Any ideas for the worst PC ever?

[Korivan]

Bear with me, I gotta give you a background on this cause its a pretty awful idea. I have this friend whos a bit of a bragart...Thinks every idea he has is briliant, game breaking, etc. You know the type, cheats a bit, trys to break the economy, every month tries to build medival tanks out of wagons, ya da ya da, the list goes on. Anyways, a couple of months ago he finally switched from 2nd edition to 3rd edition and joined our games. low and behold, we seeing it all again. I swear he must have read every "dirty trick" handbook out there.

But now, I have a chance to make him put his money where his mouth is. He claims he can build anything. Anything. You got an idea, no matter how absurb, he can build it. So my challange is for the next campaign, he takes whatever I build him for a 1st level character, and makes it work. So I made the following (I'm not dming this mess, so I don't care what he gets stuck with)...

Half-elf Commoner
str 12
dex 11
con 11
int 10
wis 9
cha 7

Traits: Quick (for a +10 land speed but -1 hp per dice to minimum 0)
Flaws: Unreactive (for a -6 initiative) Bonus feat goes for skill focus craft: pottery.
Frail (for a -1 hp per dice to a minimum of 0) Bonus feat goes for skill focus craft: basketweaving.

Any suggestions to really hamper this build?

[Eldariel]

Less con. Toss the 7 in Con or something. 1 HP per level is fun.

[Rixx]

Make him a Small race, so being faster puts him at the level of most Medium creatures' speed.

[SoD]

Any suggestions to really hamper this build?

Vow of Poverty.

Also, for the bonus feat, instead of skill focus (pottery) give him skill focus (architecture and engineering), forgery, speak language, swim, decipher script, or appraise. Something useless and cross class.

[Elfin]

Yea, I'd say the 7 should be in Con.
Str should be 9.
Cha 12.
The rest are the 10/11s.

Other than that, this is a pretty good build.

Oh, and the one simple weapon he's proficient with could be his unarmed strike.
EDIT:True, VoP will really make this shine. :smallbiggrin:

[Tiki Snakes]

Vow of Poverty.

Young, non-dragonwrought Kobold Vow of Poverty Fighter. Put highest scores in strength and con, low scores in the mentals and/or dexterity.

[edit] with the above stats, that'd be something like;

STR 8
CON 9
DEX 9
INT 9
WIS 10
CHA 11

[Jalor]

Put the 7 in Con, the 12 in Wis, and the 9 in Str, with the 11 as Cha.

[Dienekes]

Truenamer no ranks in the skill negative intelligence and whatever stat is necessary for truenaming.

[quick_comment]

Young, non-dragonwrought Kobold Vow of Poverty Fighter. Put highest scores in strength and con, low scores in the mentals and/or dexterity.

I think a venerable, nondragonwrought would be worse. Sure you have more skills, but you are even weaker and can die at any moment of old age.

[Faleldir]

Play a Gnome Warlock with the Arcane Conundrum flaw.

EDIT: Yes, I made a typo. Screw you.

[Milskidasith]

Are you sure he didn't mean "I can take anything you build that it is reasonably possible to be competent in?" I mean, with that build, you start with HP of zero at first level (with 7 in con).

You are a stillborn character. How horrible.

[Tiki Snakes]

Are you sure he didn't mean "I can take anything you build that it is reasonably possible to be competent in?" I mean, with that build, you start with HP of zero at first level (with 7 in con).

You are a stillborn character. How horrible.

No, he is heavily disabled. Some kind of congenital weakness. He can still take an action each round, long as it's not too strenuous, else he passes out and needs medical attention.

[Vortling]

Are you starting at level 1? Because even the stuff you've got going there can be turned around pretty fast if your friend gets to run with the character after level 1?

[Kylarra]

if you use his bonus feats for diehard and endurance, he can take 9 standard actions before being in danger of dying from his own actions.

[Tiki Snakes]

Are you starting at level 1? Because even the stuff you've got going there can be turned around pretty fast if your friend gets to run with the character after level 1?

Re: Kobold builds (venerable or otherwise) what's he going to do, give up a point of hp permenantly to get a spell? :)

(If you are particularly cruel, kobold venerable non-dragonwrought Commoner, same stats as in the fighter version above)


[edit]
if you use his bonus feats for diehard and endurance, he can take 9 standard actions before being in danger of dying from his own actions.

