Diamond Dust

[kpenguin]

What spell could V need that requires diamond dust? All I can think of is stoneskin.

[Silverraptor]

What spell could V need that requires diamond dust? All I can think of is stoneskin.

*Pulls out 3.5 book. Flips to Spells*

Lets find out shall we!:smallbiggrin:

Edit: Hmmm... found one already. Nondetection.

I'll keep looking.

[Forbiddenwar]

From D20:
Restoration :: Diamond dust worth 100 gp that is sprinkled over the target.

Nondetection :: A pinch of diamond dust worth 50 gp.

Stoneskin ::Granite and 250 gp worth of diamond dust sprinkled on the target's skin.

Temporal Stasis :: A powder composed of diamond, emerald, ruby, and sapphire dust with a total value of at least 5000 gp.

[Silverraptor]

From D20:
Restoration :: Diamond dust worth 100 gp that is sprinkled over the target.

Nondetection :: A pinch of diamond dust worth 50 gp.

Stoneskin ::Granite and 250 gp worth of diamond dust sprinkled on the target's skin.

Temporal Stasis :: A powder composed of diamond, emerald, ruby, and sapphire dust with a total value of at least 5000 gp.

Awwww... you beat me to it.:smallfrown:

[Raging Gene Ray]

Maybe he's picking it up for Durkon, just in case someone needs to be Raised again.

[Silverraptor]

Maybe he's picking it up for Durkon, just in case someone needs to be Raised again.

Then he'd need a whole diamond.

[Fluffles]

Or maybe the new-fangled idea that (s)he is once again researching spells!

[Forbiddenwar]

Greater anticipate teleport, diamond steel, and Hardening (Spell compendium) also takes diamond dust

[whitelaughter]

Any thoughts on the spell that requires rubies in the first panel?
The only spells I found were Forceacge (1.5K rubies) and Temporal Stasis (10k of diamonds, emeralds, rubies and sapphires). Nothing that required exactly 500gp worth of rubies.

[Forbiddenwar]

Then he'd need a whole diamond.

no. he doesn't. he needs diamonds worth a total of a set number of gold. it makes no difference if it is 1 diamond or 1,000,000 diamonds, each they size of a dust particle. So rezzing is an appropriate guess to this question.

[Forbiddenwar]

Any thoughts on the spell that requires rubies in the first panel?
The only spells I found were Forceacge (1.5K rubies) and Temporal Stasis (10k of diamonds, emeralds, rubies and sapphires). Nothing that required exactly 500gp worth of rubies.

Temporal stasis requires 5k worth of those jewels. perhaps they already have diamonds, emeralds and sapphires totaling 4.5 K gp in worth.

A simulacrum for a 5hd creature takes 500gp of rubies, powdered(which can be done after purchase)

EDIT:
RUBY RAY OF REVERSAL (SC) takes exactly 500 gp of rubies

[Trobby]

Incidentally, this is why they actually have a base market price *I think* in the DMG for stones like Rubies. :< Too bad this world is a "to the letter" representation of the common rules. Makes bartering pretty difficult.

Say, does the Wish spell require Diamonds? I think I remember it requiring diamonds.

(After doing a bit of searching)

Protection from Spells is 500 GP of diamond dust, but you're supposed to crush and sprinkle it as part of the spell.

Stoneskin was already mentioned

Oh! Symbol of Death requires powdered diamond and Opal, but that's probably what Turban-Man wanted it for, not V.

Symbol of Fear also requires powdered diamond and opal, 1,000 GP worth.

For that matter, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Persuasion, Symbol of Sleep, Symbol of Stunning, Symbol of Weakness, and Symbol of Insanity too...man, a lot of symbol spells require powdered diamonds and opals.

We've also got Undeath to Death with 500 GP powdered diamonds, but I think V barred Necromancy, right?

Other than that, any spell V would need Diamond Dust for is going to be outside the PHB.

[Forbiddenwar]

Incidentally, this is why they actually have a base market price *I think* in the DMG for stones like Rubies. :< Too bad this world is a "to the letter" representation of the common rules. Makes bartering pretty difficult.

Say, does the Wish spell require Diamonds? I think I remember it requiring diamonds.

(After doing a bit of searching)

Protection from Spells is 500 GP of diamond dust, but you're supposed to crush and sprinkle it as part of the spell.

Stoneskin was already mentioned

Oh! Symbol of Death requires powdered diamond and Opal, but that's probably what Turban-Man wanted it for, not V.

Symbol of Fear also requires powdered diamond and opal, 1,000 GP worth.

