[PrC] If you give a psion a cookie...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Bulpsi

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs37/300W/f/2008/255/9/b/9ba0ac5fb187fd02dfe58cf870014676.jpg

There are some psionicists who believe the body is but a battery for the mind. A vessel to be used, even abused, for the good of the psyche. The Bulpsi, also known simply as Eaters, take this to a whole new level. They seek to increase the body's resources to the limit the flesh will allow. They become supercharged consumers, every cell alight with life force, all geared to the production of raw psionic energy.

Though a bulpsi may appear as anything from obese to a mutant giants, they are anything but slow and plodding. In fact, so full are are they with contained energy they many can hardly sit still, but are always on the move. The only times they appear still is during their meditations, but even then their minds are in a flurry of activity.

Though egoists are most suited for this path, it is Psychic Warriors whom are the most likely to seek it. Ardents are also known to occasionally becomes Bulpsi. Regardless of the class, the fortitude and toughness of a bulpsi makes them as tough as any others.

Hit Die: d12

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Requirements
To qualify to become a Bulpsi, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Heal 6 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks
Feat: Overchannel, Psionic Body
Trait: Stout (http://dndsrd.net/unearthedTraits.html#stout)
Psionics: Able to manifest Body Adjustment and Body Purification or have access to the Consumption Mantle.
Special: A bulpsi must weigh at the maximum standard for their race and consume four times their normal required intake to become a Bulpsi.


Table: The Bulpsi

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Powers Known
1st +0 +2 +0 +0 Creature Capacitor, Hungry Touch +1 level of existing manifesting class
2nd +1 +3 +0 +0 Evolved Bulemia -
3rd +1 +3 +1 +1 Iron Gullet -
4th +2 +4 +1 +1 Bodybuilder +1 level of existing manifesting class
5th +2 +4 +1 +1 Mental Giant -
6th +3 +5 +2 +2 Fast, Regeneration +1 level of existing manifesting class
7th +3 +5 +2 +2 Strength of My Enemy +1 level of existing manifesting class
8th +4 +6 +2 +2 Feeding Frenzy -
9th +4 +6 +3 +3 Bullybody -
10th +5 +7 +3 +3 Swallow Whole +1 level of existing manifesting class


Class Skills
The Bulpsi’s class skills are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (psionics) (Int), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Bulpsi prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bulpsi gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Powers Known: At every level indicated on Table: The Bulpsi, a bulpsi gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of bulpsi to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.
If a character had more than one manifesting class before he became a bulpsi, he must decide to which class he adds the new level of bulpsi for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level.

Creature Capacitor (Su): The bulpsi can store additional power points in his own body, treating himself in some ways as a cognizant crystal. Unlike a standard cognizant crystal, a bulpsi can store a number of power points equal to his effective manifester level. All other rules for using a cognizance crystal applies.

For example, an 11th-level bulpsi can store up to 11 power points, while a 4th-level psion could store only 4.

Hungry Touch (Ps): A bulpsi gains Hungry touch as a psi-like ability that they may use a number of time per day equal to their PrC level.

Evolved Bulemia (Su): At 2nd level a bulpsi may directly metabolize their own flesh to gain a burst of psionic power. For each 10 lbs they willingly metabolize they gain 1 bonus power point that lasts for 24 hours. A bulpsi can metabolize flesh down to their race's lowest standard weight. After that they may continue to consume up to half that weight, but take burn to their Constitution and Strength scores. For every 1/10 of their remaining weigh the bulpsi burns they take 1 point of Con and Str burn.

For example, a male human Bulspi may lose down to 120 lbs. After that he may lose up to half of that, down to 60 lbs max. For every 6 pounds he loses he takes 1 point of Constitution and Strength burn.

A bulpsi cannot regain lost weight until 24 hours after eating. That is how long it takes to fully digest a meal and build new tissue. A bulpsi may only apply 1/10th the weight they consume to new tissue. A bulpsi must still eat the normal ammount per day to keep from starving in addition to the increased weight.

A bulpsi may increase in weight above their starting weight by 100 lbs x Bulpsi level.

Iron Gullet (Ex): A bulpsi gains nourishment from eating any organic source, despite its freshness or source. They gain immunity to poisons and diseases that they ingest.

Bodybuilder: At 4th level a bulpsi manifests all psychometabolic powers at a +1 manifester level.

Mental Giant (Ex): At 5th level a bulpsi has not only increased in girth, but height, and advances in size by one category as if they had used the Expansion power. The bulpsi's Constitution score also increases by 2. All their speeds increase by 10 feet.

At 10th level they may increase by one additional size category and their speeds increase by another 10 feet.

For each size category they advance their minimum weight quadruples, as does the necessary volume they must eat.