Correction, if HE takes those feats when he has leveled enough to do so, then he can take 9 standard actions before being in danger of dying from his own actions. ;)

[Milskidasith]

Ok, fine, he's got one action a round maximum and no competence in anything at all. As I said, there's a difference between saying "I can take anything you do and make it better" and "I can break the game with a commoner that's disabled for life at level 1 and has scores lower than the nonelite array."

[aje8]

I think a venerable, nondragonwrought would be worse. Sure you have more skills, but you are even weaker and can die at any moment of old age.
This. Also, be sure his con is the 7 base. And take Flaw:Pathetic: Con and Frail.

Con of 7 base. -3 age, -2 from flaw: pathetic: con, -2 racial -1 hp per level via frail.

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot kobold racial.

Hey look, his base con is 0 and he gets -1 hp per level. Yeah.... he starts dead.

[Tiki Snakes]

Ok, fine, he's got one action a round maximum and no competence in anything at all. As I said, there's a difference between saying "I can take anything you do and make it better" and "I can break the game with a commoner that's disabled for life at level 1 and has scores lower than the nonelite array."

"You got an idea, no matter how absurb, he can build it. So my challange is for the next campaign, he takes whatever I build him for a 1st level character, and makes it work."

[Starbuck_II]

Having 1 level in Blighter?

[Kylarra]

This. Also, be sure his con is the 7 base. And take Flaw:Pathetic: Con and Frail.

Con of 7 base. -3 age, -2 from flaw: pathetic: con, -1 hp per level via frail.

Hey look, his base con is 2 and he gets -1 hp per level. Yeah.... he starts dead.it bottoms off at 0, also aging penalties are cumulative so that's 7-6 for 1.

If you put the 9 in strength or dex and then take pathetic for that one, they've got a 1 there too.

[aje8]

it bottoms off at 0.
Ok, technicaly he starts at 0 health. But even if he takes a d12 hit die class and rolls max he still has no health. At all.

[Milskidasith]

Hell, he could *still* break this...

One summoning of Pazuzu later...

[Tiki Snakes]

There we go, he gets an entire HP. He can take the Draconic Rite of passage and get a 1/day SU 1st level spell! Perfectly valid.

Also all he'd need, given the passing out upon using it, with his 0hp maximum, and all.

[Kylarra]

Hell, he could *still* break this...

One summoning of Pazuzu later...Assuming we're enforcing skill checks, we just don't give him any ranks in any knowledge skills, so he still needs to survive until level 2 in order to be able to even know about pazuzu

[aje8]

Hell, he could *still* break this...

One summoning of Pazuzu later...

You're right, any way to give him no ability to talk?

[Pika...]

Vow of Poverty.

Also, for the bonus feat, instead of skill focus (pottery) give him skill focus (architecture and engineering), forgery, speak language, swim, decipher script, or appraise. Something useless and cross class.

Hey, I regularly take Speak Language. :smallconfused:



Oh, and what about taking the half-human variant of the half-elf from the DMG?

[Milskidasith]

Assuming we're enforcing skill checks, we just don't give him any ranks in any knowledge skills, so he still needs to survive until level 2 in order to be able to even know about pazuzu

Then he just travels back in time and tells himself about it when he does become pun pun.

[aje8]

Isn't there a Sacred Vow: Vow of Silence? Have him take that along with Vop.

Also: Human could actually be a really bad race. A feat spent on something negative is worse than nothing.

[Kylarra]

No see, if he was pun-pun he'd have a high enough wisdom to prevent himself from locking in a causality loop.

[Tiki Snakes]

He's taken a Vow of Poverty already. How does he get a magic candle? :)

[Milskidasith]

Isn't there a Sacred Vow: Vow of Silence? Have him take that along with Vop.

Also: Human could actually be a really bad race. A feat spent on something negative is worse than nothing.

The vows can be broken, you just lose the benefit. Also, Pun Pun, with his infinite wisdom, could find a way to get out of a causualty loop with his epic spellcasting. In every class with an epic progression.

Or they could use the Achron style time travel and have time resolve itself in "waves" that took the past into the future and fixed it based on that.

[Kylarra]

I guess we can't really fault punpun for making himself out of this.

[teh_meh]

Give him an addiction to Luhix (page 43 of BoVD) every day he goes with out the drug he takes the following damage 1d8 dex 1d8 wis 1d6 con and 1d6 str. with his ZERO CON!!!! he will surely die... :smallsmile:

[Milskidasith]

It doesn't take a day to become punpun.

[teh_meh]

Touche


(AHHHH MY MESSAGE WAS TOO SHORT!!!)

[PirateMonk]

Hell, he could *still* break this...

One summoning of Pazuzu later...

