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Gralamin
2009-09-10, 11:27 PM
Assassin Heroic tier are out. Its awesome. Absolutely freakin awesome.

Mando Knight
2009-09-10, 11:42 PM
It is all sorts of creepy-awesome. Interesting that it's the only class that can successfully poison Orcus...

Ranis
2009-09-10, 11:45 PM
Oh jeez. Now everyone and their mother at the RPGA I go to will play one of these. Thanks, WotC.

Grynning
2009-09-10, 11:59 PM
Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a Drow racial feat for the assassin. Odd considering they allegedly created one of the "guild training" styles.

Other than that, solid class, though I don't know if I'll be playing one. My "always play morally questionable and creepy" friend will, though, I'm sure.

Break
2009-09-11, 12:14 AM
I like what I see so far, though its assassin's shroud class feature effectively eliminates an idea I was going to use for a major homebrew. =( I haven't read too far into the powers or feats, but the class features and at-wills are solid. If other exclusive classes are this well-designed, I'd enjoy 4E quite a bit more than usual.

Their wizard-level fragility concerns me a bit, though I suppose the idea was that their ease of access to invisibility and having Con as a secondary would ease this a bit. I'd have to test it.

FoE
2009-09-11, 12:34 AM
It's pretty awesome. I could see myself enjoying this class.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-09-11, 12:47 AM
I don't get it. This seems more like some shadow cultist or something, rather than a person who kills for money.

FoE
2009-09-11, 01:22 AM
I don't get it. This seems more like some shadow cultist or something, rather than a person who kills for money.

True, the word "assassin" typically refers to a hired killer who works alone. But D&D has almost always had a class that was termed "assassin" that could be used as your typical adventurer.

What it boils down to, Zousha, is that "assassin" sounds way cooler than something like "Shadowkiller" or "Darkstalker" or "Nightstabber" or some other lame-ass thing.

Gralamin
2009-09-11, 01:27 AM
True, the word "assassin" typically refers to a hired killer who works alone. But D&D has almost always had a class that was termed "assassin" that could be used as your typical adventurer.

What it boils down to, Zousha, is that "assassin" sounds way cooler than something like "Shadowkiller" or some other lame-ass thing.

Its basically Shadow Hand on Crack. If you didn't like Shadow Hand from ToB in 3.5, I don't think you'd like this assassin much.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-11, 03:54 AM
What it boils down to, Zousha, is that "assassin" sounds way cooler than something like "Shadowkiller" or "Darkstalker" or "Nightstabber" or some other lame-ass thing.

They should totally have a Nightstabber class. And a Dawnsworder and Sunwandian, too :smallbiggrin:

NPCMook
2009-09-11, 04:43 AM
They should totally have a Nightstabber class. And a Dawnsworder and Sunwandian, too :smallbiggrin:

Stop revealing the Elemental classes :smallwink:

Totally Guy
2009-09-11, 04:48 AM
What it boils down to, Zousha, is that "assassin" sounds way cooler than something like "Shadowkiller" or "Darkstalker" or "Nightstabber" or some other lame-ass thing.

:smallbiggrin: Those sound just lame enough to be realistic yet not so lame as to be audacious. And that makes it brilliant.

Tyrmatt
2009-09-11, 04:49 AM
They should totally have a Nightstabber class. And a Dawnsworder and Sunwandian, too :smallbiggrin:

Power Sources for these classes include The Darkbad and Brightwin.

Assassin looks nifty, I love the idea of an assassin who rules through fear. Definitely gonna play up the fear controller angle should I slip into the hood and gloves of one of these fellas.

Athaniar
2009-09-11, 05:27 AM
If you want to play a traditional assassin, play a rogue. This class looks cool.

KIDS
2009-09-11, 05:39 AM
I am unsure about that Daily Utility 2 power that they have. Am I reading it wrong or it really grants invisibility until end of encounter as long as you stay out of bright light?

Overall, I get the feeling that the Assassin might be a little over the top, but it does look interesting. Now, if only I got the opportunity to play it somewhere...

Hal
2009-09-11, 06:03 AM
This is interesting, though I haven't heard about the Shadow power source yet. What's that one all about?

Mando Knight
2009-09-11, 07:10 AM
This is interesting, though I haven't heard about the Shadow power source yet. What's that one all about?

It's about getting power by selling your soul to scary-dark places. Usually the Shadowfell, but the real epic ones come from Scarytown (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/3/20/).

eepop
2009-09-11, 09:48 AM
Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a Drow racial feat for the assassin. Odd considering they allegedly created one of the "guild training" styles.