For that matter, Symbol of Pain, Symbol of Persuasion, Symbol of Sleep, Symbol of Stunning, Symbol of Weakness, and Symbol of Insanity too...man, a lot of symbol spells require powdered diamonds and opals.

We've also got Undeath to Death with 500 GP powdered diamonds, but I think V barred Necromancy, right?

Other than that, any spell V would need Diamond Dust for is going to be outside the PHB.

On Wish:
Material Component: When a wish duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 10,000 gp, you must provide that component.

[MickJay]

I'm wondering if the joke about rubies is in response to the few discussion that took place here about the value of diamonds needed for Resurrection (seems like it).

Bartering doesn't get more difficult - it's getting difficult when you need to use the precious stones for a spell. Imagine: you're in the middle of the desert; there's nobody to buy (or sell) anything for hundreds of miles, and you can't teleport out. You need water. In effect, your wealth is now totally worthless (worse, it just adds to encumbrance) - you can't cast spells which require "x gold worth of y". Or, alternatively, because gold is worthless as well, you can cast anything with minuscule amount of materials.

Similarly, if you buy a bunch of rubies for 500 gold, you can then demand 500 gold from other mages who want to cast the spell for a single ruby - the ruby was worth 500 to them, so they can cast the spell, and you're multiplying money. :smallwink:

[Shale]

Forget multiplying money, what happens if you demand the ruby back? Do you suddenly have 800 GP worth of rubies?

[Trobby]

Hence why most DMs don't actually use the barter system, and just let the players buy this sort of thing for base price.

Of course, Rubies HAVE a base price in the Treasure entry for the DMG...but "500 GP of rubies" Is still pretty universal. With enough ranks in Haggle, you could make a fortune off of a small bag of rubies.

[jcsw]

Using a spell searcher with "Diamonds" in the Material Components search:

Axiomatic Creature (M) (XP)
Barghest's Feast (M)
Death Pact (M)
Diamond Spray (M)
Diamondsteel (M)
Earth Lock (M)
Energy Transformation Field (M) (XP)
Expeditious Excavation (M) (F)
Glyph of Warding (M)
Greater Glyph of Warding (M)
Hardening (M)
Hidden Ward
Hindsight (M)
Ice Assassin (M) (XP)
Ilyykur's Mantle (M)
Invoke Magic (M)
Nondetection (M)
Protection from Spells (M) (F)
Raise Dead (M)
Rapid Raise Dead (M)
Rapid Resurrection (M)
Restoration (M)
Mass Restoration (M)
Resurrection (M)
Revive Outsider (M)
Revivify (M)
Stone Construct (M)
Stone Walk (M)
Stoneskin (M)
Symbol of Death (M)
Symbol of Fear (M)
Symbol of Insanity (M)
Symbol of Pain (M)
Symbol of Persuasion (M)
Symbol of Sleep (M)
Symbol of Stunning (M)
Symbol of Thirst (M)
Symbol of Weakness (M)
Temporal Stasis (M)
True Resurrection (M)
Undeath to Death (M)
Volcanic Storm (M)

[Optimystik]

Using a spell searcher with "Diamonds" in the Material Components search:

Axiomatic Creature (M) (XP)
Barghest's Feast (M)
Death Pact (M)
Diamond Spray (M)
Diamondsteel (M)
Earth Lock (M)
Energy Transformation Field (M) (XP)
Expeditious Excavation (M) (F)
Glyph of Warding (M)
Greater Glyph of Warding (M)
Hardening (M)
Hidden Ward
Hindsight (M) <---- Too bad, that one would have been VERY HANDY where they are going.
Ice Assassin (M) (XP)
Ilyykur's Mantle (M)
Invoke Magic (M)
Nondetection (M)
Protection from Spells (M) (F)
Raise Dead (M)
Rapid Raise Dead (M)
Rapid Resurrection (M)
Restoration (M)
Mass Restoration (M)
Resurrection (M)
Revive Outsider (M)
Revivify (M)
Stone Construct (M)
Stone Walk (M)
Stoneskin (M)
Symbol of Death (M)
Symbol of Fear (M)
Symbol of Insanity (M)
Symbol of Pain (M)
Symbol of Persuasion (M)
Symbol of Sleep (M)
Symbol of Stunning (M)
Symbol of Thirst (M)
Symbol of Weakness (M)
Temporal Stasis (M)
True Resurrection (M)
Undeath to Death (M)
Volcanic Storm (M)

Spells that are either 8th level+, not on the Wizard or Cleric spell list, or both, have been crossed out.

However, if the spell he is planning is one that can just use diamonds, why buy diamond dust specifically? I think he's planning a spell that needs the dust and not just diamonds.

[Ozymandias9]

Nondetection seems a good option: she's recently had an object lesson in the dangers of assuming no one is out to find him and get revenge.

