Suitable use of a wish spell?

[AngelisBlack]

One of my players wants to use a Wish spell to switch the order in which he took levels. Making a Monk 10/Rogue 10 into a Rogue 10/Monk 10. As far as I can figure all it gives him is extra skill points and less HP, should I allow this?

[PId6]

Um, considering he's a Monk/Rogue and that this hardly affects him much besides a few extra skill points, you should let him do it without needing Wish.

And switch his monk levels to swordsage in the process.

[AngelisBlack]

What about someone who was 20 sorcerer/20 outsider (another wish spell involving type changes in one case and and asimar taking racial levels in another case.) This then becomes a character who gets a massive BAB, save, and skill point increase.

[Kylarra]

What about someone who was 20 sorcerer/20 outsider (another wish spell involving type changes in one case and and asimar taking racial levels in another case.) This then becomes a character who gets a massive BAB, save, and skill point increase.
They're epic, let them do whatever they want.

[Curmudgeon]

The process for rebuilding a character's class levels is detailed on pages 196-198 of Players Handbook II.
In essence, you are altering reality in order to rewrite your character’s personal history. Therefore, to accomplish a character rebuild, your PC must complete a significant and challenging quest. Using a Wish spell to substitute for a quest seems in line with the spell's capabilities.

[PId6]

What about someone who was 20 sorcerer/20 outsider (another wish spell involving type changes in one case and and asimar taking racial levels in another case.) This then becomes a character who gets a massive BAB, save, and skill point increase.
As far as I know, RHD should usually come before class levels anyway.

And yeah, if they're level 40 already, don't bother trying to balance things.

[Signmaker]

Angeh, I see no problem with it. All that really changes is feat attainment, a bit of skill points, and which HD gets maxed for HP.

[The Neoclassic]

Angeh, I see no problem with it. All that really changes is feat attainment, a bit of skill points, and which HD gets maxed for HP.

Yeah, I'm with this. I wouldn't just let the characters do it for free (without a wish spell, that is), but it doesn't seem to merit any crazy-long quest either. In cases where the effects would be far more profound than the example in the original post, a quest might be merited.

[Johel]

Um, considering he's a Monk/Rogue and that this hardly affects him much besides a few extra skill points, you should let him do it without needing Wish.

And switch his monk levels to swordsage in the process.

It affects the fact that, having abandonned the "Way of the Monk" for a few Rogue level, he can't get back to take more level of it.


Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

With the new order (Rogue/Monk), he can keep leveling as a Monk.

[Myou]

Retraining should be free. Just roleplay it.

[Curmudgeon]

Retraining should be free.
1) This isn't a case of retraining; it's a case of rebuilding, which is a more involved process.

2) It could be free of cost, but it's unlikely to be free of time expenditure, or of danger. Rebuilding requires the character to undergo a quest. There's always a risk of death for such things.

[Myou]

1) This isn't a case of retraining; it's a case of rebuilding, which is a more involved process.

2) It could be free of cost, but it's unlikely to be free of time expenditure, or of danger. Rebuilding requires the character to undergo a quest. There's always a risk of death for such things.

It's retraining his levels, the term seems fair to me. Anyway, there's no reason not to let hm do it without a quest in his downtime.

[Lysander]

It's not like he's asking for extra levels. I'd say let him go for it.

Maybe the spell could even rewrite history so he ACTUALLY did take rogue before monk. The spell could transport him to a monastery where's he's still a practicing member of the order. He did everything he did before, but using rogue abilities only and he didn't join the monastery until after his adventurers convinced him to undertake a spiritual journey, rather than abandoning his spiritual journey to go on adventures. His friends could see him disappear, wonder where he went, then suddenly gain memories of him going to visit his abbot for guidance for a few weeks.

[Curmudgeon]

It's retraining his levels, the term seems fair to me. I'm using the specific terms as they're defined in the rules. By the RAW, there are different requirements for retraining and rebuilding.

[Myou]

I'm using the specific terms as they're defined in the rules. By the RAW, there are different requirements for retraining and rebuilding.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. I advocate ignoring them anyway. :smalltongue:

[woodenbandman]

Agree, let him do what he wants. He gets all of 16 skill points out of the deal. That's not gonna break your game. Heck, that's even a crappy use of a wish, if you ask me.

[Mongoose87]

If he's willing to say he alternated levels, he could have just been a rogue, until he joined the monks, but still developed the rogue skills to be useful.

[Myou]

Agree, let him do what he wants. He gets all of 16 skill points out of the deal. That's not gonna break your game. Heck, that's even a crappy use of a wish, if you ask me.

Yeah, I was saying it should just be paid for with his downtime. :smallsmile:

[Androgeus]

I'm surprised no-one has asked if he also wished not to be on fire yet.

[RandomNPC]

ask for a backup wish, and if the backup wish isn't to out there allow the backup wish on the grounds the character is re-built with the origonal wish intent. but the second wish has to be something like "i wish i had a fresh apple pie" or something else intirely senseable.

[Myou]

I'm surprised no-one has asked if he also wished not to be on fire yet.

That way madness lies. And fire that is also on fire.

[Sinfire Titan]

1) This isn't a case of retraining; it's a case of rebuilding, which is a more involved process.

2) It could be free of cost, but it's unlikely to be free of time expenditure, or of danger. Rebuilding requires the character to undergo a quest. There's always a risk of death for such things.

That is a suggested course of action. The DM is free to ignore that. I also ignore the gold costs for retraining, personally, because I like letting my players correct their mistakes. I still limit it to legal choices, and only allow retraining during level-ups.

[oxinabox]

That way madness lies. And fire that is also on fire.

I thought the only suitable use for the wish spell was to with thitt you were on fire?

jk

[Elxir_Breauer]

There is a Feat in CAdv for situations like this, Ascetic Rogue (pg. 106, Complete Adventurer), have him consider taking it as part of his Rogue 10/Monk 10 rebuild, if he doesn't already have it. It may actually be an improvement. :smallsmile:

[Mr.Moron]

Since the change has so little mechanical impact I'd probably just hand the player the for changes for free. Whatever few tiny inconsistencies did pop we'd just chalk up to a "a recent burst of inspiration". Assuming anyone even notices them, a handful of skill points probably isn't going to result in anything that is visible to anyone but person staring at the character sheet.

I'd then suggest the player make a better wish.

[Sir_Elderberry]

As someone pointed out, one significant change is that his new build can take more Monk levels. Therefore, he is technically debuffing himself. :smallamused:

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Necro'ed threads are delicious when devoured.