OOTS #678 - The Discussion Thread [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

smilr

2009-09-13, 02:41 AM

I don't see the point in the bearded guy provoking V into blasting him if he didnt need the diamond dust

I'd presume that in order for an elven legal summons to be valid, the person providing the summons must:

A) Verify the identity of the person being provided legal documents.

B) Have said person willingly take the document.

How would you convince a potentially hostile and potentially non-lawful wizard to say his full name out loud AND take a scroll from you in the sight of witnesses, when you are a complete stranger? While also giving yourself enough time to cast a teleport spell to get your vulnerable self + witness out of there?

Considering the last time V's mate saw hir, hir was drunk on arcane power, and acting decidedly chaotic evil. Better to take the sneaky route than the straight up lawful-good "here's your summons" approach.

Edit: dang - beaten to the punch :p

The Recreator

2009-09-13, 02:42 AM

I don't see the point in the bearded guy provoking V into blasting him if he didnt need the diamond dustMaybe randomly provoking strangers was his best way of finding V? You know, the elf who decided to extinguish a whole family line of dragons because of the possibility of a threat from one of them?

…

In retrospect, that turban guy might have decided it wasn't such a smart move.

Kalbron

2009-09-13, 02:44 AM

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 02:45 AM

Damn. For all V's efforts to avoid those two idiot lawyers again...

Teatime

2009-09-13, 02:50 AM

I'd presume that in order for an elven legal summons to be valid, the person providing the summons must:

A) Verify the identity of the person being provided legal documents.

B) Have said person willingly take the document.

This is actually the case with our real world legal system, not just OotSverse Elven legal systems. I know a guy who does this job for a living - things such as going into an auto repair shop, asking around for a certain employee, and when they come over and say, "Yeah, I'm {name}," handing them the summons. Of course, the stakes are a bit higher when dealing with powerful Elven wizards!

Though, I didn't get the joke of the last panel. What is "Dawnmij?" Is this supposed to mean something to us, or is it only over my head because I'm not a hardcore DnD player?

Kalbron

2009-09-13, 02:50 AM

Damn. For all V's efforts to avoid those two idiot lawyers again...

See, that's where actually being an evil archmage would help him! Soul Trap the only two lawyers in the world and you'll never end up in a proper court!

Edit:

Though, I didn't get the joke of the last panel. What is "Dawnmij?" Is this supposed to mean something to us, or is it only over my head because I'm not a hardcore DnD player?

Instant Summons is a spell that calls an item to you instantly. Dawnmij is probably an arcanist lawyer/solicitor of some sort. Hence the "fast legal documents" joke.

Tingel

2009-09-13, 02:54 AM

This is actually the case with our real world legal system, not just OotSverse Elven legal systems.
The United States are not the whole real world.

Turban wizard has served his purpose now, so he'll most likely won't show up anymore. I thought he would play a bigger role, since he had an unusual body type.

Surfing HalfOrc

2009-09-13, 02:57 AM

Now THAT was unexpected! :smallconfused:

Porthos

2009-09-13, 02:58 AM

Though, I didn't get the joke of the last panel. What is "Dawnmij?" Is this supposed to mean something to us, or is it only over my head because I'm not a hardcore DnD player?

It's a parody of "Drawmij's Instant Summons" which is the name of the spell in 3.5. But since Drawmij is copyrighted by the holders of the DnD license, Rich had to tweak the name slightly. :smallwink:

Nevrmore

2009-09-13, 03:14 AM

doliest

2009-09-13, 03:16 AM

Considering the look on the face of the turban guy when he hears V's name it's possible that he didn't know who V was; maybe he really wanted the diamond dust and only realized who V was when V gave his/her name and then decided to do his job. I haven't checked locater spells recently, is diamond dust a component?

DrakebloodIV

2009-09-13, 03:16 AM

Turban wizard has served his purpose now, so he'll most likely won't show up anymore. I thought he would play a bigger role, since he had an unusual body type.

I dunno, I think more D&D wizards should be pudgy. I mean they all spend weeks on end just sitting in a room obsessing over a spell...

Also, is the Giant trying to characterize V as still neutral, cause he is acting a lot like that. Even if V is trying to be good, I'd consider him CN with good tendencies.

mescaLEO

2009-09-13, 03:17 AM

Lol,this is not good.
However nice to note everybody was making suggestions and the solution was yet so simple (and not simple at same time... :smalleek: )

doliest

2009-09-13, 03:18 AM

Vaarsuvius shouldn't feel bad, his spouse seems to be a fickle bitch if she's going to divorce him for one event. Yeah, he showed an unabashed evil and great, unchained power, but within the DnD-universe you should probably expect that sort of thing.

Also to defend V's spouse, that wasn't a simple 'one event' that was V showing up looking completely evil and then proceeding to do some rather horrible things and then proceed to completely ignore the spouse and any offer to reconcile and fix the problem.

daggaz

2009-09-13, 03:19 AM

nice that was fast! ==)

Dra-Goon

2009-09-13, 03:20 AM

Ouch for V.:smalleek:

Omegonthesane

2009-09-13, 03:20 AM

It's a parody of "Drawmij's Instant Summons" which is the name of the spell in 3.5. But since Drawmij is copyrighted by the holders of the DnD license, Rich had to tweak the name slightly. :smallwink:

Hang on, I'm seeing Drawmij's Instant Summons, not Dawnmij... Maybe I need to wipe my cache and refresh?

Also, that lawyer has balls for doing his job that way.
And... "the important thing is that this needless conflict is now over WITHOUT the loser's entire family line getting totally eradicated." :smallbiggrin:

Nevrmore

2009-09-13, 03:21 AM

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 03:21 AM

Poor, poor V.:smallfrown:

*Hugs Vaarsuvius*

Hey, at least I know of a nice evil drow you could get together with!

Or there's always Belkar.

:vaarsuvius::eek:"Expeditious Retreat!"

shadowxknight

2009-09-13, 03:22 AM

Good to see that the comic is updating regularly again.

But dang, that sucks for poor V.

AxeD

2009-09-13, 03:24 AM

Oh snap! Did not expect that!

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 03:24 AM

Ouch. Poor V.

And three cheers for regular updates! Fine work, Giant. Glad your break has left you motivated and healthy enough to keep up the ideal schedule, at least for the moment. :smallsmile:

David Argall

2009-09-13, 03:25 AM

Got one and missed one. Of course, it was rather obvious we were going to see at least a little more of Turban, so it was not a great hit. And while the divorce was not unpredictable, it is rather a surprising way to be served, indeed to the point of being rather forced. Still, servers are known to use rather devious tactics to serve someone when the target might prove difficult, and the fact we are talking about the unknown elven legal system gives our writer some room to maneuver. But we may be getting a hint that V will really need those diamond in the future.

As noted, the instant summons was a D&D joke, playing off a spell that worked in the opposite direction.

sam79

2009-09-13, 03:26 AM

Once again, surprised by the turn that OotS has taken; and V was doing so much better before that turbaned wizard turned up!

All very sad for V; I was hoping for some sort of slow reconciliation with her mate, rather than a speedy divorce. I don't suppose that one totally rules out the possibility for the other, but it looks like the OotS happy ending quotient has just taken another big hit.

I never understood how so many people seemed to take such a harsh view of V's mate; to me his reactions in his previous appearances were not unreasonable given the circumstances. I suppose this is a logical and reasonable next step for him to take, but maybe a little premature. Two days is not much time, especially for an Elf, to take such a drastic measure.

Dark Faun

2009-09-13, 03:28 AM

It was already said but I'll repeat it: unexpected. Completely unexpected.

Nothing ever goes V's way... :smallfrown:

Porthos

2009-09-13, 03:28 AM

Hang on, I'm seeing Drawmij's Instant Summons, not Dawnmij... Maybe I need to wipe my cache and refresh?

Well, ignore the parody bit then. :smallwink: I was just going by what the poster had typed. :smalltongue:

As for the "suddenness" of this and the "one time event", I thought it was fairly obvious that there were preexisting tensions due to V leaving in the first place way back when. So this might have been a (very large) straw that broke the camels back.

Also, V could have tried to send a Sending spell, trying to tell Kyrie what was going on. Might have helped the situation a bit.

Or not. But I think NOT contacting Kyrie certainly didn't help the situation any.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 03:29 AM

Well this only confirms what was known for a while now: V's mate is an ungrateful arrogant sod who never understood V at all.

Hopefully V gets decent custody arrangements with the children and never has to interact with his supposed other half ever again.

I can't say I blame Kyrie considering what V had looked and acted like, but I did hope that she'd.... I don't know... try to clear the situation up a bit before actually suing for a divorce. After all, this is the same universe that has things like mind control and helms of opposite alignment and so on. For her, who'd been in contact with V for only several minutes, there was no telling how much of V's antics were to blame on himself and how much on whatever weird effect he was under. It would have made sense to at least have Aarindarius look into it.

It might mean that Kyrie doesn't trust V all that much... or, as Porthos said, there were already pre-existing tensions. Which is sad. :smallfrown:

I don't think we WILL have a second tedious trial scene, because that WOULD be tedious. I find it more likely that this will just serve as a prompt for Vaarsuvius to get off his elven behind and start trying to fix his marital situation.

Omegonthesane

2009-09-13, 03:31 AM

But we may be getting a hint that V will really need those diamond in the future.

Alternately, we could be in for a one-panel statement that Durkon went in separately and bought the diamond dust instead.

Porthos

2009-09-13, 03:33 AM

Wait a mo...

We are 40+ posts in and NO ONE has asked the rather obvious running gag rethorical question yet about Kyrie's motivations.

I am soooo dissapointed in all of you. :smalltongue:

doliest

2009-09-13, 03:36 AM

Again, probably something you should at least have some mental preparation for when you're married to a significantly powerful wizard. I mean, if we're assuming that his spouse still believes him under the influence of all-consuming evil (probably the best assumption), what kind of dumbass would she be to try and divorce him? All-consuming evil probably has no qualms with skinning ex-wives alive and making quilts of their epidermis.

I'm thinking that even in the context of the OOTS-verse, what V did was worthy of divorce. Really I doubt the spouse it blaming mind-control it seems more likely he/she's realized where V's priority's are.

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 03:38 AM

Wait a mo...

We are 40+ posts in and NO ONE has asked the rather obvious running gag rethorical question yet about Kyrie's motivations.

I am soooo dissapointed in all of you. :smalltongue:

What running gag/rhetorical question? :smallconfused:

@V you see, this is what happens when I purposely make myself forget about things.

Dark Faun

2009-09-13, 03:38 AM

Porthos

2009-09-13, 03:39 AM

What running gag/rhetorical question? :smallconfused:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

*tries to look innocent*

I'm thinking that even in the context of the OOTS-verse, what V did was worthy of divorce. Really I doubt the spouse it blaming mind-control it seems more likely he/she's realized where V's priority's are.

So you're saying that Kyrie was morally justified when he decided to sue Suvie for a divorce? :smalltongue:

*lights flash paper*
*runs away, incredibly fast*

....

The "morally justified" one.

*ducks back in for a sec*

Yeah. That's the one. :smallwink:

*resumes running away*

Prak

2009-09-13, 03:39 AM

Well this only confirms what was known for a while now: V's mate is an ungrateful arrogant sod who never understood V at all.

Hopefully V gets decent custody arrangements with the children and never has to interact with his supposed other half ever again.

I can say with some related-but-not-direct-experience that even if this is the case, V's going to be pretty devastated for some time. Shi seems to truly love hir spouse, and even if this is a kick to the nuts (ovaries?) and V winds up realizing what a sorry excuse for a person Kyrie is (may be), it's going to hurt like hell. In fact any pain shi may be in while paying the cost of the splice will seem like a caress compared to the pain of the love of your life kicking you to the floor without so much as a hesitant thought because they have no use for you anymore.

Expect V to get some RP experience and maybe an apprentice.

Joerg

2009-09-13, 03:39 AM

Poor V. I don't think anyone expected that of the turban wizard.

It would be very suicidal of him to provoke V in order to get him to say his name if V was still soul-spliced. I can't believe that was the original plan. Neither does it make sense to provoke random wizards and get lightning bolts (or similar) again and again until finally you find the right one.

Therefore, my theory is that the turban guy knew it was V, and also knew that the soul-splice had ended. It may be possible that the divorce should only take effect if V is either still soul-spliced or if he is still aggressive. Then, turban guy sees V in red robes, and must provoke him to find out whether the terms apply.

I don't really get the joke in the last panel. What item was summoned by whom? The legal papers by the turban wizard? But that only works if he had the papers before some time earlier, which seems implausible.

Also, only two days have passed since V was home? That means the ship passage to Sandsedge took at most one day. I had assumed a longer voyage.

Blanth

2009-09-13, 03:41 AM

I feel sort of bad with the fact I could tell it was a summons as soon as I saw Turban Guy (Likely Not A Wizard At All) offering the scroll...

lothos

2009-09-13, 03:43 AM

Now that's a classic strip. Great payoff from the last strip, it just seemed like turban guy was after the diamond dust, but........... :-)

And yes, I think V's mate probably was morally justified in suing for divorce :-)

Poor, poor V.:smallfrown:

*Hugs Vaarsuvius*

Hey, at least I know of a nice evil drow you could get together with!