Isn't it impossible for CE characters to invoke Pazuzu? He could change alignment, I suppose, depending on the DM.

[Milskidasith]

Also, I would not fault this guy for becoming punpun. If you took his "build the most absurdly bad character ever and I could still break it" idea to the point where he's got 0 HP at first level, becoming pun pun is a perfectly reasonable way to "build" from that character.

[teh_meh]

Just read luhix. if he takes the drug and fails a Dc 25 fort save he takes 1 damage to all ability scores... :smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue:

[aje8]

Um.........


Also, I would not fault this guy for becoming punpun. If you took his "build the most absurdly bad character ever and I could still break it" idea to the point where he's got 0 HP at first level, becoming pun pun is a perfectly reasonable way to "build" from that character.
Yeah, but if he did without pun-pun? That would be cool.

Issues with him becoming Pun-Pun: He's a CE Commoner. Why would Pazuzu listen to such a person?

[teh_meh]

Pazzuzu has no life?? :smalltongue:

[Nerocite]

Pazzuzu has no life?? :smalltongue:

BLASPHEMY!

[Tiki Snakes]

Wiki says that he will aid anyone of Good Alignment.

So, keep the Kobold at it's racial norm, and bob's your uncle.

[Tyndmyr]

Isn't there a Sacred Vow: Vow of Silence? Have him take that along with Vop.

Also: Human could actually be a really bad race. A feat spent on something negative is worse than nothing.

See also, Vow of nonviolence(or something similar, BoED). Hard to level up without experience.

[quick_comment]

Even if he starts CE, its really easy for him to reform and become LG

[teh_meh]

(if he lives that long... considering he dies if he does, or doesent take his addiction :smalltongue:)

[teh_meh]

oh yeah, HOW THE HELL IS THIS GUY DOING EVIL!?!??!? HE TOOK VOW OF NON-VIOLENCE VOW OF SILENCE AND VOW OF POVERTY!!!! IS HE DOING NON-VIOLENT SILENT POOR EVIL!?!??!?!


(assuming he doesent break them :smalltongue:)

[Tiki Snakes]

oh yeah, HOW THE HELL IS THIS GUY DOING EVIL!?!??!? HE TOOK VOW OF NON-VIOLENCE VOW OF SILENCE AND VOW OF POVERTY!!!! IS HE DOING NON-VIOLENT SILENT POOR EVIL!?!??!?!

Mindrape?

Yeah, okay, we've probably talked ourselves into a knot here. :) If we assume the DM is strong willed/serious enough to resist the Pun-pun thing, he can stop being Evil.

[ChaosDefender24]

he is definitely going to pull Pazuzu silliness or the like if you stick him with the commoner.


You have to modify the challenge, if possible

give him a frenzied berserker. without warblade levels. don't act like it's a bad build.

we'll see who appreciates his powergaming when he kills his party.

[quick_comment]

Give him levels of defiant and ur-preist. That makes him anathama to all gods, even pauzuzu.

[teh_meh]

(level 1)....

[quick_comment]

(level 1)....

Give him a higher level character. Or make him a defiant 1/ur-priest 1/Factotum 1 with an incarnate warforged (-2 LA). Meet the requirements through shennangians

[Olo Demonsbane]

Make him be a buomann...that race that cant actually talk. No Pazuzu for you :smalltongue:

[Korivan]

Pun-puns not an option. No dm, myself included allows pun-pun. The next dm doesnt allow the candle of invocation, infinate loops, or pretty much anything from the "dirty tricks handbook". He's for the more traditional dungeon crawling, standard style adventuring team. So, a commoner really has no place in this campaign. I just want to have him eat his words, then pipe down. Extra points if I can convince him to stay as a commoner(imagine at level 30, could still have under 10-20hp). And yes, this is about ANY build idea and make it work. Not, uncommon, underpowered, medeocre made better idea like taking a monk and make it bad@$$, or a good damage output fighter, but anything.

The reason I gave the CON a better score, I figured i'd give him at least a couple of hp at 1st level. With this he starts with 2 hp (we do max at 1st level), and a 50% chance for no hp, 25% for 1hp, and 25% for 2hp per level up. This will help discurage him from taking the powerfull classes with d4 hit dice. I got a feeling I'll keep this build around, just to make it a running gag...now I have to come up with a name.

[Vortling]

I just want to have him eat his words, then pipe down.

Probably not going to happen. But everyone can dream.



