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View Full Version : Deep Gnomes LA (3.5)



Sharkman1231
2009-09-12, 10:59 AM
So the deep gnomes have a +3 LA, If I got rid of their SR, would that lower their LA to +2?

Eldariel
2009-09-12, 11:11 AM
Eh, they aren't worth +3 LA to begin with. +2 at most, and I'd let one fly for +1; they actually have negative stat adjustments. The only things they have going on for them are Spell Resistance (which is weaker than the rules assumed due to it interrupting with allied buffing & healing), Dodge-bonus (which is pretty huge, admittedly, but only on low levels) and spell-likes (which would be better if not for their -4 racial Charisma; the racial bonus to the save DCs helps out a bit and this is easily their strongest part).

Really, if you remove the racial bonus from their spell-like save DCs and cut the AC bonus to +2 or so, you could use them without LA. The Nondetection is pretty strong, but meeeh.

woodenbandman
2009-09-12, 11:50 AM
Racial nondetection is weak. By the time it becomes relevant you can already cast it.

Eldariel
2009-09-12, 11:52 AM
Racial nondetection is weak. By the time it becomes relevant you can already cast it.

The spell has an expensive material component though which means over long periods of time, the racial ability can become notably cheaper.

Adumbration
2009-09-12, 12:12 PM
The spell has an expensive material component though which means over long periods of time, the racial ability can become notably cheaper.

Not to mention that caster level is very significant for the spell, and it would be very expensive to get as high a caster level magic item for it.

FMArthur
2009-09-13, 02:31 AM
Don't you love that subraces who live underground or have different skin color from other related subraces are innately more powerful from birth? And that their powerful, inexplicable racial abilities make them effectively weaker as player characters due to strange D&D level adjustments? I know I do.

...

What's wrong with just using the surface races underground? Replace Low-Light Vision with Darkvision plus Light Sensitivity. Nothing else should be different about them, damn it!

AmberVael
2009-09-13, 02:52 AM
Don't you love that subraces who live underground or have different skin color from other related subraces are innately more powerful from birth? And that their powerful, inexplicable racial abilities make them effectively weaker as player characters due to strange D&D level adjustments? I know I do.

...

What's wrong with just using the surface races underground? Replace Low-Light Vision with Darkvision plus Light Sensitivity. Nothing else should be different about them, damn it!

Silly Arthur. Don't you know? Gravity in DnD is a magical force which radiates from the earth's core. Therefore, underground races (like drow, deep gnomes, mindflayers, etc.) have an innate power boost.
Taking this further, creatures who are more affected by gravity (like ones that are larger) are the most powerful. Why do you think Dragons are so powerful when they're older? It isn't because they're older, its because they're bigger. This is also why Ogres are stronger than orcs, giants are stronger than ogres, and titans are stronger than giants.

Zaq
2009-09-13, 09:54 PM
Silly Arthur. Don't you know? Gravity in DnD is a magical force which radiates from the earth's core. Therefore, underground races (like drow, deep gnomes, mindflayers, etc.) have an innate power boost.
Taking this further, creatures who are more affected by gravity (like ones that are larger) are the most powerful. Why do you think Dragons are so powerful when they're older? It isn't because they're older, its because they're bigger. This is also why Ogres are stronger than orcs, giants are stronger than ogres, and titans are stronger than giants.

When you consider the other insanities that gravity can pull in D&D (fun fact: casting Feather Fall in the middle of a jump actually makes you plummet to the ground!), that makes so much sense.