Fast (Ex): A bulpsi has such precise control over his metabolism he may put his body into a reserved state. This acts as Suspended Animation but is extraordinary instead of psionic or supernatural.

Regeneration: A bulpsi gains regeneration, healing 1 point per hour. Acid and fire deal normal damage to a bulpsi. He may even reattach a limb if he holds it to the stump for a full minute.

Strength of my Enemy (Ex): A bulpsi may begin to wander along a dangerous path in his development. He may incorporate the flesh of others into his own. If he eats an entire body he gains a +1 bonus to his strength per size category of the creature (or the creature's standard strength score if it's lower). This bonus lasts for a number of minutes equal to his PrC level. If he feeds on another creature before this time is over he loses his previous bonus and gains a new one based on its stats.

As well, if he eats the brain of a creature within 1 minute of death he gains all its memories extending out a number of days equal to his PrC level +1. If the creature is psionic he gains the number of power points it had at death, if any, or +1 per HD of the creature, whichever is higher. These points replenish any the bulspi has used for the day, but cannot excede his normal daily total.

Feeding Frenzy (Ex): Once per day a bulpsi may go on a feeding frenzy. What he eats goes immediately into fueling his power points. This frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to levels in this class. If he cannot find something ready to eat he will find himself willing to eat anything, even his own comrades, seeing every living thing as fuel for the mind in a moment of madness. A bulpsi cannot end this frenzy voluntarily.

Bullybody (Su): At 9th level a bulpsi's bodily functions are so dominating that he may force a psychometabolic power with a range of touch on a target even if normally they must be willing or is self only. For a moment his mind literally takes a hold of their bodily functions and makes them his own.

Swallow Whole (Ex): At tenth level a bulpsi learns to unhinge his jaws and shove beings whole down his maw. He can try to swallow a grabbed opponent up to two sizes smaller than he by making a successful grapple check.

A swallowed creature takes an amount of bludgeoning damage depending on it's size. In addition they take acid damage from the digestive juices equal to the size category +1.


Tiny - 1d3
Small - 1d4
Medium - 1d6
Large - 1d8
Huge - 2d6
Gargantuan - 4d6
Colossal - 6d6

A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC is 10 + 1/2 bulpsi's natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

He can hold 1 creature two sizes smaller, 2 creatures three sizes smaller, 4 creatures four sizes smaller

A bulpsi can speak telepathically with any living, swallowed creature. No common language is necessary.

[Siosilvar]

How does it interact with Ring of Sustenance? i.e. is the ring applied and gets the food required to zero, or do we use normal D&D multiplication rules and get "a Bulpsi wearing a Ring of Sustenance must eat three times normal"?

[Milskidasith]

This isn't worth losing 5 manifester levels.

[Doc Roc]

I... would not take this class for a variety of reasons. Please at least rename evolved bulemia. That was really pretty upsetting.

[Innis Cabal]

This is...actually really boring as a PrC...and really fits as a template. I am boggled by the idea that there are no full psion progression PrCs. This is really rather...flavorless....bad pun...and boring. Sorry...I don't think it can be fixed to make it otherwise. Its just a silly PrC idea.

[Godskook]

Weight is not a 'important' D&D statistic, and basing class mechanics off a statistic that can be assigned arbitrarily is a bad idea.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

How does it interact with Ring of Sustenance? i.e. is the ring applied and gets the food required to zero, or do we use normal D&D multiplication rules and get "a Bulpsi wearing a Ring of Sustenance must eat three times normal"?
A ring can feed them, but not supply their needed energy for gaining power points.


I... would not take this class for a variety of reasons. Please at least rename evolved bulemia. That was really pretty upsetting.
It seem to fit. That's like getting upset over the Cancer Mage because it has the word 'cancer' in it.


This is...actually really boring as a PrC...and really fits as a template.
If you say so.


This is really rather...flavorless....bad pun...and boring. Sorry...I don't think it can be fixed to make it otherwise. Its just a silly PrC idea.
Actually, I used like a dozen different myths from old cultures. There just wasn't a name I could take from it anywhere though. If I'd done this as a cannibal psion or somesuch and used the exact stats I'm sure everyone would have appreciated it. I think most here see 'Bulemia' and freak out.

[Doc Roc]

Actually, I used like a dozen different myths from old cultures. There just wasn't a name I could take from it anywhere though. If I'd done this as a cannibal psion or somesuch and used the exact stats I'm sure everyone would have appreciated it. I think most here see 'Bulemia' and freak out.

How terribly judgmental of them! God forbid that we be moderately offended by a PrC that articulates an eating disorder in terms of psionic power and the concept of bodily perfection and control. Do you see, perhaps, my point of view?