Or there's always Belkar.

:vaarsuvius::eek:"Expeditious Retreat!"

I guess the divorce wouldn't be happening if V had followed the "advice" of your avatar :-)

sam79

2009-09-13, 03:44 AM

I'm thinking that even in the context of the OOTS-verse, what V did was worthy of divorce. Really I doubt the spouse it blaming mind-control it seems more likely he/she's realized where V's priority's are.

You are probably right; but I think Nevrmore's point was more that it was dangerous for Kyrie (and the kids) to potentially provoke Evil V by taking such a step, rather than unjustified.

Given that Evil V showed herself capable of wiping out the family of her enemies, putting yourself in the 'enemy' column by suing for divorce is probably not too sensible.

Prak

2009-09-13, 03:45 AM

The "morally justified" one.

It seems Kyrie still resents Vaarsuvius for not devoting every single moment of her life to her and their children. She doesn't seem to like the idea of V having other priorities besides them.

I was thinking referencing the eternal question of V's gender. In real life (US at least) failure to consumate is grounds for divorce and annulment...

Porthos

2009-09-13, 03:46 AM

It seems Kyrie still resents Vaarsuvius for not devoting every single moment of her life to her and their children. She doesn't seem to like the idea of V having other priorities besides them.

What on earth do you base that on? :smallconfused:

There's a wee bit of a difference between "Hey I haven't seen you in years, and now you're here all Glowy and Evil. What's up with that?" and "drop everything you are doing and wait on me hand and foot" you know.

Maybe we should try to get Kyrie's side of the story first before, you know, saying that he's a total *BOOP*. :smallsmile:

Prak

2009-09-13, 03:47 AM

I don't really get the joke in the last panel. What item was summoned by whom? The legal papers by the turban wizard? But that only works if he had the papers before some time earlier, which seems implausible.

It's a play on words. To "summon" something is to call it to hand, a "summons" is a court calling someone to appear.

Lord_Ventnor

2009-09-13, 03:47 AM

The "morally justified" one.

It seems Kyrie still resents Vaarsuvius for not devoting every single moment of her life to her and their children. She doesn't seem to like the idea of V having other priorities besides them.

I think it's less "other priorities" and more "just one priority."

And if you think that one priority is V's marriage, I have a bridge to sell you.

doliest

2009-09-13, 03:48 AM

The "morally justified" one.

It seems Kyrie still resents Vaarsuvius for not devoting every single moment of her life to her and their children. She doesn't seem to like the idea of V having other priorities besides them.

Let's see what ONLY V's mate knows just because I like a challenge.

V has been gone for six years
V has transformed his self severly and now looks like a vampire
V has just wiped out an entire 1/4th of a population
V stated that he is making a deal with INFERNALS in order to save them
V refuses to end the deal after saving them
V leaves them in order to conduct 'further business.'

Honestly this is one step below, 'Convicted serial killer' on reasons to divorce.

Edit:Above poster made a good point above.

oxinabox

2009-09-13, 03:48 AM

poor V.
poor poor V.
Off topic, i'm going to miss beklar...

Prak

2009-09-13, 03:50 AM

This is why I think V was mistaken in falling in love with a baker and not a fellow arcanist. A fellow arcanist will understand his everlasting quest for ultimate arcane power, and even help (with the assumption that they'll share it, and anything short of a pair of saturday morning cartoon villians or yuppies would)

Edit:Above poster made a good point above.

really? you'd divorce over that? I'd at least want to know their reason for commiting murder. and being the evil bastard I am, the list of acceptable reasons... well, exists...

sam79

2009-09-13, 03:53 AM

Also, only two days have passed since V was home? That means the ship passage to Sandsedge took at most one day. I had assumed a longer voyage.

Yeah that make me think too. I suppose Strip 672 could imply a short voyage; after a couple of short conversations, the ship is already in sight of land. I had just kinda assumed that a fair bit of time (a week, perhaps?) had passed between the last two panals.

KIDS

2009-09-13, 03:54 AM

Poor poor poor V :(

infiniteviking

2009-09-13, 03:55 AM

Whoa. That was unexpected.

I guess now we get to see whether all V's previous posturing on the subject of marriage (the happiest day of my long life / I would use every shred of my arcane power to fight for my love / the whole TOUCH MY FAMILY AND DIE HORRIBLY thing) extends to trying to fix something like this.

Dark Faun

2009-09-13, 03:55 AM

I think it's less "other priorities" and more "just one priority."

And if you think that one priority is V's marriage, I have a bridge to sell you.

Let's see what ONLY V's mate knows just because I like a challenge.

V has been gone for six years
V has transformed his self severly and now looks like a vampire
V has just wiped out an entire 1/4th of a population
V stated that he is making a deal with INFERNALS in order to save them
V refuses to end the deal after saving them
V leaves them in order to conduct 'further business.'

Honestly this is one step below, 'Convicted serial killer' on reasons to divorce.

Edit:Above poster made a good point above.
I was refering to the fact Kyrie wanted V to give up the soul splice without even considering he had other people to help/save with it.

Melamoto

2009-09-13, 03:56 AM

"the important thing is that this needless conflict is now over WITHOUT the loser's entire family line getting totally eradicated." :smallbiggrin:

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 03:59 AM

"the important thing is that this needless conflict is now over WITHOUT the loser's entire family line getting totally eradicated." :smallbiggrin:

At least we have definite proof that Blackwing knows about the Soul Splice.

doliest

2009-09-13, 04:00 AM

really? you'd divorce over that? I'd at least want to know their reason for commiting murder. and being the evil bastard I am, the list of acceptable reasons... well, exists...

No, but it does add to list and quite possibly puts us at, 'convicted serial killer' territory.

sam79

2009-09-13, 04:02 AM

This is why I think V was mistaken in falling in love with a baker and not a fellow arcanist.

Well, since when was falling in love a matter of rational choice? Though she could perhaps have denied her feelings on the basis that relationships between adventuring wizards and stay-at-home bakers are bound to fail.

I don't think Kyrie had a problem with V killing the dragon, and maybe not even all the dragon's family. He could even, perhaps, has accepted the Deal with the Devil, if V had released herself following the achievement of her stated goal of saving her family. Her refusual to do so, however, revealed to him something altogether abhorrant about V's priorities.

Porthos

2009-09-13, 04:03 AM

I was refering to the fact Kyrie wanted V to give up the soul splice without even considering he had other people to help/save with it.

Well, without dredging up that debate again (and I suspect not dredging it up is going to be a lost cause, but what the hey :smalltongue:), maybe Kyrie didn't exactly buy Suvie's stated reasons about how noble he was being. Maybe he wanted Suvie to, you know, pay attention to the one thing that is supposed to be the most important in his life.

Let's not forget, Kyrie went through a wee bit of trauma himself there. :smallwink:

Berserk Monk

2009-09-13, 04:04 AM

Oh boy! Another sub-plot! Also, why would you ever give your name to a spellcaster? That's just asking to be scried on. All in all, I liked the joke in the last panel.

aka Argent

2009-09-13, 04:06 AM

Cute episode, must suck to be a process server in OOTS, though. Expensive to hire, too, have to pony up a bond for a full resurrection in case that teleport spell doesn't get cast in time. As for why, well, one can just guess V's mate is probably in the prototypical Chaotic Good school of NPC Elves and s/he watched V commit an atrocity in front of the Children and make them cry.

The time isn't a factor, these are Elves after all, they count their time in decades. But childhood trauma? For an Elf that's got to count for quite a lot, just imagine what a few centuries worth of therapy is going to cost.

"Thanks for traumatizing the kids, dear. Now we've got to come up with the GDP of a medium sized kingdom to pay for all the counseling they're going to need. I hope you're proud of yourself!"

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 04:12 AM

I guess the divorce wouldn't be happening if V had followed the "advice" of your avatar :-)

"Mind Rape - it holds families together!" :smallbiggrin:

Think of the children. :smallwink:

Joerg

2009-09-13, 04:17 AM

It's a play on words. To "summon" something is to call it to hand, a "summons" is a court calling someone to appear.

Ah, thank you. I didn't realize V was summoned with that paper; I thought it would be only informational. Probably some legal thing I don't know.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 04:20 AM

Let's see what ONLY V's mate knows just because I like a challenge.

V has been gone for six years
V has transformed his self severly and now looks like a vampire
V has just wiped out an entire 1/4th of a population
V stated that he is making a deal with INFERNALS in order to save them
V refuses to end the deal after saving them
V leaves them in order to conduct 'further business.'

Honestly this is one step below, 'Convicted serial killer' on reasons to divorce.

Edit:Above poster made a good point above.

The problem is that all but the very first of those things happened in a span of several minutes, all part of a single event. And the vampire-appearance thing above everything should be enough to suggest that V IS NOT HIMSELF, not completely at least. Anything as simple as a Helm of Opposite Alignment or the direct effects of the pact with fiends would explain V's behaviour without making it necessary to really hold it against him. Suing for something like this would be similar to the Order kicking Belkar out after Nale had charmed him into attacking them. (To clear things up: I'm talking about how things appeared to Kyrie. Of course we know that, say, the Splice had no actual effect on V's alignment and such. But Kyrie didn't know that and had every reason to suspect the opposite, given the obvious effect on his appearance.)

No, it seems that Kyrie is suing because, in her eyes, V had made a deal with fiends for the ultimate power he had been seeking, and she and the children were just an excuse, something he never truly cared about. While some forumites here would agree with this interpretation, the love of one's life jumping to a conclusion like that is thoroughly depressing. It probably means that things were less than smooth even before V left. :smallfrown:

doliest

2009-09-13, 04:24 AM

The problem is that all but the very first of those things happened in a span of several minutes, all part of a single event. And the vampire-appearance thing above everything should be enough to suggest that V IS NOT HIMSELF, not completely at least. Anything as simple as a Helm of Opposite Alignment or the direct effects of the pact with fiends would explain V's behaviour without making it necessary to really hold it against him. Suing for something like this would be similar to the Order kicking Belkar out after Nale had charmed him into attacking them.

No, it seems that Kyrie is suing because, in her eyes, V had made a deal with fiends for the ultimate power he had been seeking, and she and the children were just an excuse, something he never truly cared about. While some forumites here would agree with this interpretation, the love of one's life jumping to a conclusion like that is thoroughly depressing. It probably means that things were less than smooth even before V left. :smallfrown:

Everything V does and says seems to imply complete self-control. What this implies is that Kyrie has realized that V both doesn't care about them and that he has likely jumped into the dark side head first.

2009-09-13, 04:28 AM

Order of the Stick! Amazing action! Mind bending fantasy! Senses shattering marraige drama! And... w-w-w-wait what?

Yeahhhh... this one gets about half-a-star from me sorry.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 04:29 AM

Everything V does and says seems to imply complete self-control.
Having self-control does not exclude something affecting you. To use my example, an alignment-altering effect would change V's behaviour while allowing him to retain his free will (self-control).

What this implies is that Kyrie has realized that V both doesn't care about them and that he has likely jumped into the dark side head first.
I agree that that's probably what Kyrie thought. :smallfrown: It's just... odd, really. We didn't exactly have reason to think of marriage problems before this incident, given V's cutesy nickname and the macaroni pictures and the whole "finest day of my long life" bit... I hope we'll learn more about what the actual marriage situation was like. It sounds like Kyrie doesn't trust V at all, if she jumped to a horrible conclusion like that so quickly, but it doesn't seem to fit what we saw and heard of her before that...

doliest

2009-09-13, 04:32 AM

Having self-control does not exclude something affecting you. To use my example, an alignment-altering effect would change V's behaviour while allowing him to retain his free will (self-control).
Discounting that most items that do that are highly visible, V stated why he looked different and the basics of the deal ensuring that Kyrie knows that he is in control.

doliest

2009-09-13, 04:36 AM

I agree that that's probably what Kyrie thought. :smallfrown: It's just... odd, really. We didn't exactly have reason to think of marriage problems before this incident, given V's cutesy nickname and the macaroni pictures and the whole "finest day of my long life" bit... I hope we'll learn more about what the actual marriage situation was like. It sounds like Kyrie doesn't trust V at all, if she jumped to a horrible conclusion like that so quickly, but it doesn't seem to fit what we saw and heard of her before that...

Well ignoring the likely mental trauma that comes with a gaint black dragon arriving, attacking, and about to do horrible things and your love arriving, only they look completely different, are now acting quite different, have sold(Time shared) their soul to Infernals and to cap it off refuses to listen to your valid point that if they did this to save you then why do they maintain their power, I'd put a guess that even with elves six years without seeing your spouse has some bad effects.

