Frog familiars

[JonahFalcon]

No, really, a frog familiar?

[Eco-Mono]

No, really, a frog familiar?
Maybe he's from 3.0 and had the +2 CON grandfathered in when they updated.

[FujinAkari]

Why not? Its legit...

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Everybody says Frog Familiar? like it's completely impossible for an amphibian to live in an arid region, but the Sonoran Desert Toad (Bufo alvarius) (http://www.desertmuseum.org/books/nhsd_desert_toad.php) is fairly common in the SouthWest.

Just thought I'd throw that out there...

[JonahFalcon]

No, really. What are you going to ask a frog to do?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

No, really. What are you going to ask a frog to do?

OK, I haven't messed much with Familiars in 3.X, but way back in 1st Edition, having a frog familiar gave the Magic User wide-angle vision... Being able to see in almost all directions greatly reduced the possibilities of being ambushed.

Not the most spectacular bonus ability, but with darn few spells and hitpoints, low level spellcasters needed all the help they could get!

Edit for D20 SRD:

In 3.X, the Wizard or Sorceror gains 3 hp. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm) For Mr. Turban, if he is in the habit of picking fights over spell componants, he probably needs all the help he can get! :smallwink:

1st Ed allowed for four "Magical" familiars, Brownie (LG), pseudo-dragon (CG), Quasit (CE) and Imp (LE). Needless to say, I changed alignments on my character sheet as soon as I found out, and substituted the pseudo dragon for the brownie! Dragons are WAY cooler than a little elf guy!

[gibbo88]

It won't matter what he might use it for, it will only be remembered when there is something for which it can be used.

[rewinn]

No, really, a frog familiar?
Perhaps a poison toad, a kind that one touch sends you into drug-induced hallucinations?

Very useful for potions and/or throwing in someone's soft, unprotected face!

[Starscream]

Maybe there are lots of flies in the desert and he does this instead of wearing corks around his turban?

[Volkov]

Hey +2 con for free is an enormous bonus to any wizard. That's why they had to nerf it to a mere +3 hit points in 3.5, it was simply too good, which turned the toad from the familiar everyone wanted, into what is effectively a free toughness feat.

I however, keep a houserule that it gives +1 hit points per hit dice, gives a +1 bonus to fortitude saving throws and constitution based checks, as well as +2 consitution.

Although in my campaigns familiars, special mounts, animal companions, and any other creatures you get as a class feature that get stronger with you, are a good deal more powerful than in a normal one, and you can get them with feats.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I however, keep a houserule that it gives +1 hit points per hit dice, gives a +1 bonus to fortitude saving throws and constitution based checks, as well as +2 consitution.

So... essentially +4 Constitution?

[Jair Barik]

The OotS world started out as 3e and then got updated to 3.5 first strip didn't it? Perhaps the guy took frog as a familiar for the bonus Constitution despite it not fitting his character in the slightest (or fitting it perfectly dependant upon how you see this) in order for the constitution buff. Since the update he just hasn't changed it on account of not wanting to risk exp damage and not wanting to have to wait a whole year for a new one

[Volkov]

So... essentially +4 Constitution?
Yes. Yes it is.

[Trobby]

I think you are all missing the much bigger picture here.

This is a guy who is so wise as to pick a fight with Vaarsuvius, a mage known for solving his problems with Disintegrate. Choosing a Toad familiar clearly is the least of his bad decisions.

Though it does expand the world a bit, giving us something beyond the usual "Raven Raven Raven Raven Raven" choice for familiars. (I'm partial to the Viper, myself.)

[JaxGaret]

No, really. What are you going to ask a frog to do?

Look cute, hop around, crack a joke. Not everything has to be about combat effectiveness or non-combat utility, you know.

That said, I'm sure that a resourceful Wizard can find some good uses to put a frog to.