[Godskook]

How terribly judgmental of them! God forbid that we be moderately offended by a PrC that articulates an eating disorder in terms of psionic power and the concept of bodily perfection and control. Do you see, perhaps, my point of view?

Forget the fact that it is glorifying an eating disorder. I think it is worse that in that case, the fluff does not match the crunch. Bulemia, conceptually and mechanically, prevents the person from benefiting nutritionally from the food they eat, and more directly, it operates in the gastro-intestinal system. A Bulpsi, on the other hand, is utilizing what is essentially a function of the metabolism in the "evolved bulemia" ability. Better to name it "overclocked metabolism" or something like that, and have it make sense than to call it 'bulemia' when it doesn't.

[DrakebloodIV]

How terribly judgmental of them! God forbid that we be moderately offended by a PrC that articulates an eating disorder in terms of psionic power and the concept of bodily perfection and control. Do you see, perhaps, my point of view?

Maybe make them have to be evil because of the inherently perverse nature of their class?

[The Neoclassic]

You could change the name to something involving binging (which, while associated with bulimia, also has far wider linguistic applications) or even "Evolved Metabolism." Actually, I think the latter might sound a more accurate term for the ability too. I'm not taking sides on whether it "should" be changed or not, just providing an alternative term should you so consider one. :smallredface:

Apparently I am in the minority here because I rather like the class. Well, it's disturbing. The picture especially. But it does have a gruesome and evocative flavor to it, and would make for a pretty terrifying foe.

As far as people commenting about this "Not being worth it" compared to other paths, if they're not going to suggest how it could be turned into something useful, I'd just ignore it. :smalltongue: Sadly I don't know much about psionics, but if that was really an issue, you could add in more levels of progressing with existing powers (maybe all levels except first?). Also, some folks do like classes which aren't mechanically "optimal" for their unique abilities or flavor. As long as it's not super-underpowered (which I doubt this is), shouldn't be a major issue.

[Doc Roc]

Forget the fact that it is glorifying an eating disorder. I think it is worse that in that case, the fluff does not match the crunch. Bulemia, conceptually and mechanically, prevents the person from benefiting nutritionally from the food they eat, and more directly, it operates in the gastro-intestinal system. A Bulpsi, on the other hand, is utilizing what is essentially a function of the metabolism in the "evolved bulemia" ability. Better to name it "overclocked metabolism" or something like that, and have it make sense than to call it 'bulemia' when it doesn't.

This. All I wanted was you to consider a name change. I don't think the ability is worth the number of manifester levels you lose, over all, but I think that's a secondary issue for me right now.

[Doc Roc]

As far as people commenting about this "Not being worth it" compared to other paths, if they're not going to suggest how it could be turned into something useful, I'd just ignore it. :smalltongue: Sadly I don't know much about psionics, but if that was really an issue, you could add in more levels of progressing with existing powers (maybe all levels except first?). Also, some folks do like classes which aren't mechanically "optimal" for their unique abilities or flavor. As long as it's not super-underpowered (which I doubt this is), shouldn't be a major issue.

Actually it is currently much worse than a number of existing comparables, including one that is thematically similar released in the mind's eye column (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a). The resolution for that, as you so aptly divined, is to just improve its manifester progression.

[The Neoclassic]

Actually it is currently much worse than a number of existing comparables, including one that is thematically similar released in the mind's eye column (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a). The resolution for that, as you so aptly divined, is to just improve its manifester progression.

Like I said, I dunno much about psionics. It is lucky there is such an easy solution in sight. I just know it's frustrating (and does happen sometimes- probably by accident) when people say "Hey- this class is not worth it," without offering even a simple extra sentence of "Oh- you could probably just up this powers thing and that'd help some" or such. Hopefully if Tribble finds a Metabolism-centric name change to be fitting and ups the gained powers (rather than just 5/10 levels) it'll be a far less controversial class and we can move onto helping with nit-picky things and details. :smallsmile:

[Wings of Peace]

Actually, I used like a dozen different myths from old cultures. There just wasn't a name I could take from it anywhere though. If I'd done this as a cannibal psion or somesuch and used the exact stats I'm sure everyone would have appreciated it. I think most here see 'Bulemia' and freak out.

I've created a class too. It's called Supreme Jihadist and specializes in self damaging aoe effects. It seemed an appropriate name though so it's cool guys.

[Doc Roc]

I've created a class too. It's called Supreme Jihadist and specializes in self damaging aoe effects. It seemed an appropriate name though so it's cool guys.

Though you may be joking, there's a not-dissimilar class to be found in Iron Kingdoms. :S

[Godskook]

To continue the point of the earlier problem of basing this thing off of 'weight' is this:

A typical aboleth weighs 6500 lbs. Let's say we find an overly large and fat one, weighing in at 10,500 lbs(not even double). The amount of PP a psionic aboleth could recover without taking ability burn? 400. That's more than a L20 Psion's base PP. Worse still, there's no action listed as to how this happens. Is it a free action?