I imagine that the races that didn't get a feat in heroic will get one in paragon or maybe epic. There's a lot of races, so you can't really afford the space/design time to give all of them a feat in each tier. I imagine they probably brainstormed what the feats for all the races would be based not on "we want a heroic racial feat for X" but instead by saying "what would be a cool racial feat for X", and then assigned them to the tier based on how powerful they ended up being.

Mando Knight
2009-09-11, 10:32 AM
Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a Drow racial feat for the assassin. Odd considering they allegedly created one of the "guild training" styles.

What's weirder is that Deva have one... but don't have a relevant attribute bonus. :smallconfused:

oxinabox
2009-09-11, 10:44 AM
oooh, this might go nice with 373

Xallace
2009-09-11, 11:09 AM
I am unsure about that Daily Utility 2 power that they have. Am I reading it wrong or it really grants invisibility until end of encounter as long as you stay out of bright light?


Yes, as long as you: 1) Don't move more than 10 feet a round, and 2) take a Standard Action every round to sustain it.

kamuishirou
2009-09-11, 12:11 PM
Shoot, I missed this update yesterday. Though while attending PAX I picked up the preview character they had in a hand out and thought it looked pretty cool.

Can't wait to get home and download it.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-09-11, 02:23 PM
True, the word "assassin" typically refers to a hired killer who works alone. But D&D has almost always had a class that was termed "assassin" that could be used as your typical adventurer.

What it boils down to, Zousha, is that "assassin" sounds way cooler than something like "Shadowkiller" or "Darkstalker" or "Nightstabber" or some other lame-ass thing.

Then what do you call a hired killer who works alone when the name "Assassin" is already taken?

Sir Homeslice
2009-09-11, 02:26 PM
Then what do you call a hired killer who works alone when the name "Assassin" is already taken?

Assassin.

Also, to quote Dragon #373: Art of the Kill...

True Assassins

Those who study the art of murder invariably hear rumors about other killers who some regard as true assassins. No one knows with certainty if these people or creatures exist, so they relegate them to legend and myth. Where the tales agree, they paint these mysterious figures as creatures of the night, having no need for the tricks and tools used by their lesser ilk. Some say they can step through walls, blend into the stuff of shadows, alter their appearance at will, and command the gloaming to do their bidding. If these true assassins exist, they have left behind no witnesses—only questions and chilling fear.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-09-11, 02:38 PM
But, it's already a class! If I were to play just a hired killer, I wouldn't want exchanges like this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) all the time!

Shadow_Elf
2009-09-11, 03:39 PM
It's so awesome it almost makes me regret requesting to DM our gaming group's next campaign, as I won't get to play one of these...

Yakk
2009-09-11, 04:00 PM
You can be a Rogue Wizard without multiclassing. :)

Look at the root of Assassin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination#Etymology
it did (apparently) come from a single cult of Arabic killers.

In D&D land, it comes from people who trade part of their soul for the power to be awesome (in a shadowy, killing way).

At-will shadow step is neat (teleport from one creature to another through their shadows). Shade Form gives them an unnatural stealth (with restrictions).

Their "striker" feature is interesting, in that you build up tokens on the target then finish them. This lets you do things like ignore your 'target' while building up shrouds, then take them out. With the right feat, your target doesn't even know you are putting tokens on them, which leads to an awesome opening salvo.

This also means that you are a good character to 'sneak up' on opponents, then lay down some shrouds on a big bad, then have your party follow in afterwards as you all engage.

Two of their at-wills have damage bennies, the other two are highly wonkey (like wonkier than Warden melee powers). One of the class features is avenger-eqsue (isolate your target to kill it), the other gives you a survivability boost.

They continue to use the "Ranger breaks the game" patch of "roll multiple attack rolls, then add up the damage as one attack".

They have an implement/weapon as implement method. Their implement is similar to the monk's unarmed implement -- an enchantable part of themselves. But they can use their 'ki focus' on an unenchanted weapon that they are using.

Similarly, they can use a weapon as an implement (but only get some of the features, like all implement weapons).

To simplify, imagine if the Paladin and Cleric had a feature:
Holy Weapon + Paladin Feature
Implement, Divine, At-Will
Minor Action
Target: One weapon you are holding.
Effect: The weapon's enhancement bonus is replaced by your implement's enhancement bonus. If the weapon did not deal extra damage on a critical hit already, it now deals an extra 1d6 radiant damage per enhancement bonus. This effect lasts until you lose possession of the weapon or use it on another weapon.

Or something like that.

dragoonsgone
2009-09-11, 04:42 PM
I want to make a Rogue/Assassin multiclass. Their close quarters movements combined with sneak attack would be unreal.

Tiki Snakes
2009-09-11, 07:44 PM
Then what do you call a hired killer who works alone when the name "Assassin" is already taken?

