PDA

View Full Version : fighter advice.



Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 02:30 PM
I'm looking for advice for a fighter. My DM has forbidden the use of ToB (I have two different DMs.) because it will be overpowered compared to the others playing core classes. I'm not capable of changing his mind and I don't really care. all I want is good advice for a fighter. I should also mention that he uses the rules from "torn asunder." so if you know of anything that gets rid of critical failures that'd be nice. this game isn't starting any time soon so I don't have stats. I want to play a fighter who's good at melee and using bows. I'm thinking of playing a human but if there's a better race for fighters please suggest it. no half orcs.

Like I said. NO TOB PERIOD. posts suggesting it will be dismissed.

any advice for good feats? I'd also like suggestions for feats that make me more competent against fighting wizards and things. I'm open to any suggestions but I'd like some feats and things that give me a little variation in attack.

If I'm not giving you enough to work with please tell me.

darkblust
2009-09-10, 02:40 PM
Power attack,but you should already know that.Dwarves are fun,but arent fast and wont be able to get to the magic users.What books are you aloud to use?

Eldariel
2009-09-10, 02:41 PM
What sources are allowed? What level? What stat generation method? Multiclassing? A bit more info needed here.

Anyways, you'll be running out of feats if you wanna do both, Archery & Melee. Also, Fighter doesn't get the key skills for Archery. Best way to do both would probably be to dip two levels of Ranger to get Rapid Shot without wasting feats on prerequisites, and focus on two-handing. That might be doable.

Temet Nosce
2009-09-10, 02:41 PM
I've gotta leave the PC soon, but I'll suggest taking a look at Jack B. Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1_Jack_B_Quick). My personal favorite style of fighter build, although there are other reasonable ways to play a Fighter.

Typewriter
2009-09-10, 02:46 PM
Do you want to maximize damage, or are you going for something else?

Fighter class, or fighter type character?

If a fighter type character, what are you *not* interested in (spells/wild shape)?

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 02:46 PM
I don't know about other books so just assume core for right now. I've messaged him but he's not online right now and it could be a while before he responds. I assume his stat generation method is dice rolling since I haven't heard about him using a different method.

his campaigns begin at level 1. I hope that helps at least.

fighter class and I don't like druids, Wizards or sorcerors. I like being a melee class and using wildshape or polymorph or whatever feels like cheating. I'm sorry I can't give a better reason I just don't like the spellcasting classes. I simply want to be the fighter class.

Faulty
2009-09-10, 02:48 PM
Power Attack is always a safe bet. If you can use non-core, get Shock Trooper and Leap Attack. Your charges will be pretty brutral with a two handed weapon.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 02:50 PM
I should also mention I always use greatswords and halberds/lances for my characters. Simply personal preference.

Eldariel
2009-09-10, 02:51 PM
Are you familiar with Saph's Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)? 'cause failing to go heavy Barbarian, that seems like a great template for a core Fighter with decent skills, some nice boosts, all the key feats and overall solid capabilities.

Best of all, it has two levels of Ranger so you can pick up Rapid Shot, becoming as good an archer as you will be in Core (the rest comes from weapon enhancements and insanely high Str & Dex), while already being proficient in melee.


EDIT: Fighter class? Any multiclassing? 'cause that's gonna be hard. Beyond Power Attack, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Spirited Charge and Rapid Shot, there's just painful little you'd want.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 02:53 PM
I haven't been playing 3.5 for long so I won't have seen any builds online. just FYI

Myou
2009-09-10, 02:53 PM
Given the stats, those are pretty much the only weapons you should use, they're the most powerful.

Shpadoinkle
2009-09-10, 02:54 PM
Play a warb- oh, that's banned for no good reason. Okay then... you're pretty much left with either building a tripmonkey, an ubercharger, or playing a class that isn't a one-trick pony.

Swordguy
2009-09-10, 02:54 PM
fighter class and I don't like druids, Wizards or sorcerors. I like being a melee class and using wildshape or polymorph or whatever feels like cheating. I'm sorry I can't give a better reason I just don't like the spellcasting classes. I simply want to be the fighter class.

Completely understandable.

What is the regular optimization level of this group? Are they Tippy-esque wizards, Munchkin Batman wizards, Batman wizards the way they're supposed to be played, or blaster casters?

If you're seeing guys playing the game they way it was designed to be played, and you come in with a Leap Attack+Shock trooper or other Ubercharger/Ubertripper optimized build, they're not going to like you much, because to their group, you'll be powergaming. If they are playing fully optimized PCs, then by all means, listen to the replies you'll mainly get here.