Anybody else want to break that ability further?

And on the other side of the fence, having a goblin who weighed more than 100lbs would be ridiculous, meaning he'd only gain 7 PP before taking burn.

[DrakebloodIV]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the Psi like ability Hungry Touch. He mentions it but its not on the SRD.


To continue the point of the earlier problem of basing this thing off of 'weight' is this:

A typical aboleth weighs 6500 lbs. Let's say we find an overly large and fat one, weighing in at 10,500 lbs(not even double). The amount of PP a psionic aboleth could recover without taking ability burn? 400. That's more than a L20 Psion's base PP. Worse still, there's no action listed as to how this happens. Is it a free action?

Anybody else want to break that ability further?

And on the other side of the fence, having a goblin who weighed more than 100lbs would be ridiculous, meaning he'd only gain 7 PP before taking burn.

Except that an aboleth would have a LA of at least 7, and the 5 levels of psion and 2 levels of Bolpsi needed puts it up to level 14, and at that level there are many bigger problems with cheese than infinite power points.

[Doc Roc]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the Psi like ability Hungry Touch. He mentions it but its not on the SRD.



Except that an aboleth would have a LA of at least 7, and the 5 levels of psion and 2 levels of Bolpsi needed puts it up to level 14, and at that level there are many bigger problems with cheese than infinite power points.

Metamorphosis. Mindswitch. So many other options.

[Godskook]

Except that an aboleth would have a LA of at least 7, and the 5 levels of psion and 2 levels of Bolpsi needed puts it up to level 14, and at that level there are many bigger problems with cheese than infinite power points.

My point was, the ability is entirely unbalanced with itself. One PC might get almost nothing out of it, while another might get returns that are nearly off the charts. I merely picked the first psionic monster in the SRD(I was aiming for something big, that's what I got).

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Was just a thought... perhaps we can use the amount of food needed per day to calculate instead of raw poundage.

And Hungry Touch can be found in Complete Psionic.

[DracoDei]

Was just a thought... perhaps we can use the amount of food needed per day to calculate instead of raw poundage.
That sounds good, and I think the overall concept is very interesting. My time is rather limited these days, so I haven't read the whole thing...

If, for some odd reason you end up short on ideas for tweaks or additions, you might try the "Maw Shaman" someone posted a while back...

[DrakebloodIV]

Was just a thought... perhaps we can use the amount of food needed per day to calculate instead of raw poundage.

And Hungry Touch can be found in Complete Psionic.

Or howzaboot percent body mass? Thats what they use for calculating fatitude in real life.

Also, can you post it, pm it, or link it in some way without shattering the forums almighty anti copyright infringement rules?

[DrakebloodIV]

Or howzaboot percent body mass? Thats what they use for calculating fatitude in real life.

Also, can you post it, pm it, or link it in some way without shattering the forums almighty anti copyright infringement rules?


Mental Giant (Ex): At 5th level a bulpsi has not only increased in girth, but height, and advances in size by one category as if they had used the Expansion power. The bulpsi's Constitution score also increases by 2. All their speeds increase by 10 feet.

At 10th level they may increase by one additional size category and their speeds increase by another 10 feet.

For each size category they advance their minimum weight quadruples, as does the necessary volume they must eat.

Isn't minimum weight quadroupling bad for the Bulpsi? Shouldnt this be coupled with an increase in maximum weight?


This power causes instant growth, doubling your height, length, and width and multiplying your weight by 8.

[Godskook]

Was just a thought... perhaps we can use the amount of food needed per day to calculate instead of raw poundage.

Again, this is something that varies wildly, and is also not regulated by game mechanics. Humans alone can range from <2,000 calories to ~12,000 calories in their diets. That's here in the 'real' world, so imagine how much higher the variance could be in a magical setting where things like rings of sustenance, and that's not taking into account other races, like centaurs.

Seems to me you have two choices:

1)Pick statistics that are actually part of the game, like a con score.

2)Actually regulate the weight/eating thing within the class in a way that's semi-balanced across different races. Running pure percentages would be easy to deal with, and aren't size dependent.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Again, this is something that varies wildly, and is also not regulated by game mechanics.
In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.)

[Doc Roc]

Use the Con Score, like every other similar concept uses, or use percentages. So you aren't changing the ability name?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I've created a class too. It's called Supreme Jihadist and specializes in self damaging aoe effects. It seemed an appropriate name though so it's cool guys.

How does it interact with Jade Phoenix Mage?

[Doc Roc]

How does it interact with Jade Phoenix Mage?

It's a pretty slick variation on the theme actually.

