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View Full Version : How To RP Being Bad at Being Good?



Deme
2009-09-12, 05:14 PM
So, I'm planning a (4th ed) assasin for a game that's currently formulating, and I'm looking for some tips on how to roleplay a particular aspect of his personality.

The basic idea of him is that he used to be an evil assasin, willing to kill, steal, and cheat quite literally anyone and anything for the right price, yadda-yadda. He kind of knew he was a bad guy, but hey, it's not like it was personal -- and more than that, he just didn't care. Then one day, he gets a job to do remove something from a lost sacred shrine, and he does so. This unleashes the campaign's Evil In a Jar -- and in that moment, seeing this spirit of pure, elemental evil, having it surround him and flow past him out into the world, gave him a sobering realization that he couldn't keep on being the evil guy that he was -- because everytime he stabbed some old lady so her grandson could get the inheretance, he became a little bit more (or just became closer to in that moment) like that nighmarish thing. He had to change; he had to become good (starting with righting what he set wrong.)

...One problem: He doesn't "get" goodness. He's been a part of the underworld a long time, maybe his entire life (his backstory is still a touch unclear). Other than stopping what he was doing, and somehow killing this evil, he really has no idea as to how to go about being an actively good person; but he sure is going to try.

So I'm looking for what sort of things should he do/say to emphasize the fact that he has no clue how to go about being good (I'm mostly playing this for comedy, and assuming that the rest of the party will stop him and correct him as time goes on). Any tips/suggestions?

Green Bean
2009-09-12, 05:28 PM
Your character's view of Good is based entirely on hearsay and bedtime stories, and tries to achieve a warped version of Good with the same-old methods. Rescue the princess from her own tower! Kidnap an orphan and force him to be your zany sidekick at swordpoint! Try to heal the sick, despite no medical knowledge whatsoever! Open a soup kitchen using the proceeds of your various robberies of poor people!

Kylarra
2009-09-12, 05:38 PM
Your character's view of Good is based entirely on hearsay and bedtime stories, and tries to achieve a warped version of Good with the same-old methods. Rescue the princess from her own tower! Kidnap an orphan and force him to be your zany sidekick at swordpoint! Try to heal the sick, despite no medical knowledge whatsoever! Open a soup kitchen using the proceeds of your various robberies of poor people!
Is that you Don Quixote?

rezplz
2009-09-12, 06:21 PM
Hah, I like h_v's idea. Another approach that you could take with this is that he acknowledges he needs to be good. He even says that he's going to be good. But he doesn't quite grasp that it means he actually needs to DO stuff beyond getting fighting this big bad evil threat. Like a beggar could ask him for a few coppers or some food, and he could be all like "Get your own! I'm busy doing good here!"

Mando Knight
2009-09-12, 06:23 PM
Is that you Don Quixote?

...
...

...I see a shadowy man standing atop a hill at sunrise, with his dagger pointed upwards... singing "I, Don Quixote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS8rpt1y6lk)" at the top of his lungs. It is as hilariously awesome as it is weird and disturbing.

Mercenary Pen
2009-09-12, 06:34 PM
There's also the idea of doing good because you expect to get something back in return... But not an overt shakedown for valuables so much as the offhand comment when asked why he had the courage to defend an orphaned beggar-child from rabid dogs: "because I'm sure he'd do the same for me."

You might even consider being so eager to do good that you do good deeds for the wrong people without finding out the facts first, for example protecting the notorious local miser from a "shakedown and robbery" by the law-abiding tax collectors.

RoninAngel
2009-09-12, 06:44 PM
I say you try to be good by using evil methods, such as being helpful, and brave and self-sacrificing, but doing so in the while using the most brutal underhanded methods possible. Whenever a problem arises, and something wicked would be the most efficient thing to do, happily suggest doing it and then act confused when everyone is horrified by your suggestion. Whine when they do this, "It's not like anyone would find out." :smallfrown:

:smallbiggrin:

My favorite Belkar example of this is: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0612.html :smallsmile:

Saph
2009-09-12, 06:48 PM
It's easy. You try to achieve good ends, you're just accustomed to the assassin way of thinking.

Basically, whenever anyone suggests that you do a good deed, you agree enthusiastically, then suggest the most unnecessarily violent way of solving the problem that you can think of. Then act puzzled at the reactions you get.

Paladin: "So, the landlord is going to evict Mrs Goodbody from her home if she doesn't pay the rent. Now, I think the best approach would be for us to talk to-"
Assassin: "Yes! I have solution!"
Paladin: "*sigh* Okay, Deme, let's hear it."
Assassin: "Is simple. We burn down landlord's mansion! This will destroy records and cause debt to be forgotten."
Paladin: "No."
Assassin: "Why not?"
Paladin: "Because that'll kill half of the people in the mansion."
Assassin: "Not to worry! If we block doors can ensure that all inhabitants are burned to death instead of only half."

