CheshireCatAW
2009-09-11, 11:02 AM
The primary difficulty in adjucating what is possible with magic is that people do not have a frame of reference in the real world to guide it with. It's comparatively simple to figure that it's X much harder to cleave a log in twain when you're only able to bench press 50lbs as opposed to pressing 150lbs. We have no idea how "feasible" it would really be to increase the damage of your fireball from 1d6 to 2d6. And even that would be easier to figure out than what level spells should start affecting the mind directly such as sleep. Magic in the game world rides along, for all intents and purposes, with little (if any) guidance on how it would "really" work. The disconnect occurs when we start basing other skills off Real-World guides. Comparing a Fighter or Barbarian as-is to a Wizard or Cleric is like comparing Pong to Half-Life 2. The limitations that were in place for Pong are wildly, fantastically different than what HL2 has.
From this point, we have two options if we're trying to "balance" the classes. We could depower the Wizard or we could empower the Fighter. I intend to brainstorm some ideas of how to do the latter.
To empower the Fighter we have to take it off it's real-world limitations. I've heard, peripherally, that some people don't like ToB because it makes martial characters "too anime-y". I contend that this is the way to go with the Fighter (and to an extent, Barbarian) to balance him. He's got to embrace the fantasy tropes that allow Questing Peasant Steve to survive things he realistically stands no chance against. He's got to be able to leap ravines and burrow into rock WITHOUT MAGIC. He's got to be able to Matrix-Dodge arrows and push back magical walls of force because he's STRONG enough. We have to push his/her physical training to the point where it becomes implausible.
Hypervelocity Sword/Axe/Shield/
My first thought was a proprietary damage type that is allowed to persons of extreme strength. They are able to swing that sword -so hard- that the damage type changes to Perforation or Hypervelocity. The idea stemming from the effect Explosively Formed Penetrators have on modern heavily armored vehicles. What are the effects of this damage type? I have no clue! Maybe it does more damage to heavily armored people because of the armor backspall. Maybe it causes excessively higher damage (Maybe increasing the damage bonus from Strength from +1 per modifier to +3 or +4). It would also probably ignore some types of DR due to its nature. I'm certain people with more familiarity with the game system could come up with a far more balanced option.
A mythological example that comes to mind that is not replicable in game is the Cadalbolg being able to split a hill in half. While this might not immediately make this possible, I think it's a step in the right direction.
Is this realistic? Of course not. This completely ignores the science of why EFPs work. But who cares? It's simply doing what the Fighter already does and upgrading it into something better while maintaining a semblance of logic. It's what magic has been doing for decades!
Fighting Styles for Fighters
I've always been of the thought that Class Abilities should be more powerful than feats. How about giving fighters certain Feat Trees and tie them together as a Fighting Style, perhaps adding unique bonuses. Perhaps a Tripping style which, in addition to granting the Trip Feat tree, gives bonuses to tripping larger creatures, quadrupeds or, heck, even flying enemies. Have a Charging style which gives significant bonuses to charging enemies. The drawback might be that it takes a swift action to change between fighting styles.
This one was tangentially inspired by the Jedi, of all things. They have different fighting styles that boost certain abilities or allow certain skills to be used. I remember reading a novel where they switch fighting styles during a fight to throw off an enemy. This seems like something a Fighter should be capable of.
The huge benefit of this is that if the Fighter starts receiving this as class skills, his ability to contribute in a variety of situations increases. Maybe give him a different style every 3rd level or so? It will free them to take a single feat here or there that they might not take otherwise
Magic Spells style list of Feats of Strength
Maybe a Fighter with strength 25+, a certain Fighting Style and a couple of turns can push a wall of Force until it bubbles outward and bursts. Maybe a redonkulously tough Fighter can stab himself to give himself a bonus to resisting the effects of a mind affecting spell. Maybe a Fighter can swing a sword with such strength and precision that it creates a Wind-blast style projectile.
In classic literature it is rarely the Wizard which is the primary protagonist. It's usually the martially inclined character who leads the group to glory through stabbing things. They usually have to force their way through things magical, and it's just not reflected that way currently.
I looked at this originally and thought "That's just giving Fighters magic" and was kind of put off by it. After a while I realized that I was wrong. The only reason I might have thought it was magic is because it superficially resembles the system magic uses to list their items. This is simply a Fighter exceeding his reality-based limitation and slightly limiting magic's arbitrary omnipotence.