[Godskook]

In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.)

How about you go this way? Decide how much benefit a character should get from the ability and then calculate backwards.

[Debihuman]

I recommend changing "Evolved Bulemia" to "Fodder For The Masses."

Debby

[Catch]

How terribly judgmental of them! God forbid that we be moderately offended by a PrC that articulates an eating disorder in terms of psionic power and the concept of bodily perfection and control. Do you see, perhaps, my point of view?

And Blood Magus gain arcane power through self-harm, but I don't see you rushing to protest that class.

"Evolved Bulimia" isn't exactly the most apt name for the ability - and it's not especially sensitive - but D&D shows a remarkable resilience to moral panic, however good-intentioned (or downright bullheaded) it may be.

[Doc Roc]

And Blood Magus gain arcane power through self-harm, but I don't see you rushing to protest that class.

"Evolved Bulimia" isn't exactly the most apt name for the ability - and it's not especially sensitive - but D&D shows a remarkable resilience to moral panic.

Actually, Blood Magus is banned in most of my games for a variety of reasons. So why would I rush?
This isn't moral panic, this is me thinking that the class is tasteless and bad as it currently stands. I can deal with one but not both, I guess. As a lovely segue, Blood Magus is a terrible class, mechanically. Basically, same problem as this one. Too many lost caster levels for too little gain. It either needs improved compensation, or improved casting. Something piddling like Full BAB might be a place to start.

[Godskook]

And Blood Magus gain arcane power through self-harm, but I don't see you rushing to protest that class.

Face it, you're not sticking up for anyone in general, only your personal values.

1.Blood Magus isn't being discussed here, so you can't really speak of his protests(or rather, lack there of) of that class.

2.Blood Magus doesn't reference mental disorders as class abilities in any direct manner.

3.Sometimes, personal values are worth standing up for. Being outraged by someone glorifying an eating disorder is an ok personal value in my book.

[Catch]

Actually, Blood Magus is banned in most of my games. So why would I rush?

As a lovely segue, Blood Magus is a terrible class, mechanically. Basically, same problem as this one. Too many lost levels for too little gain.

Did you write any letters to WotC about how upset you were? Doubt it.

It's cute attempt at evasion, but doesn't sidestep the fact that you're being hypocritical and belligerent over a personal offense to your values. There are loads of morally questionable things in D&D (see: BoVD) and getting your hackles up about one in particular makes you look the fool, not the creator.


2.Blood Magus doesn't reference mental disorders as class abilities in any direct manner.

It's glorifying dangerous self-harm, which is the point of contention here.


3.Sometimes, personal values are worth standing up for. Being outraged by someone glorifying an eating disorder is an ok personal value in my book.

Sticking up your values is fine. A sensitivity for time, place and subject are nice too, not to mention a certain degree of diplomacy.

But hey, being rude and antagonistic is a decent alternative, right?

[Doc Roc]

Did you write any letters to WotC about how upset you were? Doubt it.

It's cute attempt at evasion, but doesn't sidestep the fact that you're being hypocritical and belligerent over a personal offense to your values. There are loads of morally questionable things in D&D (see: BoVD) and getting your hackles up about one in particular makes you look the fool, not the creator.

Has it occurred to you that what you are doing falls under a "moral panic" as well?

Let me summarize your argument:

"Constraint of free speech in my podunk homebrew forum? EVIL!"

I don't think I've been particularly belligerent, but I'm always hypocritical. :smallbiggrin:

[Kallisti]

I... would not take this class for a variety of reasons. Please at least rename evolved bulemia. That was really pretty upsetting.


Actually, I used like a dozen different myths from old cultures. There just wasn't a name I could take from it anywhere though. If I'd done this as a cannibal psion or somesuch and used the exact stats I'm sure everyone would have appreciated it. I think most here see 'Bulemia' and freak out.
Actually, he's right. Using bulemia like that in your PrC is upsetting, and gives the class a kind of dark, horrible shock.

Oh, wait! That's the point! If TVT didn't want the class to be dark, horrible, disgusting, etc. he wouldn't have used the picture he did. If you think that a class that references bulemia is too dark for your games, don't use it. Unless TVT has threatened to come to your house and curb stomp you personally if you don't play one of these, you have the option of ignoring it, just like you can ignore the Blood Magus and the Cancer Mage. (If he has threatened to come curb stomp you if you don't play a bulpsi, call the police and then back away slowly...)


There are loads of morally questionable things in D&D (see: BoVD) and getting your hackles up about one in particular makes you look the fool, not the creator.

Sticking up your values is fine. A sensitivity for time, place and subject are nice too, not to mention a certain degree of diplomacy.


