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alexthemad
2009-09-10, 04:14 PM
Can I someone please explain Psicrystals to me? I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around them for some reason. I understand they are similar to a wiz's familiar, but thats as far as it goes. I am making a telepath9, and I am wondering if it is worth it for me to get the Psicrystal feats. Thanks for any and all help.

vampire2948
2009-09-10, 04:22 PM
They're as useful as a familiar, basically.

With a couple of differences:

They can all fly at at certain level.
You can store power points in them.
There're some interesting feats, like extra psicrystals, and ones that let your crystal give more bonuses.

They're also not living, and can do some interesting things due to that.


I like 'em.. much more than familiars.

KillianHawkeye
2009-09-10, 06:12 PM
You can store power points in them.

Only metaminds can do that.

Raiki
2009-09-10, 06:32 PM
They're actually still way more useful than familiars, however.

The feat "Psicrystal Containment" lets you store an extra Psionic Focus in your psicrystal. Which if you know anything about metapsionic feats should let you know how valuable they really are.

~R~

Eldariel
2009-09-10, 06:42 PM
There are lots of things you can do with them, really. Due to Psionics offering Vigor and Share Pain, they can be sexcellent HP banks. Also, obvious implications of Metamorphosis, though I do not condone such a blatant rapage of rules (using Metamorphosis, Polymorph or their kindred). But yeah, stuff that affects other characters in general tends to be exceedingly useful with them. And then there's the fact that by RAW they gain feats...

Lamech
2009-09-10, 06:49 PM
They get HD and therefore feats. So they can say get skill focus. Or leadership.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-10, 07:38 PM
Can I someone please explain Psicrystals to me? I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around them for some reason. I understand they are similar to a wiz's familiar, but thats as far as it goes. I am making a telepath9, and I am wondering if it is worth it for me to get the Psicrystal feats. Thanks for any and all help.

They are more like a merger of Familiar and Animal Companion.
They use Master's Hp, but their own HD (equal to your number).
This different than Familisar because Familiar never gain HD only hps (although familiars fake HD for stuff like sleep).

They have Construct BAB (as they are Constructs).


Technically, they gain feats since they gain HD. But it is never mentioned whether they do or not by the books.

Gralamin
2009-09-10, 07:59 PM
Technically, they gain feats since they gain HD. But it is never mentioned whether they do or not by the books.

Curmudgeon and I had a big argument of this. I concluded they do, he concluded they don't, from the same RAW. I'd call it unclear and ask your DM.

Lamech
2009-09-10, 10:27 PM
It a horrible idea IMO to have them gain feats. I just have a tendency to point out broken stuff.

Zaq
2009-09-10, 10:32 PM
It a horrible idea IMO to have them gain feats. I just have a tendency to point out broken stuff.

Animal Companions gain feats.

Granted, ACs are one reason of many why Druids are so gorram overpowered, but technically there's precedent for "extra character-type thing gets feats."

If you rule that Psicrystals do indeed get feats, I recommend taking feats that offer tastes of alternate power systems. Like Shape Soulmeld, Martial Study, or Bind Vestige.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-10, 11:13 PM
Curmudgeon and I had a big argument of this. I concluded they do, he concluded they don't, from the same RAW. I'd call it unclear and ask your DM.What's the debate? Everything with HD has feats at a rate of at least 1+1 per 3 levels unless there is something specifically saying they don't. And I can't think of anything in the Psicrystal entry saying they don't gain feats.

alexthemad
2009-09-11, 10:30 AM
Wow, ok. So it seems that they are worth the feat slots.

Now I still need to make the Psicrystal. I have never played a character with a familiar or an animal companion, so...can I get some help in that regard. How do I go about making a Psicrystal for a level 9 Psion/Telepath. Just in case its needed the character has these feats.

Overchannel, Talented, Psicrystal Affinity, Improved Psicrystal, Quicken Power, and Expanded Knowledge.

Meat Shield
2009-09-11, 10:55 AM
I would lose Improved Psicrystal and change it for Psicrystal Containment, as I do not think the crystal can get that feat - the text says you store your psi focus in the crystal, so unless the crystal has its own psi crystal that won't work.

I use my psi crystals for scouting and battle telepathy mostly, as my psions are squishy. Remember that you can talk to them from a mile away telepathically as they relate what is going on around them, and they can fly by that point. So essentially you get a real time recon drone like the US Air Force.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-11, 10:57 AM
I would lose Improved Psicrystal and change it for Psicrystal Containment, as I do not think the crystal can get that feat - the text says you store your psi focus in the crystal, so unless the crystal has its own psi crystal that won't work.

I use my psi crystals for scouting and battle telepathy mostly, as my psions are squishy. Remember that you can talk to them from a mile away telepathically as they relate what is going on around them, and they can fly by that point. So essentially you get a real time recon drone like the US Air Force.

Agreed, only becaue Psicrystals aren't psionic (yes they can't make a Psionic focus). THey can hold yours with Containment though.

deuxhero
2009-09-11, 11:01 AM
One point I haven't seen mentioned is that Psicrystals actually get hit dice (but still have hit points equal to half yours) while familers only get hit points, giving them feats and allowing stats based on Hit Dice to work on them decently.