Typewriter
2009-09-10, 02:55 PM
I don't have my books in front of me right now so I don't remember the feats or anything, but I made a build at one point using polearms where every hit from a power attack was considered a bull rush, combined with another feat that if you bull rush a combatant into one of his allies squares you make trip attacks against both of them.

Damage output was kind of low but he could defend the party pretty well if they were getting swarmed by knocking enemies into each other and tripping two at once.

Eldariel
2009-09-10, 02:59 PM
I don't have my books in front of me right now so I don't remember the feats or anything, but I made a build at one point using polearms where every hit from a power attack was considered a bull rush, combined with another feat that if you bull rush a combatant into one of his allies squares you make trip attacks against both of them.

Damage output was kind of low but he could defend the party pretty well if they were getting swarmed by knocking enemies into each other and tripping two at once.

That would be Knockback [Races of Stone] + Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior]. Add Dungeoncrasher [Dungeonscape] for epic pinball experience :smalltongue:


I haven't been playing 3.5 for long so I won't have seen any builds online. just FYI

Are you opposed to any multiclassing? 'cause I personally hate how Fighters get no skillpoints and as such would multiclass some Ranger just to get Spot, Listen, Hide & Move Silently along with Survival & al.

Typewriter
2009-09-10, 03:04 PM
That sounds about right...I also remember some feats that made it so that people couldn't move past me (not even with 5 ft. adjustments) without provoking attacks of opportunity, which would bull rush them back, and possibly trip them. Specializing in AoO and with those was kind of fun. I used a group of them to hold off the party once while I was DMing as others were stealing. The party couldn't get to them to stop them because the monks (I was using monks who had the dragon compendium feat for flurrying with polearms). The party was kind of bitter, but once they took out the monks rather than ignoring them in favor of the 'real enemy' they were able to pursue without issue.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 03:10 PM
What is the regular optimization level of this group? Are they Tippy-esque wizards, Munchkin Batman wizards, Batman wizards the way they're supposed to be played, or blaster casters?

If you're seeing guys playing the game they way it was designed to be played, and you come in with a Leap Attack+Shock trooper or other Ubercharger/Ubertripper optimized build, they're not going to like you much, because to their group, you'll be powergaming. If they are playing fully optimized PCs, then by all means, listen to the replies you'll mainly get here.

I'm not entirely sure. we're currently playing a game of 4th edition which we're all about equally good at but it hasn't given me any clue as to their optimization skills. They on the other hand have been playing 3.5 for a while so while I don't know how much they optimize I imagine they're rather good at it. I don't know if any of them are going to play wizards since this campaign won't be happening any time soon. I simply like making my characters ahead of time so that I don't waste other people's time when coming to their game.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 03:12 PM
That would be Knockback [Races of Stone] + Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior].


Are you opposed to any multiclassing? 'cause I personally hate how Fighters get no skillpoints and as such would multiclass some Ranger just to get Spot, Listen, Hide & Move Silently along with Survival & al.

I don't remember saying opposed to multiclassing. However I'm not. I can multiclass and still just call the thing a fighter but being a cleric or Druid that focuses on Melee and calling it a fighter, like I said before, feels like cheating.

Eldariel
2009-09-10, 03:12 PM
Anyways, straight Core Fighter:

1. Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, (Human) Combat Expertise
2. Improved Trip
3. Rapid Shot
4. Combat Reflexes
6. Cleave, Weapon Focus
8. Weapon Specialization
9. Improved Initiative
10. Greater Weapon Focus
12. Greater Weapon Specialization, Dodge
Then you proceed to take another set of Weapon Focuses 'cause you honestly have no feats remaining. You could take Mounted Combat-chain instead of Weapon Focuses & al. if you think you'd have


Starting Dex and Str should be immense, putting all level-ups on Str. Then you want 14 Con and 13 Int.


EDIT: I must've misread what you want then. I'd suggest Horizon Tripper. Something like:

Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Ranger +2/Horizon Walker 10/whatever. Ranger first for the immense skillpoints, though Barbarian would get you slightly more HP. Archery for Ranger Combat Style, Power Attack, Improved Trip & Combat Reflexes and you're done.

And yeah, you can just call that a Fighter. It certainly does what you want better tho. Though remember, if you want to be both, a melee warrior and archer, you need good Dex & Str.