And, of course, I have been ninja'd most eloquently. Kudos. Although I think that saying Tidesinger is making a fool of himself is a bit harsh. He's objecting...very strongly...to something that has no direct impact on his life, and which was (presumably) intended to be use-optional, but he has as much right to be expressing his opinion as you and I do to be expressing ours.

[Catch]

Has it occurred to you that what you are doing falls under a "moral panic" as well?

Let me summarize your argument:

"Constraint of free speech in my podunk homebrew forum? EVIL!"

Free speech isn't the issue. Swinging your values around like a dire flail is.

It's nice that you have them, but not so much when you're beating someone about the head.

EDIT: Or what ^ just said. Either way.

[Doc Roc]

Actually, he's right. Using bulemia like that in your PrC is upsetting, and gives the class a kind of dark, horrible shock.

Oh, wait! That's the point! If TVT didn't want the class to be dark, horrible, disgusting, etc. he wouldn't have used the picture he did. If you think that a class that references bulemia is too dark for your games, don't use it. Unless TVT has threatened to come to your house and curb stomp you personally if you don't play one of these, you have the option of ignoring it, just like you can ignore the Blood Magus and the Cancer Mage. (If he has threatened to come curb stomp you if you don't play a bulpsi, call the police and then back away slowly...)

Okay, I'm willing to drop the issue. Let's talk about mechanics now.


Free speech isn't the issue. Swinging your values around like a dire flail is.

It's nice that you have them, but not so much when you're beating someone about the head.

Fancy. Let's drop it, because we'll never agree, and you seem determined to make me villainous here. This is Vorpal Tribble's work, not mine.

[Doc Roc]

All of this aside, as it stands, the mechanical aspects of this class could use some polish.

First: Power points aren't worth losing manifester levels over, particularly not a highly variable and unreliable source of power points. Thanks for problem the fifth, this isn't the issue it could be.

Second: Weight is a poor thing to base your class around, producing wildly variant swings in the gain-per-level. It interacts poorly with a number of psionic powers as well, particularly metamorphosis and fusion.

Third: In most reasonable cases, until mid way through the class, you would have gained an overall larger net increase in power points by just taking a full progression class.

Fourth: I need to know more about author-expectations, target power tier, and overall intent for net power points gained.

Fifth: The class is very badly front-loaded. A two level dip might gain me a couple hundred extra power points, if I rig my character out right.

Sixth: Allowing the movement of powers from personal to touch range is not good under any circumstances. There are precisely three ways to break this rule in D&D, and all of them are considered Bad News in the extreme.

[The Neoclassic]

Actually, he's right. Using bulemia like that in your PrC is upsetting, and gives the class a kind of dark, horrible shock.

Oh, wait! That's the point! If TVT didn't want the class to be dark, horrible, disgusting, etc. he wouldn't have used the picture he did. If you think that a class that references bulemia is too dark for your games, don't use it.

I do agree with your point, but I think it does stand that bulimia simply isn't an accurate term for the ability. My only objection to using it is that it's not the best description, compared with other suggestions which've been offered, not that the term itself is too innately offensive. VT's call though I suppose.

[Kallisti]

Okay, I'm willing to drop the issue. Let's talk about mechanics now.

All right. I'm sorry if I was being rude to you. It really is a very respectable thing that you have values. I just felt like you were failing to recognize TVT's right not to share those same values.

Mechanics? Let's talk mechanics now.


As a lovely segue, Blood Magus is a terrible class, mechanically. Basically, same problem as this one. Too many lost caster levels for too little gain. It either needs improved compensation, or improved casting. Something piddling like Full BAB might be a place to start.

This. I think that the class deserves close to full progression, becasue it's actually not all that powerful. Although the weigt-based abilities do need to be pinned down and made less open-ended. After all, what if I want to play a small race? I get screwed. But if I play a half-ogre with a Ring of Giant Size? Jackpot. All the power points I'll ever need...

EDIT: And

I do agree with your point, but I think it does stand that bulimia simply isn't an accurate term for the ability. My only objection to using it is that it's not the best description, compared with other suggestions which've been offered, not that the term itself is too innately offensive. VT's call though I suppose.

Personally, I think it fits, ir I'd be objecting, too. Bulemia is an eating disorder where a person binges and overeats, then purges. That's what this class does. The purging takes the form of burning tissue to fuel psionic powers instead of self-inducing vomiting, but it's the same basic idea.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

3.Sometimes, personal values are worth standing up for. Being outraged by someone glorifying an eating disorder is an ok personal value in my book.
If someone was doing that maybe, but I am not. I worked on the class before even coming up with a name. Actually meant to ask for suggestions in the first post but forgot.

This was based on a 2nd ed character I once had. I decided to make him a 500 lbs, 7 foot tall psion who specialized in that edition's equivalent of psychometabolic powers. Think giant sumo instead of massive obesity.