Edit:Actually putting aside our debate for a moment, the marriage is likely to have been either a very good or a very bad one. Focusing on everything we know pre-dragon attack. V has been gone six years and yet the children still make macaroni pictures and the spouse is happily assuring them that other parent will be home soon after they get back from what is essentially a business trip with no communication in said last six years, I know it's elves but does anyone else get a weird feeling here?:smalleek:

Selene

2009-09-13, 04:46 AM

Hang on, I'm seeing Drawmij's Instant Summons, not Dawnmij... Maybe I need to wipe my cache and refresh?

I am so glad you said that. I was sitting here going "where does it say Dawnmij??" LOL.

I was thinking referencing the eternal question of V's gender. In real life (US at least) failure to consumate is grounds for divorce and annulment...

As is abandonment.

What on earth do you base that on? :smallconfused:

There's a wee bit of a difference between "Hey I haven't seen you in years, and now you're here all Glowy and Evil. What's up with that?" and "drop everything you are doing and wait on me hand and foot" you know.

Maybe we should try to get Kyrie's side of the story first before, you know, saying that he's a total *BOOP*. :smallsmile:

Also this. ^

really? you'd divorce over that?

Over not seeing or hearing from him in years? That would be an unqualified yes. But the vampiric familicidal maniac part certainly doesn't help his case.

mckaskle

2009-09-13, 04:59 AM

well, that was a long way to go for a joke.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 05:01 AM

Discounting that most items that do that are highly visible,
Only an experienced adventurer would know that, which Kyrie isn't. Knowledge that there are things that make people act different to what's normal for them (like possession by demons, which was Kyrie's first guess), seems rather common, though.

V stated why he looked different and the basics of the deal ensuring that Kyrie knows that he is in control.
V shows up looking sadistically evil and acting sadistically evil. He then says he made a deal with fiends. Even if he's claiming to be free-willed, it's reasonable to think that his appearance and behaviour are all part of one package, rather than something that spontaneously surfaced from the hidden depths of his personality after decades of being a reasonably decent person.

Considering that, it makes perfect sense for Kyrie to have tried to convince V to give up the Splice at once, using any psychological triggers she could think of. If the Splice really was responsible for V's change of behaviour, then giving it up was the best solution in her eyes. But now that she presumably thinks the effect is over, suing without even bothering to at least understand the situation seems rather cruel and foolish.

Anyway, I dislike quibbling over details. I think Kyrie had reasons to have more faith in V, you disagree. The conclusion is the same either way. Moving on. :smalltongue:

Delorges

2009-09-13, 05:03 AM

Oh shi---

Didn't see that coming. Dang, poor V. :smallfrown:

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 05:07 AM

Well ignoring the likely mental trauma that comes with a gaint black dragon arriving, attacking, and about to do horrible things and your love arriving, only they look completely different, are now acting quite different, have sold(Time shared) their soul to Infernals and to cap it off refuses to listen to your valid point that if they did this to save you then why do they maintain their power, I'd put a guess that even with elves six years without seeing your spouse has some bad effects.

Of course. I'm perfectly understanding of Kyrie's decision (as I said in the beginning, I don't blame her), I'm just outlining why I think this still indicates a lack of faith in V. (I'm also eager to point out that Vaarsuvius wasn't exactly lacking in trauma factors, himself. :smalltongue:)
Also...

and to cap it off refuses to listen to your valid point that if they did this to save you then why do they maintain their power
My issue with this part is that in the comic, Kyrie asks Vaarsuvius that, but ultimately cuts him off just as he begins to answer. I'm very sympathetic of Kyrie's state but that kind of behaviour seems more self-righteous than it is healthy... There are other ways to explain it, of course, such as that she was just frantically scrambling for any way to influence Vaarsuvius, even by putting down her heel and demanding he do as she says, but it doesn't seem right.

Edit:Actually putting aside our debate for a moment, the marriage is likely to have been either a very good or a very bad one. Focusing on everything we know pre-dragon attack. V has been gone six years and yet the children still make macaroni pictures and the spouse is happily assuring them that other parent will be home soon after they get back from what is essentially a business trip with no communication in said last six years, I know it's elves but does anyone else get a weird feeling here?:smalleek:

Agreed, it strikes me as odd as well and the main reason why Kyrie's rejection of V took me by surprise. Although, for elves, six years is probably the equivalent to maybe about a year or so in human terms...

Oh, here's something else...

after they get back from what is essentially a business trip with no communication in said last six years,

Over not seeing or hearing from him in years? That would be an unqualified yes.

Where are we getting this from? :smallconfused: We know that V has been away for six years. We have no proof whatsoever of a complete lack of communication. A letter, say, once a year, with the probable exception of the time during the fleet arc, would seem perfectly reasonable. And no, the fact that he's so self-absorbed and studious doesn't serve as proof either, because by that logic he wouldn't even have married in the first place.

Scion_of_Darkness

2009-09-13, 05:07 AM

.....OWNED!

Well done Giant. Well done.

The_Firenail

2009-09-13, 05:08 AM

"...the important thing is that this needless conflict is now over WITHOUT the loser's entire family line getting totally eradicated."

Right. The question now is, who's the loser?

V certainly seems to have lost her family. :smalltongue:

I wasn't asking you!
We'd be lucky if V gets sued for alimony and loses everything and is forced to live with its brother. But not like Two and a Half Men because V gets no custory of the kids.

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 05:14 AM

Kobold-Bard

2009-09-13, 05:20 AM

Awwww, poor V. Do you think "attempted genocide while magically shackled to three evil souls" was already on the divorce papers as a reason for divorce, or did they have to write it out themselves?

Although what did the Wizard mean by served. Is it an American thing?

Edit: Also Zanaril, all of a sudden your avatar seems extremely clairvoyant :smallamused:

Iranon

2009-09-13, 05:26 AM

V ended the soul splice and had some time to put herself together... and apparently didn't contact Inkyrius in the meantime. The only surprise comes in how quickly his spouse is filing for the divorce, but we didn't know how much time elapsed before today's strip and there is little to suggest V would have done anything about the matter in the next weeks.

Regarding the marriage... this is believable even if the marriage had been as idyllic as the glances we got suggest.
Faustian pacts, unsettling appearance, genocide, powers beyond the understanding of most archmages, being involved in events ... even without any blame, it would be quite hard to relate to such a larger-than-life person. V also stated in parting that there is no going back, that he has other pressing obligations that require her to hold on to such powers.

I can understand filing for divorce, for the good of everyone involved. Although I'd say an effort to at least communicate beforehand would have been preferable, for both sides.

Tyrael

2009-09-13, 05:27 AM

Prak

2009-09-13, 05:30 AM

Over not seeing or hearing from him in years? That would be an unqualified yes. But the vampiric familicidal maniac part certainly doesn't help his case.

the six years without word, yeah, I agree. I was quibbling over the convicted murder thing.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 05:36 AM

the six years without word, yeah, I agree. I was quibbling over the convicted murder thing.

Who says it was without word? :smallconfused:

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 05:39 AM

Bago!!!

2009-09-13, 05:40 AM

Poor V. :smallfrown:

Oh well, can't say this wasn't unexpected. Still, I think the spouse needs to show some understanding, I mean what did V do? He showed up in his black robes!

... and wrought terrible destruction to his opponent to whom he mercilessly beat down.
...... and performed necromancy to drive it home with the revenge statement.
......... and eradicated the dragon's entire family.
............ AND endanger the family through his career choice.

But still, its not like nothing is greater than his love for his family...
His adventuring career and his pursuit of arcane power aside...
And its not that he left his family in their time of need... Oh wait... He did do that.

... I'll retract my original statement...

In any case, great update!

And in more of Kyrie's defense, he witnessed a terrible act of evil and realized that his spouse made a pact with outsiders who glow with wickedness. Not only that, dropped them off with the words, "I must fix this."

Kyrie may be thinking for her own safety and the consequances this will have on the children. I mean, really! How would you react if your own children bore witness to the destruction of an entire family? Just saying.

In any case, I think its rather fitting. To dabble witht he infernal powers has reprecussions, on more than just the beginning of your afterlife.

Prak

2009-09-13, 05:44 AM

Who says it was without word? :smallconfused:

it's been the general assumption it seems.

Omegonthesane

2009-09-13, 05:48 AM

I'm hoping the Giant does something to try and make V's mate not come across as such a douchebag in further strips. As terrible as V's actions were, the fact that they were commited to save his/her life and not merely the lives but the very souls of their children should mitigate a lot. The fact that V's mate was completely uninterested in hearing even the slightest further explanation as to what V's powers might still be needed for is also a pretty big knock against him/her.

This entire issue would be much more understandable if there were a deeper history of marital problems between the two and this was just the last straw. V seems like the kinda guy/gal who might have been really neglectful of his/her family, so that shouldn't be too hard to illustrate in the future. But if this is it, and until now things have been relatively fine, then V is probably better off without his current spouse. Good riddance.

This is asking for a trial scene. Since elves are chaotic, it won't necessarily be quite as long as the trial of Roy Greenhilt for blowing up Dorukan's tower. It's like arguing about D&D alignments; we really don't have enough to go on either for V or against V in the case of his marriage. Also, he can plead insanity brought on by stress as mitigation for Familicide, and should need no such mitigation for killing a dragon in the process of trying to kill his family.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 05:57 AM

it's been the general assumption it seems.

I realise that, I'd just appreciate it if people could keep in mind that it's an assumption rather than a fact.

Assumptions aren't worth much, anyway. It was an assumption that Vaarsuvius, being such an analytical individual, couldn't have any real romantic experience, and then the dirt farm arc came along.

Something only seems against character until it happens, then it just a new facet of the character. And "Distant/brutish/aggressive/insert quality here with everyone but with a special place in their heart for their spouse/children/puppy/guinea pig/insert morality pet here" is a very common character template.

Taekwondodo

2009-09-13, 06:11 AM

:smallfrown: Poor V. Actually that scene reminded me of the scene in Burn after Reading (not actually as good a film as thought would be :smallyuk:) which I just watched last night.

Bago!!!

2009-09-13, 06:14 AM

Perhaps, but I think its right to assume that V has not been keeping in close contact with his family.

Course, thats probably nothing behind the whole divorce. After all, its only 6 years in an elf's life and by elven logic, whats six years out of a thousand. And we've seen a scene where the children ask about when V will come back, and the spouse responds with a smile, when he's done obtaining ulimate arcane power or something along those lines.

Still Kyrie is hardly being a terrible spouse. Kyrie's potential reasons behind the divorce are more than reasonable in my view of the whole thing.

Trai

2009-09-13, 06:18 AM

*cries for Vaarsuvius*

I wanna hug him.

ScIaDrd

2009-09-13, 06:25 AM

Huh absolutely didn´t see that coming, Seriously all this, warlock insults and spellslinging for a freaking courtly summons?:smallconfused: Gotta admire the swiftness of the eleven judicial systems tough. Must say I´m somehow lookong forward to how tris turn out, i sure will be an iteresting insight into the minds of both V and K and the nature of their feeling and the woging of their relationship.. Man, sure I´m wierd preffering, psychological relationship drama between stick figures to the flashy action and wry jokes,
Ona that note love the first and fourth as well the last panel:smallbiggrin:.
Looking forward to more of this subplot.

Belkster11

2009-09-13, 06:28 AM

I understand where Kyrie's coming from. I mean, let's not forget that she's been through an even WORST ordeal. She's been attacked by a dragon, watched her children get their legs broken, plus, she was CRUCIFIED on a tree!

Then here comes V looking all evil and vampiric. He beats the dragon soundly. All smooth right? Well, he then reanimates the head, mocks it, then uses a dangerous spell that kills off 3/4 of the dragon's bloodline.

Oh, and V does this while laughing maniacally, not showing one glance at them. Have we forgotten what his first response was when she met Kyrie? "Are you and our children in any immediate peril...a yes or no will suffice." I mean, is THIS how you treat a loved one you haven't seen in six years that's badly hurt? If that were my wife, I'd react a bit differently like "Can you stand?" and use what healing powers I have on her and the children and tell them to run like hell. V did nothing like this.

Note that she DID give V a chance to explain why he did it. She also said: "...and we'll work through whatever comes next as a family." Who knows what would have happened instead if V just let go of the splice right then and there. Maybe Kyrie would have then been more than willing to help him look for Haley.

V just said: "I'm sorry." and left her.

Kyrie's frightened. Frightened of V, frightened for her children. In her eyes, V has become nothing more than a monster. Her old V is gone.

In my mind, V's getting his just rewards. I have empathy with him, but that doesn't mean V can just do whatever like give his mate and children PTSD and not expect retribution.

nli10

2009-09-13, 06:30 AM

Plot puns <3

Sewblon

2009-09-13, 06:41 AM

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 06:44 AM

Note that she DID give V a chance to explain why he did it.
I agree that Kyrie's been through a lot, but objectively, a chance to explain implies that you're actually willing to listen to the person's explanation. :smallfrown:

She also said: "...and we'll work through whatever comes next as a family." Who knows what would have happened instead if V just let go of the splice right then and there. Maybe Kyrie would have then been more than willing to help him look for Haley.
The problem is that there's only so much an apprentice baker can do to help defeat an Epic-level spell to find someone who, as far as V knew, was suffering horrible captivity in Xykon's domain. Aarindarius would have been another avenue, but he's unlikely to be much more powerful than V. Giving up the Splice would have been a definite gamble...

