Sublime Assassin - Black Lotus Discipline

[Zakaroth]

Updated version of the Sublime Assassin can be found here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?219233-3-5-Class-ToB-The-Sublime-Assassin)

[Zakaroth]

Black Lotus

Updated version of this discipline can be found here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217619)

This secret discipline focuses on stealth, poison and assassination techniques. The key skill for Black Lotus is Sleight of Hand. Black Lotus favored weapons include the dagger (any type), ninja-to and short sword (any type).

1ST LEVEL
Eyes of the Unseen: (Stance) ─ Gain darkvision and lowlight vision 60 ft. plus a bonus to Hide equal to half your initiator level.
Poison Swap: (Boost) ─ Apply poison to your blades as a free action.
Veiled Strike: (Strike) ─ Use a Sleight of Hand check to make a sneak attack.

2ND LEVEL
Bloodstainer: (Boost) ─ Your sneak attack dice is doubled and deals +1/ initiator level.
Elusiveness: (Counter) ─ Counter being flanked or use Sleight of Hand check to prevent being disarmed, grappled or tripped.
Pressuring Assault: (Boost) ─ Each successful attack made during this round deals an additional 1d6 points of damage and grants a -2 penalty to Attack and AC.

3RD LEVEL
Cruel Thrust: (Strike) ─ Deal +3d6 damage, increases your melee weapons threat range by 2.
Enduring Venom: (Counter) ─ Force reroll against your poison with a -2 penalty.
Way of the Unseen: (Stance) ─ Take no penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks when moving at any speed up to your normal speed, and only take a -10 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks when running.

4TH LEVEL
Fading Petal: (Counter) ─ Disarm a missing attack with a Sleight of Hand check.
Garrote: (Boost) ─ Your next melee sneak attack deals +4d6 and may hinder the targets ability to speak.
Tainted Blades: (Boost) ─ Attacks deal +2d6 damage and grants a +4 DC to poison save. If the target was already poisoned it takes an additional +1 / initiator points damage.

5TH LEVEL
Death Shroud: (Stance) ─ Foes within 15 ft. are unable to heal by any means; you become immune to fear.
Malicious Strike: (Strike) ─ Deal +5d6 damage, increases your melee weapons threat range by 3 and critical multiplier by 1.
Shifting Blades: (Counter) ─ Counter an attack of opportunity.

6TH LEVEL
Blades of Revealing: (Boost) ─ Gain an extra attack with each weapon and make a Sleight of Hand check to cause the target to become flat-footed against your next turn attack.
Cremator: (Strike) ─ Deal +6d6 damage, and target takes 2d6 acid damage per round for 3 rounds. Causes the targets body to dissolve on death.

7TH LEVEL
Black Venom Thrust: (Strike) ─ Successful attack grants your Dex modifier to the DC to resist your injury poisons, target must instantly roll for secondary poison damage.
Eyes of Massacre: (Stance) ─ Doubles the critical threat range when using light melee weapons, and add one fifth your Sleight of Hand ranks to confirm critical hits.
Twisting Fang: (Strike) ─ Deal +7d6 damage, increases your melee weapons threat range by 4 and critical multiplier by 2, deal Constitution damage on critical and cause bleeding.

8TH LEVEL
Black Lotus Eclipse: (Strike) ─ Deal +5d8 damage, may disable several of the targets senses.
Blades of the Unseen: (Boost) ─ Until the end of turn, your melee sneak attack deal +5d6 damage and allows you to hide at the end of turn.
Veil of Deception: (Counter) ─ Add half your Sleight of Hand ranks to AC and cause target to become flat-footed against your next turn attack.

9TH LEVEL
Death Sealer: (Boost) ─ Until the end of turn, your melee sneak attacks automatically critical hit and may grant the option to Coup de Grace as a free action.

[Zakaroth]

Eyes of the Unseen
Black Lotus (Stance)
Level: Black Lotus 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance

As long as you are in this stance, you gain darkvision and lowlight vision out to 60 feet. In addition, you gain a bonus to Hide equal to half your initiator level.
If you already have darkvision or lowlight vision its range increases by 60 feet.

Poison Swap
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

Until the end of your turn, you may apply or switch a poison to your weapons as a free action. You don’t risk poisoning yourself when using this maneuver.