Milskidasith
2009-09-12, 06:50 PM
The thing is, while the unnecessarily violent angle works for most people... it doesn't change the fact that, in general, adventurers are all about killing things for their stuff in unnecessarily brutal ways. It all depends on the adventure composition; if you are doing a bunch of more RPing, less heavy on combat stuff, violence is a good way to be bad at being good, but if you are, say, hired to clear the local cave of Trolls... well, suggesting "kill them" isn't very odd.

Saph
2009-09-12, 06:56 PM
They aren't going to solve ALL their problems by killing things. And even if they do, you can always one-up them by suggesting plans with a sufficiently high level of collateral damage.

"No, Deme, causing a wightpocalypse that turns 15% of the continent into a negative energy wasteland is not an appropriate response to Farmer Brown's goats being stolen."

Milskidasith
2009-09-12, 06:58 PM
"Wights? Who said anything about Wights? I suggested using Shadows; they're much more efficient."
:smalltongue:

Yrcrazypa
2009-09-12, 07:41 PM
Have him do horrible things while doing good. Like, say he sees a bunch of people murder someone, have him kill them. He should have little patience for things, such as when questioning people, have him punch/cut them if they are being rude, or not answering questions. And then kill them.

Optimystik
2009-09-12, 07:44 PM
It's easy. You try to achieve good ends, you're just accustomed to the assassin way of thinking.

Basically, whenever anyone suggests that you do a good deed, you agree enthusiastically, then suggest the most unnecessarily violent way of solving the problem that you can think of. Then act puzzled at the reactions you get.

Paladin: "So, the landlord is going to evict Mrs Goodbody from her home if she doesn't pay the rent. Now, I think the best approach would be for us to talk to-"
Assassin: "Yes! I have solution!"
Paladin: "*sigh* Okay, Deme, let's hear it."
Assassin: "Is simple. We burn down landlord's mansion! This will destroy records and cause debt to be forgotten."
Paladin: "No."
Assassin: "Why not?"
Paladin: "Because that'll kill half of the people in the mansion."
Assassin: "Not to worry! If we block doors can ensure that all inhabitants are burned to death instead of only half."

I like you.

Deme
2009-09-12, 07:52 PM
It's easy. You try to achieve good ends, you're just accustomed to the assassin way of thinking.

Basically, whenever anyone suggests that you do a good deed, you agree enthusiastically, then suggest the most unnecessarily violent way of solving the problem that you can think of. Then act puzzled at the reactions you get.

Paladin: "So, the landlord is going to evict Mrs Goodbody from her home if she doesn't pay the rent. Now, I think the best approach would be for us to talk to-"
Assassin: "Yes! I have solution!"
Paladin: "*sigh* Okay, Deme, let's hear it."
Assassin: "Is simple. We burn down landlord's mansion! This will destroy records and cause debt to be forgotten."
Paladin: "No."
Assassin: "Why not?"
Paladin: "Because that'll kill half of the people in the mansion."
Assassin: "Not to worry! If we block doors can ensure that all inhabitants are burned to death instead of only half."

This one's actually very likely to happen: the party's going to have an LG Paladin, played by a fan of the 3.5 Paladin (well, the fluff, anyway). Mind you, the nice thing is that most of these are options, since it's very likely the Paladin's going to try and teach him, so he'll likely spend a lot of time jumping from one method of failing at goodness to another.

Strawman
2009-09-12, 07:53 PM
Is there anyone in the party that is good and likes to make over-the-top good speeches? The assassin could take that persons values and go well beyond reason with them.

Eliminate the orc threat = Orc genocide
Feed the poor = Soylent Green/Demon Barber
Save the princess = Get her out of the tower, take her to another tower, and then guard over her constantly for all time. She is not allowed to leave.

Essentially the character becomes a paladin too far.
:miko:

Grumman
2009-09-12, 08:13 PM
Heart Ripper: the spell of a thousand and one uses.

Crafty Cultist
2009-09-12, 08:24 PM
have your character be ruthless eg:

if an enemy surrenders, kill them anyway be they random minions, the BBEG, or a good man who just happened to be working at cross purposes

ignore the consequences of your actions. If the villain has slaves under their control, free them and move on. whether or not they will survive once freed in not your problem

Godskook
2009-09-12, 08:53 PM
Watch One Piece and model yourself on Dr. Hiluluk (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Hiluluk)? Make sure you give yourself the abysmal wisdom score you deserve too.

endoperez
2009-09-12, 09:18 PM
Besides being ruthless, you could also have him confuse the Lawful with the Good. You know, things like the paladin code: respect legitimate authority, act with honor, help those in need, and punish those who harm or threaten innocents. Just, he doesn't know when to stop (although he understands there probably are exceptions), and doesn't know what else he's supposed to do. Also, he'd most probably be rather cynical.