Trixie

2009-09-13, 06:56 AM

Heh heh, all those "It was a good deed!" guys sure changed their tune quickly :smallamused:

But again the OotS boards raise their collective ugly head and call justified action by Kyrie "evil". What? :smallconfused:

Anyway, three minor points:

1) Since when frogs can speak?
2) So, the provocation was a way to give Kyrie additional weapon in court?
3) How many levels this guy had to not notice 50+ damage?
4) So, 120 foot reach of LB just happened to have no one behind Turban Guy in so densely packed town? :smallconfused:

Kalbron

2009-09-13, 06:57 AM

Probably my main issue with what's happening with V at the moment is that nothing is going right for him, and the story is finding ways of sinking the boot in at least every second strip for the past 50 strips.

Everyone else besides Durkon in the Order has had something good happen to them, and Durkon never seems to have good or bad things happen at any rate.

- Roy got ressurected.
- Elan got reunited with Haley.
- Haley got to kill Crystal.
- Belkar got to have faux character development to improve his lot.
- The flying ditz got to go home.

V's just had continual swift kicks to the groin.

Bago!!!

2009-09-13, 06:58 AM

@Belkster11

Kyrie is a he. Not a she.

Staked to a tree, not crucified.

It was 100% of that dragon's blood line, 1/4 of the entire population of black dragons. Not 1/4 of the dragon's blood line.

V is not laughing while he goes about his businesses. That would imply he is insane.

Just a correction on facts. Everything else is plausible and I do agree that V is getting what was coming to him.

Neopolis

2009-09-13, 06:58 AM

I was so totally expecting explosive runes...

Hellbore

2009-09-13, 07:02 AM

@Belkster11

Kyrie is a he. Not a she.

...and your basing this on?

Kalbron

2009-09-13, 07:04 AM

...and your basing this on?

The fact that the gender ambiguity of elves in OotS isn't a long running ga-... oh. Woops. :smallbiggrin:

Darkroot

2009-09-13, 07:07 AM

I sense another trial scene. Please no more background exposition. About the guy who delivered the letter, surly better ways to approach a likely murderous wizard exist than deliberately enraging him/her.

Hey, some of us LIKE the exposition! :( But yeah, there probably would be, especially if the guy was not 100% sure V did not still have part of the splice left... Heck, even if he did there are easier ways to appeal to a massive ego like V's, e.g. Ask him if he is "the great wizard Vaarsuvius" and when V('s ego) answers in the affirmative hand him the scroll with a similar fanboyish comment.

PREDICTION: Kyrie assumes V only dropped the splice upon getting the summons and calls it "too little, too late".

Bago!!!

2009-09-13, 07:12 AM

Kyrie is wearing a shirt and pants, not a robe. He lacks the figure and...

Just... Just look at comic 629!

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 07:13 AM

Heh heh, all those "It was a good deed!" guys sure changed their tune quickly :smallamused:

But again the OotS boards raise their collective ugly head and call justified action by Kyrie "evil". What? :smallconfused:

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :smallconfused: Could you clear it up? What "was a good deed"?
And what about Kyrie's action is supposed to have been called "evil" by the "collective ugly head" of "the OotS boards"??? What action are you talking about, anyway?

1) Since when frogs can speak?
The frog is Turban-guy's familiar.

Belkster11

2009-09-13, 07:17 AM

Kyrie is wearing a shirt and pants, not a robe. He lacks the figure and...

Just... Just look at comic 629!

Ah, thanks for reminding me. I kinda forgot all the details. :)

You're right, V wasn't really laughing like "BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!" when he's doing the Famlicide Spell, but he does have a look of pure glee.

EDIT: It's Strip #639 btw. ;)

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 07:19 AM

@Belkster11

Kyrie is a he. Not a she.

Kyrie is an ambiguously gendered elf, unless you can track down the appropriate pronoun somewhere in the comic. The entire gimmick is that we not only don't know V's gender, we can't even tell whether V is straight or homosexual, given that their children are adopted.

And V may not have laughed, but V certainly had a malicious smile.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 07:20 AM

Kyrie is wearing a shirt and pants, not a robe. He lacks the figure and...

Just... Just look at comic 629!

Body-shape doesn't mean anything with elves. :smallamused: I mean, just look at all the elves we've seen in the comic and in SoD.

For my part, I really have no idea either way, but I prefer to call Kyrie "she" because her dialogue reads in a feminine way to me and using "he" just feels weird.

Torquinette

2009-09-13, 07:21 AM

There's someone elf.

Okay, really bad pun. But maybe there's a third party whispering/otherwise planting other stuff in Kyrie's mind. But that'd be real low.

I thought that the provocation was supposed to justify the grounds that V has anger problems or something, for the suing.

I like how this subplot just suddenly entered our lives. Way to spice Sandsedge! Also, highly gratituous for the upload speed, it's like an OotS rush.

Belkster11

2009-09-13, 07:23 AM

otakuryoga

2009-09-13, 07:30 AM

didnt see that coming.....poor :vaarsuvius:

The United States are not the whole real world.

Turban wizard has served his purpose now, so he'll most likely won't show up anymore. I thought he would play a bigger role, since he had an unusual body type.

no the US is not the entire real world......but most readers of this comic are from the us...the author is from us....so when someone talks about similarity between oots and something "real world"------yes, they are most likely to mean US

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 07:30 AM

That's my thought exactly. Kyrie's words seem like something a wife would say to a husband that was gone for six years.

Either that or Kyrie's a male elf who has a female personailty. XD

I think it's a deliberate switch of the usual stereotypes.

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 07:35 AM

I think it's a deliberate switch of the usual stereotypes.

If I were to start thinking of Kyrie as a male then I would be forced to consider the idea that V married a man who wears a ponytail. I cannot do so and maintain my respect for V, so I choose female.

EDIT: If the Giant's avatar at all reflects the way he really wears his hair, then let me just say in all sincerity: please don't ban me.

V'icternus

2009-09-13, 07:42 AM

...V has a ponytail now too. Ponytail now officially has nothing to do with anything.

Kaytara

2009-09-13, 07:46 AM

If I were to start thinking of Kyrie as a male then I would be forced to consider the idea that V married a man who wears a ponytail. I cannot do so and maintain my respect for V, so I choose female.

EDIT: If the Giant's avatar at all reflects the way he really wears his hair, then let me just say in all sincerity: please don't ban me.

Hey! Ponytails on men are awesome! :smallmad:

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 07:52 AM

Hey! Ponytails on men are awesome! :smallmad:

Uggghh. No.

But regardless, I forgot that V has a ponytail, too, now.

Just...ugh, regardless.

Zordrath

2009-09-13, 07:55 AM

Body-shape doesn't mean anything with elves. :smallamused: I mean, just look at all the elves we've seen in the comic and in SoD.

For my part, I really have no idea either way, but I prefer to call Kyrie "she" because her dialogue reads in a feminine way to me and using "he" just feels weird.
Lirian must be some sort of mutant, then :smalltongue: Though I agree, the dialogue between V and Kyrie made it seem to me that V is male and K is female, but Kyrie's bodyshape is so obviously male... (as opposed to V, who could be hiding either shape beneath that robe)

Hey! Ponytails on men are awesome! :smallmad:
No. No they're not. Though I wouldn't exactly call them a reason to lose all respect for someone who marries a man with a ponytail, either :smalltongue:

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 07:55 AM

Hey! Ponytails on men are awesome! :smallmad:

I concur!

Not to mention I have shorter hair than a lot of the boys at my school, so you can't say long hair on males is unusual. :smalltongue:

Aris Katsaris

2009-09-13, 08:05 AM

I just noticed something.

In other instances (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) where Teleport has been cast, it's happened so that "Tele--" is the first part of the spell, and then the caster teleports, with "--port!" coming as they arrive.

This wizard cast the full "Teleport!" without teleporting halfway though.

Harumph. You speak about "other instances", when in fact you only provide a single instance, and you don't even bother to look up other cases where the reverse is true.

That's just shoddy research on your part. See for example #340 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html) and #369 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html) - not to mention #635 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html), #642 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html) and #643 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0643.html).

tcrudisi

2009-09-13, 08:08 AM

This comic was confusing to me at first since I mis-understood the meaning of served. I thought the annoying Wizard had done an awesome dance move and served V that way. I was really struggling to figure out where the comic was going and it just didn't make any sense.

tcrudisi

2009-09-13, 08:11 AM

Oh, crud. I really hope this isn't a plot mechanic to get Celia back into the party later.

Blaznak

2009-09-13, 08:12 AM

A SERVICE OF PROCESS JOKE? Are you KIDDING me? LOL! Heee heee hee heeeeh eheheeeheheeeeee.....

Hardcore

2009-09-13, 08:24 AM

In any case Rich need to explain, in the forthcoming book, what happened here to us non-US readers.
I think I got it, but I expect others could be more confused.

PonceAlyosha

2009-09-13, 08:38 AM

Oh, crud. I really hope this isn't a plot mechanic to get Celia back into the party later.

V won't call Celia. V won't bring a lawyer, and most likely won't tell anyone it happened. Except while crying on Haley's shoulder. Poor elf. :smallfrown:

Shale

2009-09-13, 08:43 AM

Of course! Who else but a lawyer could be that much of a jerk while exploiting the rules of the establishment to his full advantage?

Turkish Delight

2009-09-13, 08:44 AM

I don't think there will be any trial sequence involved here. When V zapped Kubota to prevent another tiresome trial sequence, the Giant was pretty plainly speaking through him. Once is enough.

Whatever happens, it will be short and sweet/bitter. And not involve those two lawyers and Celia. I desperately hope.

Trobby

2009-09-13, 08:48 AM

Um...wow. :smalleek:

And here we all were thinking that this guy was working for the Linear Guild, or even Tyranitar.

I never even thought that he might be working for V's mate, and that they'd actually be dealing with the divorce papers in-comic...

Seeing the way V reacted to this though...I think I know what decision he's going to make.

I haven't seen anybody else suggest it yet, but I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. At the very least, because he KNOWS it's the right thing to do. Or at least, in this case, the most right thing that he CAN do.

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 08:50 AM

Seeing the way V reacted to this though...I think I know what decision he's going to make.

...so, what do you think is going to happen? :smallconfused:

There's no way that V is going to completely ignore the summons, since it would then be completely pontless for us to see V get them.

Jagos

2009-09-13, 08:58 AM

And in five pages it's not possible that this happened...

V just got served.

That is all.

jafar

2009-09-13, 08:59 AM

Also to defend V's spouse, that wasn't a simple 'one event' that was V showing up looking completely evil and then proceeding to do some rather horrible things and then proceed to completely ignore the spouse and any offer to reconcile and fix the problem.

I agree with the defense of V-Spouse. What exactly has V done to reassure V-Spouse that V is not a psychopath? Is V back there "fighting for my love"? (Comic #385) Has V sent messages, apologies, chinchillas, explanations back home? V is ready to fight everything else including the legal guy for the sake of the Universe or whatever. But I think V has already given up on the relationship. As readers, we certainly understand V's decisions, but how can V-Spouse?

I think the legal guy purposefully baited V to prove that V was still an angry egomaniac. V's reaction was violently over the top. So much for the intelligence score (proving once again that intelligence and wisdom are two very separate categories -thanks Gary!). Maybe V's spouse told Turban to provoke V because s(he) was sure that V would flip out. What a ridiculous overreaction! This is a sign of a person who really has a massive insecurity complex. Would you like to be married to THAT? :smalleek:

Belkster11

2009-09-13, 09:04 AM

I agree with the defense of V-Spouse. What exactly has V done to reassure V-Spouse that V is not a psychopath? Is V back there "fighting for my love"? (Comic #385) Has V sent messages, apologies, chinchillas, explanations back home? V is ready to fight everything else including the legal guy for the sake of the Universe or whatever. But I think V has already given up on the relationship. As readers, we certainly understand V's decisions, but how can V-Spouse?

I think the legal guy purposefully baited V to prove that V was still an angry egomaniac. V's reaction was violently over the top. So much for the intelligence score (proving once again that intelligence and wisdom are two very separate categories -thanks Gary!). Maybe V's spouse told Turban to provoke V because s(he) was sure that V would flip out. What a ridiculous overreaction! This is a sign of a person who really has a massive insecurity complex. Would you like to be married to THAT? :smalleek:

Yeah. V could've ignored him...

but Kyrie looks more and more like a control freak. I mean, what spouse would deliberatly hire someone to piss off the other?

mistformsquirrl

2009-09-13, 09:08 AM

Possible theory about the reason for provocation:

Perhaps he's not /just/ a lawyer-wizard. Perhaps he's also a bit of a private eye type, and Kyrie hired him with two express purposes in mind?