Veiled Strike
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 1
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature

As part of this maneuver, make a slight of hand check opposed by the opponents AC. If the check succeeds, the target is considered flat-footed against this strike (allowing this strike to become a sneak attack) and in addition you gain a +2 bonus to your attack roll. If the check fails, you make a single normal attack using your highest attack modifier.

Bloodstainer
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 2
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You

Your next melee sneak attack has its base number of bonus dice doubled (to a maximum number of bonus dice equal to half your initiator level) and adds 1 additional point of damage per initiator level.

Elusiveness
Black Lotus (Counter)
Level: Black Lotus 2
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You

You can initiate this maneuver at any time you are flanked or an attempt is made to disarm, grappled or trip you. If you initiate this maneuver as a reaction on being flanked, the flanking creature loses its advantages for flanking you until the beginning of its next turn. If this maneuver is initiated as a reaction on a disarm, grapple or trip attempt you roll a Sleight of Hand check instead of the corresponding defensive roll and use the result of that check to determine the attempts successfulness. A result of a natural 1 on your Sleight of Hand check is not an automatic failure.

Pressuring Assault
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 2
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn

Until the end of turn, each of your melee attacks deal an extra 1d6 points of damage. For each attack that hits, your opponent suffers a -2 penalty to Attack and AC. This penalty lasts until the end of your next round.

Cruel Thrust
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 3
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature

As part of this maneuver, you make single melee attack. If successful, your opponent suffers an extra +3d6 points of damage. When using a light melee weapon while initiating this maneuver, the weapons threat range increases by 2. This effect stacks with other effects that increase threat range.

Enduring Venom
Black Lotus (Counter)
Level: Black Lotus 3
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You

You can use this maneuver to reroll any failed attempt to poison your foe, by means of an injury poison. Your opponent must reroll his save with a -2 penalty.


Way of the Unseen
Black Lotus (Stance)
Level: Black Lotus 3
Prerequisite: One Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance

While you are in this stance, you take no penalty to Hide and Move Silently checks when moving at any speed up to your normal speed, and only take a -10 penalty on Hide and Move Silently checks when running. In addition you may always choose to take 10 on a Hide or Move Silently check.

Fading Petal
Black Lotus (Counter)
Level: Black Lotus 4
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You

Whenever an opponent attacks you and misses, you can initiate this maneuver as an immediate action. As part of this maneuver, you must make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your opponent's attack roll. If your Sleight of Hand check succeeds, you disarm your opponent. If you fail, your opponents attack is considered successful. You cannot initiate this maneuver if you are considered flat-footed against the incoming attack.

Garrote
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 4
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

Your next melee sneak attack deals an additional 4d6 points of damage and your opponent must make a successful Fort save (DC 14 + Dex modifier) or become temporary hindered to speak. For the next 1d4 +1 rounds, the target takes a -5 penalty on any skill check requiring speech, has a 50% chance of failure when casting a spell with verbal commands and is unable to call for help.

Tainted Blades
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 4
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature

Until the end of turn each of your melee attacks deal an extra 2d6 points of damage. If your weapons are coated with poison, the DC for resisting the poison is increased by 4. If the target was already poisoned when initiation this maneuver, your attacks deal an additional +1 points of damage per initiator level. This boost doesn’t apply to natural attacks.

Death Shroud
Black Lotus (Stance) [Su]
Level: Black Lotus 5
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: 15 ft. Radius
Target: You
Duration: Stance

All enemies within 15 ft. radius are unable to gain hit points by any means, and Heal checks automatically fail. In addition, you become immune to fear effects. The effect of this stance applies only to living creatures – undead, constructs and incorporeal creatures are unaffected. This stance is a supernatural ability.

Malicious Strike
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 5
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature

As part of this maneuver, you make single melee attack. If successful, your opponent suffers an extra +5d6 points of damage. When using a light melee weapon while initiating this maneuver, the weapons threat range increases by 3 and multiplier by 1. This effect stacks with other effects that increase threat range.