It was only after the concept that I realized some spells, such as shapechanging, was weight dependent. So he could actually turn into anything of his weight, which by this fluke was some pretty hefty things.

So I thought to myself, what if a psion purposely bulked up for use in manifestation. More raw material to influence and shape.

I actually have never looked up bulimia to see what it was til after I made this class and was searching the net for old stories of warriors that thought they gained powers by eating their enemies and similar. Just happened upon an article on bulimia.

However, of all things to get upset about, a friggin' eating disorder is really low on my list of tasteless things to mention. And guess what, I once was very large myself before I turned things around.

We do PrC's on insanity and no one says a word. Daily a new warrior PrC is out about how to kill in more imaginative ways.

If this is a touchy subject for you I'm sorry if I offended, but come on. Where do 'values' even come into this?

Edit: And while I was writing this the argument was supposedly dropped, but I spent too much time on it to delete it, so there.

[Doc Roc]

All right. I'm sorry if I was being rude to you. It really is a very respectable thing that you have values. I just felt like you were failing to recognize TVT's right not to share those same values.


This. I think that the class deserves close to full progression, becasue it's actually not all that powerful. Although the weigt-based abilities do need to be pinned down and made less open-ended. After all, what if I want to play a small race? I get screwed. But if I play a half-ogre with a Ring of Giant Size? Jackpot. All the power points I'll ever need...

We can talk about it via PM. Suffice to say that I'm considerably more bothered by the class's mechanical deficiencies rather than it's deficiencies of class ;) Right now, as you've highlighted, swingy class is swingy. And super-duper front loaded. This is a two level long PrC right now.

[The Neoclassic]

We do PrC's on insanity and no one says a word. Daily a new warrior PrC is out about how to kill in more imaginative ways.

Very true. I'd never really thought about that before, but it is quite a good point. Interesting what problems are "OK" to talk about or tie into D&D and which aren't. [/derailment]

[Kallisti]

All of this aside, as it stands, the mechanical aspects of this class could use some polish.

First: Power points aren't worth losing manifester levels over, particularly not a highly variable and unreliable source of power points. Thanks for problem the fifth, this isn't the issue it could be.

Second: Weight is a poor thing to base your class around, producing wildly variant swings in the gain-per-level. It interacts poorly with a number of psionic powers as well, particularly metamorphosis and fusion.

Third: In most reasonable cases, until mid way through the class, you would have gained an overall larger net increase in power points by just taking a full progression class.

Fourth: I need to know more about author-expectations, target power tier, and overall intent for net power points gained.

Fifth: The class is very badly front-loaded. A two level dip might gain me a couple hundred extra power points, if I rig my character out right.

Sixth: Allowing the movement of powers from personal to touch range is not good under any circumstances. There are precisely three ways to break this rule in D&D, and all of them are considered Bad News in the extreme.

1. Correct, which is why I think that giving more manifester levels is a better solution than giving more powerful abilities.
2. Correct. Basing it off Constitution could work, but I'd recommend using percentage of total body weight.
3. Again, correct, but if later in the class you get a significant enough net gain, that may be worth it. At the moment, though, you don't, unless you abuse the variability of the weight-based stuff bigtime.
4. Yeah, that would help.
5. Yes.
6. Finally, one I can actually disagree with. Most of the psion's personal-range powers will be benign, so it won't give him any immediate "I win" buttons, and unless there's a psionic equivalent of DMM: Persist cheese, the ability to share your personal buffs with your companions is powerful, but hardly game-breaking.

[Doc Roc]

6. Finally, one I can actually disagree with. Most of the psion's personal-range powers will be benign, so it won't give him any immediate "I win" buttons, and unless there's a psionic equivalent of DMM: Persist cheese, the ability to share your personal buffs with your companions is powerful, but hardly game-breaking.

This may be the case, I would need to do research. I just know that it's one of those Rules We Don't Break in D&D. One of the only ones, and one of the good ones. It probably will amount to nothing, you are correct.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

First: Power points aren't worth losing manifester levels over, particularly not a highly variable and unreliable source of power points. Thanks for problem the fifth, this isn't the issue it could be.
That's why you have everything else in the class.


Second: Weight is a poor thing to base your class around, producing wildly variant swings in the gain-per-level. It interacts poorly with a number of psionic powers as well, particularly metamorphosis and fusion.
Why? They have nothing to do with weight.


Fifth: The class is very badly front-loaded. A two level dip might gain me a couple hundred extra power points, if I rig my character out right.
How? 1 pp per 10 lbs. To get 200 pp you'll need to gain 2,000 lbs. If you mean with monsters, that's a valid point, despite the fact you could really abuse other published PrC's with the same argument. Perhaps I will make this humanoid only.