Also of note is that ANY source of manifester levels stacks for them (Psion 5/Psychic warrior 5 is level 10 for his psycrystal. Psion 5/fighter 5 is level 5.)

Dragonmuncher
2009-09-11, 11:07 AM
One point I haven't seen mentioned is that Psicrystals actually get hit dice (but still have hit points equal to half yours) while familers only get hit points, giving them feats and allowing stats based on Hit Dice to work on them decently.

Also of note is that ANY source of manifester levels stacks for them (Psion 5/Psychic warrior 5 is level 10 for his psycrystal. Psion 5/fighter 5 is level 5.)

Don't think that's true:


A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s. Psicrystal. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)

Doc Roc
2009-09-11, 11:09 AM
Dragonmuncher is correct. They get feats. You can psychic reformation them. These feats can be expanded knowledge.
Feat Leech (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Feat_Leech)

deuxhero
2009-09-11, 11:11 AM
Don't think that's true:



You just posted what I was referring to (for the first part) "Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder)"

Ok, stand corrected on the second part (but Psion/Wilder stack while Sorc/Wiz don't is notable)

Doc Roc
2009-09-11, 11:16 AM
{Carrying an idiot ball, sorry. scrubbed}

Kylarra
2009-09-11, 11:20 AM
Sorc/wiz could stack if you traded out your familiar for something and used the obtain familiar feat.

Myrmex
2009-09-11, 12:22 PM
There's a power, think it's in telepathy, that lets your psicrystal take over concentrating on something for you. Called Solicit Psicrystal, I think.

It can be handy on those powers you want to fully augment for damage or whatever, and not have to worry about paying extra for a longer duration.

Or for manifesting energy current and having your psicrystal do 9d6 damage (or more) every round to two creatures.


Dragonmuncher is correct. They get feats. You can psychic reformation them. These feats can be expanded knowledge.
Feat Leech (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Feat_Leech)

Psychic Reformation is mind affecting, and your psicrystal is a construct.

Doc Roc
2009-09-11, 12:23 PM
It is solicit psicrystal. It's VERY powerful, often considered a must-have.

alexthemad
2009-09-11, 12:29 PM
So how do I figure out how many feats the Psicrystal has at this point? The character is starting at level 9, and I took Psicrystal Affinity as my first Feat.

Myrmex
2009-09-11, 12:34 PM
So how do I figure out how many feats the Psicrystal has at this point? The character is starting at level 9, and I took Psicrystal Affinity as my first Feat.

The psicrystal has as many HD as you do, and creatures gain (HD/3)+1 feats, or 1 feat plus one more feat for every three levels. Your psicrystal has 4 feats.

Dragonmuncher
2009-09-11, 12:37 PM
You just posted what I was referring to (for the first part) "Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder)"

Ok, stand corrected on the second part (but Psion/Wilder stack while Sorc/Wiz don't is notable)

Sorry, sloppy quoting on my part. The Hit Dice thing was correct- I was just disputing which levels count for psicrystals.

Doc Roc
2009-09-11, 12:42 PM
Psychic Reformation is mind affecting, and your psicrystal is a construct.

There's a couple of solid ways around that.

Myrmex
2009-09-11, 12:50 PM
There's a couple of solid ways around that.

You advice did not include them, though.

Doc Roc
2009-09-11, 01:24 PM
You advice did not include them, though.

You are correct. :)

Share Power ->Metamorphosis -> Psi Ref

alexthemad
2009-09-12, 03:14 PM
Thanks for all the help! I have a much better understanding now.

shadow_archmagi
2009-09-12, 03:35 PM
Have your psicrystal take feats to obtain a psicrystal, and so on. Each additional psicrystal will have 3 feats+obtain psicrystal

you now have a massive bank from which to Feat Leech.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-12, 04:00 PM
Have your psicrystal take feats to obtain a psicrystal, and so on. Each additional psicrystal will have 3 feats+obtain psicrystal

you now have a massive bank from which to Feat Leech.

Your psicrystal needs to have a manifester level to obtain a Psicrystal. Show me that first.

shadow_archmagi
2009-09-12, 04:06 PM
Your psicrystal needs to have a manifester level to obtain a Psicrystal. Show me that first.

ah nuts I knew there was a flaw in my plan somewhere

Doc Roc
2009-09-12, 04:10 PM
Your psicrystal needs to have a manifester level to obtain a Psicrystal. Show me that first.

share powers->metamorphosis (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metamorphosis)->Mind Seed (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mind_Seed)

It technically turns back into your psicrystal when metamorphosis expires, but mind seed is instantaneous, so it becomes.... a.... little bitty.... you.

shadow_archmagi
2009-09-12, 04:23 PM
It technically turns back into your psicrystal when metamorphosis expires, but mind seed is instantaneous, so it becomes.... a.... little bitty.... you.

1. Use metamorphosis+mind seed to create tiny-you psicrystals
2. Amass psicrystal army
3. Use pile of crystals to make PsiCrystal Golem
4. ???

Mewtarthio
2009-09-12, 05:37 PM
1. Use metamorphosis+mind seed to create tiny-you psicrystals
2. Amass psicrystal army
3. Use pile of crystals to make PsiCrystal Golem
4. ???

For added fun, do this as a thrallherd.