Telonius
2009-09-10, 03:23 PM
I'd suggest a level of Ranger to start. It'll give you better skill points and will save, and a favored enemy; and 1hp less than Fighter20 isn't going to make you cry by the end of your career. (By the time you reach Fighter20, you've probably already exhausted all of the really useful Fighter feats, so that won't matter as much either).

ericgrau
2009-09-10, 03:51 PM
Well that other books question is a big one. Availability of non-core feats tend to mean you only bother with core feats as pre-requisites. Assuming core only, grab the fighter tree plus w/e style you wish to pursue. Other feats are situational, so it really depends on what you want. Dodge and improved initiative are a couple so-so general purpose feats you can grab if you can't think of something else to get. Rapid shot and sometimes precise shot are must-have feats for an archer. Core-only power attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87339) isn't nearly as strong without splatbooks. People underestimate the impact of the AB you lose. It and cleave are best for mook killing. But if you already have the above feat(s) and dunno what else you want, it'll help low level damage. If you are allowed access to the power attack splatbook feats, then power attack becomes far more powerful.

For hurting mages look up combat rules on readying actions (usually ranged attacks) to disrupt spells, disarming objects (i.e., spell component pouches and holy symbols), sundering objects, grappling and concentration checks related to grappling. Also check out related feats for these, weapons that give bonuses, and reach weapons to make getting the attacks easier. But bear in mind these are easy to do against mages who haven't found some kind of immunity, so feat and weapon bonuses aren't essential.

For a melee/range mix I'd prioritize your stats in this order: str, dex, con, wis, w/e.

To avoid critical failures you could get a luckblade when you can afford one. It'll allow a reroll 1/day. Otherwise you'd need a splatbook feat.

Keld Denar
2009-09-10, 04:33 PM
Dwarves are fun. You can get into the Deepwarden PrC (Races of Stone) which makes you as tough as your Con score. Thats always fun. My prefered method of entry due to skill point reqs is Ranger1/Fighter2/Barb2, especially if you can nab the Dwarf Fighter ACF in Races of Stone. Its not critical, but it does net you Know: Dungeoneering as a class skill for levels OTHER than your Ranger level (which you need to get into Deepwarden) and nets you an extra 1ish HP for 1 level over a normal fighter level. It also gives you what is effectively weapon focus with ALL axes.

Once you pick up your required 2 levels of Deepwarden (to get the Stonewarden special ability), you can either continue taking levels in Deepwarden (not bad at 1d12 HD and some neat roguelike defensive features like Slippery Mind and Uncanny Dodge, not to mention 4 skills/level) or slip into another PrC like Occult Slayer or Pious Templar, both in Complete Warrior. Occult Slayer has some REALLY nice defensive abilities, and really fits well with the stereotypical dwarven mistrust of magic. Pious Templar, on the other hand, nets you Mettle (evasion for fort and will saves) and paladin casting. If you pull spells from Spell Compendium and Races of Stone (notably Stone Hammer and Rhino's Rush) you greatly increase your versatility. Knight's Move also jumps up your combat mobility and Righteous Fury is awesome because the Str bonus is MORAL, and thus stacks with almost every other bonus printed. Also, if you are using Complete Warrior, the Exotic Weapon Master PrC is tasty if you wield an Urgrosh or Waraxe. Wielding them in both hands, EWM's Uncanny Blow gets you 2x strength bonus to damage instead of the normal 1.5x. This adds a couple points of damage per swing that increase as your stats go up. If you use an Urgrosh, you can also get Flurry of Strikes for an extra swing on a full attack. If only attack with one end of the Urgrosh, you can get both 2x str bonus AND the extra attack per round, which adds a lot of damage per round at almost no cost.

The only feat I'd recommend above all others with this build is Steadfast Determination from the PHBII. This will bump your will save WAY up, which, combined with the Stonewarden ability from Deepwarden, makes you primarily dependant on only 2 stats, Str and Con. It requires Endurance, but then so does Deepwarden, so you can double dip there. If you do go Pious Templar, you also net a free Weapon Spec. Normally a pretty meh feat, getting it for free is bonus, and opens up Melee Weapon Mastery from PHBII which is pretty good. Best of all, you get it all with only 2 levels of Fighter!

Melee combat is all about streamlining. Lots of things have prereqs. If you take a lot of abilities with prereqs, try to overlap them. EWM, Occult Slayer, and Pious Templar all require Weapon Focus. Triple dip it. Deepwarden requires Endurance, double dip it with Steadfast Determination. ETC.

