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View Full Version : Magic Breaks [3.5/3.0]



alchemyprime
2009-09-10, 02:49 PM
Okay. Let's say I'm some big wig executive. I have billions of dollars (assume 1gp=US$1) and I can give you whatever items you need. For reasons unknown, you can't stage a violent coup of the company, and it's not publicly traded.

I want you to use whatever items you can to make marvels no one can expect. Weapons, household commodities, utilities. Whatever. What are the best ways to break magic items? (Ie. the Ring gate water cannon thing, the rail gun, etc?)

Waargh!
2009-09-10, 03:04 PM
Can you rephrase a bit? What do you mean "break" magic items?

Tshern
2009-09-10, 03:08 PM
Candle of Invocation, call an Efreet, get infinite Wishes. Buy beer with the rest of the money you've got.

Doc Roc
2009-09-10, 03:15 PM
<- Doc Roc


Tshern is right.

Typewriter
2009-09-10, 03:16 PM
Things that no one would expect? Do you mean in the world we live in, what ways could you use magic items to do all kinds of crazy awesome things?

Ring gates.

Need to get water to dehydrated nations? A series of ring gates connected throughout the land getting water from point a to point B. Same thing with oil. Get oil from alaska without having to have miles and miles of pipes.

You have several sets of ring gates:
A1 is at the 'source' of whatever you want

A2 and B1 are linked together 95 miles away in the direction of the destination

B2 and C1 are linked together 95 miles away in the direction of the destination

Rinse and repeat until you have whatever you want. If the 100 lb. limit per day is too limiting, set up multiple of these chain gates.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-10, 03:17 PM
Candle of Invocation, call an Efreet, get infinite Wishes. Buy beer with the rest of the money you've got.

Sadly, that wins.

alchemyprime
2009-09-10, 04:24 PM
In world or in game. Either way. I want things like power generators, super weapons and the like.

And from now on, Reality Revision, Miracle, Wish and Mindrape are off limits.

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-10, 04:29 PM
In world or in game. Either way. I want things like power generators, super weapons and the like.

And from now on, Reality Revision, Miracle, Wish and Mindrape are off limits.

Wall of Iron. Flesh to Salt+Commoner who has the Infested With Chickens flaw. There's too many ways for a caster to have infinite WBL, and the non-casters with UMD are going to be right behind them.

You essentially have to ban magic items that duplicate spell effects entirely.

Keld Denar
2009-09-10, 05:00 PM
/waves at Tshern (almost didn't recognize you without your Gleemax Avatar)
I'm Wyvernhand from there. /wave

Anything that grants teleportation would be pretty redicuous. Blink into a bank vault, grab cash, blink out. One pair of Boots of Big Stepping would pay for themselves in a single day, everything past that is pure profit!

Immovable Rods. $1m will get you 200 of them. Using a helecopter such as the ones employed by Anderson Skycrane, you could easily create a foundation of Immovable Rods to secure load bearing trusses which would serve as the foundation of your sky-mounted skyscraper. You don't have to be the tallest building in the world when you are starting a mile+ above the ground. Probably not the best investment, but wins with coolness points (at least in my book!)

Starbuck_II
2009-09-10, 05:04 PM
/waves at Tshern (almost didn't recognize you without your Gleemax Avatar)
I'm Wyvernhand from there. /wave

Anything that grants teleportation would be pretty redicuous. Blink into a bank vault, grab cash, blink out. One pair of Boots of Big Stepping would pay for themselves in a single day, everything past that is pure profit!


Banks would just build physical energy containers nearby wouldn't they? Since they stop you from teleporting.



Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.


Granted, people overlook this so Banks might too.

Doc Roc
2009-09-10, 05:07 PM
Um, so you might like the Theoretical Physics Thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of?num=10&pg=1). On Gleemax. If you like this stuff.

Korivan
2009-09-10, 05:08 PM
Wall of Iron. Flesh to Salt+Commoner who has the Infested With Chickens flaw. There's too many ways for a caster to have infinite WBL, and the non-casters with UMD are going to be right behind them.

You essentially have to ban magic items that duplicate spell effects entirely.

Ok, now I've had it...where the heck is Infested With Chicken Flaw from?

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-10, 05:19 PM
Ok, now I've had it...where the heck is Infested With Chicken Flaw from?

Dragon Magazine.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-10, 05:21 PM
Basically, you have a certain chance every time you try to draw something to draw a chicken instead. Yes, there are infinite chickens possible.

Stegyre
2009-09-10, 05:44 PM
Personally, I'll settle for breaking the game at a much smaller scale. Here are some simple magic item effects that are way under-priced by formula:

1. The Sanctuary amulet: continuous (2,000) * SL (1) * CL (1) * duration (4) = 8,000. The subject is under the continuous effect of a Sanctuary spell until he makes an attack, whereupon the effect immediately ends. The effect may be reactivated with a standard action. Great for sentries and scouts, as well as inhibiting assassination attempts.