[Kupi]

Don't forget that in the OotS world, people don't have the PHB on hand and access to the Internet's character optimization message boards. People can either make sub-optimal choices, or have said choices made for them. A Wizard's familiar is an extension of their personality (at least, that's how they're depicted), so regardless of whatever bonuses a given type of familiar might afford, it's totally appropriate for the bloated, self-important Turban Guy to have a familiar that mostly just sits around looking like a pile of warts and eating whatever gets too close.

[Linkavitch]

Look cute, hop around, crack a joke. Not everything has to be about combat effectiveness or non-combat utility, you know.

That said, I'm sure that a resourceful Wizard can find some good uses to put a frog to.

Yeah, who would expect a frog sitting on the wall to actually be a spy for a powerful wizard? Probably would've worked better at the Bandit's camp than Blackwing.

[JonahFalcon]

Why do I have a vision of that wizard screaming, "GO FOR THE EYES, BOO! THE EYES!!!!"

[Bibliomancer]

I think you are all missing the much bigger picture here.

This is a guy who is so wise as to pick a fight with Vaarsuvius, a mage known for solving his problems with Disintegrate. Choosing a Toad familiar clearly is the least of his bad decisions.

Though it does expand the world a bit, giving us something beyond the usual "Raven Raven Raven Raven Raven" choice for familiars. (I'm partial to the Viper, myself.)

Ravens are common? In campaigns I've played in, it's been hawk or owl for Spot boosts and impressive appearance.

[Volkov]

I think you are all missing the much bigger picture here.

This is a guy who is so wise as to pick a fight with Vaarsuvius, a mage known for solving his problems with Disintegrate. Choosing a Toad familiar clearly is the least of his bad decisions.

Though it does expand the world a bit, giving us something beyond the usual "Raven Raven Raven Raven Raven" choice for familiars. (I'm partial to the Viper, myself.)




Maybe he's from 3.0 and had the +2 CON grandfathered in when they updated.

Read this counter-argument please.

[Berserk Monk]

No, really, a frog familiar?

Giving you +3 HP which is really good for a wizard/sorcerer because you use a d4 as a hit dice and you're not proficient in any armor which would give you an arcane spell failure.

[Avilan the Grey]

Wizard's familiar is an extension of their personality (at least, that's how they're depicted)

I really like it when this is actually enforced; unlike CRPGs, that usually means 110% optimization and about 4 familiars to choose from, a DM can suggest 2-3 different familiars depending on the PCs history and stats...

Interesting familiars for wizards would be owls, tarantulas, ravens, crows, toads, frogs, rats, small dogs (this would work, for a small terrier breed etc which is no bigger than a cat).

[Scarlet Knight]

Maybe the frog is a cursed prince and his loyal wizard is looking to turn him back with... um, diamond dust? :smallconfused:

[JonahFalcon]

Frog witnesses. Woo!

[rewinn]

Frog witnesses. Woo!
Courts universally recognize their testimony as toadily reliable!

[donkyhotay]

Courts universally recognize their testimony as toadily reliable!

You should feel sheepish, that was so baaad.

[JonahFalcon]

Courts universally recognize their testimony as toadily reliable!

That was bad, you're going to get totally ribbit.

[Bago!!!]

So... Its a frog? I thought it was a toad.....

In any case, three hitpoints is pretty good early on when you have 1d4 hit die and need whatever you can get. Not only that, how many people expect a toad to be a familiar? And to top it all off, it causes him to stand out from other spellcasters with familiars. So many people pick birds, followed by snake.

[JonahFalcon]

So... Its a frog? I thought it was a toad.....

Toads don't go "ribbit". They go "errrrrrrrbap".

[Bago!!!]

But this is a familiar.... Could it not have said that simply for the sake of a joke?

[GSFB]

1) It is toad, not a frog.

2) Frogs live in deserts.

3) As they teleported away, there is no reason to think they live here anyway.

4) 3.0 or 3.5, more HP is always a good thing.

5) It isn't necessarily a familiar anyway (see the thread on the bearded guy).

