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RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-09, 03:25 PM
I'm trying to plan out my character for a game. Its a changling, I was originally gonna go warblade4/warshaper1/cabinet trickster 5/warshaper 3/warblade 7
but I'm now thinking about playing a really crazy build as i've found that the social aspect i was gonna play up isn't really happening. so the new idea is
warblade2/crusader2/SS2/ and then alternate between the three untill level 20.

I wanted to know what people thought of it. the rest of the group is terribly underpowered accept our cleric who's going for the soverign host PRC with all the domains.
Would that be a decent build?

Eldariel
2009-09-09, 03:33 PM
You do realize you're obliged to go Master of the Nine eventually, right? Well, if you're going for Two-Handing, you could pull that off. Although I'd alter the three every level.

Swordsage 1 gets 1st level maneuvers
Warblade 1 gets 1st level maneuvers
Crusader 1 gets 1st level maneuvers
but the second iterations get 2nd level maneuver for all. You'd also be able to pick up Adaptive Style (a true must for this character; you'll have more maneuvers than you can shake a stick at) and Extra Granted Maneuver and go to town.


Could be fun!

woodenbandman
2009-09-09, 03:34 PM
If you do do the shuffle thing don't do it constantly 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 etc.

Go maybe like 2/2/2 then Prestige Class into something, which will stack your initiator levels in all of them. I recommend going master of 9 by the end, and maybe even some Shadow Sun Ninja, Eternal Blade, or Deepstone Sentinal. Anything to advance your initiator level.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-09, 03:36 PM
I am currently a level 2 warblade... and my GM unfortunatly uses the Favored class rules so I would have to take then in 2's untill there all level two i can switch it up and be like crusader 1/ ss2/crusader or some thing like that

Eldariel
2009-09-09, 03:43 PM
I am currently a level 2 warblade... and my GM unfortunatly uses the Favored class rules so I would have to take then in 2's untill there all level two i can switch it up and be like crusader 1/ ss2/crusader or some thing like that

Well, take SS last then 'cause that gets you level 2 maneuvers on the 1st Swordsage level. Too bad you can't benefit of Swordsage's superior skill points.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-09, 03:46 PM
Well, take SS last then 'cause that gets you level 2 maneuvers on the 1st Swordsage level. Too bad you can't benefit of Swordsage's superior skill points.

heh ya.. though for the game the GM made ever class have + 2 skill points per level so as a warblade i had 6+ int

Sophismata
2009-09-09, 05:50 PM
With WB 5 / Cr 5 / SS 5 / Mo9 5 you'll get an initiator level of 15 (8th level manoeuvres), and a BAB of +16 (4 attacks).

Roughly (as a human):

Unarmed Variant SS 1 - Adaptive Style, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Stone Dragon), Improved Unarmed Strike, level 1 stance
Cr 1 - level 1 stance
WB 1 - Desert Wind Dodge, level 1 stance
WB 2 - IL3
WB 3
WB 4 - IL5, Ironheart Aura, level 3 stance
WB 5 - Blind Fight
SS 2 - IL5, level 3 stance
Cr 2 - IL5, Stormguard Warrior, level 3 stance
SS 3 - IL6
Cr 3 - IL7
SS 4 - IL8, feat
Cr 4 - IL9
SS 5 - IL9, level 5 stance
Cr 5 - IL10, feat
Mo9 1 - IL11
Mo9 2 - level 6 stance
Mo9 3 - feat
Mo9 4 - level 6 stance
Mo9 5 - IL15 ( 2 Manoeuvres, no stance )

Use your Mo9 manoeuvres to add to Crusader. You can add any of the 9 disciplines and use the Crusader mechanic. Furthermore, each extra readied manoeuvre gives you an extra granted.

If you want a level 8 stance, you'll need another prestige class, or a less even split (but this is kinda classy).

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-09, 08:37 PM
With WB 5 / Cr 5 / SS 5 / Mo9 5 you'll get an initiator level of 15 (8th level manoeuvres), and a BAB of +16 (4 attacks).