Shifting Blades
Black Lotus (Counter)
Level: Black Lotus 5
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: immediate

Whenever an opponent makes an attack of opportunity against you, you can initiate this maneuver as an immediate action. As part of this maneuver, you must make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your opponent's attack roll. If your Sleight of Hand check succeeds, your opponent misses and you make an attack of opportunity against your attacker. If it hits, he becomes flat-footed against your next turn melee attack. This attack must take place on your next turn to gain the benefit of this maneuver.

Blades of Revealing
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 6
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn.

After initiating this boost, you can make one additional attack with each weapon you wield (to a maximum of two extra attacks if you wield two or more weapons). These attacks are made with the highest attack modifier for each of your respective weapons. All of these attacks must be directed against the same opponent. If any of your attacks hit this turn, you make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your opponent's AC. If successful your opponent is considered flat-footed against your next turn melee attacks.
For each attack that hits you gain a +1 insight bonus to the Sleight of Hand check made to confirm the secondary effect of this maneuver. These stack among themselves.

Cremator
Black Lotus (Strike) [Acid, Su]
Level: Black Lotus 6
Prerequisite: Two Black Lotus maneuver
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Duration: 3 rounds

As part of this maneuver, you make single melee attack. If successful, it deals an extra 6d6 points of damage. In addition, if this attack hits, the blood of the target turns highly acidic, the victim takes an extra 2d6 points of acid damage each round at the start of its turn for 3 rounds. If this attack kills the target or it dies within the 3 rounds, the body dissolves, leaving only a pile of organic carbonized ooze. Creatures killed while under the effect of this strike can only be returned to life by miracle, true resurrection and wish.

Black Venom Thrust
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 7
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature

With a precise thrust you stab your opponent in a primary artery, allowing the poison to quickly spread throughout the targets vascular system, causing it to go in a state of toxic shock.

As part of this maneuver, you make a single melee attack. If the weapon you wield is coated with an injury poison, you add your Dexterity modifier (if positive) to the DC for resisting your poison. If the target fails the save, he must immediately roll for the secondary poison damage (normal DC).
This maneuver doesn’t apply to natural attacks.

Eyes of Massacre
Black Lotus (Stance)
Level: Black Lotus 7
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance

As you observe an enemy, your eyes focus. The position of every vein, organ and weak spot becomes clear to you.

This stance doubles the critical threat range when using light melee weapons. This effect stacks with other effects that increase threat range. In addition, you get a competence bonus on confirming critical hits equal to one forth your Sleight of Hand ranks, rounded down.

Twisting Fang
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 7
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn.

With a single strike of deathly precision, you pierce your enemy in a vital point. A combination of deep twists causes severe internal damage, leaving your opponent to bleed to death.

As part of this maneuver, you make single melee attack. If successful, your opponent suffers an extra +7d6 points of damage. When using a light melee weapon while initiating this maneuver, the weapons threat range increases by 4 and multiplier by 2 (to a maximum multiplier of 4). This effect stacks with other effects that increase threat range. If this strike results in a critical hit you deal an extra 2 points of Constitution damage, and cause the target to bleed for 5 points of damage each round at the start of its turn. Until the target receives the benefit of a DC 15 Heal check or any cure spell or similar magical healing. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.

Black Lotus Eclipse
Black Lotus (Strike)
Level: Black Lotus 8
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

As part of this maneuver, you make single melee attack. If successful you deal an extra 5d8 points of damage and your opponent must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 18 + your Dex modifier) or become blinded, deafened and lose all sense of feeling for 1d4 rounds.

Blades of the Unseen
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 8
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee Attack
Target: One creature
Duration: End of turn.

Until the end of turn, your melee sneak attacks deal an extra 5d6 points of damage. At the end of your turn, you may use the hide skill as an immediate action, even while being observed. As long as you are within 30 feet of some sort of shadow.

Veil of Deception
Black Lotus (Counter)
Level: Black Lotus 8
Prerequisite: Three Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: immediate

If an opponent attacks you, you can initiate this maneuver. You add halve your Sleight of Hand ranks to AC. If the attack fails, your opponent’s round ends and he becomes flat-footed against your next turn melee attacks. These attacks must take place before or on your next turn to gain the benefit of this maneuver. You cannot initiate this maneuver if you are considered flat-footed against the incoming attack.

