standard action, so it's only a single attack for anyone other than Pouncers.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-09, 03:47 PM
Easy enough. You choose not to threaten. Choice does not enter into this, unless you decided to drop your weapons previously when it was your turn (and don't have Improved Unarmed Strike).
You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action.
Lycanthromancer has already given (almost) the correct answer, though.
Also, you can take an AoO any time the creature moves out of a space you occupy threaten, though you can only make one AoO based on a single move action. The fact that you do it on the second space rather than the first only means you get sneak attack, rather than not. I fixed the one goof.

Lycanthromancer
2009-09-09, 03:52 PM
Oops.

That's what I meant to say.