6) Picking a fight with V is not necessarily a sign of stupidity if he has high HP and good saves (again, see other thread).

7) Neville Longbottom has a pet toad. Someone had to go there.

[Shmigor]

Hear, hear to Neville and Trevor! I'd have to say, though, that it could be totally stylistic rather then having anything to do with the stats. (Although from a lower-level standpoint, +3 HP is nothing to scoff about. Maybe he picked the toad when he was a low level without considering how it would help him in the long run?)

[GSFB]

So, this frog walks into a magic shop and says:

"Can you help me out? I've got a wizard stuck on my foot!"

[Nimrod's Son]

Toads don't go "ribbit". They go "errrrrrrrbap".
Frogs and toads make an enormous range of vocalisations depending on the type. Interestingly, almost all frogs don't go "Ribbit":


[T]he reason why most people believe that all frogs go "Ribbit" is because this is the noise made by the Southern Pacific tree frog, which is the frog that lives in Hollywood. It was recorded locally and put on all of the movies for 30-40 years, in all manner of locations, despite the fact that it is the only frog in the world that goes "Ribbit".
From here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6928750

Also:

Other than the spelling, and the fact that toads have drier lives, there is no real difference between a frog and a toad.

And Stephen Fry is ALWAYS RIGHT, as any fule kno.

[fangthane]

No, really. What are you going to ask a frog to do?

How 'bout putting on a little top hat and cane and do The Michigan Rag or something? :)

Not that he'd do it, mind you, not when anyone else was looking at least...

[daggaz]

Hey +2 con for free is an enormous bonus to any wizard. That's why they had to nerf it to a mere +3 hit points in 3.5, it was simply too good, which turned the toad from the familiar everyone wanted, into what is effectively a free toughness feat.

I however, keep a houserule that it gives +1 hit points per hit dice, gives a +1 bonus to fortitude saving throws and constitution based checks, as well as +2 consitution.

Although in my campaigns familiars, special mounts, animal companions, and any other creatures you get as a class feature that get stronger with you, are a good deal more powerful than in a normal one, and you can get them with feats.


Wow.. I mean, just wow. Considering you can keep one in your pockets and out of harms way, that makes a one dip level in wizard pretty much essential for any serious melee build. Barbarian ten? Pick up a lvl in wizard next dude, you get an instant 22 hps on TOP of the four you grab from wizard, plus the spells.

You arent by any chance the author of lightning warrior, are you? Suddenly the whole justification makes sense.:smallamused::smallconfused:

[daggaz]

Frogs and toads make an enormous range of vocalisations depending on the type. Interestingly, almost all frogs don't go "Ribbit":.


LOL, love the hollywood explanation, but right cmon.. its a freaking literation of a sound into the english alphabet that not only varies completely from species to species, but is also totally up to the observer to choose a spelling for. Ribbit could just as easily sound ree-deet or eeeb-beep or anything, considering the frogs dont actually pronounce the consonants in any way discernable, and the vowels probably dont technically fit into our own range. Faaar more likely the spelling just became a cultural popularity choice, perhaps in a childrens book or nursery rhyme. They go Kuark or kvark in Denmark, im sure in germany the same frogs say something entirely different.

Anyhow, as we all know, frogs go "knee-deep," after the man who famously came home three days late and soaking wet, without a truck, from his hunting trip. His wife demanded to know what had happened, and he said, "Well, I got to a spot on the road where a creek had come up over the banks and blocked the way, and I got out and was testing the water for depth, when I see this frog out there so I yell, ´Hey Frog, How deep is the water??´"

And the frog answered, "Knee-Deep! Knee-Deep!"

PS sorry for double post, still trying to find the elusive double quote.

[t_catt11]

How 'bout putting on a little top hat and cane and do The Michigan Rag or something? :)

Not that he'd do it, mind you, not when anyone else was looking at least...

You ninja'd me on this! :smallbiggrin:

Hmph, you whippersnappers and your choosing of familiars! Why, in my day, you rolled a die, the DM looked it up on the table, and BAM! There's your familiar! We took our toads, weasels, and 25% chance of no familiar at all being available... and we LIKED IT.