Death Sealer
Black Lotus (Boost)
Level: Black Lotus 9
Prerequisite: Four Black Lotus maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn.
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

You make a combination of strikes with lethal precision, ravaging your opponent’s most vital points. As he drops to the ground, paralyzed, due to the excruciating pain. You use this final moment of opportunity to instantly send him to his already impending death.

Until the end of turn, your melee sneak attacks automatically score a critical hit, and the critical multiplier is considered ×4. In addition, at the end of turn, if any of your sneak attacks were successful, your opponent is forced to make a Fortitude save (DC 19 + your Dex modifier) or become paralyzed for 1 round. If your target fails the save, you may choose to make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your opponent's AC. If successful, you make a Coup de Grace as a free action. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity by doing so.

[Godskook]

Here's a cookie for coming up with a recovery mechanism that's both unique and flavorful. The balance is curious on it, but otherwise, I like it.

[Zakaroth]

New Feats

Deathly Precision
Due to keen precision you learn to place your attacks there were the deal great damage.
Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse, one Black Lotus maneuver.
Benefit: Whenever you make a successful sneak attack with one of the preferred weapons of the Black Lotus discipline. You add both your Dexterity and Strength modifier to damage.

Life’s Eclipse
Your deeper insight in the deathly arts of the Black Lotus discipline allows you to perfect your stealth and assassination techniques even further. During combat you use this insight to put yourself one step ahead of your enemies, while setting them one step closer to their death.
Prerequisite: Sleight of Hand 9 ranks, Deathly Precision, two Black Lotus maneuvers.
Benefit: The Life’s Eclipse feat enables the use of three tactical options.
- Death Spiral: To use this option, your must successfully poison a foe in combat with one of the preferred weapons of the Black Lotus discipline. On your next turn, you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls against that foe. If you successfully damage him again during that round, you gain an additional +1 bonus on attack rolls against him during the round thereafter (for a total of +3). This effect keeps stacking upon itself (with a maximum bonus of +5) in the same manner until you fail to hit the foe during a turn. If so, the bonus is completely lost.
- Master of Deception: While you are in a Black Lotus stance, you may use a Sleight of Hand check instead of a bluff check when fainting in combat.
- Seizing Opportunist: To use this option, you must fight defensively for one round. You must also wield one of the preferred weapons of the Black Lotus discipline. On your next turn you gain a +4 insight bonus to all attacks made during that round, while receiving a -2 penalty to AC in return (lasts until the beginning of your next turn thereafter).

[deuxhero]

I wouldn't exactly say a Katana is suited for stealth. 1. Didn't it's users carry a separate weapon for indoor use (where a good portion of stealth is going to happen) 2.Mechanically it is a bastard sword (scimitar if you are generous for the purpose of this class) and doesn't say if you have martial (2 hand) or exotic (1 hand) or both, neither really fits a sneaky character.

I admit that 1 is just nit picking, but 2 is a mechanical issue.

I would suggest giving proficiency with tools used as improv weapons (very handy for an assassin).

[Zakaroth]

Here's a cookie for coming up with a recovery mechanism that's both unique and flavorful. The balance is curious on it, but otherwise, I like it.

Thank you for the kind words. I dont really know if its balanced completely, although Im pretty sure it wont be gamebreaking.


I wouldn't exactly say a Katana is suited for stealth. 1. Didn't it's users carry a separate weapon for indoor use (where a good portion of stealth is going to happen) 2.Mechanically it is a bastard sword (scimitar if you are generous for the purpose of this class) and doesn't say if you have martial (2 hand) or exotic (1 hand) or both, neither really fits a sneaky character.

I admit that 1 is just nit picking, but 2 is a mechanical issue.

I would suggest giving proficiency with tools used as improv weapons (very handy for an assassin).

You do have a point. I removed it, mostly because the class gains proficiency with one exotic weapon of choice, so it can still be chosen as a one-handed weapon anyway (which was intended in the first place anyway).

What kind of tools did you have in mind, because if it would have such a proficiency it would gain it with any kind of improvised weapon right? (e.g. chairs, plates, broken bottles etc)

[Eldan]

I really like this class... assassins and swordsages were always amongst my favourites.