[Dancing_Fox]

Nondetection seems a good option: she's recently had an object lesson in the dangers of assuming no one is out to find him and get revenge.

There's irony for you. It would have helped to of had that spell in operation BEFORE meeting the turbaned server.

Also, in most "real world" stores where small very expensive goods are sold, they are behind the counter and you don't walk around the shop with them in your hand and queue at the counter.

Off topic - probably rightly covered elsewhere already . . .

I wonder how V. was tracked down. Magically or not? If a process server could do it, how many others could as well?

How many days has it been between the dragon fight and being served? That's surely not just two days, is it? Or two days after the fight the legal process was begun - and it is now much, much later(?). (Maybe when I get time I'll look back at the recent comics.)

[Katana_Geldar]

What about ressurection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html)?

[MReav]

V mentioned that both V and Durkon needed it, so Ressurrection is a legitimate spell.

[Shale]

Can diamond dust substitute for whole diamonds in a revival spell?

[Herald Alberich]

Can diamond dust substitute for whole diamonds in a revival spell?

Logically, I'd say so. It's still the same amount of carbon arranged in a tetrahedral configuration that gives it great hardness and (it seems) potent magical ability, just in vast amounts of tiny crystals instead of a few big ones.

[The_Weirdo]

Using a spell searcher with "Diamonds" in the Material Components search:
Undeath to Death (M)


Gee. Why would a party whose main enemy is a lich have need for such a spell?

[kpenguin]

Gee. Why would a party whose main enemy is a lich have need for such a spell?

Because lichs, being undead are vulnerable to said spell?:smallconfused:

[Souhiro]

Undeath to Death:
(Cleric / Sorcerer 6) (niggomant)

The spell slays 1d4 HD worth of undeath creatures per caster level (maximum 20d4). Creatures with the fewest HD are affected first; among creatures with equal HD, those who are closest to the burst’s point of origin are affected first. No creature of 9 or more HD can be affected, and Hit Dice that are not sufficient to affect a creature are wasted.

As Xykon's level is 21 or more, he has more Hit Dice that the Spell can affect, and as there is a Will Save to this spell, buta nonEpic, Lv20 sorcerer has a +12 Will Save. So it's unlikely that they want to slay the poor Xykon with it. It's more to use it against the hordes of zombies.

[Undead Prince]

RESTORATION would be essential against an opponent who delights in draining levels (i.e. Energy Drain & Enervation).

Nondetection and Resurrection were already mentioned.

Off the bat, I would say these are the big 3 spells V and Durkon might need diamond dust for.

[Silverraptor]

And considering that they can no longer get the diamond dust...

[Trobby]

And considering that they can no longer get the diamond dust...

Indeed. The ultimate tragedy of this thread is that none of us will ever, ever know.

Unless V gets the Diamond Dust from another vendor.

[Shale]

They can't? Durkon isn't allowed to buy things?

We thought Beardy McTurbanguy was going to take the dust for himself, but that turned out not to be his goal at all, so it's still sitting on the shelf. V just needs somebody who isn't barred from the store to buy it.

[MReav]

They can't? Durkon isn't allowed to buy things?

We thought Beardy McTurbanguy was going to take the dust for himself, but that turned out not to be his goal at all, so it's still sitting on the shelf. V just needs somebody who isn't barred from the store to buy it.

Yeah, but Diamond Dust is in high demand for adventurers. By the time V finds Durkon, the Dust will be taken, considering it was last in the store.

[Undead Prince]

Yeah, but Diamond Dust is in high demand for adventurers. By the time V finds Durkon, the Dust will be taken, considering it was last in the store.

I doubt the author will abandon the set-up so easily, though. Diamond dust and the plan that goes with it will surely resurface at some point in the future.

What it shows, though, is that V & Durkon, being the group's main spellcasters (if Elan can be considered a spellcaster at all), have apparently worked out a plan to defeat Xykon using dd. What is left open, is whether Xykon intends to take his own tactics to the next level, thus surprising our heroes, or be complacent & thoroughly preoccupied with his phylactery.

[Kcalehc]

So if one were to artificially deflate the price for a certain precious gem, such that the amount of gems worth the value to cast a spell was prohibitively large then you could conceivably limit the casting of the spell to very few able to carry such huge amounts of gems.

e.g. diamonds become 1gp for 10,000 medium sized ones. A spell requiring 1000gp of diamonds would require the caster to lug around an inordinately large amount of diamonds. Making it hard to be able to cast more than once, if at all.

[fangthane]

I doubt the author will abandon the set-up so easily, though. Diamond dust and the plan that goes with it will surely resurface at some point in the future.