As far as weapon choice, in the end, it doesn't matter much (unless you are going for EWM). You can wield a Greatsword for 2d6, (avg 7), or if you use a Waraxe for 1d10 (avg 5.5) with at least an 18 Str (which nets you 2 extra damage with Uncanny Blow) you'll average 7.5 anyway. This is all pretty moot anyway when you stack on PA and other misc sources of damage.

If you want, I could link you a full build with level by level skill point investment and whatnot. Its pretty solid, for a non-ToB fighter. With proper itemization, your damage will be decent and your defenses (especially saves) will be top notch.

PinkysBrain
2009-09-10, 04:34 PM
With only core feats too many fighter levels don't make sense ... dip the hell out of everything for class features and saves (including monk to boost those will saves).

Early on spiked chain tripping seems the most obvious, later on you can start abusing the hell out of broken core items such as wounding weapons, spellstoring weapons, ring of telekinesis and Lifedrinker axes.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 04:35 PM
I've gotta leave the PC soon, but I'll suggest taking a look at Jack B. Quick (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869062/6_hits_to_1_Jack_B_Quick). My personal favorite style of fighter build, although there are other reasonable ways to play a Fighter.

I've always wondered why Jack B. Quick uses High Sword Low Axe instead of Knockdown for tripping after a successful hit.

Elfin
2009-09-10, 04:43 PM
They've already been mentioned, but Jack B. Quick and the Horizon Tripper are both good options.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 05:08 PM
okay. here's the list and he usually does 4d6 best 3. the comments within are his own

1. Player’s Handbook

2. Complete Adventure

3. Complete Divine

4. Complete Arcane

5. Complete Warrior (The following are to prestige classes that I am prohibiting due the excessive use of power gaming: Bear Warrior and Frenzied Berserker)

6. Races of Stone

7. Races of the Wild

8. Races of Destiny

9. Dragon Compendium

10. Spell Compendium

11. Dungeon Master’s Guide

12. Player’s Handbook 2 (you may not use the spell “Kelgor’s Fire Bolt”)

13. Miniatures Handbook

15. Arms and Equipment Guide

16. Dungeon Master’s Guide II

17. Lords of Madness

18. Expanded Psionics Handbook

19. Complete Mage

20. Magic of the Incarnum

Korivan
2009-09-10, 07:37 PM
Theres also the combat focus feats in the PH2. Nice way to get some fast healing, extra damage, a way to see hp, tremor sense, so on. The nice thing about human fighters is that they have alot of feats to blow on combat feats to upgrade from the stereotypical speedbump->meatshield->beat stick->tank.

Jalor
2009-09-10, 08:17 PM
Fighter is a terrible, terrible class. You're a one-trick pony at best, and the level of optimization required to make a Fighter playable is both tedious and likely to get you labeled a powergamer. Also, unless you are genuinely entertained by dealing large quantities of damage, Fighters are boring. You will not have fun playing, even if you deal 453276d12 damage on a charge. Because every combat will be the same; charge and kill a guy, then charge and kill another guy...

I built a Fighter once that abused Defensive Sweep, Thicket of Blades, Abberant Reach, and other AoO/reach related things. He threatened a 30ft radius, got 8+ AoOs a turn, and tripped everyone he hit. Whenever we had a battle, I would walk him into combat, smack/trip someone, and then wait the rest of the battle, rolling AoOs and full attacking on my turn. Outside combat, I did absolutely nothing. He was a Goliath with a Cha penalty and 10' long multijointed arms, so he contributed nothing. By the third session, I was doing homework during the game because it was more interesting than playing.

Do you mind being totally useless in any situation that doesn't involve face-beating? If not, try Dungeoncrasher or Zhentarim Fighter substitution levels.

Charlie Kemek
2009-09-10, 09:04 PM
you could also take levels of psysic warrior. a fighter with a few less feats and cool psionic abilities.

Thurbane
2009-09-10, 09:15 PM
With Miniatures Handbook in there, you might want to aim for the Tactical Soldier PrC...it's pretty good for Fighters, but does require burning some cross class skills, unless you want to level dip into Rogue or something.