[silvadel]

Sounds almost like golden compass if the familiars were extensions of the personalities of the mage.

[Zolkabro]

Courts universally recognize their testimony as toadily reliable!

Oh god. That's... that's horrible.
I feel dirty inside.

[pflare]

Ravens are common? In campaigns I've played in, it's been hawk or owl for Spot boosts and impressive appearance.

I have to agree depending on whether your going to be adventuring in primarily light of dark areas Hawk and Owl are the best. It prevents the spell caster from having Belkar-like spot checks

[Scarlet Knight]

Face it, a frog familiar is absolutely wartless!

:smallbiggrin:

[The Dark Fiddler]

PS sorry for double post, still trying to find the elusive double quote.

Open everything you wish to quote in new tabs (or windows, if you lack tabs) and copy-paste the quotes into one post.

[David Argall]

I have to agree depending on whether your going to be adventuring in primarily light of dark areas Hawk and Owl are the best. It prevents the spell caster from having Belkar-like spot checks
As Blackwing is now showing, the raven is excellent for roleplay purposes. The bonus to spot is very nice, but at the upper levels, it is likely to be not enough to make a difference. The ability to talk, and argue, with yourself is useful at any level.

[Nimrod's Son]

LOL, love the hollywood explanation, but right cmon.. its a freaking literation of a sound into the english alphabet that not only varies completely from species to species, but is also totally up to the observer to choose a spelling for. Ribbit could just as easily sound ree-deet or eeeb-beep or anything, considering the frogs dont actually pronounce the consonants in any way discernable, and the vowels probably dont technically fit into our own range. Faaar more likely the spelling just became a cultural popularity choice, perhaps in a childrens book or nursery rhyme. They go Kuark or kvark in Denmark, im sure in germany the same frogs say something entirely different.
The fact that different languages or cultures would spell "Ribbit" differently is irrelevant. Here (http://www.bear-tracker.com/treefrog.html) is the call I was talking about, the one that most people would immediately think of as the "classic" frog call. But there's nothing "classic" about it - that call belongs to one type of frog only, and it's thanks to Hollywood that it's so commonly known.

For comparison, Here (http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/topics/frogCalls.html) is a selection of different frog calls, almost all of which belong to other North American species. As you can hear, the range of calls is extremely broad, but you'd be severely stretching credibility to say that "Ribbit" can be used to describe any of them.

[GSFB]

I don't think the +2 CON for a toad familiar is overpowered at all.

First off, other familiars can fly and, especially at higher levels, have good attacking ability. A buffed up falcon is like having a mid-level warrior body guard. And a familiar that can fly can deliver touch spells at a distance for you. And can deliver messages far away. And can spy very, very well (especially when you add telepathy).

That is pretty wicked.

Sure, your toad can do some of this. But. Well. IT'S A TOAD!

It's not like the toad gives you +2 CON in addition to all the other awesome stuff.

Most players have anything else as a familiar. That alone should be evidence that it isn't overpowered.

Yes, you might be able to min-max some bizzare multiclass with a level of wizard just to get the extra HP. And at level 20, that could mean 20 extra HP and you always get +1 FORT. So what? You also lose +1 to your BAB and probably also lose a +1 to your FORT from the multiclass, making it a wash on saves. OK, you get the +2 to WILL as a wizard... but still... can't cast spells with armor, sucky skill points... I just don't see it being viable, even for a meat shield. You'd be better off using a monster race with +1 ECL that gave you the CON bonus (and probably something else on top of it) than taking a level in wizard just to use the toad.

Also, if anyone kills your toad, you lose the extra HP. If you are already wounded in battle, killing your toad might kill YOU.

[AxeD]

Why do I have a vision of that wizard screaming, "GO FOR THE EYES, BOO! THE EYES!!!!"

Nice :smallbiggrin: