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thubby
2009-09-11, 11:20 PM
what happens if you open a portable hole on a wall, put something in, then open it on the floor? would the opening be on the "ceiling" of the space or would everything inside now be standing differently?

it gets even weirder if you are inside and then try to open it on a different wall.
what happens? :smallconfused:

edit: and what happens if you open it on a curved surface?

hotel_papa
2009-09-12, 01:10 AM
I was always under the impression that a portable hole could only be accessed if laid out upon a flat surface parallel to the ground.

jseah
2009-09-12, 01:26 AM
It's magic. Badly thought out magic.

The portable hole description doesn't mention any requirements other than a flat surface. Technically it'll open if you sovereign glue it to a piece of cardboard.

Ever wonder what happens if you stick a long iron pole into a portable hole (longer than the hole is deep)
and then you fold up the hole, shutting the portal while the stick is halfway through?


Much wondering about the nature of gravity and various portal tricks led to the nastiness that is in this thread:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of

EDIT: it was mostly my fault, but meh.

EDIT2: actually it doesn't even need a flat surface. It says "a surface". not specifying "flat"

ShadowFighter15
2009-09-12, 01:29 AM
Much wondering about the nature of gravity and various portal tricks led to the nastiness that is in this thread:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of

EDIT: it was mostly my fault, but meh.

What's the catgirl kill-count so far for that thread, or are they not using theoretical physics?

jseah
2009-09-12, 01:49 AM
Surprisingly low.

No one bothered to do the calculations with relativity since space decided to flip out and go crazy. Most of it was just speculation mixed with some (un)common sense and a basic understanding of space-time.

thubby
2009-09-12, 01:50 AM
Ever wonder what happens if you stick a long iron pole into a portable hole (longer than the hole is deep)
and then you fold up the hole, shutting the portal while the stick is halfway through?

we do have precedent for that at least. effects that leave a creature or object in such a state typically shunt it to the nearest unoccupied space and deal damage based on the distance traveled to get there.

ShadowFighter15
2009-09-12, 02:02 AM
we do have precedent for that at least. effects that leave a creature or object in such a state typically shunt it to the nearest unoccupied space and deal damage based on the distance traveled to get there.

Didn't VALVe do that with Portal?

jseah
2009-09-12, 02:17 AM
we do have precedent for that at least. effects that leave a creature or object in such a state typically shunt it to the nearest unoccupied space and deal damage based on the distance traveled to get there.

XD Which side then? Does it go into the portable hole or outside the hole?

Besides, it's not a "teleporting into another object" problem. It's a half-here and half-not problem.

Also, envision this problem:
A portable hole is open on the floor, I stick a 8ft iron pole into it with 2 ft sticking out of the hole. (it's 6ft deep IIRC)
Then you pour concrete over the whole thing to make no space for the iron pole other than where it is right now.
I shut the hole. (say with a Burrowing Power Psionic Dispel)

Where does the pole go? It can't fit into the hole and there's no space outside the hole for the pole. Oops...

thubby
2009-09-12, 02:17 AM
Didn't VALVe do that with Portal?

unpatched, you could actually seriously screw up the game if you turned off a portal you were partially through.

but i was referring to spells like Ethereal Jaunt, Meld into Stone, blink, etc.

jseah
2009-09-12, 02:21 AM
If you say the pole just gets shunted to the nearest open space from the concrete mound...

Here's the problem again:

I'm on a private demiplane with no portals into it or out of it. The only way in is Plane Shift.

I do the same thing as above, but fill the ENTIRE demiplane with concrete. Not a problem since it's only ~ten feet in diameter. Now there's no space anywhere for the pole...

Where does it go then? XDXD

Alleine
2009-09-12, 11:55 AM
I always figure that portable holes worked like anything else you store stuff in, only its non-dimensional. You open it on the floor and put something on the bottom, you see the top of it. You open it on the side of a wall and you see the top of the object. Nothing changes except where you have the hole.

Yahzi
2009-09-12, 11:59 AM
I always figure that portable holes worked like anything else you store stuff in, only its non-dimensional. You open it on the floor and put something on the bottom, you see the top of it. You open it on the side of a wall and you see the top of the object. Nothing changes except where you have the hole.
Right - and when you open the hole, the local gravity of your space trumps the gravity of the micro-plane where the stuff actually is.

Makes perfect sense to me. :smallcool:

Alleine
2009-09-12, 12:09 PM
Right - and when you open the hole, the local gravity of your space trumps the gravity of the micro-plane where the stuff actually is.

Is there a rule that states that?

Siosilvar
2009-09-12, 12:12 PM
Where does it go then? XDXD

To the Prime Material Plane.
Alternately, the Astral.

jseah
2009-09-12, 01:15 PM
To the Prime Material Plane.
Alternately, the Astral.
Ahah! But then, you have the question:
How much damage does the thing take? Or, in other words, how far did it travel to get there?


Right - and when you open the hole, the local gravity of your space trumps the gravity of the micro-plane where the stuff actually is.

Makes perfect sense to me. :smallcool:
And deal falling damage to everything inside by placing it on a rotating platform and alternate the up/down directions every second or so? I don't think that's intended.

And if that is the case, you have VERY strange things going on if you bend the hole.

Like a circular tube of water will have a continuous current if you bend it right.

Or that you can go back to where you started by only turning 270*. And never having to go against gravity.

Or much much more nastier things.

bosssmiley
2009-09-14, 07:01 AM
what happens if you open a portable hole on a wall, put something in, then open it on the floor? would the opening be on the "ceiling" of the space or would everything inside now be standing differently?

it gets even weirder if you are inside and then try to open it on a different wall.
what happens? :smallconfused:

edit: and what happens if you open it on a curved surface?

Looney Tunes physics applies. Let the experimenter beware. :smallbiggrin:

Sliver
2009-09-14, 07:19 AM
Bah, I just like to think of it as a portable door to some room, if you put it on the floor you see the room from above, if you put it on a door, its like a door..

thubby
2009-09-14, 08:33 AM
Bah, I just like to think of it as a portable door to some room, if you put it on the floor you see the room from above, if you put it on a door, its like a door..

except the portal is deeper than it is wide.
and that still doesn't address opening the portal from the inside.

kamikasei
2009-09-14, 08:47 AM
it gets even weirder if you are inside and then try to open it on a different wall.
what happens? :smallconfused:

How would you do that?

I would have thought that if closed from the inside, it was completely isolated from the outside world and therefore could only be opened at the same spot as it was when you closed it. There's nothing for someone outside the hole to pick up and move around to a different surface.

Or do you mean, if you're inside the hole and you close it, what happens if you then open it at a different spot on the inside? If so, my answer is that there's only one opening on the inside of the hole.

Here's how I'd handle it: You can open the hole on any flat surface. It opens on to a 10'-deep shaft perpendicular to the plane of the surface. When opened, gravity within the hole is whatever it is outside. When closed, it retains the gravity from its last opening. Thus, you drop something in to the hole, close it up, open it on the ceiling and have the thing fall out, but in between it doesn't get jostled about. If you open it on a curved surface, the shaft's perpendicularity works off the centre of the circle of cloth, and if the surface is so highly curved that the cloth loops back under itself then those parts just remain cloth and the opening is correspondingly narrower.

As to "what happens if you close it around something too large to fit in it"... how are you closing it if the thing is too large? Wouldn't it extend out of the opening and prevent you from drawing it shut?