That is - 1) Test V (If V could handle being pestered, maybe there was a chance at reconciliation yet) - If the test is failed 2) Deliver the document

Of course that's purely theory. He could just be an ass. >.>

TooManySecrets

2009-09-13, 09:14 AM

Ugh, are we still discussing V's gender? It's like whether Deckard is a replicant or not. In one version of the film he is and in the other he isn't. Likewise, V used to have a gender but now schle doesn't.

Schrödingender.

Also, I was expecting "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning".

EDIT: Though we all know that the Pyro is, of course, female.

Expeditious

2009-09-13, 09:20 AM

*sniff* Poor V. . Can't say I wasn't expecting this to happen at some point, just not now and certainly not this way. The whole multiverse seems to be against our dear Vaarsuvius. Angst ohoy!

I'm afraid that this fight for his love V is doomed to lose.

Great joke with the instant summons. :smallsmile:

Volkov

2009-09-13, 09:27 AM

I knew it, Vaarsuvius is a bad parent!

Saeyan

2009-09-13, 09:32 AM

I knew it, Vaarsuvius is a bad parent!

Eh, technically we haven't really seen much regarding V's parenting abilities. I like to think of the macaroni pictures as evidence of the children having some happy memories of/with V, at least.

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 09:32 AM

I knew it, Vaarsuvius is a bad parent!

You're 36 comics behind the rest of us.

Actually, V is possibly a very good parent, just not a very good spouse.

Mauve Shirt

2009-09-13, 09:33 AM

Aw. Well, I can't say I blame Kyrie too much. But what an odd way to do it! I guess she didn't want to involve those two idiot lawyers.

Tribute

2009-09-13, 09:34 AM

V is a female, i am certain!

(no i'm not gonna give you a list of facts why i think that, i just know it)

no hush :smallfurious:

Zanaril

2009-09-13, 09:39 AM

V is a female, i am certain!

(no i'm not gonna give you a list of facts why i think that, i just know it)

no hush :smallfurious:

Why bother saying you think that if you're not going to tell us why? It's pointless.

Tim

2009-09-13, 09:43 AM

Exquisite portrayal of a divorce lawyer...

Nimrod's Son

2009-09-13, 09:48 AM

Eh, technically we haven't really seen much regarding V's parenting abilities.
Panel four (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html) doesn't bode well.

Trixie

2009-09-13, 09:51 AM

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. :smallconfused: Could you clear it up? What "was a good deed"?

Random casting of deadly magic, of course.

And executing prisoners.

And killing Shojo. And Familicide. And...

Shall I go on?

And what about Kyrie's action is supposed to have been called "evil" by the "collective ugly head" of "the OotS boards"??? What action are you talking about, anyway?

Why, asking for divorce. It is heinously evil act, isn't it? :smallconfused:

What I'm referring to is the fact that since Kubota's (or even Shojo's, if you went that far) death there will be a group of people who will attempt to whitewash any crime, no matter how evil, while calling justified actions "heinously evil stuff". Sometimes warped morals people can have really scare me - and this is a group I was referring to just before.

The frog is Turban-guy's familiar.

Only Raven familiars can speak.

squidbreath

2009-09-13, 10:00 AM

Och..Poor V =S

Cire II

2009-09-13, 10:02 AM

Only Raven familiars can speak.

Rules have been bent before.

Malkar Grumbo

2009-09-13, 10:03 AM

I've said it before, and I will say it again, V's purpose in life, much like the Trix Rabbit, is to suffer.

Shale

2009-09-13, 10:03 AM

V is a female, i am certain!

(no i'm not gonna give you a list of facts why i think that, i just know it)

no hush :smallfurious:

Unless one of your reasons is a secret message encoded in Rich's statement that he has not given and will not give any clues toward V's gender, I think you're wrong.

Taekwondodo

2009-09-13, 10:06 AM

Except while crying on Haley's shoulder. Poor elf. :smallfrown:

I smell a crack pairing! (I've been hanging around that thread too much)

Draquenoire

2009-09-13, 10:14 AM

Ouch, all he did to save his family and now this. I bet that cold knife in his back doesn't feel good.

banjo1985

2009-09-13, 10:14 AM

Ah, so V's beau finally comes to their senses and files for divorce...I can't say I blame him/her. :smallbiggrin:

spargel

2009-09-13, 10:23 AM

Meh, V's better off without Kyrie anyways.

Tubal-Cain

2009-09-13, 10:24 AM

See, that's where actually being an evil archmage would help him! Soul Trap the only two lawyers in the world and you'll never end up in a proper court!

I have never played DnD, but it seems logical that Soul Trap would only affect beings that have souls.

Sijo

2009-09-13, 10:27 AM

So... the WHOLE incident was just a way to get V to accept the (court) summons and say his name aloud? OK, I admit it, that was clever. Although rather stupid on the part of the other wizard, I don't think he was expecting to get floored so thoroughly. He should've asked what level his "mark" was first. :smalltongue:

Of course, if V had bothered to LOOK at the "scroll" before agreeing (you know, to make sure there WERE any spells in it) he might not have been caught.

I'm still annoyed by Blackwing's newfound loquaciousness. At least say something funny!

I did like the "Drawmij's Instant Summons" bit however.

Also, I like that V's mate and family have not been forgotten.

Say, has V really discussed his recent problems with the others? (The infernal deal, the attack on his family, the Familicide) I'm under the impression that he hasn't, but sometimes they sound like they know. This IS important, since it would set up some shocking revelations later.

Here's hoping V, whatever his gender, gets to solve his family problems and reunite happily with his family.

Sebastian

2009-09-13, 10:45 AM

What on earth do you base that on? :smallconfused:

There's a wee bit of a difference between "Hey I haven't seen you in years, and now you're here all Glowy and Evil. What's up with that?" and "drop everything you are doing and wait on me hand and foot" you know.

"Also, our children are wounded and in state of shock after an attack that essentially you provoked, could you help me with that? Oh, you have something more important to do, I see. Well, maybe it is not right for you to have a family to weight you down"

Really, from Kirie's pont of view he/she could try to make him a favor.

Toper

2009-09-13, 11:02 AM

That is a horrible, horrible pun. I love it.

Tubal-Cain

2009-09-13, 11:16 AM

Although rather stupid on the part of the other wizard, I don't think he was expecting to get floored so thoroughly. He should've asked what level his "mark" was first.

The guy's goal wasn't to fight V, but serve him.
The quicker and more throughly he was defeated, the more likely V was to stop and boast.

Ichneumon

2009-09-13, 11:31 AM

Rules have been bent before.

True, but we have no reason to believe it is a frog or his familiar. It could very well be his legal partner or something like that.

Wormwood74

2009-09-13, 11:38 AM

You know, if diddling your secretary is grounds for a divorce, being soulless monstrosity which commits genocide with a word is also also sufficient basis.

On another note, as far as V's mate know, V is either a monster and his soul is gone, or the other option is he's just plain gone to the dark side. He's also capable of committing genocide in an instant.

So, what kind of idiot would deliberately antagonize someone who can say 7 words and go about his day:

Time Stop
Maximized Disintigrate
Gust Of Wind

Based on V's mate's knowledge of the situation, the process server would expect V to be:

Irredemably Evil
Immensely powerful
Quick to anger
Vindictive

Not sure his plan for serving V was a sound one, or logical. Why not offer to sell him a scroll at a ridiculously low price while they're waiting in line instead? Much less chance of sudden death.

Miklus

2009-09-13, 11:39 AM

Therefore, my theory is that the turban guy knew it was V, and also knew that the soul-splice had ended. It may be possible that the divorce should only take effect if V is either still soul-spliced or if he is still aggressive. Then, turban guy sees V in red robes, and must provoke him to find out whether the terms apply.

Maybe "Turban Guy" was helping Kyrie gather evidence for the devorce? The D&D equvalent of taking compromising photos. Turban Guy could say "Yes, high judge, V attacked me as I was delivering the summon! V is evil!". Then Kyrie can get custody and the house and everything.

Bago!!!

2009-09-13, 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bago!!!
Kyrie is wearing a shirt and pants, not a robe. He lacks the figure and...

Just... Just look at comic 629!

Ah, thanks for reminding me. I kinda forgot all the details. :)

You're right, V wasn't really laughing like "BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!" when he's doing the Famlicide Spell, but he does have a look of pure glee.

EDIT: It's Strip #639 btw. ;)
Now, I meant Strip 629. For the question that was given afterward given to the spouse's gender.

Kyrie is an ambiguously gendered elf, unless you can track down the appropriate pronoun somewhere in the comic. The entire gimmick is that we not only don't know V's gender, we can't even tell whether V is straight or homosexual, given that their children are adopted.

And V may not have laughed, but V certainly had a malicious smile.
Ambiguously gendered elf? I can admit that is V being an ambrigously gendered elf, but his spouse seems male to me. Certainly doesn't look female. :smallconfused:

As for V with his malicous smile, I didn't read it as that, more of a victorouis one. But it could have been seen as a malicous smile. No doubt.

Body-shape doesn't mean anything with elves. I mean, just look at all the elves we've seen in the comic and in SoD.

For my part, I really have no idea either way, but I prefer to call Kyrie "she" because her dialogue reads in a feminine way to me and using "he" just feels weird. Wait, so your saying that all elves have the exact same gender? :smalleek:

Well, just because I sound stupid doesn't make me so. Just makes me socially awkward.:smallredface:

If I were to start thinking of Kyrie as a male then I would be forced to consider the idea that V married a man who wears a ponytail. I cannot do so and maintain my respect for V, so I choose female.

EDIT: If the Giant's avatar at all reflects the way he really wears his hair, then let me just say in all sincerity: please don't ban me.
Well thats your choice. I know lots of people who sport pony tails, most of them men.

Lirian must be some sort of mutant, then Though I agree, the dialogue between V and Kyrie made it seem to me that V is male and K is female, but Kyrie's bodyshape is so obviously male... (as opposed to V, who could be hiding either shape beneath that robe)

No. No they're not. Though I wouldn't exactly call them a reason to lose all respect for someone who marries a man with a ponytail, either

Thank you on the top.

I think some people can pull the pony tail look, but not everyone can. Myself, LORD NO! Some of my friends, yes they can. Course, we're not the norm of society. :smallbiggrin:

Sijo

2009-09-13, 11:40 AM

The guy's goal wasn't to fight V, but serve him.
The quicker and more throughly he was defeated, the more likely V was to stop and boast.
Which would've been kind of hard to do if he'd, you know, gotten killed... :smallwink:

Onyavar

2009-09-13, 11:42 AM

Firstly, I think that K has good reasons to divorce from V. That's ok, I don't believe that the two of them really matched or just became estranged. And I believe, V will accept that.

Possible theory about the reason for provocation:

Perhaps he's not /just/ a lawyer-wizard. Perhaps he's also a bit of a private eye type, and Kyrie hired him with two express purposes in mind?

That is - 1) Test V (If V could handle being pestered, maybe there was a chance at reconciliation yet) - If the test is failed 2) Deliver the document
>.>
At this moment, that's the only logical reason for insulting V! But since this theory is not confirmed yet...

But I can't understand WHY the lawyer-wizard had to insult V to deliver his summons. He searched V, found him in the shop and started insulting her. Why? WHYYY?
To prove her identity, he could just ask him, if she is V and hand him the summons. If she is unwilling to take it, the turban guy could just leave the summons on the ground, or take it back to his office. It's V's problem.

If you are identified as recipient and reject documents, it's proven that you (could have) received them, so they can be considered delivered. At least in most European states.

I just read the Wikipedia article about "Service of process". So I have quite a few questions: Is there really such a strange legal system in the US that it is possible to outsmart the Service of process by not taking documents after the server identified you as recipient? And what can the process server do in case of such a refusal?

In any case Rich need to explain, in the forthcoming book, what happened here to us non-US readers.
I think I got it, but I expect others could be more confused.
Seconded. I got the joke now, but it was hard work to find out.

Elfin

2009-09-13, 11:44 AM

A weekend update...?:smallconfused:

Poor V...

Starbuck_II

2009-09-13, 11:49 AM

I just read the Wikipedia article about "Service of process". So I have quite a few questions: Is there really such a strange legal system in the US that it is possible to outsmart the Service of process by not taking documents after the server identified you as recipient? And what can the process server do in case of such a refusal?

If you don't attempt to hand them to the recipient as best as you can: that grounds for a mistrial (no wants to do the trial all over again).

Gift Jeraff

2009-09-13, 11:51 AM

Damn. For all V's efforts to avoid those two idiot lawyers again...
My first thoughts, too. :smallbiggrin:

I bet Elan would have befriended them if V didn't bother bypassing the second trial scene, thus they would have aided V now.

Richard J.

2009-09-13, 11:52 AM

Ooh, poor V. Next time think a little harder before jumping off the slipperly slope right into the deep end of the alignment pool.

And could this mean the return of those two lawyers? :smallbiggrin:

Porthos

2009-09-13, 11:53 AM

I just noticed something.

In other instances (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) where Teleport has been cast, it's happened so that "Tele--" is the first part of the spell, and then the caster teleports, with "--port!" coming as they arrive.

This wizard cast the full "Teleport!" without teleporting halfway though.

