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RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-11, 09:06 AM
I'm working on a character that has a lot of gear(NPC). He's being funded by a group that has a lot of resources and I'm trying to make him some armor and a shield. I'm trying to make both armor and shield +5 and with +5 worth of abilities. However If a shield/armor cost is not expressed in a +1 or +2, etc style how do you determine what it cost in regard to having a maximum of +10 on any item?
does that make sense?

Eldariel
2009-09-11, 09:10 AM
Those abilities with fixed costs don't really apply towards the maximum enhancement. I mean, yes, it will be an epic item if its cost exceeds 200000gp, but as long as the total enhancement bonus value is +10 or less, it remains affordable.

With armors, you can really afford a ton of fixed bonuses before crossing any boundaries (and even making it Epic just makes crafting it harder). So yeah, eh, basically they don't count towards the maximum enhancement bonus. Fixed cost enhancements, that is.

AslanCross
2009-09-11, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure what you mean. All magical properties either have an equivalent enhancement bonus as stated in the DMG or MIC, or a set GP price. Such a property does not add to the total enhancement bonus allotment of the item, but just adds directly to the total cost of the item.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-11, 09:10 AM
Those abilities with fixed costs don't really apply towards the maximum enhancement. I mean, yes, it will be an epic item if its cost exceeds 200000gp, but as long as the total enhancement bonus value is +10 or less, it remains affordable.

With armors, you can really afford a ton of fixed bonuses before crossing any boundaries (and even making it Epic just makes crafting it harder). So yeah, eh, basically they don't count towards the maximum enhancement bonus. Fixed cost enhancements, that is.

wow that seems a little broken no?

AslanCross:

I thought on any piece of armor you could have no more then +5 enhancement And +5 in special abilities.

kamikasei
2009-09-11, 09:12 AM
Like Eldariel says. The only limitation is the threshold that makes it an epic item and dectuples its price. So with armor or a shield, you can make it +10 and still have 100,000 worth of fixed-cost enhancements you can add. Possibly minus the base price of the masterwork armor, I'm not sure on that score...

Eldariel
2009-09-11, 09:13 AM
wow that seems a little broken no?

AslanCross:

I thought on any piece of armor you could have no more then +5 enhancement And +5 in special abilities.

That's the beauty of fixed cost enhancements. To be fair, most of them aren't too strong and as such, it doesn't break anything. But Greater Shadow, Silent Moves & company are nice.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-09-11, 09:17 AM
That's the beauty of fixed cost enhancements. To be fair, most of them aren't too strong and as such, it doesn't break anything. But Greater Shadow, Silent Moves & company are nice.

IC Well then that's gonna make my rogue a bit happy Thanks all.

ericgrau
2009-09-11, 11:18 AM
There's no limit on the enchantments that don't have a +X equivalent, as long as the total cost of all enchantments (including the +X ones) does not exceed 200,000 gp. The total of enchantments that do have a +X equivalent can't go higher than +5, since you already have a +5 enhancement and the total of both of those can't go above +10.

The final market price of each item, will be the cost of the masterwork versions of each item + 100,000 gp + the cost of the non +X enchantments. This may not exceed the cost of the masterwork versions of each item + 200,000 gp.

Glimbur
2009-09-11, 11:21 AM
I thought on any piece of armor you could have no more then +5 enhancement And +5 in special abilities.

It's even sillier than that. You can't have more than +10 total effect pre-epic. And you have to have +1 before you can do anything else. So you can have +1 armor with +9 special abilities. And then cast Magic Vestment.

ericgrau
2009-09-11, 11:45 AM
Correct, though I find the 2nd part of that info, the trick, more useful on weapons which have special abilities you'd want to take over an enhancement bonus. On shields and armor you can cheaply afford a +5 WAY before you can magic vestment it on. If a permanent bonus cost something significant or if you didn't mind having a lower bonus, then magic vestment would be more useful.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-11, 02:39 PM
I don't think so. Magic Vestments, is free, and especially with a buffer Cleric or Wizard, keeps pace with the +x boost that you'd be paying money for. +5 armor costs 25 K, meaning ~level 12. At that level, a buffer Cleric will have a Bead of Karma and Divine Spell Power for CL 20 Magic Vestments. +3 is ~7, when a Cleric with any CL boosts at all is looking at giving +2, and in 1 level can probably give +3. GMW scales even better, due to the cost of magic weapons.

ericgrau
2009-09-11, 04:13 PM
Assuming you can get the splatbook feat. And a 20k item just for another +1 on morning buffs? I think a magic item crafter would be better. He can save money on weapons too. Either way that's also a lot of build focus just to briefly save part of what will soon be not much money. Dunno what you were carrying around for levels 1-11 either, or if that had to be dumped or if you just ate the drawback for half your adventuring lives so that you could briefly gain an advantage. So maybe that could work in a crazy morning buff focused build at certain levels, but not usually. And even then such builds live in constant fear of a single dispel magic wiping half of it away; at least if monsters are played with half a brain (though some people don't bother). If you just have a couple buffs on the side on top of other things you do with your build, then losing them is not so bad.

Hmm, I did just think of one use though. Those with a minor dependence on AC like archer focused builds could take the smaller AC and save a little coin.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-11, 05:52 PM
Assuming you can get the splatbook feat. And a 20k item just for another +1 on morning buffs? I think a magic item crafter would be better. He can save money on weapons too. Either way that's also a lot of build focus just to briefly save part of what will soon be not much money. Dunno what you were carrying around for levels 1-11 either, or if that had to be dumped or if you just ate the drawback for half your adventuring lives so that you could briefly gain an advantage. So maybe that could work in a crazy morning buff focused build at certain levels, but not usually. And even then such builds live in constant fear of a single dispel magic wiping half of it away; at least if monsters are played with half a brain (though some people don't bother). If you just have a couple buffs on the side on top of other things you do with your build, then losing them is not so bad.

Hmm, I did just think of one use though. Those with a minor dependence on AC like archer focused builds could take the smaller AC and save a little coin.Dispel Magic doesn't work against CL 20 spells. At all. You need the greater version, which means a far smaller chunk of monsters have it, and even then you need a very good CL and a bit of luck with the dice.

And it's expensive, but cheaper than, say, +5 armor or weapons, and it works on all of your morning buffs, and in my groups it would be paid for by the party as a whole out of petty cash, since the primary benefits of the item are for those who don't use it.