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View Full Version : So if something large grapples you...



drebb
2009-09-11, 06:08 PM
You never get an attack of opportunity against it as long as it's body is out of your reach?

Even if I have, say, Close-Quarters Fighting, which specifically lets me attack things that attempt to grapple me. Basically I have to get adjacent to them in the first round, or I'm dragon-chow? And if there's more than one large creature... forget it... if I close-in with one, the other is just going to grapple me.

Oh, the woes of a fighter.

Mastikator
2009-09-11, 06:12 PM
Yes. An ogre could very easily grapple a human.

AslanCross
2009-09-11, 06:14 PM
Step 4
Maintain Grapple. To maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space. (This movement is free and doesn’t count as part of your movement in the round.)

A large monster that grapples you will move into your space to maintain the grapple. If you're extremely unlucky and the monster so happened to have improved grab (the ability that Mind Flayers, Bonedrinkers, the Behir and even bears have), they'll pull YOU into its space. The only real advantage large and up creatures have in grappling is that they can initiate it from a further distance away. In the end you will end up in its space. Conversely, if the monster does not pull you in or does not move into your space, next turn you're free to run away.

EDIT: Reading fail. Yes, you don't get an AOO if you can't reach it. Mind you, creatures with Improved Grab and/or Improved Grapple won't trigger AOOs anyway.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-11, 06:25 PM
Large grapplers are not kind to (mostly medium or smaller humanoid) PCs. There's a reason every caster has Freedom of Movement, every skillmonkey has Escape Artist, and every meleer has Armor Spikes.

drebb
2009-09-11, 06:34 PM
A large monster that grapples you will move into your space to maintain the grapple. If you're extremely unlucky and the monster so happened to have improved grab (the ability that Mind Flayers, Bonedrinkers, the Behir and even bears have), they'll pull YOU into its space. The only real advantage large and up creatures have in grappling is that they can initiate it from a further distance away. In the end you will end up in its space. Conversely, if the monster does not pull you in or does not move into your space, next turn you're free to run away.

EDIT: Reading fail. Yes, you don't get an AOO if you can't reach it. Mind you, creatures with Improved Grab and/or Improved Grapple won't trigger AOOs anyway.
By the time it gets to "maintaining grapple" I'm already grappled and can't make attacks of opportunity against it anyway, right?

Grumman
2009-09-11, 06:36 PM
EDIT: Reading fail. Yes, you don't get an AOO if you can't reach it. Mind you, creatures with Improved Grab and/or Improved Grapple won't trigger AOOs anyway.
Close-Quarters Fighting gives you one anyway.

drebb
2009-09-11, 06:36 PM
I pretty much have to buy a Ring of Freedom of Movement as soon as effing possible. (Even after I wasted a feat on Close-Quarters Combat.)

Ugh. Sometimes I hate this game.

AslanCross
2009-09-11, 06:37 PM
Pretty much, yes. Grappling vs. a Large or larger monster is an extremely one-sided situation. Just ask my players who almost got eaten by a behir.

drebb
2009-09-11, 06:43 PM
I'm actually playing a Warblade. My original plan was to follow the Fighter weapon-skill progression all the way to Weapon Supremacy, but I got side-tracked somewhere and never got past Greater Weapon Focus.

Boourns.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-09-11, 07:04 PM
I'm actually playing a Warblade. My original plan was to follow the Fighter weapon-skill progression all the way to Weapon Supremacy, but I got side-tracked somewhere and never got past Greater Weapon Focus.

Boourns.Then your defense against grapple is simple: Armor Spikes+any maneuver. Make the enemy regret even considering grappling you. You can even poison the spikes, since I doubt you'll use them that often.

AslanCross
2009-09-11, 07:05 PM
Then your defense against grapple is simple: Armor Spikes+any maneuver. Make the enemy regret even considering grappling you. You can even poison the spikes, since I doubt you'll use them that often.

This. Frankly, unless your DM really wants to screw you up with large grapplers, then it's not going to come up that often. You can in fact use maneuvers in a grapple with any light weapon (that is at least a sensible interpretation of RAW). If your armor comes with gauntlets, you can even channel your maneuvers into those.