Sixth: Allowing the movement of powers from personal to touch range is not good under any circumstances. There are precisely three ways to break this rule in D&D, and all of them are considered Bad News in the extreme.
*sigh*

Gonna make me work are you...

Adapt Body - It's spell equivalent is Endure Elements which is a touch spell, no conflict.

Animal Affinity - Spell equivalent Cat's Grace, Bull's Endurance, Bear's Strength, etc. Touch spell in arcanity. No conflict.

Biofeedback - Giving someone damage reduction 2...

Chameleon - I know in some book there is a touch spell to grant someone a hide bonus. So no conflict.

Claws of the Beast/Claws of the Vampire/Compression - See above.

Dissolving Touch - you let someone else ooze acid from their hands. Is there conflict?

Ectoplasmic Form - Ok, now we're getting somewhere. This might actually have a negative impact. You can effectively stop someone from fighting with it but they get a load of bonuses. That's... not really a big deal is it? I mean, they still get saves against it.

Elfsight - Please...

Energy Adaption - see Chameleon.

Ok, i'm getting bored. Point is, if you can give me an example of a seriously abuseable use of this ability we can talk more.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Btw, don't anyone think I'm saying there are no valid points here, but I'm having to slog through a pretty thick miasma of 'Huh?' to get to them.

[Doc Roc]

They no longer need to be willing. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fusion)

Fusion allows you to take on the higher stats of whoever you merge with by the way. This technically includes weight. :|

They need not be sentient, only willing.

[LordZarth]

This is a very interesting class. The idea is very cool.

I especially love the Evolved Bulemia ability (although the name is kind of... I'm not sure): it's just a cool idea to me that, in times of need, this perverse manifester begins to burn his own body for raw power.

[Kallisti]

They no longer need to be willing. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fusion)

Fusion allows you to take on the higher stats of whoever you merge with by the way. This technically includes weight. :|

They need not be sentient, only willing.

...although, they do get a save, Psions have access to much less DC-boosting cheese than wizards, and you have to be able to manifest eighth-level powers, after losing manifester levels taking nine levels of bulpsi, so maybe this isn't all that bad. Powerful yes, but not truly horrifying.

My knowledge of the psionics rules is not encylopedic, however, so if I'm wrong about the DC-boosts, then this could be a problem. It will never live up to the power of foreisght-celerity-timestop with Craft Contingent Spell, but it could still be a problem.

[Doc Roc]

"Bullybody (Su): At 9th level a bulpsi's bodily functions are so dominating that he may force a psychometabolic power with a range of touch on a target even if normally they must be willing or is self only. For a moment his mind literally takes a hold of their bodily functions and makes them his own."


Where's the save?

[Kallisti]

I assumed that because it never specified they recieve no save, they do get one.

That's... not really a big deal is it? I mean, they still get saves against it.


And he said so.

TVT, he's right, though. You should change the ability to specify that they do, in fact, get a save.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem with making Personal stuff Touch is that Touch can then be extended beyond, then Chained to affect multiple targets. It's not so much that you can hurt people with it, but doing that with something like Fission is... scary. All PC's now have twice as many turns?

[Kallisti]

Is there a psionic version of Chain Spell?

[Doc Roc]

It's even OGL. However, it sucks. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Chain_Power)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's even OGL. However, it sucks. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Chain_Power)

If you can chain things like Schism, then it goes from Suck to Crack in a single doubling of actions...

[Godskook]

If you can chain things like Schism, then it goes from Suck to Crack in a single doubling of actions...

You can only chain things that deal damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You can only chain things that deal damage.

Hmm... upon reading the particulars, the psionic version does seem to have cut off that potential.

However, you want broken? How about casting Temporal Acceleration as a buff. Even single-target, that's pretty sick.

[Forevernade]

I see this PrC as more of a BBEG build anyways. Conceptually I think it would be fun in a madness campaign, chasing some seemingly slovenly ball of lard around but he always manages to get away... HOW?!?!! The imagery is just too great, like when WC3 made the Abominations for undead, that was a glorious moment.

[Cieyrin]

I think nailing down the food to weight conversion also needs to be done, as there currently isn't a way of judging how much one would need to eat to get back weight used as power points or the time of that conversion. Considering you're making it a meaningful statistic, fleshing it out would do much to help balance the system a bit. I'm not a nutritionist or know anyone who is, so you got me on how you'd work that, as it's left more as a side detail in normal D&D, really.

[Chumbaniya]

I don't often post here, but I have to say I'm finding it pretty hilarious that people are outraged by the reference to an eating disorder in a game which takes as pretty much its core principle that violence should be used to solve all of your problems and which is heavily reliant on judging the moral value of a being by its race or colour.

D&D is FANTASY. Chill out.