If Durkon dies and is raised...

[whitelaughter]

Will he become Chaotic Good? With an emphasis on Chaotic?

As I understand the situation:
Clerics go to their bosses home plane when they die, where they are petitioners.
Petitioners have the same alignment as the plane; the local gods normally also do.
Thor is Chaotic Good (At least in Deities and Demigods) and dwells on Ysgard: the plane is Chaotic(Goodish).

So he dies, becomes Chaotic Goodish, is Raised, but has nothing to return him to his mortal alignment?

It could be amusing to have the rest of the party settling down and becoming more responsible only to have Durkon become the party nutter.

(And V could Clone Durkon: it's cheaper than Raising him anyway).

[FujinAkari]

No he won't. :P

[Trobby]

Aww..I was hoping this would be a discussion on if Durkon dies and is raised, would it fulfill the Oracle's requirements for him to go home.

Seeing how the afterlife works on OotS, I think they'll make an exception for Durkon.

[Cracklord]

So was I. I have so many good arguments...

[Kish]

There is no indication that you necessarily go to your deity's home plane when you die in the OotS universe. Durkon may well be shocked and dismayed when he arrives at the celestial realm, asks after Thor, and is told that he's over in the Chaotic Good afterlife*, but his own alignment won't be forcibly changed.

That said, I have another question, related to the last two posts.

Is there anyone at all on this board who thinks Durkon dying and being raised would not satisfy the Oracle's prophecy?

*Note: This is not based on what it says in Deities and Demigods, which is irrelevant to OotS until and unless Rich says it isn't, but Thor's in-comic behavior has convinced me he's not Lawful.

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

Problem is, Thor can't be CG, because Durkon is LG.

Of course, it's moot anyways, since I don't think that "petitioner" rule applies in the OotSverse. Where did you get that anyways?

[Porthos]

Problem is, Thor can't be CG, because Durkon is LG.

Sure he can be. After all, there is ZERO evidence that OotSWorld follows the One Step Rule. :smallsmile:

Trust me, this topic has been debated to death (and raised again) so many times that it would have qualified for Final Death in AD&D. :smallwink:

[whitelaughter]

Of course, it's moot anyways, since I don't think that "petitioner" rule applies in the OotSverse. Where did you get that anyways?
Now out of date rule books, which is why I want more up to date info.

[Starscream]

I would buy that Thor is NG in the Order's universe. He certainly isn't lawful himself, but seems to command the respect of a lot of lawful dwarfs.

Although the fact that he is bearded, likes his ale, and swings a hammer could have something to do with that.

[Thanatosia]

Sure he can be. After all, there is ZERO evidence that OotSWorld follows the One Step Rule.
Given that the whole Premise of the OOTS setting is that its set in a universe that adhere the rules of D&D the way ours does the laws of physics, wouldn't adherance to a rule be assumed unless given directly contradictory evidence?

I think Thor being NG is a safer bet then the One Step rule being ignored.

[David Argall]

I believe we have WOG that Thor is somehow LG in OOTS.

[Porthos]

Given that the whole Premise of the OOTS setting is that its set in a universe that adhere the rules of D&D the way ours does the laws of physics, wouldn't adherance to a rule be assumed unless given directly contradictory evidence?

I think Thor being NG is a safer bet then the One Step rule being ignored.

Sigh. Here we go again. :smallsmile:

Problem is that in the limited number of appearances of Thor, he has acted in a textbook CG fashion. And next to no NG fashion.

In fact, as near as I can tell, the only reason people think Thor is NG is that the One Step Rule demands it. I highly doubt that people would be looking for evidence that Thor is NG if they weren't predisposed to believing it thanks to DnD rules.

But since we already have blatant houseruling in Order of the Stick (height of goblins and Celia for two), I fail to see why there can't be some sort of House Rule that says, for instance, that dwarves can worship any Norse god they want. Or, say, any good person can worship and good god they want.


I believe we have WOG that Thor is somehow LG in OOTS.

We went through this the last time this came up, David. :smallsmile:

There is absolutley no Word of God statement on the alignment status of Thor. I even dug through the Google/Wayback Machine archives to check.

The only thing we DO know is that OotS Thor <> DnD Thor. Rich said that he was based more on the Marvel Thor than anything else.

But the idea that Thor is LG is some sort of Forum Telephone Game/Myth that has persisited no matter how much people (i.e. me :smalltongue:) try to stamp it out.

EDIT:::

Here's the last thread on the subject (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107820).

And Rich's thoughts on the Thor/Durkon dynamic. (http://web.archive.org/web/20070220022000/http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7283) (post #21) :smallsmile:

[Linkavitch]

I believe we have WOG that Thor is somehow LG in OOTS.

WordOfGiant?

[Spiky]

I'm a little confused on how anyone knows Thor's alignment in OOTS. I probably missed a thread discussing it in detail for 7 months or something. But frankly, we've only seen Thor while drunk, so pretty much all of his actions can be based on alcohol rather than the alignment system.

[Optimystik]

1) Going to your deity's plane on death (regardless of alignment) is a Forgotten Realms setting trait. OotS seems to follow the Greyhawk (i.e. core) system of your destination being dependent on alignment.

So a CE and CN might both worship Loki. In FR they would go to the same place after death, in Greyhawk they would not.

2) Durkon is definitely LG. We know he is Good, and we know he is extremely lawful, both by Miko's comments in the strip and the HP of Odin's in SoD.

3) Thor's alignment is less certain. Yes his official stats are CG, but as Porthos' quote points out, the Giant isn't using those. However, his behavior seems pretty CG as well. I'm going with either CG (complete with a handwave for the "one-step" cleric rule) or NG (which would allow Durkon to serve him in full accordance with the rule.)

[Freelance Henchman]

Does the OOTS-verse even use the standard D&D planes?

[Optimystik]

Does the OOTS-verse even use the standard D&D planes?

It has Celestia, Limbo, Mechanus and a Blood War... so I'd say yes, it uses the core ones at least. The deva didn't actually name the "TN Afterlife" either, but the fact that she names it after its alignment indicates they are definitely using the Greyhawk model rather than the FR model.

(It certainly isn't using Eberron; no trains. :smallwink:)

[Kobold-Bard]

OotS Thor is assumed to be N/G, Neutral in the sense that he swings from Chaotic to Lawful, rather than adheres to neutrality.

So Durkon would come back L/G, unless time in Thor's house turned him to the Neutral path.

[Ozymandias9]

If we were using the FR model of people going to their deity's planes, Roy would have ended up in the Wall of the Faithless. The Wall is so phenomenally unpopular as a setting element, that I would be hesitant to assume that any thing, ever, even if its an actual FR play-test run by WotC, used standard FR cosmology. At lease until some evidence is presented that it does.

I'm with Optimystic on this one: the cosmology is most similar to Greyhawk. Its certainly isn't fluffed quite the same way, but the basic structure is there.

It's certainly not any of the other common settings. If it were FR Roy would have been in the Wall getting his Roy-ness slowly drained away till he was featureless shell of a soul. If it were Eberon he'd have ended up in Dolurrh, sitting around bored for all eternity. If it were Dragonlance he would have ended up in the River of Souls.

[Berserk Monk]

(And V could Clone Durkon: it's cheaper than Raising him anyway).

Doesn't cloning require a lab and months of preparation?