2. Cloak of Power Damp: command thought (1,800) * PL (2) * ML (3) = 10,800. As an immediate action, activate this cloak to gain the benefit of the Power Damp power: variable effects of spells, powers, and spell-like effects are minimized against the target. While your rogue buddy with evasion takes no damage from that 10d6 fireball on a reflex save, she takes an average of 35 when she fails. You? 10 points, max.

3. Animal Affinity bracers: command thought (1,800) * PL (2) * ML (4) = 14,400. With a command thought, a character may activate the effects of Animal Affinity power: +4 to any one attribute. Although there is no limit to the number of times this power may be activated, only one manifestation may be in effect at a time. Ifa character activates a new manifestation, an existing manifestation immediately terminates. (Ordinarily, an item granting a +4 attribute bonus to one attribute would set you back 16,000. We laugh at such unmunchkinly weakness as we enhance any one of six attributes whenever we want.)

4. Circlet of Divine Insight: on demand (1,800) * SL (2) * CL (6) = 21,600. Skill levels are no problem with this handy-dandy, activate-it-and-get-a-free-+11-to-a-skill-check item! Combine with Jack of All Trades or Elf Dilletante feats to be able to make a competent skill check on any skill, including those obscure knowledge skills that no one want to invest points in. (And this is just at CL 6 -- no reason, but cost, why we couldn't go higher.)

5. Shirt of Protection from _____: continuous (2,000) * SL (1) * CL (1) * duration (2) = 4,000. The +2 AC deflection bonus and +2 save bonuses are really just gravy. We made this item to give you permanent protection from mind controlling effects! That being said, if you'd like to expand those other protections, get the plaid version, that includes all four spells in this family. (These would be multiple similar abilities, so the second would add 3,000 and the last two 2,000 each; total cost: 11,000.) Now, you've got some protection against just about anything that isn't a true-neutral animal.

6. Broach of Improvisation: command word (1,800) * SL (1) * CL (6) = 10,800. Why let bards have all the fun? Activate this item, whenever you want, to create a temporary pool of CL*2 (12, in this version) luck bonus points, which may be applied in amounts up to 1/2 CL (3, this version) to any attack roll, skill check or ability check.

7. Vest of Resurgence: on demand (1,800) * SL (1) * CL (1) = 1,800. Maybe you can't put out the sun, but you can at least get your own second chance to end an on-going spell effect, SLA, or supernatural ability, without having to spend a couple of feats to get Iron Heart Surge.

8. For the archer in your party, may we offer the Hunter's Mercy long bow? Use activated (2,000) * SL (1) * CL (1) * duration (4) = 8,000. Experience the joy of every ranged attack an automatic critical.

All of these were spell effects that I thought, "Wow! This would be great as a continuous or on-demand item!" Then did the math and realized how imbalancing they'd be for the cost. The item creation table and instructions actually contain rules to constrain many of these: if a +3 weapon bonus enhancement costs 18,000, no one should be allowing the creation of a much more versatile item that can give a +3 bonus to any attack, skill or ability roll for only 10,800. But it made for an interesting thought exercise in the challenge of balancing new spell-effect items.

Waargh!
2009-09-11, 05:45 AM
Built a city covering it with items that generate antimaic fields. Hide and secure them well. Then invite the rest people and ask them to demonstrate their super expensive magical devices

Yora
2009-09-11, 06:20 AM
Amulets of Fire Resistance 5 for Firefighters. Expensive, but definately worth it.

Endure Elements for scientists in hot or cold environment.

Potion of Remove Disease. Expensive but much cheaper than constant mediaction for 20 or 30 years.

Kulture
2009-09-11, 12:42 PM
using the appropriate wish/miracle spell, draw a symbol of death/pain/insanity/etc on the planet's moon.
Have it trigger only to individuals who speak the language of the enemy country in a war out loud.

Instant super weapon genocide.

Especially on a nocturnal species.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-09-12, 02:34 AM
<- Doc Roc
Tshern is right.

/waves at Tshern (almost didn't recognize you without your Gleemax Avatar)
I'm Wyvernhand from there. /waveArg people. Atleast have a similar sounding name!

jseah
2009-09-12, 02:49 AM
Permanent Wall of Force
- Not an item, but similar enough. Use it as foundations.

All those theoretical physics thing with the earlier link.

Apart from that:
The spoon that creates food is very useful.

Ring of sustenance is also useful (for the 2 hours sleep)

Control Weather... I think there's an orb somewhere which does that.