P.S. Don't take people telling you the Fighter is awful as gospel - unless your group is very powergaming oriented, the Fighter is viable as the primary melee character. My current group (Druid, Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Monk & Fighter) are playing EttRoG, and the Dwarven Fighter fills this role very well...

rezplz
2009-09-10, 09:19 PM
There's a build I've been wanting to try for a fighter for a bit that might help you out. It's not the most optimized though, but I think at lower levels it should do fine.

The idea is basically a grappling fighter. Give him spikes on your armor, and that should be all you need as far as weapons go. For first level, take imp. unarmed strike, improved grapple, and earth's embrace (PHB2). Earth's embrace lets you do another 1d12 damage when you pin. So if you can get to your target - preferrably a caster-type such as a wizard - grapple him, and then pin him, you should be able to do 1d3+STR + 1d12+STR + 1d6+STR, if I'm reading it right. At low levels I don't think that's too bad at all.

If you have access to sandstorm I think there's a feat called scorpion strike that lets you start a grapple for free if you hit your enemy. So in a round you could hit with armor spikes for 1d6, and start a grapple and do 1d3 grapple plus 1d6 from the spikes your first round, and pin him in the second round.

Edit: Earth's embrace is from CW, not PHB2, my bad.

quick_comment
2009-09-10, 09:29 PM
Earth's embrace is a trap

rezplz
2009-09-10, 09:31 PM
rly? Since I was thinking of using it, tell me why?

Grynning
2009-09-10, 09:35 PM
IIRC, Earth's Embrace has some pretty stupid requirements to pick up.

Also, grappling is a very difficult tactic for the PC's to pull off. Many monsters have grapple checks that are nigh-impossible to reliably beat, plus you have to make tons of rolls and it's a big headache for everyone.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 09:38 PM
12. Player’s Handbook 2 (you may not use the spell “Kelgor’s Fire Bolt”)
Surely he meant Celerity?

quick_comment
2009-09-10, 09:39 PM
rly? Since I was thinking of using it, tell me why?

You cant attack while using earth's embrace. You have to remain entirely immobile

rezplz
2009-09-10, 09:39 PM
I guess it depends on how far the OP's group is thinking of going. At low levels, monster grapple modifiers aren't that great. At the worst, nothing a quick enlarge person can't fix. But if they intend to take their characters to higher levels... yeah, a grapple fighter wouldn't be the best option.

The requirements for Earth's Embrace, if I remember correctly, are STR 15, improved unarmed strike, and improved grapple. A bit ridiculous (improved unarmed strike?) but a grapple fighter would probably already have them. If the fighter is human, he could get all three feats at first level. So for a low-level build it should work.

Edit: Quick Comment: That's true, didn't quite think of that. But if there's only one person you need to disable - like a caster - then you don't really need to do any other attacking, and you should still get all of the grappling damage right?

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 10:36 PM
well I know that in the last 3.5 game they were in each person was either level 14 or 15. so not quite epic level but still pretty far.

and to Pharaoh's fist. I actually asked him a long time ago. he meant Kelgor's fire bolt.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 10:40 PM
I'm going to need a moment to digest that.

Keld Denar
2009-09-10, 10:54 PM
Might want to take a several thousand years! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarlacc)

Jalor
2009-09-10, 11:02 PM
He meant Kelgore's Fire Bolt, and he thinks Tome of Battle is broken, while allowing Celerity and Druids.

Find a new DM. Or, if you're feeling vindictive, play a Tier 1 class, ruin his game, and point out that ToB can only destroy a campaign with a very questionable interpretation of some text.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 11:10 PM
Presenting Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6790025&postcount=19) Mk3

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 11:25 PM
okay. in defense of my DM he did used to allow TOB. the problem is the rest of his players play core. I don't even know if he'll allow these. The game isn't happening for a while and believe me, If I coudl use TOB I would. It's just I don't care enoguh to convince my DM to let me play it. He's a good DM from what I've seen. The only actual problem is he's using torn asunder rules and has a body part die specifically for it. >_>

I'm sorry if you don't like my DM's rules. You're going to have to deal with them though. and base your advice off of what's available to you. not what's been forbidden.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 11:30 PM
Presenting Fistbeard Beardfist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6790025&postcount=19) Mk3

this may work. however isn't there a penalty for multiclassing that much?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 11:31 PM
Not if you don't take the dip in Lion Totem Barbarian. It's mostly optional anyways. It's not like you'll be charging much with your 30 ft movement and lack of charging feats.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-10, 11:42 PM
okay. I HAVE to ask. what made you call the class fistbeard beardfist? or did you not make it?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-10, 11:44 PM
Using your beard as a fist with which to hit people is most rad.