What it shows, though, is that V & Durkon, being the group's main spellcasters (if Elan can be considered a spellcaster at all), have apparently worked out a plan to defeat Xykon using dd. What is left open, is whether Xykon intends to take his own tactics to the next level, thus surprising our heroes, or be complacent & thoroughly preoccupied with his phylactery.

Xykon would likely be complacent enough to leave things as they sit, I suspect, but Left-Eye will probably be working security since he's still the only one competent and willing to deal with the details. I'm not sure what the concept will be, but so far we've seen him predict the need for arcane protection within the Cloister, come up with some intelligent angles on elemental summoning, and generally be the competent underling who gets necessary (but often boring) jobs done. Unless he's holding an uncharacteristic grudge (see SoD spoiler below) that's not going to change.



Since he didn't strike out on his own then, and indeed was willing, even if under duress, to zombify his own brother, it's fair to say that he's unlikely to take any sort of revenge for the recent personal slight - at least until the Plan is either out of reach or a fait accompli.
I'd guess that at least one fake phylactery is a gimme, though without knowing how the specifics are going to run, any assumption about Redcloak's defensive planning is questionable.

[Ted The Bug]

Diamond dust could be used for a resurrection.
Even specifically mentioned in panel 6. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html)

[Aldrakan]

e.g. diamonds become 1gp for 10,000 medium sized ones. A spell requiring 1000gp of diamonds would require the caster to lug around an inordinately large amount of diamonds. Making it hard to be able to cast more than once, if at all.

Yep. A good reason to either just say prices are fixed, or if the players start messing with the economy, start operating on a different system.

I doubt the diamond dust is for resurrection though, a regular diamond would be more standard and if cut, size etc. has any effect 5000 gp of diamond dust would take up a lot more room than a 5000 gp diamond.
That said, they should probably take some pains to get their hands on some more diamonds, the cast page doesn't have another one to steal.

[PanNarrans]

That's a point; does the D&D pricing system value a single large diamond more than the same weight of diamond dust?
It only matters in the real world because big diamonds are pretty and that's what sets the price; in the D&D world, the price is more to do with demand from spellcasters.
Unless large diamonds are require for 'focusing' the spell or somesuch.

[pendell]

I remind the readers that there is a high-level rogue in the party. If diamond dust they need, diamond dust they shall have. It's all to the better if some other adventurer has bought it first. An adventuring party has to be an easier target than a magic shop.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shale]

I just had a thought. Couldn't diamond dust be the material component for the mass protection from negative energy spell Durkon was going to research?

[Herald Alberich]

I just had a thought. Couldn't diamond dust be the material component for the mass protection from negative energy spell Durkon was going to research?

I think that's quite likely. It would fit with V saying both he and Durkon needed it - if you're going to research magic, even divine magic, getting a wizard to help is a great idea. It would also allow V to start correcting the deficiencies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html) in his knowledge of divine magic ...:smallamused:

[Prowl]

Diamond dust could be used for a resurrection.
Even specifically mentioned in panel 6. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html)

Wow, you have a great eye. I never would have spotted that, and I thought I had a pretty thorough knowledge of this comic.

[ericgrau]

Nothing like the www.d20srd.org search tool:

stoneskin, 250 gp
nondetection, 50 gp (single target, stops scrying for a few hours)
protection from spells, 500 gp (+8 to saves)
undeath to death, 500 gp (undead in 40 foot circle make fort save or destroyed)

restoration, 100 gp (cleric only)
raise dead, 5000 gp (cleric only)
ressurection, 10000 gp (cleric only)

That is all of them. Roy told the order to split up and do some shopping, so in all likelihood everyone is only shopping for themselves. IMO stoneskin is still the best candidate.

[Forbiddenwar]

Roy told the order to split up and do some shopping, so in all likelihood everyone is only shopping for themselves. IMO stoneskin is still the best candidate.

Except: "My Dwarven Companion and I require that diamond dust"

and there are also: symbol spells, and temporarl stasis, and other spells. the spells that require diamonds are far too numerous to list. If we are restricted to core, my money is on Undeath to death, or Protection from spells.

[ericgrau]

Ooh, nice catch. If both V and Durkon need the dust, then I'd say it must be restoration and stoneskin. Maybe a nondetection. Or a custom spell.

The spells listed require other gems as well, and a much higher value. Of course that means ressurection and raise dead are out too. They don't require the diamond to be powdered anyway.

EDIT: Okay, fine, you made me do another search and I found the following spell that I missed before:
glyph of warding, 200 gp

[Zolkabro]

And considering that they can no longer get the diamond dust...

Oh yes they can.
Last panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html)