I'm afraid you've got it backwards. :smallsmile:

Strip #571 is the only time we have seen the Tele- -port joke. Each and every other time the comic has used Teleport (at least a half dozen times if you include Start of Darkness), it's been said as a full word.

It's just that the joke in #571 was so memorable that some people think it was used that way a lot.

saral

2009-09-13, 12:02 PM

Ooh, poor V. Next time think a little harder before jumping off the slipperly slope right into the deep end of the alignment pool.

And could this mean the return of those two lawyers? :smallbiggrin:

On the other hand the could push him back on the slope he just got off. I've tried Neutral, and I've tried doing what is good, the only times I was effective was when I was evil.

Lunaya

2009-09-13, 12:10 PM

:smalleek:

Anyone else feel an involuntary shudder for what those kids are in for?

One Skunk Todd

2009-09-13, 12:12 PM

Onyavar

2009-09-13, 12:19 PM

If you don't attempt to hand them to the recipient as best as you can: that grounds for a mistrial (no wants to do the trial all over again).

Ok, now I got it: In the USA, process servers always try to trick the recipients into taking the summons, even if the recipients might not refuse it? And if first attempt fails, they have to try it again, by maliciously deceiving the recipients? Until they, unaware, take the summons?

That's weird. Just... weird.

Why don't you use signatures?

Porthos

2009-09-13, 12:25 PM

Ok, now I got it: In the USA, process servers always try to trick the recipients into taking the summons

No, they don't. :smallsmile: I wouldn't use Internet Chatter and/or Popular Fiction as a guide as to how things always work in another country if I were you.

Especially in a country as complex and diverse as the US. :smallwink:

saral

2009-09-13, 12:38 PM

In the silver lining department hopefully this moves V's family out of the line of fire for any future attacks, whether from black dragons or other sources. V will be sad but it should be harder to use the family against him.

Of course since V still likes his family and can't protect them, it could be even easier to use them against him. If V had divorced their spouse and given full custody, it would have been different (More or less I don;t care what happens to you) but since the divorce comes from V's spouse rather than V it's a different message. I'm available for hits and I'm without V's protection.

Trixie

2009-09-13, 12:43 PM

So, what kind of idiot would deliberately antagonize someone who can say 7 words and go about his day:

Time Stop
Maximized Disintigrate
Gust Of Wind

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e100/Dhavaer/morbo.jpg
Time Stop doesn't work that way! :smalltongue:

Pandora

2009-09-13, 12:55 PM

I have to say, even though it has already been said, That was truly an unexpected twist. :/

Onyavar

2009-09-13, 01:07 PM

No, they don't. :smallsmile: I wouldn't use Internet Chatter and/or Popular Fiction as a guide as to how things always work in another country if I were you.

Especially in a country as complex and diverse as the US. :smallwink:

I know about generalization and Internet Fiction. Now that I got someones attention - would you please explain this to me (and other non-US-natives) or at least link a good explanation? The mentioned wikipedia article about "Service of process" didn't really satisfy my curiosity.

Trobby

2009-09-13, 01:16 PM

...so, what do you think is going to happen? :smallconfused:

There's no way that V is going to completely ignore the summons, since it would then be completely pontless for us to see V get them.

Well, I haven't seen it suggested yet by anyone (though I might've missed it), but I think I'm going to keep that theory to myself. I have a feeling it's pretty close to what might actually happen. Though if not, I won't be terribly upset.

I'll just say that I don't think that V is going to let there be another long, drawn-out trial.

Roderick_BR

2009-09-13, 01:19 PM

What an odd way to go about delivering legal documents.
Reminds me of that shapeshifting guy from that old She-Hulk comics.

Cleverdan22

2009-09-13, 01:26 PM

Ouch. All I have to say.

Ridureyu

2009-09-13, 01:32 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I feel sorry for V, but I found it hilarious. This kind of reminds me of the time that my dad was worried that he was going to be sued, so for a few weeks he had me run all the errands, "Check to see if he's being followed," claim he was on vacation, and random spy crap. At one point he put on a false beard.

He wasn't going to be sued. It was a false alarm. And if he WERE sued, he would've been all right. Long story, not gonna go into it, he wasn't in the legal wrong.

Porthos

2009-09-13, 01:35 PM

Ridureyu

2009-09-13, 01:36 PM

As far as I know, as long as you confirm their name, hand them the papers, and tell them that they are served, they are served. The usual way is to come to the door and do this, but if somebody knows it's coming and is being evasive, you get to stalk them and do really, really silly things.

There are several specific situations in life in which you can demonstrate genuinely creepy-stalker behavior and get away with it. Those are:

1. In a Romantic Comedy Movie

2. When looking for a parking space at my college

3. When Serving someone.

pendell

2009-09-13, 01:52 PM

Vaarsuvius shouldn't feel bad, his spouse seems to be a fickle bitch if she's going to divorce him for one event. Yeah, he showed an unabashed evil and great, unchained power, but within the DnD-universe you should probably expect that sort of thing.

That 'one event' involved a literal deal with the devil, and the mass murderhomicide dragoncide of dozens, if not hundreds, of intelligent beings who had never even heard V's name.

I dunno about the rest of you, but in my real-life marriage that would indeed be a marriage killer. I have been bluntly warned that if Susan catches me consorting with evil powers, divorce will follow forthwith, even in a one time action.

Okay... she says 'probably. Separation, anyway, until you get it together'.

What she doesn't know won't hurt her

:frown:

I dunno about the rest of you ... I suppose it's funny, but I never really saw divorce in a fantasy world before. It kind of hits close to home.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Ridureyu

2009-09-13, 01:54 PM

Don't get drawn into a long-drawn-out argument about whether or not "Kyrie's divorce is morally justified." There is a massive debate over every action made by a character in this comic. You know it's a trap.

Mugen Nightgale

2009-09-13, 02:04 PM

See you in court.

TheJayPhoenix

2009-09-13, 02:07 PM

OK, I smile very often when reading OotS, I even have occassionally chuckled but I have never laughed out loud before this (sorry - I am British - my lip just isn't designed for it!) but 'instant summons' part did it! :smallbiggrin:

I was expecting the scroll to be a trap - I actually thought that it would bring V back to the powers that be, so was pleasantly surprised by the outcome.

... not that V getting sued for divorce is pleasant, of course, but you get my drift!

HandofShadows

2009-09-13, 02:11 PM

Ouch. Another kick to V (How many more can V take before going around the bend?). Seems to be taking it rather well considering it all. I suspect V has half expecting it. Of course it just might be V has hit the state of being totaly numb.

Ridureyu

2009-09-13, 02:15 PM

See you in court.

Oh no!!!! AM I BEING SUED OVER THE INTERNETS?

Well, then. I shall mega-sue you in return! For, um... ninjaing.

Eran of Arcadia

2009-09-13, 02:24 PM

So, my wife just told me it would be a "game time decision" whether she would divorce me if I were in V's place and she in Kyrie's.

Sequinox

2009-09-13, 02:34 PM

:smallfrown:

Ridureyu

2009-09-13, 02:37 PM

If this results in a real-life divorce...

TAG

2009-09-13, 02:39 PM

Hmmm. I can't help but think that the fact that the elves are helping the Sapphire Guard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) and that the Sapphire Guard is no longer under oath to keep the gates secret (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html) might come up again during the divorce. The Guard is more than likely to at least mention the involvement of the OotS, and I imagine the elves would be more than a little interested in the details about one of their own. Particularly, as V was on the boats with the Guard, the fact that he had not tranced for quite a while prior to accepting the fiend's deal (and then his behavior afterward, which, even if he was technically in full control of, may have been just as badly warped by lack of trancing as his prior attitude) may have some bearing on how they view his acceptance of that deal, and news of the things he did after defeating the dragon (move fleet to new home, rescue O'chul, attempt to defeat and successfully delay Xycon) might help to explain his what he meant when he said he "still needs to fix everything".

Acero

2009-09-13, 02:41 PM

didn't like it. no one wants another court scene:smallsigh:

Ceric

2009-09-13, 02:47 PM

I think Kyrie's reasoning for divorce is understandable. When a strange, likely evil, and obviously dangerous spellcaster saved her and the kids from the dragon, she was still worried rather than immediately grateful ("Parent, are we saved?" "I'm...not sure") and when she found out that it was V, she was horrified ("Great elven gods have mercy, what happened to you--?").

As well-known as soul-selling is, it's probably equally known that infernal deals are still deals and would have required agreement from V in the first place, so he can't explain his actions by claiming that he was mind-controlled the entire time. And by the time he explains it in court, someone else might point out that soul-splices don't affect alignment or free will*. So all that taunting the dragon, brutally killing it with Shapeshift (in front of the kids! :smalleek:), and then raising it again to murder the rest of its family was all V's doing. Yup.

I feel that Kyrie and V actually haven't had a good relationship ever since after their wedding and adopting the kids. She acts cheery around the kids and assures them that V will be home "one of these years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0629.html)" (which seems like they haven't been having much communication) but secretly, not wanting to admit it, she knows that "This is what you have always really wanted. More than you ever wanted me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0642.html)" From her point of view, then, this divorce is not very sudden. The incident with V and the dragon just cemented it.

Kyrie should've first talked to V and tried to work something out. But at least her POV is understandable.

Particularly, as V was on the boats with the Guard, the fact that he had not tranced for quite a while prior to accepting the fiend's deal (and then his behavior afterward, which, even if he was technically in full control of, may have been just as badly warped by lack of trancing as his prior attitude) may have some bearing on how they view his acceptance of that deal,

I don't know... the soul-splice was supposed to have some rejuvenating effects*, which may or may not include making up for lack of sleep/trace.

*I don't know how common this knowledge would be, but they ought to have learned people at an elvish court, right?

Also, hey, that turban guy might not even be a wizard! He never casts any spells; all he does is waits near the rest of the wizards, claims he casts really good spells, and insults V. He's got a toad, and he appears to cast Teleport, but maybe the toad is a Polymorphed wizard (I assume in this universe Polymorphed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0177.html) wizards (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html) can cast spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0180.html)).

Lastly, I'm worried about the title. I'm hoping against a long court scene, and "First Step" doesn't sound good.

The_Weirdo

2009-09-13, 02:53 PM

So, my wife just told me it would be a "game time decision" whether she would divorce me if I were in V's place and she in Kyrie's.

Did she also tell you what this means? :p

Sorry, I'm a translator, but I'm not a native speaker.

Ikialev

2009-09-13, 03:04 PM

Wait, what just happened? Who is this guy, anyway?

doliest

2009-09-13, 03:04 PM

I can't believe I missed this joke;

"Hey V-Man, what does no man want to have yet no man want's to lose?"

Joerg

2009-09-13, 03:18 PM

So, for a bit of speculation ...

I'd like to see the Order helping V with that problem. They could make a detour as a sidequest. I'm not sure how preventing a divorce could be turned into an interesting adventure for the group; after all, where are the villains? But perhaps Rich can do it :smallwink:

Hmm, maybe the IFCC (through the Linear Guild) are influencing Kyrie. After all, Kyrie doesn't know the Linear Guild. They could have visited and told some stories about V which fit to what K saw of V, but paint him even blacker.

The purpose? More conflict. Delaying the order until Xykon has found the phylactery. And perhaps increasing the hold of the IFCC over Vaarsuvius.

TAG

2009-09-13, 03:21 PM

I don't know... the soul-splice was supposed to have some rejuvenating effects*, which may or may not include making up for lack of sleep/trace.

*I don't know how common this knowledge would be, but they ought to have learned people at an elvish court, right?

Yeah we don't know either. He just mentions that a rejuvenating effect will replenish all the spell slots, but we know V hasn't had to necessarily trance to refresh those before. Or it may be just be limited to physical rejuvenation or what-have-you. Given that this is such a rare deal though, the elvish courts may be the one place where someone really learned in the topic hangs out who would know the exact specifics.

Regardless, V did accept the terms under high stress and no trancing, and then indeed left his family behind to try and accomplish more things (rather than just wanting to hang onto the power). After all, saving his family from the dragon is kind of a moot point if Xykon releases the Snarl (from what we and V thought of the Snarl at the time). Even if V's more "debatably evil" actions were more placebo effect than the influence of the other souls, he did manage to accomplish a lot of good things that immediately relinquishing the power at his mate's request would have prevented him from doing.

Nevajas

2009-09-13, 03:29 PM

On a completely different note, I like the "Drawmij" insert. I got to meet Jim Ward a few days ago. He's a good game writer and deserves more credit.

V, on the other hand, kinda deserves this.