So if he were to decide a good person follows those rules, he tries to do whatever officials tell him to, throws copper pieces to beggars whenever they ask for some, and expects he's supposed to really punish evil people. The "act with honor" thing would probably cause him problems. As an example, if he thinks it's not honorable to break one's word, he tries to avoid ever promising or swearing anything, so that he's free to do whatever he does without breaking promises. He might have to backstab and deceive them, but he never promised he didn't!

Help those in need? How? Beggars who are begging just to get money for booze are in need of help, but not of money. Should he get them food? He can't be doing all that himself, and he has no one he could trust with the work. Should he donate the money to a church? That's not in the list of "good deeds", it'd be more like bribing, perhaps that's bad?

So, really "by the book" good guy who knows it's not working.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative_ethics
Whenever you want a change, you can dig up some moral philosopher's theory and use it for a few sessions. Lots of interesting ideas in there, such as:
"virtue denotes doing the right thing, to the right person, at the right time, to the proper extent, in the correct fashion, for the right reason" (Aristotle)
He tries to do the right thing, doesn't always get the right person, and often gets some of the time, the extent, the method and/or the reason wrong.

JonestheSpy
2009-09-12, 09:25 PM
If you like comics, I highly highly highly recommend checking out Gail Simone's book The Secret Six from DC.

A bunch of former supervillaijns straddle the line of morality, mercenaries who have a conscience but still resent the hell out of the superfascists who call themselves the heroes. One of my favorite books at present (the only superpowere book I'm at all interested in), and I bet you'll find oodles of ideas there.

Raewyn
2009-09-12, 09:33 PM
It's easy. You try to achieve good ends, you're just accustomed to the assassin way of thinking.

Basically, whenever anyone suggests that you do a good deed, you agree enthusiastically, then suggest the most unnecessarily violent way of solving the problem that you can think of. Then act puzzled at the reactions you get.

Paladin: "So, the landlord is going to evict Mrs Goodbody from her home if she doesn't pay the rent. Now, I think the best approach would be for us to talk to-"
Assassin: "Yes! I have solution!"
Paladin: "*sigh* Okay, Deme, let's hear it."
Assassin: "Is simple. We burn down landlord's mansion! This will destroy records and cause debt to be forgotten."
Paladin: "No."
Assassin: "Why not?"
Paladin: "Because that'll kill half of the people in the mansion."
Assassin: "Not to worry! If we block doors can ensure that all inhabitants are burned to death instead of only half."

I know most people don't mind being praised in the sigs of fellow playgrounders, but... may I sig this?

Lycanthromancer
2009-09-12, 09:37 PM
How about emulating...

WADE WILSON!!! Nee Deadpool.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/DeadPoolscore.jpg

http://actionfigurecanada.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/deadpool.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/deadpool.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/250px-DeadpoolYellowBoxes.jpg

http://plasticpancreas.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/deadpool15_copy.jpg

Arakune
2009-09-12, 09:55 PM
Wrong personality. Maybe next time ? :smalltongue:

Saph
2009-09-13, 04:41 AM
I know most people don't mind being praised in the sigs of fellow playgrounders, but... may I sig this?

Go for it. :)

PLUN
2009-09-13, 06:29 AM
I'd recommend you play uup your class features for black humor as well. If, like the 3.5 assassin, some of your moves require flanking or study, move around people or prepare such actions in the middle of conversation frequently on the flimsiest of pretenses -

"What was that about?"
"He had a mace"
"It was a prayer wheel!"
"It was a prayer wheel he can bash heads in with"
"He's 75 years old!"
"He's got 75 years of experience with that prayer mace"

(if your DM is aware you're doing this for some light relief, he'd probably be quite happy for NPCs to not pick up on your true intentions; NPCs turning hostile/secret bad guys can always ready an action to ruin your obvious shenanigans)

Make mechanics work for you.

As for archetypes to get pointers of, someone mentioned Secret Six. That ain't bad at all. A lot of books of the genre can be very preachy about their opposite numbers, The Boys comes to mind, but they're generally a live and let live group. A WANTED live and let live group, but hey, you need conflict somewhere. Simone's favourite hook is to give the most amoral characters a bright side, a character they show upmost nobility to, and more 'nice guy' characters a dark background cause, casually funding, as an example, a terrorist group as their favourite charity.

A lot of Bioware characters, in particular The Black Whirlwind (Jade Empire), Wrex (Mass Effect) and Canderous (KOTOR) adopt an 'anecdotal' approach to their past evils - while keeping themselves in check while in the party, they give advice based on (or flat out retell) their experiences kicking arse and taking names.

Cassidy from Preacher would be a very dark take on the reformed sinner - he is still, deep down, a unlikeable t***. For every act of basic decency he ruins it by being an opportunistic creep, an knows it.