The reason I gave the CON a better score, I figured i'd give him at least a couple of hp at 1st level. With this he starts with 2 hp (we do max at 1st level), and a 50% chance for no hp, 25% for 1hp, and 25% for 2hp per level up. This will help discurage him from taking the powerfull classes with d4 hit dice. I got a feeling I'll keep this build around, just to make it a running gag...now I have to come up with a name.
How about, "Oh god I'm taking druid levels asap"?

[Signmaker]

Make him be a buomann...that race that cant actually talk. No Pazuzu for you :smalltongue:

Untrue. Buomman can talk. They just take a small cumulative penalty each time they do.

[Milskidasith]

Pun-puns not an option. No dm, myself included allows pun-pun. The next dm doesnt allow the candle of invocation, infinate loops, or pretty much anything from the "dirty tricks handbook". He's for the more traditional dungeon crawling, standard style adventuring team. So, a commoner really has no place in this campaign. I just want to have him eat his words, then pipe down. Extra points if I can convince him to stay as a commoner(imagine at level 30, could still have under 10-20hp). And yes, this is about ANY build idea and make it work. Not, uncommon, underpowered, medeocre made better idea like taking a monk and make it bad@$$, or a good damage output fighter, but anything.

The reason I gave the CON a better score, I figured i'd give him at least a couple of hp at 1st level. With this he starts with 2 hp (we do max at 1st level), and a 50% chance for no hp, 25% for 1hp, and 25% for 2hp per level up. This will help discurage him from taking the powerfull classes with d4 hit dice. I got a feeling I'll keep this build around, just to make it a running gag...now I have to come up with a name.

You want to make the worst build possible from there, and you don't want him to take the best build possible? That's fairly hypocritical.

I mean, from what I can tell, the deal was "I'll take what you give me at first level and make it good." You can't suddenly start violating rule -1 and expect him to follow it.

Forcing him to take commoner to 20 doesn't even let him show off his optimization potential! If you make him take levels in a bad class, and make him take bad feats, then he isn't building a character out of horrible stats and making it good, you are building a terrible character and forcing him to play it. That's not, at all, related to any claim of being able to take the worst level 1 character possible and make it good.

[Seatbelt]

I feel like it would be more clever to stick him with some absurd feat/build combo like ranger with weapon focus great sword or something. Saying "dur you're a commoner" is a little lame I think.

[Korivan]

I'm not sticking him with this for 20 levels. That was a side joke. I fully expect him to drop this like a sack of bricks. Which is fine. I just want the worst crap for him to see that he CAN'T fix everything. And there's no forceing anything...you aparently didnt see that I'm not dming this, he's free to turn it down. But, the goal is to give him the WORST possible starting place, and see what he can do. Something he's been bragging about all day now. Ideally, IF he takes this, he'll play for a few hours, roll out something new.

[Milskidasith]

I'm not sticking him with this for 20 levels. That was a side joke. I fully expect him to drop this like a sack of bricks. Which is fine. I just want the worst crap for him to see that he CAN'T fix everything. And there's no forceing anything...you aparently didnt see that I'm not dming this, he's free to turn it down. But, the goal is to give him the WORST possible starting place, and see what he can do. Something he's been bragging about all day now. Ideally, IF he takes this, he'll play for a few hours, roll out something new.

This still totally ignores that if you do this, he is fully within his rights to play Pun Pun. Why? Rule -1, man. If you violate that, by forcing him to do something pathetic (and yes, saying "You aren't fixing anything if you can't play a commoner with horrible stats that gets feats I pick, and if you don't do it you are a chicken who can't optimize things" is essentially forcing him to do it, because peer pressure is probably the strongest force in the world outside of actual physical forces), then saying "Oh, you can't play Pun Pun because it's cheap" is hypocrisy.

If you force him to play the absolute worst, and he can solve it by playing his absolute best, and you say "No, you can't do that." then there is no point to this entire argument. You're already wrong, right now, just because of your mentality that certain optimization tactics don't count, while any de-optimization tactic is fine.

[Zeta Kai]

This guy sounds like a munchkin, & there's no easier way for a munchkin to break the game via RAW than with Diplomancy. Be sure to gimp his Charisma, & find some means to ensure that he can't easily build his Diplomacy ranks up later. Some permanent penalty to his skill checks would be a good start. Maybe a special flaw in exchange for some worthless feat (like Toughness or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip/Net)?

[Rixx]

Alternatively, give him lots of levels in a spellcasting class, but a stat far, far too low to actually cast any spells. He should have to stack magic items onto himself to even throw out cantrips.

[quick_comment]

Give him a pre-fallen kobold paladin.