David Argall

2009-09-13, 03:58 PM

I know about generalization and Internet Fiction. Now that I got someones attention - would you please explain this to me (and other non-US-natives) or at least link a good explanation? The mentioned wikipedia article about "Service of process" didn't really satisfy my curiosity.
In any trial, there is a general consensus that all parties need to be notified and be under the jurisdiction of the court. A summons is a way to satisfy those needs. It shows you when, where, and about what that there is going to be a trial and is normally only valid in the court's jurisdiction. So you are given the summons and the trial can go forward and it is now up to you to prove why you are not guilty, and your absence from the courtroom will be deemed to be your admission of guilt.
Now since the trial can not properly go forward unless you are notified, there are frequent cases where people have a desire to avoid notification.
And attempts to avoid notification and/or establish notification can get pretty elaborate. [One big corporate honcho tried to avoid a New York case by staying out of New York. He got served while flying over the state.] However the law generally favors the server. [One fellow was ruled successfully served when the server threw the summons at the fleeing fellow.]

In our current case, I would think that V would have been very easy to serve. Talking about himself may not be V's prime sin, but it is not one she is free of. So it should have been quite easy to get V to identify himself. But apparently somebody thought she was going to try to avoid the summons.

Hey! Ponytails on men are awesome!

I concur!
Hey! Wait... Are you girls saying that if I had skipped a few haircuts in my younger days, I could have... and you [or your mothers maybe] would have...?

... No... Don't answer that.
My tears might ruin my keyboard.

There's no way that V is going to completely ignore the summons, since it would then be completely pontless for us to see V get them.
V was also "pointlessly" shown ignoring K and family before when she went off to rescue the party and kill Xykon. So we may well see V once again put saving the world first.
But this would be a possible way to divert the party from the gate to Lord Tyrinar. So maybe K filed the divorce in human territory [since elven courts are obviously slow] and now V persuades the party to make a detour just as they did to rescue Roy's sister.

You know, if diddling your secretary is grounds for a divorce, being soulless monstrosity which commits genocide with a word is also also sufficient basis.

Not at all. You should always allow your spouse his or her little hobby, whether it is collecting string, or knitting with the neighbors' intestines, as long as it doesn't bother you or the children. But looking at somebody else with lust is a threat to you, and thus far more serious.

I doubt K really cares about V going all evil and such. It is definitely a strike against her, but she can live with that. The problem is that he won't give it up for him. Indeed, she won't even delay long enough to help her get medical attention for the kids. He just is not showing enough interest in her.
So he wants a partner that will pay attention where it is needed, and thus divorces her.

Now V should probably not contest the divorce. The kids are almost certainly better off with "mom" and she has a world to save. Still...

Panel four doesn't bode well.
Actually it does, when we look at 5 of 642. V notices that her behavior upsets the children and he instantly clams down. That is far more self control than she shows at other times.

Tallahassee

2009-09-13, 03:59 PM

Heh, and I thought the yellow paper was going to say "I prepared explosive runes this morning", with V getting a taste of his/her own favorite trick. :smallwink:I think this particular piece of paper hurt her more than Explosive Runes.

OR DID IT ?

Trobby

2009-09-13, 04:42 PM

Alright, I can't hold it in any longer. Here's what I think is going to happen.

V is going to tell the Order that he has to return to his homelands for a family emergency, then find the nearest Wizard with a teleport spell to rush back home. He's going to march into his house to confront his spouse. And then...

He's going to settle it outside of court, and agree to let Kyrie take custody of the children.

V is under no sort of illusion towards the travesty of his actions. He KNOWS that he screwed up, that his mate will never, ever have him back. I'm pretty sure tying her hair into a ponytail somehow symbolizes that very fact. He also knows that he is a danger to his entire family, and completely unfit to be a parent to his children.

Therefore, the best course of action she can take is to leave them in the custody of Kyrie and never return to his family, lest they become the target of another vengance killing, or worse, that he personally brings all three of them into danger.

The fact that she was willing and eager to blast the process provider without a second thought will only compound V's guilt, and solidify his resolution to never see her family again. Then, at least, they will be safe.

Frankly, he should have gone back to his family long ago, but she has a duty now to protect the gate from the forces of evil, and going back on two promises is unacceptable. To save his family, he will give them up. It will be her most noble act ever.

All without casting a single spell.

...At least, that's my theory. We'll see what the Giant provides.

riverfullofgood

2009-09-13, 05:31 PM

On a completely different note, I like the "Drawmij" insert. I got to meet Jim Ward a few days ago. He's a good game writer and deserves more credit.

V, on the other hand, kinda deserves this.

:smallsmile: Hey, I thought I was the only one who noticed the reversed name!
Aicalas!
Is there any link between him and OOTS?

Eran of Arcadia

2009-09-13, 05:38 PM

Did she also tell you what this means? :p

Sorry, I'm a translator, but I'm not a native speaker.

it means she couldn't give a definite answer until it happened, because it would depend on circumstances. I think the question confused her anyways.

multilis

2009-09-13, 05:43 PM

What will V do when finds out that after K divorces due to "fiend" taint s/he plans on marrying (disguised) Sabine?

Aldrakan

2009-09-13, 06:12 PM

Not at all. You should always allow your spouse his or her little hobby, whether it is collecting string, or knitting with the neighbors' intestines, as long as it doesn't bother you or the children. But looking at somebody else with lust is a threat to you, and thus far more serious.

I doubt K really cares about V going all evil and such. It is definitely a strike against her, but she can live with that. The problem is that he won't give it up for him. Indeed, she won't even delay long enough to help her get medical attention for the kids. He just is not showing enough interest in her.
So he wants a partner that will pay attention where it is needed, and thus divorces her.

Y'know, if I found out my spouse was a serial killer, I really would not consider "Oh, but I won't let it affect our marriage" any kind of reason to overlook it.
Maybe she doesn't want to married to a monster, that's not exactly an unreasonable position.
What kind of inhumanly self centered attitude is "You can do whatever you want to anyone so long as it doesn't directly affect ME?" That's not realistic in the slightest.

mistformsquirrl

2009-09-13, 06:20 PM

Alright, I can't hold it in any longer. Here's what I think is going to happen.

V is going to tell the Order that he has to return to his homelands for a family emergency, then find the nearest Wizard with a teleport spell to rush back home. He's going to march into his house to confront his spouse. And then...

He's going to settle it outside of court, and agree to let Kyrie take custody of the children.

V is under no sort of illusion towards the travesty of his actions. He KNOWS that he screwed up, that his mate will never, ever have him back. I'm pretty sure tying her hair into a ponytail somehow symbolizes that very fact. He also knows that he is a danger to his entire family, and completely unfit to be a parent to his children.

Therefore, the best course of action she can take is to leave them in the custody of Kyrie and never return to his family, lest they become the target of another vengance killing, or worse, that he personally brings all three of them into danger.

The fact that she was willing and eager to blast the process provider without a second thought will only compound V's guilt, and solidify his resolution to never see her family again. Then, at least, they will be safe.

Frankly, he should have gone back to his family long ago, but she has a duty now to protect the gate from the forces of evil, and going back on two promises is unacceptable. To save his family, he will give them up. It will be her most noble act ever.

All without casting a single spell.

I tend to agree.

Especially given V's expression in that last bit.

Prak

2009-09-13, 06:21 PM

Maybe "Turban Guy" was helping Kyrie gather evidence for the devorce? The D&D equvalent of taking compromising photos. Turban Guy could say "Yes, high judge, V attacked me as I was delivering the summon! V is evil!". Then Kyrie can get custody and the house and everything.

To which V can reply:
"Your honor, I did no such thing. While I did, regretably, assault this man, it was a poorly thought out response to repetitive insult and badgering, such that would raise the ire of any powerful wizard. I do not defend my action, least of all having cast powerful magic in a shop. However, one can look at the event causing my spouse to sue for divorce, the "dragon incident," and the shape in which my beloved family was in when I saw them and understand I was quite stressed and still dealing with emotional anguish. Before this incident I was dealing with physical and mental anguish due to failure of my chosen craft to find a valued party member so that a quest of literally universal significance could be progressed. I had stopped trancing, thinking that if I did not trance each day I would have more time to develop a spell which would pierce magical barriers and communicate with said party member. I was not in my right mind, and unfortunately I was attacked by a vengeful dragon while in this state. I refer you to my testimony of the dragon incident. While in this more powerful state, I believed I could reunite my adventuring party, raise our leader and swiftly finish the quest. My craft repeatedly failed to live to my expectations and plans, thus further frustrating and tormenting my already fragile temper at the moment. After stalling a lich's plans and reconciling with my familiar, I began to atone and heal, but this man deliberately provoked me, seemingly wanting me to attack him. It would seem quite possible that his plan was to provoke me into attack and thus garner artificial and fradulant evidence of my continued "evil" state. I move his testimony be thrown out on account of it constituting entrapment at worst, or at least conspiracy to slander and defraud this esteemed court of law."

Conceivably, Kyrie could then demonize V by simply (and scornfully) saying "if you were researching a commnication spell, why have I not heard from you for 6 years?" though that point would probably get lost in the "wall of speech"

That 'one event' involved a literal deal with the devil
so what? my ideal spouse would be making a deal with a devil upon our wedding day.

and the mass murderhomicide dragoncide of dozens, if not hundreds, of intelligent beings who had never even heard V's name.
Dracocide is perfectly excusable to me if it means protecting me and our kids.

Or hell, even just Gold and Glory...

Don't get drawn into a long-drawn-out argument about whether or not "Kyrie's divorce is morally justified." There is a massive debate over every action made by a character in this comic. You know it's a trap.
But was Rich's creation of Oots morally justified?

Ok people, the joke has hit meta-status, it's dead, got it? if you need it to be more meta for it to die then, fine: Are "morally justified" jokes morally justifiable?

Onyavar

2009-09-13, 06:48 PM

It really is that simple. :smallsmile:

Thanks to Porthos, Ridureyu and David Argall for answers about your legal system. :smallsmile:

Very interesting how you leave the recipiants so many ways to evade summons - and how servers can succeed nevertheless. This information might prove useful if I'm ever sued in the US...

Silverraptor

2009-09-13, 07:07 PM

Awwww... poor V. Maybe they can talk the problem out in the end, but I doubt it.

Hrairoo

2009-09-13, 07:27 PM

oh no! v!

i don't think we'll learn hir gender yet, and i'm glad to see that w/ blackwing's help, he is growing in maturity (although calling hir a warlock was inexcusable). just hope that v can straighten things out, now that he's reformed back to good :D

Tobimaro

2009-09-13, 07:35 PM

Ouch. This is going to hurt, and there are no temporary HP that can help in this situation.

I just wonder if V is going to have to hire Celia to assist in this situation. Or are we going to see the return of Mr. Jones and/or Mr. Rodriguez?

Phexar

2009-09-13, 08:15 PM

Most interesting. :smallsmile: In the previous comic, being called a Warlock reminded V of that fateful day a number of strips ago... and in this, he is now feeling the repercussions of that particular day.

littlequietguy

2009-09-13, 08:16 PM

If the turban guy is working for the linear guild as people first thought then this would have to be a classic trick to emotionally cripple a hero before a fight. If that was true then the parallels and opposites are:
Parallel
They both speak with longer sentences then they need to. (first panel of 678)
Cocky.

Opposite
Frog vs. Blackwing

That actually is not enough parallel. Especially for Nale. Perhaps more stuff will become apparent.

Lissou

2009-09-13, 08:39 PM

I wonder if this was a test.
Something like "If V doesn't attack you, it means he's changed, so don't deliver the paper. If he attacks you when you provoke him, then give him the divorce papers as it will prove he hasn't changed."

FujinAkari

2009-09-13, 08:47 PM

I don't know if this actually occured, but I heard about a time where a guy left the state to avoid being served and, after being unable to serve him, the state eventually responded by summoning him for jury duty and then putting out a bench warrant when he failed to appear.

They have the right to cross state lines in the execution of a warrant, and though the guy was fined a pitiable amount, he was served once brought back into the state.

The_Weirdo

2009-09-13, 08:56 PM

it means she couldn't give a definite answer until it happened, because it would depend on circumstances. I think the question confused her anyways.

Thanks. :)

DOOMBOT9000

2009-09-13, 09:45 PM

just wanna say, V got SERVED!

dps

2009-09-13, 09:51 PM

See, that's where actually being an evil archmage would help him! Soul Trap the only two lawyers in the world and you'll never end up in a proper court!

Where did you get the idea that there are only 2 lawyers in the OotS-world?

Anyway, three minor points:

1) Since when frogs can speak?
2) So, the provocation was a way to give Kyrie additional weapon in court?
3) How many levels this guy had to not notice 50+ damage?
4) So, 120 foot reach of LB just happened to have no one behind Turban Guy in so densely packed town?

1) Since the Budwiser commercials.
2) No, it was a way for the process server to positively identify V and get her to take the summons.
3) No idea.
4) Maybe; we might find out if there was somebody else hit by the blast in the next strip

Also: having trouble counting to four today? :smallbiggrin:

Of course! Who else but a lawyer could be that much of a jerk while exploiting the rules of the establishment to his full advantage?

Process servers aren't lawyers. Trying to hire a lawyer to serve a summons would be akin to trying to hiring the CEO of Toyota to repossess a car.

Kyrie looks more and more like a control freak. I mean, what spouse would deliberatly hire someone to piss off the other?