Now, just a small suggestion: perhaps you could use a few of the other homebrew things on this forum with your class? There has been a lot of nine swords homebrew, among them quite a few disciplines.
Perhaps Oncoming Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54816) and Dancing Leaf (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85614) could be fitting for this class?

I'll now go and read through all the maneuvers. That might take a while.

[Vic_Sage]

Looks good from a basic overview other than the Alignment requirement *I hate Alignment requirements on base classes*. GOnna need to go over the manuvers a bit more.

[Eldan]

Okay, let's see... maneuvers.

Veiled Strike: using a skill check to hit is an interesting idea, but I fear that it might be easy to make pretty much certain hits out of this one at higher levels with a skillbooster. Compare at level 20:
15 BAB+dex, about +10 or so from other effects to: 23 skill ranks, 10 dex, easily +20 or more from skill boosters.
I think you should limit the maximum to hit by initiator level*2 or something, to a maximumMaybe give a bonus to hit instead when the check succeeds, like this:
Make a slight of hand check opposed by the opponents AC. If the check succeeds, the target is considered flat-footed and you have a +2 to hit.
Just seems more in line with a level 1 strike.

Bloodstainer: doesn't really seem to work... if you use it at level 4, your class has 2d6 sneak attack. Doubling it would be 4d6, but the maximum the maneuver allows is 2d6. Might need some reworking, if I misunderstood something.

[Zakaroth]

Looks good from a basic overview other than the Alignment requirement *I hate Alignment requirements on base classes*. Gonna need to go over the manuvers a bit more.

Hmmm, I had a discussion about the alignment requirements before, a lot of people seem to dislike it. Therefore, Im thinking about removing it. Maybe it should just be up to the DM and its players. Although, I still think it makes sense :P


Okay, let's see... maneuvers.

Veiled Strike: using a skill check to hit is an interesting idea, but I fear that it might be easy to make pretty much certain hits out of this one at higher levels with a skillbooster. Compare at level 20:
15 BAB+dex, about +10 or so from other effects to: 23 skill ranks, 10 dex, easily +20 or more from skill boosters.
I think you should limit the maximum to hit by initiator level*2 or something, to a maximumMaybe give a bonus to hit instead when the check succeeds, like this:
Make a slight of hand check opposed by the opponents AC. If the check succeeds, the target is considered flat-footed and you have a +2 to hit.
Just seems more in line with a level 1 strike.


You got a point there, and I also like you suggestion. Actually it was a maneuver I made up just before making this post (replacing another), didnt really think it out to much. Anyway good suggestion, will gladly use it.



Bloodstainer: doesn't really seem to work... if you use it at level 4, your class has 2d6 sneak attack. Doubling it would be 4d6, but the maximum the maneuver allows is 2d6. Might need some reworking, if I misunderstood something.

Maybe the text isnt completely clear. It is meant so say; the number of bonus dice granted is capped to half your initiator. So, at level 4, with a base SA of +2d6, you can gain a max number of bonus dice of init. level 4 / 2 = 2 > +2d6, making your sneak attack +4d6 + 4 damage. This was done because I had the feeling this maneuver would otherwise be susceptible to abuse.


Thanks for your input guys!

[The Rose Dragon]

The ninth level maneuver does not fit in with the disciplines in the book, as they all have a strike as the ninth level maneuver.

I haven't read the maneuvers (just the class), but it really bugs me how it breaks the design of ToB.

[Eldan]

Well, I've seen several homemade disciplines with counters on level 9, at least... dancing leaf, which mostly has counters anyway, and oncoming storm, which has some pretty brutal parries...
So, I don't think having strikes as level 9 is necessary. Rather, this gives some more diversity to schools.

[Boci]

Deathly Precision needs to be powered up. Right now it gives the same benefit of shadowblade, but is situational. I'd change it to dex instead of strength (allow an assassin to have 8 strength) and allow them to reroll all ones on a sneak attack, and maybe up the sneak attack damage to 1d8 on a crit.

[Zakaroth]

So, I don't think having strikes as level 9 is necessary. Rather, this gives some more diversity to schools.

I agree, besides it functions much like a strike that can only be initiated under a certain condition.


Deathly Precision needs to be powered up. Right now it gives the same benefit of shadowblade, but is situational. I'd change it to dex instead of strength (allow an assassin to have 8 strength) and allow them to reroll all ones on a sneak attack, and maybe up the sneak attack damage to 1d8 on a crit.