The build has just been updated to be more legal.

Thurbane
2009-09-11, 02:35 AM
Find a new DM. Or, if you're feeling vindictive, play a Tier 1 class, ruin his game, and point out that ToB can only destroy a campaign with a very questionable interpretation of some text.
Such useful advice... :smallannoyed:

Person_Man
2009-09-11, 09:55 AM
Fighter is actually quite a solid choice up to ECL 12ish if you know what you're doing. The keys are alternate class features (forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-906113.html) and careful feat selection.

At level 1, Fighters get the Tower Shield for free. This in itself is useful. Races of Stone also lets you trade it away for Exotic Shield Proficiency, which has several uses (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6848292). I suggest using it for a Gnome Battle Cloak, which is essentially a shield you wear on your back, which is essentially a free Animated shield. Or you can take the Extreme Shield if you want +3 AC without a To-Hit penalty (but don't care about making shield bash attacks). If you want a mounted build (which is one of your best core-ish options) then I suggest a Riding Shield.

At levels 2 and 6, Dungonscape lets you trade away feats for the Dungeoncrasher ability, which gives you massive damage when you Bull Rush an enemy into a wall or solid object. As others have opined, the easiest way to abuse this is through the Knockback feat. Check out Flaming Homer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4108954&postcount=22) and the King of Pong (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107248). If you want to be less abusive and/or don't want to be a Goliath, then I suggest you be a Raptorian or Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) for free flight (though it doesn't kick in until ECL 12). This lets you move above enemies, so that you can Bull Rush them into the floor. You can also get free Bull Rush attempts from the Shield of the Severed Hand (Complete Divine pg 102 or MIC) and/or Brutal Surge weapons (MIC). It's also worth mentioning that Dungeoncrasher damage is so high that even a single mundane Bull Rush per turn can kill most enemies.

A nifty web ad on (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) gives you various buffs to your ability to Demoralize. The most important kicks in at 11th level, which lets you Demoralize as a Swift Action. This can be a powerful tool (http://boards-test-dev.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-911167), especially when combined with the Imperious Command feat (Drow of the Underdark) which makes Demoralized enemies Cower (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cowering).

Now that you have that down, it's time to figure out strong feat, equipment, and tactical choices.

For damage, this means some combination of Dungoencrasher, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Spirited Charge, Shock Trooper, Headlong Rush, Battle Jump, Valorous Weapon, and anything else that either multiplies damage without requiring a critical hit.
Find a way to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358) by ECL 11ish. There are many ways to do this without a Barbarian dip.
For battlefield control, you have many options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5858387&postcount=10). Basically you want something to deal with mooks, and something to deal with boss enemies. If you're going with a Dungeoncrasher build, then your biggest weakness is going to be enemies who are physically big and strong that can't easily be pushed around. I suggest diversifying with Fear (detailed above), and shop around for a Daze effect from a magic item, Shield Slam, Anvil of Thunder, or Boomerang Daze.
Ask your friends for buffs. Seriously. There's no reason to dip into Cleric or buy expensive wands or whatnot. Just ask the other casters to help you out.
Choose powerful magic items. There's lists all over the boards. I could rattle off my favorites here, but I'm not sure how abusive you want to get.

quick_comment
2009-09-11, 09:56 AM
On dragonborn/raptorean. There is no reason not to be a dragonborn raptoran. You keep your raptorean wings, so you can choose another draconic aspect.

Ozymandias9
2009-09-11, 10:31 AM
I'm looking for advice for a fighter. My DM has forbidden the use of ToB (I have two different DMs.) because it will be overpowered compared to the others playing core classes. I'm not capable of changing his mind and I don't really care. all I want is good advice for a fighter. I should also mention that he uses the rules from "torn asunder." so if you know of anything that gets rid of critical failures that'd be nice. this game isn't starting any time soon so I don't have stats. I want to play a fighter who's good at melee and using bows. I'm thinking of playing a human but if there's a better race for fighters please suggest it. no half orcs.

If your DM is amiable, you might suggest using the UA Generic Warrior in place of a Fighter. Mixing the generics with with the standard classes is generally advised against, but in this case you're essentially just adding some other classes class abilities as options to your fighter feat options. The class itself is a bit more balanced relative to other melee classes. The biggest concern is stepping on other people's toes if they are really keen on playing a rogue in the game and will get insulted if your fighter gets their sneak attack, etc.