First, Kyrie probably didn't hire the process server; private process servers are normally hired by the lawyers handling the case, not the actual parties to the case. Of course, this assumes that the elven legal system uses lawyers in civil cases, and the Kyrie isn't representing himself, but both seem reasonable assumptions. Second, the person who hires the process server ususally doesn't tell the process server how to do his job (and in many cases, really doesn't want to know).

There are several specific situations in life in which you can demonstrate genuinely creepy-stalker behavior and get away with it. Those are:

1. In a Romantic Comedy Movie

2. When looking for a parking space at my college

3. When Serving someone.

I can think of at least 2 others:

1. When you're a bounty hunter

2. When you're a repo man.

lio45

2009-09-13, 10:47 PM

Vaarsuvius shouldn't feel bad, his spouse seems to be a fickle bitch if she's going to divorce him for one event. Yeah, he showed an unabashed evil and great, unchained power, but within the DnD-universe you should probably expect that sort of thing.

Try it... do something the magnitude of what V did (not that it will be easy to find and do something comparable in real life) in front of your gf or wife, and see what happens. ;)

lio45

2009-09-13, 10:51 PM

Kirgoth

2009-09-13, 11:40 PM

StoneSkin, Restoration and Non-detection use diamond dust.

Raenir Salazar

2009-09-14, 12:50 AM

maybe the scroll will let V teleport to the trial and come back?

BriarHobbit

2009-09-14, 12:55 AM

That was a surprise. I thought that the "toad mage" might have been a future member of the Linear Guild.

Kaytara

2009-09-14, 01:05 AM

Random casting of deadly magic, of course.

And executing prisoners.

And killing Shojo. And Familicide. And...

Shall I go on?

Why, asking for divorce. It is heinously evil act, isn't it? :smallconfused:

What I'm referring to is the fact that since Kubota's (or even Shojo's, if you went that far) death there will be a group of people who will attempt to whitewash any crime, no matter how evil, while calling justified actions "heinously evil stuff". Sometimes warped morals people can have really scare me - and this is a group I was referring to just before.

Yes, that's what it sounded like. Where, exactly, are you getting grounds to make that sort of generalisation and conclusion? :smallconfused: That the people justifying the lightning bolt, Shojo's killing, Kubota's killing, the Familicide etc. etc. are all the same group? I'm sorry, no offense, but that's just a ridiculous claim to make, especially when saying that "all those people" quickly "changed their tune" at this one comic....

I'm still not sure what you mean by "calling justified actions 'heniously evil stuff'". People questioning whether every single mundane thing in the comic is "morally justified" is a running gag on the boards. A joke. I have no idea how you could take that as serious indication that people genuinely believe those acts to be evil.

I certainly don't remember anyone calling the divorce evil. People have argued that it may not be the best course of action, for various reasons ranging from practical to humanitarian.

There are always people (not certain people, just in general) who have a less extreme stance on one thing or another, yes. That is not the same as the implication in your statement that there's a forum conspiracy club that's deliberately whitewashing every bad thing that happens in the comic regardless of circumstances while calling normal things "evil".

If I misunderstood you in any way, I apologise. If I didn't, I'm just at loss.

Prowl

2009-09-14, 02:31 AM

Is Kyrie's lack of "eléison" a subtle joke or am I reading too much into the name?

bobothegoat

2009-09-14, 02:45 AM

Ok people, the joke has hit meta-status, it's dead, got it? if you need it to be more meta for it to die then, fine: Are "morally justified" jokes morally justifiable?
Sorry, but I don't think morally justified jokes about morally justified jokes being morally justified are morally justifiable. I'm going to have to stop reading your posts if you continue to trivialize such reprehensible actions.

quick_comment

2009-09-14, 07:23 AM

Jesus, people are really calling Kyrie a bitch for divorcing V?

Lets see what she saw V do

1) Teleport in, looking like a goddamn demon. This isnt a big deal, maybe its just the fashion out of elven lands?
2) Hose a black dragon. This is a good deed.
3) MAKE AN UNDEAD OUT THE DRAGONS SKULL AND ERADICATE ITS FAMILY. Making undead is in iteself evil. Its like coming home and finding your spouse torturing a cat. The familicide is evil enough to take a hero like V and have him consigned to hell upon death.
4) Found out he sold his soul to the devil. This too is grounds for divorce by itself.
5) Refuse to end the pact ASAP.
6) Leave again, without even a sincere apology.

Nightfall

2009-09-14, 07:26 AM

Hang on, I'm seeing Drawmij's Instant Summons, not Dawnmij...

That's what I see as well, and it's now a few days since the new comic was posted. Must be a "legal" twist on the whole thing. :smallbiggrin:

Nights1stStar

2009-09-14, 07:34 AM

Dark Faun

2009-09-14, 07:43 AM

She could, provided his self-esteem is low enough for her to think he doesn't deserve to be with them anymore. Or if she believes he's become a danger to them.

Is Kyrie's lack of "eléison" a subtle joke or am I reading too much into the name?
Kyrie sure isn't very merciful. :smalltongue:

Hang on, I'm seeing Drawmij's Instant Summons, not Dawnmij... Maybe I need to wipe my cache and refreshThat's what I see as well, and it's now a few days since the new comic was posted. Must be a "legal" twist on the whole thing. :smallbiggrin:
It's also Jim Ward spelled backwards. :smallwink:

factotum

2009-09-14, 07:53 AM

Is Kyrie's lack of "eléison" a subtle joke or am I reading too much into the name?

You're reading too much. Her name is Inkyrius, Kyrie being a familiar contraction (like Dave is of David).

Prak

2009-09-14, 08:02 AM

Jesus, people are really calling Kyrie a bitch for divorcing V?

Lets see what she saw V do

1) Teleport in, looking like a goddamn demon. This isnt a big deal, maybe its just the fashion out of elven lands?
Appearances shouldn't matter in cases of love.

2) Hose a black dragon. This is a good deed.
debatable, but not a big deal in my mind.

3) MAKE AN UNDEAD OUT THE DRAGONS SKULL AND ERADICATE ITS FAMILY. Making undead is in iteself evil. Its like coming home and finding your spouse torturing a cat. The familicide is evil enough to take a hero like V and have him consigned to hell upon death.
First, making undead is not inherently evil, at least, not in all WotC sources. They could never decide, once and for all, whether it was flat out evil. Likewise there was no actual statement that creating undead traps a soul, at best it can be assumed to hold a mind on the plane, but if you look at petitioners, you aren't using your mind in your final reward anyway. Besides, if you hold that killing a black dragon is a good deed, you cannot then turn around and say that killing 1/4 of the black dragon population in a single spell is evil. Besides, he only animated the dragon's head so that he had a target, so ostensibly it's a neutral act at worst if you hold that killing black dragons is good.
I'd be much more pissed if I came home to find my spouse torturing a cat.

4) Found out he sold his soul to the devil. This too is grounds for divorce by itself.
I point you to stories in which people stand by their spouses who sold their souls to the devil and in fact got the contract invalidated due to their own prior claim on their spouse's soul.

5) Refuse to end the pact ASAP.
He had crap to do, but really this is just another "V should have married another adventurer" thing to me.

6) Leave again, without even a sincere apology.
what's the saying? "Love means never having to say you're sorry"?

Dark Faun

2009-09-14, 08:08 AM

You're reading too much. Her name is Inkyrius, Kyrie being a familiar contraction (like Dave is of David).
But the Giant specifically chose Inkyrius as her name, instead of, say, Gigglesius or Banjolius. We have no proof this is a joke, but no proof this isn't a joke either.

Selene

2009-09-14, 08:22 AM

The problem is that there's only so much an apprentice baker can do to help defeat an Epic-level spell to find someone who, as far as V knew, was suffering horrible captivity in Xykon's domain.

Are you talking about O-Chul? V wasn't looking for O-Chul. He didn't know the bad guys had him. Haley didn't even know that. She thought MitD ate him.

what's the saying? "Love means never having to say you're sorry"?

Said by people who have thus far been unsuccessful in the relationship department, I'd wager.

Dark Faun

2009-09-14, 08:25 AM

Are you talking about O-Chul? V wasn't looking for O-Chul. He didn't know the bad guys had him. Haley didn't even know that. She thought MitD ate him.
She actually means Haley. No one on the ships knew whether she was dead, captured or resisting.

Turkish Delight

2009-09-14, 08:26 AM

Heh. All of this leaves me wondering if genocide (well, familicide, but since it eliminated a major portion of the entire species it comes close enough) is grounds for divorce in the OotS universe. I really, really hope there aren't precedents.

Dark Faun

2009-09-14, 08:28 AM

Well, there's Haerta...

Turkish Delight

2009-09-14, 08:33 AM

Well, there's Haerta...

Yeah, but there are two issues with that:

1) It's unlikely her spouse, if she had one, sued for divorce on the basis of her using familicide. Really, given that she seems to have been evil through and through rather than just temporarily drifting towards the dark side, I wouldn't want to divorce someone who could annihilate me and every single relative I have with a single spell and obviously enjoy doing it.

2) Wasn't one of the three soul splices supposed to have conquered 'world after world'? Haerta might not even be from the OotS world. This might be the first familicide spell ever used here. But then suggesting the existence of worlds beyond the OotS world gets confusing, so eh.

Setting aside the one in the Rift, of course.

Suffice it to say, for any likelihood of familicide ever being brought to court as the basis for a divorce, it would have to be really disturbingly common.

Trobby

2009-09-14, 08:52 AM

Excellent comic. Unless the next three continue it, this is definitely one for the Stick Awards.

Am I the only person left in the thread who likes both V and Kyrie? On one hand, I like how Kyrie doesn't seem to be the type to take crap from anyone. Besides, suddenly finding out your that mate had sold hir soul wouldn't exactly provoke positive reactions.

But on the other hand, the whole reason V sold her soul in the first place was to save Kyrie and their kids. Sure, personal power was a part of it, but if the Black Dragon hadn't threatened to kill hir family, V wouldn't even have considered the deal. (Remember the spat with the imp?) V's going to go to hell for them, and s/he's still going to be separated from hir family. A trigger-happy wizard wouldn't be my first choice for a mate, but dammit, how could you not feel for V?

Incidentally, do you think V would actually agree to the divorce?

Incidentally? No. I'm not that shortsighted. Just because they happen to live in a world where alignments exist doesn't mean their actions are black and white. Kyrie is doing what she has to do to protect his family, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. V is trying to redeem for past mistakes, and his "mistakes" were made only for the sake of bringing safety to his family and the world, but she knew that there was t least one alternative (cutting off his own head), and decided that doing the deed personally was absolutely necessary. Granted, she felt the need to do a number of other things, like take on Lich Sorcerer Xykon and personally fix the plot contrivances of the OotS (even though they were mostly already fixed), so this action was at least partially altruistic, but not wholly, and not completely forgivable either.

Sure, you can argue that one or all of their actions are justified, but by what measure? What qualifies as justice here? Our own personal sense of justice? The DnD rules on justice? Elven laws? Human laws? Do you want to argue that killing any intelligent creature is evil? Or that zombifying them is also innately evil? Is genocide of a species, a species that is entirely evil in alignment, something you can accept? Do we KNOW that it was an entirely evil species, or that the death of evil is in itself good?

I still think I know exactly what V is going to do in the future. I HOPE it's what V does, at least...to me, it's the absolute best thing V could do at this point.

Conuly

2009-09-14, 09:01 AM

You're reading too much. Her name is Inkyrius, Kyrie being a familiar contraction (like Dave is of David).

No, no, no. Kyrie is the chosen contraction because it Means Something. Suvie means something too - sue V! It's all so clear now....

Nights1stStar

2009-09-14, 09:09 AM

Incidentally? No. I'm not that shortsighted. Just because they happen to live in a world where alignments exist doesn't mean their actions are black and white. Kyrie is doing what she has to do to protect his family, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. V is trying to redeem for past mistakes, and his "mistakes" were made only for the sake of bringing safety to his family and the world, but she knew that there was t least one alternative (cutting off his own head), and decided that doing the deed personally was absolutely necessary. Granted, she felt the need to do a number of other things, like take on Lich Sorcerer Xykon and personally fix the plot contrivances of the OotS (even though they were mostly already fixed), so this action was at least partially altruistic, but not wholly, and not completely forgivable either.

Sure, you can argue that one or all of their actions are justified, but by what measure? What qualifies as justice here? Our own personal sense of justice? The DnD rules on justice? Elven laws? Human laws? Do you want to argue that killing any intelligent creature is evil? Or that zombifying them is also innately evil? Is genocide of a species, a species that is entirely evil in alignment, something you can accept? Do we KNOW that it was an entirely evil species, or that the death of evil is in itself good?

I still think I know exactly what V is going to do in the future. I HOPE it's what V does, at least...to me, it's the absolute best thing V could do at this point. I didn't ask whether or not anyone's actions were morally justified. Fun fact about theoretical philosophy: it's often trumped by realism.

What I was interpreting, and asking about, were the thoughts behind the charcter's actions. Namely, how V would react to his/her mate suing for divorce, and not whether or not the divorce in the first place is justisfied.