Well it used to be Dex in place of Str for all attacks with discipline weapons. However, I changed it because I thought it might cause to much SAD for this class. I like the idea of increasing the SA dice, though.

[Rising Phoenix]

Hello Zakaroth,

Have you updated this since you posted in WotC boards? I copied and pasted it back then as I did (and do) have uses for it as a DM... :smallbiggrin:

I must say that I preferred the original picture you had rather then this one, but I am just being picky :smalltongue:

Thanks for sharing again!

R.P.

[Zakaroth]

Have you updated this since you posted in WotC boards? I copied and pasted it back then as I did (and do) have uses for it as a DM... :smallbiggrin:


Yeah I have updated it somewhat, replaced two maneuvers: nerve stab for veiled strike (I felt it was a bit to strong) and Elusive Mind for Elusiveness (Elusive Mind was just a lame rip-off and a place holder). I also tweaked some stuff, minor things mostly.
Im just curious, if you actually put it in play, did you encounter any problems with the class?



I must say that I preferred the original picture you had rather then this one, but I am just being picky :smalltongue:
R.P.

Haha, well thats ok. I just searched for a new one because I didnt feel like looking it up in those messy WotC boards (my link to the original is invalid ever since the update). Anyway, I did my best and ta-dah! Now people can vote which one they like more. I personally dont really have a preference. Both are cool.

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/images/300W/i/2002/16/3/d/ASSASSIN.jpg

[Eldan]

The one you used the first post just seems more sublime initiator-y to me. The lower one still makes a good assassin, though.

[Rising Phoenix]

Yeah I have updated it somewhat, replaced two maneuvers: nerve stab for veiled strike (I felt it was a bit to strong) and Elusive Mind for Elusiveness (Elusive Mind was just a lame rip-off and a place holder). I also tweaked some stuff, minor things mostly.
Im just curious, if you actually put it in play, did you encounter any problems with the class?



Cool I'll update my word. doc then. =). I have used it and when coupled with the teleportive abilities of shadow hand drove my PCs mad. (Which was a good thing :smallbiggrin:). This was just 1 skirmish though so the NPC just retreated after assassinating the NPC target and poisoning a few of the PCs so I can't really tell you how it would fare on a full fledged battle. It makes for a good assassin if that's what you're asking! :smallsmile:

Thanks for the image too!

R.P.

[Eloel]

Death Sealer doesn't work. You use your swift action to initiate the maneuver, you have no swift to immediatify for Coup de Grace.

Veil of Deception has Initiation: Immediate Action & Duration: 1 round, you seem to have mis-placed it.

Also, can an assassin/invisible blade ready a maneuver as an immediate action?

[Boci]

Death Sealer doesn't work. You use your swift action to initiate the maneuver, you have no swift to immediatify for Coup de Grace.

Its an immediate action to Coup de Grace, not a swift action.

[Eloel]

Its an immediate action to Coup de Grace, not a swift action.

Dang, we're still at basics.


Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn.

[Zakaroth]

Cool I'll update my word. doc then. =). I have used it and when coupled with the teleportive abilities of shadow hand drove my PCs mad. (Which was a good thing :smallbiggrin:). This was just 1 skirmish though so the NPC just retreated after assassinating the NPC target and poisoning a few of the PCs so I can't really tell you how it would fare on a full fledged battle. It makes for a good assassin if that's what you're asking! :smallsmile:

Thanks for the image too!

R.P.

Cool to hear how u used it, seems like you pulled out the nastiness of the class quite well :smallsmile:


Death Sealer doesn't work. You use your swift action to initiate the maneuver, you have no swift to immediatify for Coup de Grace.

I dont see the problem. Sure, you are correct. But the text says you make a coup de grace as an immediate action. Its part of the mechanic. Abilities often allow things that normally cant be done.


Veil of Deception has Initiation: Immediate Action & Duration: 1 round, you seem to have mis-placed it.

You are correct, fixed


Also, can an assassin/invisible blade ready a maneuver as an immediate action?

Dont know, im not really familiar with the class. Sounds like it could be imbalanced. Its not intended, for sure.