These are merely three concepts that I've been pondering over and may refine yet further, but I would like to know the general consensus of wether or not this makes sense to others, if it's already been done, or if it just comes off as another stark-raving lunatic preaching their "unique" idea on the boards.
Thank you for reading this and special thanks for critiques, comments and further ideas.
From this point, we have two options if we're trying to "balance" the classes. We could depower the Wizard or we could empower the Fighter. I intend to brainstorm some ideas of how to do the latter.
To empower the Fighter we have to take it off it's real-world limitations. I've heard, peripherally, that some people don't like ToB because it makes martial characters "too anime-y". I contend that this is the way to go with the Fighter (and to an extent, Barbarian) to balance him. He's got to embrace the fantasy tropes that allow Questing Peasant Steve to survive things he realistically stands no chance against. He's got to be able to leap ravines and burrow into rock WITHOUT MAGIC. He's got to be able to Matrix-Dodge arrows and push back magical walls of force because he's STRONG enough. We have to push his/her physical training to the point where it becomes implausible.
Hypervelocity Sword/Axe/Shield/
My first thought was a proprietary damage type that is allowed to persons of extreme strength. They are able to swing that sword -so hard- that the damage type changes to Perforation or Hypervelocity. The idea stemming from the effect Explosively Formed Penetrators have on modern heavily armored vehicles. What are the effects of this damage type? I have no clue! Maybe it does more damage to heavily armored people because of the armor backspall. Maybe it causes excessively higher damage (Maybe increasing the damage bonus from Strength from +1 per modifier to +3 or +4). It would also probably ignore some types of DR due to its nature. I'm certain people with more familiarity with the game system could come up with a far more balanced option.
A mythological example that comes to mind that is not replicable in game is the Cadalbolg being able to split a hill in half. While this might not immediately make this possible, I think it's a step in the right direction.
Is this realistic? Of course not. This completely ignores the science of why EFPs work. But who cares? It's simply doing what the Fighter already does and upgrading it into something better while maintaining a semblance of logic. It's what magic has been doing for decades!
Fighting Styles for Fighters
I've always been of the thought that Class Abilities should be more powerful than feats. How about giving fighters certain Feat Trees and tie them together as a Fighting Style, perhaps adding unique bonuses. Perhaps a Tripping style which, in addition to granting the Trip Feat tree, gives bonuses to tripping larger creatures, quadrupeds or, heck, even flying enemies. Have a Charging style which gives significant bonuses to charging enemies. The drawback might be that it takes a swift action to change between fighting styles.
This one was tangentially inspired by the Jedi, of all things. They have different fighting styles that boost certain abilities or allow certain skills to be used. I remember reading a novel where they switch fighting styles during a fight to throw off an enemy. This seems like something a Fighter should be capable of.
The huge benefit of this is that if the Fighter starts receiving this as class skills, his ability to contribute in a variety of situations increases. Maybe give him a different style every 3rd level or so? It will free them to take a single feat here or there that they might not take otherwise
Magic Spells style list of Feats of Strength
Maybe a Fighter with strength 25+, a certain Fighting Style and a couple of turns can push a wall of Force until it bubbles outward and bursts. Maybe a redonkulously tough Fighter can stab himself to give himself a bonus to resisting the effects of a mind affecting spell. Maybe a Fighter can swing a sword with such strength and precision that it creates a Wind-blast style projectile.
In classic literature it is rarely the Wizard which is the primary protagonist. It's usually the martially inclined character who leads the group to glory through stabbing things. They usually have to force their way through things magical, and it's just not reflected that way currently.
I looked at this originally and thought "That's just giving Fighters magic" and was kind of put off by it. After a while I realized that I was wrong. The only reason I might have thought it was magic is because it superficially resembles the system magic uses to list their items. This is simply a Fighter exceeding his reality-based limitation and slightly limiting magic's arbitrary omnipotence.
These are merely three concepts that I've been pondering over and may refine yet further, but I would like to know the general consensus of wether or not this makes sense to others, if it's already been done, or if it just comes off as another stark-raving lunatic preaching their "unique" idea on the boards.
Thank you for reading this and special thanks for critiques, comments and further ideas.