Custom items:
Fountain of Health, applies regeneration (as spell) on all who drink from it
- My calculations indicate it should cost a few hundred thousand

Some coffin that true resurrects anything placed in it?
- This one is in the millions.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-09-12, 03:16 AM
8. For the archer in your party, may we offer the Hunter's Mercy long bow? Use activated (2,000) * SL (1) * CL (1) * duration (4) = 8,000. Experience the joy of every ranged attack an automatic critical.

All of these were spell effects that I thought, "Wow! This would be great as a continuous or on-demand item!" Then did the math and realized how imbalancing they'd be for the cost. The item creation table and instructions actually contain rules to constrain many of these: if a +3 weapon bonus enhancement costs 18,000, no one should be allowing the creation of a much more versatile item that can give a +3 bonus to any attack, skill or ability roll for only 10,800. But it made for an interesting thought exercise in the challenge of balancing new spell-effect items.Yes custom items are broken. But please explain number 8 :)

Seffbasilisk
2009-09-12, 03:25 AM
I always liked the one where you research a continual flame spell that produces heat, put it inside an adamantine tank, with a Decanter of Endless Water feeding it through a pressure valve.

I got *clong clong hisss* steam heat.

oxinabox
2009-09-12, 04:53 AM
Can we break a record for max damage in a single shot using a Rod of Many Wands?
3*Harm=450 damage, will save for half
3*Mass Inflict critical wounds=3*(4d8+40)=12d8+120 to 20 targets ,save fort half
EDIT: i think Mass critical wounds may go over budget, each wand was a assuemd to be made by CL 40.
then again we could use money to boost the wand creaters caster lvl

Set
2009-09-12, 08:48 AM
Are rare minerals still worth anything in this theoretical world? A Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals allows you to send a Huge gumby earth gliding around under the ground and hauling out as much gold, platinum, diamond, etc. as it can carry.

Decanter of Endless Water, turned upside down and suspended over a waterwheel. Endless mechanical energy. If you have any use for such. Have the wheel turn a turbine, and it becomes endless electrical energy. Yay, green technology! Although all of the waste water could be annoying...

Sphere of Annhilation. Buh-bye waste. Nuclear, biological, chemical, annoying reality show contestants, people who don't pay their waste removal fee on time? The Sphere does not discriminate.

An Eternal Wand of any of dozens of spells could make for some radical stuff.

mikethepoor
2009-09-12, 09:35 AM
Where can these rules for custom magic item prices be found?

Stegyre
2009-09-12, 06:58 PM
Yes custom items are broken. But please explain number 8 :)
Do you mean why do I think it is broken or how is it supposed to work?

The Hunter's Mercy spell (ranger SL 1) gives you an automatic critical on your first bow hit in a round. Because of the minimal spell level and the lack of any need for a high caster level, this is a spell that, by the formula, can be added to an item as a use-activated effect (activated every time you fire your bow) for a fairly nominal sum. By WBL, that's within a 5th level character's reach. It can also be created by a 5th level character (Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat) for half the market price. Not bad for being able to do triple damage on every bow hit at that level.

sofawall
2009-09-12, 07:03 PM
Arg people. Atleast have a similar sounding name!

Mine is identical :P

I always use this name. If you google Sofawall, you are unlikely to find one that isn't me.

Very unlikely.

GoC
2009-09-12, 08:37 PM
Items that cast teleportation circle+permanency at will.
The infamous item of wish to make any inexpensive item you want.
Continuous shapechange.
Fabricate+any set of suitable skill-boosting items.
Mind reading.
Zone of truth.
Sanctify the wicked.
Dominate.

oxinabox
2009-09-12, 09:16 PM
heh I was just looking at the maths, and assuming we can overcome SR 32.
(wich might prove to be a large problem)
using Rod Many Wands 3xHarm, we can kill the Tarrasque in 3~4 rounds

Siosilvar
2009-09-12, 09:36 PM
Yeah, good luck putting a 6th level spell into a wand, which has a maximum level of 4th.

A wondrous item would work, though.

CockroachTeaParty
2009-09-12, 11:26 PM
Oh god, I just read way too much of that theoretical physics thread. My brain... my poor poor brain.

Draz74
2009-09-13, 01:33 AM
Did everybody forget about the Emperor Tippy Classic? Trap of Create Food and Water, automatic-reset. Combine with Trap of Prestidigitation (for taste) and Trap of Cure Light Wounds ... voila. Any ordinary village will now swear fealty and allegiance to you, and be grateful for the opportunity.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-09-13, 02:04 AM
Can we break a record for max damage in a single shot using a Rod of Many Wands?
3*Harm=450 damage, will save for half
3*Mass Inflict critical wounds=3*(4d8+40)=12d8+120 to 20 targets ,save fort half
EDIT: i think Mass critical wounds may go over budget, each wand was a assuemd to be made by CL 40.
then again we could use money to boost the wand creaters caster lvl

Max damage in a single shot record is somewhere in the millions, if not billions. Heck, I even got over 450 with my 6th level warblade!