[The Rose Dragon]

I dont see the problem. Sure, you are correct. But the text says you make a coup de grace as an immediate action. Its part of the mechanic. Abilities often allow things that normally cant be done.

It would be easier to say it's a free action, though, since there is no limit to the free actions you can take.

[Boci]

Dang, we're still at basics.

So you use Death Sealer as a swift action, take your tuen, then end your turn and use an immediate action.


It would be easier to say it's a free action, though, since there is no limit to the free actions you can take.

That would make the move more powerful (you can still use a swift action on your next turn) and allow you to Coup de Grace multiple opponents.

[Godskook]

So you use Death Sealer as a swift action, take your tuen, then end your turn and use an immediate action.

That would make the move more powerful (you can still use a swift action on your next turn) and allow you to Coup de Grace multiple opponents.

No, the maneuver is over before you have access to your next turn's immediate action.

[Eloel]

I dont see the problem. Sure, you are correct. But the text says you make a coup de grace as an immediate action. Its part of the mechanic. Abilities often allow things that normally cant be done.
Just calling either of them Free could make things neater. It doesn't state nowhere that you gain an extra swift action, so it, by RAW (of your homebrew), it's utterly unusable unless you have another source of swift actions.


So you use Death Sealer as a swift action, take your tuen, then end your turn and use an immediate action.
Nowhere does it say you 'end your turn'. That's not even RAI afaik.


That would make the move more powerful (you can still use a swift action on your next turn) and allow you to Coup de Grace multiple opponents.

True (if [and only if] you attack more than 1 opponent with your super-sneak attacks). But making the maneuver itself free-action would do the trick.

[Golden-Esque]

Thank you for the kind words. I dont really know if its balanced completely, although Im pretty sure it wont be gamebreaking.

Considering that feinting requires a successful Bluff check, I don't think it's overpowered at all.

It's definitely interesting to note that Assassins have a more difficult time regaining their maneuvers against enemies that have low intelligence scores (Bluffs take penalties against animals and stuff).

I intend to read this more thoroughly after class; that was just a first note :P.

[Boci]

No, the maneuver is over before you have access to your next turn's immediate action.

Well spotted. Well then the duration could be changed to 1 round.



Nowhere does it say you 'end your turn'. That's not even RAI afaik.


True (if [and only if] you attack more than 1 opponent with your super-sneak attacks). But making the maneuver itself free-action would do the trick.

By "end your turn" I meant your turn if over (at which point you can take immediate actions). As Godskook pointed out the current manouver doesn't allow this, but changing its duration to 1 round would.

[Zakaroth]

Ok, fair enough, free action is in fact neater. Furthermore, it was intended to allow the coup the grace instantly and ending the turn.

Something like this:
If successful, you make a Coup de Grace as an free action and with this ends your turn. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity by doing so.

[Godskook]

Ok, fair enough, free action is in fact neater. Furthermore, it was intended to allow the coup the grace instantly and ending the turn.

Something like this:
If successful, you make a Coup de Grace as an free action and with this ends your turn. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity by doing so.

Another idea:

Initiation action: See text
"You may activate this maneuver as a free action whenever you make a sneak attack on your turn."

Then, the coup de grace can be an immediate action as planned.

[Zakaroth]

Seems like a valid idea. however, its getting late, so I will take a look at it tomorrow.

[Iferus]

Now, I like the flavor of this class, but doesn't it outdo a rogue on nearly every aspect?

[Boci]

Now, I like the flavor of this class, but doesn't it outdo a rogue on nearly every aspect?

Its more powerful then the rogue. By reducing sneak attack and giving it class features against which less creatures have outright immunity he has made the class better. I guess he could drop the skill amount to 4/level to allow the assassin to take the skills he needs to be stealthy without stepping on the skill monkey's toes.

[Zakaroth]

Now, I like the flavor of this class, but doesn't it outdo a rogue on nearly every aspect?

Yes, this was also a major concern while designing the class. On the other hand, the rogue as by 3.5 seems a little underpowered. This class, compared to the later released - and improved - pathfinder version, scales up quite nicely (IMO). Which is a good thing, as I find their version of the rogue overall more balanced. Also note, that the Sub. Assassin doesnt have access to the UMD skill, quite a skill loss.