Roughly (as a human):

Unarmed Variant SS 1 - Adaptive Style, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Stone Dragon), Improved Unarmed Strike, level 1 stance
Cr 1 - level 1 stance
WB 1 - Dodge, level 1 stance
WB 2 - IL3
WB 3
WB 4 - IL5, Ironheart Aura, level 3 stance
WB 5 - Blind Fight
SS 2 - IL5, level 3 stance
Cr 2 - IL5, Stormguard Warrior, level 3 stance
SS 3 - IL6
Cr 3 - IL7
SS 4 - IL8, feat
Cr 4 - IL9
SS 5 - IL9, level 5 stance
Cr 5 - IL10, feat
Mo9 1 - IL11
Mo9 2 - level 6 stance
Mo9 3 - feat
Mo9 4 - level 6 stance
Mo9 5 - IL15 ( 2 Manoeuvres, no stance )

Use your Mo9 manoeuvres to add to Crusader. You can add any of the 9 disciplines and use the Crusader mechanic. Furthermore, each extra readied manoeuvre gives you an extra granted.

If you want a level 8 stance, you'll need another prestige class, or a less even split (but this is kinda classy).
Unfortunatly that won't work for me 1 because im not a human 2. multiclass restrictions(aka not a favored class)

But i will take you advice for feats.

Godskook
2009-09-09, 09:26 PM
As a general rule:

Focus Warblade maneuvers on 'must have' abilities that are worth spending swift actions to get back, such as Diamond Mind counters, or Iron Heart Surge.

Focus Crusader Maneuvers on 'anyone will do' abilities, primarily strikes.

Dump Swordsage Maneuvers on 'only need it once' abilities or maneuvers that you can't afford to wait on till later, or this will be your only chance to get.

The above holds true for maneuvers gained from Mo9, but be warned, Mo9 does not give 'maneuvers granted', so be vary wary about adding to what you add to your crusader 'ammo case'. Wait, Sophismata, are you sure about that? That'd be awesome if true.

Going 5/5/5, and then prestige to Mo9 won't get you much on the high end(you'll only have 1 level to get all your maneuvers), and you're better off dumping swordsage, honestly, since it has the weakest exclusive disciplines. Skipping swordsage, and going 7/8 between the other two, and grabbing Mo9 gives you higher maneuvers and better recovery systems all around.

Honestly though, Warblade 20 is pretty good, and the capstone is glorious(two stances at once? Yes please).

Finally, if you take Mo9, do not take 'dodge' as a feat. Take 'desert wind dodge'. It is actually more useful, as marginal as it still is.

Douglas
2009-09-09, 09:29 PM
The above holds true for maneuvers gained from Mo9, but be warned, Mo9 does not give 'maneuvers granted', so be vary wary about adding to what you add to your crusader 'ammo case'. Wait, Sophismata, are you sure about that? That'd be awesome if true.
Yes. See page 96. This makes Mo9 extremely powerful for Crusaders, though very difficult to qualify for without multiclassing.

Sophismata
2009-09-10, 04:32 AM
But i will take you advice for feats.

Waah - only do so if you intend to take Master of Nine. The Master of Nine prerequisite feats are pretty terrible, so if you're not going for that prestige class you can skip Dodge and Blind-Fight, and don't need to bother with the Improved Unarmed Strike Swordsage.

Stormguard Warrior is an excellent feat, and Warblade 5 gives you a bonus feat. You can use that bonus feat to get a Mo9 prereq, or to get Ironheart Aura, the Stormguard prereq.



Finally, if you take Mo9, do not take 'dodge' as a feat. Take 'desert wind dodge'. It is actually more useful, as marginal as it still is.

Oops, completely forgot about this. Many thanks.

Yes, prestige classes that give extra readied manoeuvres also give extra granted. It's page 96, under 'Martial Adepts, Maneuvers Readied':

"If you choose to add the maneuver readied to a martial maneuver progression derived from crusader class levels, you also gain one additional maneuver granted at the beginning of the encounter for each additional maneuver you can ready." - Tome of Battle

It's hidden away, but was an awesome find :smallsmile:.