Kelpstrand
2009-09-11, 07:11 PM
I just declare that the AoO is against the limb(s) being used to initiate a grapple.

You know. Unarmed Touch attack to start grapple, why can't it be an AoO against the limb?

Still doesn't help against Improved Grabers, but meh.

olentu
2009-09-11, 07:34 PM
I just declare that the AoO is against the limb(s) being used to initiate a grapple.

You know. Unarmed Touch attack to start grapple, why can't it be an AoO against the limb?

Still doesn't help against Improved Grabers, but meh.

So that you can't cut the monks hands off when he tries to grapple you.

Irreverent Fool
2009-09-11, 07:48 PM
You can attack with a light weapon in a grapple at a -4. Unarmed attacks are considered light weapons. Gauntlets make your unarmed attacks deal lethal damage. You can power attack with unarmed attacks. (You can also Insightful Strike, but you said woes of a fighter so I figure ToB's not in play here for whatever reason.)

Sure you may not get your AoO, but being grappled isn't that bad. The rest of your party gets to beat on a grappled foe while the large thing wrestles you to the ground. (Unless it takes a -20 to hold you with just one part of its body so that it can still do other things but at that point you'll probably have a fair chance of escape.)

obnoxious
sig

AslanCross
2009-09-11, 07:55 PM
You can attack with a light weapon in a grapple at a -4. Unarmed attacks are considered light weapons. Gauntlets make your unarmed attacks deal lethal damage. You can power attack with unarmed attacks. (You can also Insightful Strike, but you said woes of a fighter so I figure ToB's not in play here for whatever reason.)

Actually, he qualified later that he is indeed playing a Warblade.

Keld Denar
2009-09-11, 07:57 PM
Cheap alternatives to FoM...

Anklets of Translocation, MIC. 2/day Swift Action teleport up to 10'. This gets you out of the grapple while still maintaining your full attackability. Twice per day is usually enough for one combat, and at the low low low price of 1400g, its cheap to buy 3-4 pairs, or add them onto an existing pair of Boots of Speed (costs 2100g).

Bolt Shirt, MIC 1/day Dim Door, CL7. This gets you far enough away that you can either run away, or whatever. 5000g, its also kinda a steal.

Boots of Big Stepping, MIC. 3 uses per day, as opposed to Bolt Shirt's 1, and Teleport as opposed to Dim Door, slightly lower cost opposed to 3x Bolt Shirts. If you've got the cash, flaunt it. Still, standard action activation makes it worse than Anklets.

Aporter Armor, MIC, 20,000g to add this to your armor or shield, 1/day Dim Door. Kinda good cause its essentially "slotless" if you have armor, but still pricier than either of the above options.

Cloak of the Montebank, DMG, strictly inferior to Bolt Shirt due to slot value and price, but a core only option.

Martial Study: Shadow Stride, Jaunt, Blink. Depending on your IL, any of these will debateably get you out of grapple 1/maneuver refresh. Its kinda iffy if you can use maneuvers in a grapple simply because the PHB list of options in a grapple is inclusive, and using maneuvers isn't included, but arguable since ToB wasn't even concieved yet when the PHB was printed. Talk to your DM, YMMV. Costs a feat, which tends to be strictly inferior to spending cash, but as a bonus is essentially unlimited out of combat, which has all kinda of utility tek.

Least Dragonmark: Mark of Passage. Another feat, once per day, standard action to port CHARACTER level x10 feet. Eberron feat, and requires some affiliation to House Orien, but opens up the sweet PrC Blade of Orien from the book Dragonmarked.

Stance, Wolverine's Stance, Tiger Claw3. Love Greatswords? Hate Grappling? Why let a little bear hug stop you from blood and gore. Accessable from normal Warbladery, or as a bonus from Martial Study + Martial Stance. There aren't really any rules about switching stances in a grapple, but probably likely. Check with your DM.

Granted, FoM does more for a character than just keep the bad touches off, like allowing you to fight free under water, in thick undergrowth, over rough stones, and keeps you out of Holds, Fogs, and Webs, but the above options are great alternatives if grappling is the only thing you are highly concerned with.