You are not your class name. I am currently, for example, playing a human Sorcerer in one game.
He does not self identify as a Sorcerer, given that he has aquired his power through esoteric martial arts, and the forbidden lore thereof. If anything, he'd identify as either a mystic, at best, if anything.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-11, 07:49 PM
Then what do you call a hired killer who works alone when the name "Assassin" is already taken?

According to my thesaurus, you call him a butcher, clipper, dropper, eliminator, enforcer, executioner, guerrilla, gun person, gun*, hatchet person, hit person, killer, liquidator, piece person, plugger, slayer, soldier, torpedo, or trigger person.

Tiki Snakes
2009-09-11, 08:07 PM
According to my thesaurus, you call him a butcher, clipper, dropper, eliminator, enforcer, executioner, guerrilla, gun person, gun*, hatchet person, hit person, killer, liquidator, piece person, plugger, slayer, soldier, torpedo, or trigger person.

You forgot Cleaner.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-11, 08:13 PM
You forgot Cleaner.

You're hired :smallbiggrin:

The Glyphstone
2009-09-11, 08:29 PM
Their "striker" feature is interesting, in that you build up tokens on the target then finish them. This lets you do things like ignore your 'target' while building up shrouds, then take them out. With the right feat, your target doesn't even know you are putting tokens on them, which leads to an awesome opening salvo.

Seriously WotC?

Seriously?

...

Let the WoW jokes commence.

Xallace
2009-09-11, 08:55 PM
Seriously WotC?

Seriously?

...

Let the WoW jokes commence.

Care to explain? I don't play WoW.

Sir_Elderberry
2009-09-11, 08:58 PM
I played WoW, but never a rogue, however, they build up "combo points" which power finishing moves.

dragoonsgone
2009-09-11, 10:47 PM
I would never have put that together with combo points in a million years and I had a high level rogue. I guess people will grasp any straw.

ghost_warlock
2009-09-12, 12:32 AM
Not exactly 'grasping at straws' here.


Their "striker" feature is interesting, in that you build up tokens on the target then finish them.
"tokens" (shrouds) = combo points.


This lets you do things like ignore your 'target' while building up shrouds, then take them out.
By 'target' they mean 'focus.'


With the right feat, your target doesn't even know you are putting tokens on them, which leads to an awesome opening salvo.
Tricks of the Trade and Premeditation.

Also, 'shadow step' = shadowstep.

Sounds like an Assassination/Subtelty rogue to me.

Starsinger
2009-09-12, 07:37 AM
I was thinking it was a less severe version of the 3rd edition Assassin PrC's "wait 3 rounds and death attack".

Drakefall
2009-09-12, 08:18 AM
According to my thesaurus, you call him a butcher, clipper, dropper, eliminator, enforcer, executioner, guerrilla, gun person, gun*, hatchet person, hit person, killer, liquidator, piece person, plugger, slayer, soldier, torpedo, or trigger person.

You also forgot my personal favourite: wetboy. As happily stolen by myself from Brent Weeks' Night Angel trilogy.:smallbiggrin:

An assassin has targets, a wetboy has deaders. That's because when a wetboy's hired to kill you, you're already dead.

Xallace
2009-09-12, 08:38 AM
I was thinking it was a less severe version of the 3rd edition Assassin PrC's "wait 3 rounds and death attack".

Yeah that was my impression.

Well, WoW-rippy or not, I'm liking this class well enough so far. One of the few times I've actually found the power fluff worth visualizing.

KIDS
2009-09-12, 09:04 AM
The comparison to WoW doesn't ring any bells to me either, and I have played a rogue for a fair while. The idea of stacking the potential and opportunities to do something devastating has been around for much much longer. I know that there was a spell in 2nd edition or around there that became better and better the more time you cast it on the same enemy, for example.

Artanis
2009-09-12, 11:02 AM
While I have only played the original and BC, I also don't see much similarity with the WoW Rogue in what I have played. Every single piece of the shroud mechanic is different from any remotely comparable piece of the combo point mechanic, with the sole exception of a single, solitary high-tier talent vaguely resembling the one feat.

You can make a comparison if you make a BIG stretch, but that goes for pretty much anything.

13379\/\/4R
2009-09-12, 11:34 AM
An assassin has targets, a wetboy has deaders. That's because when a wetboy's hired to kill you, you're already dead.
You win my friend. I love those books, and the class actualy reminds me of a certain kakarifer(a little bit, but it's there.)

Kulture
2009-09-12, 12:49 PM
My personal favourites are Kick artist (I think it was coined by shadowrun) and my all time favourite, Depopulation manager (Or Depopulation management facilitator, if you prefer)

Another good one is coin-slot killer, due to the fact that you put money in and death is dispensed.