Snarl... Destroyer... Or Creator!?!

[Steven the Lich]

Alright, from what we were all told, Snarl was the entity created from the bickering of the gods when they went about making the world.
He was a god killing creature of chaos, with no order, was easily countered when the others teamed up to create a world that could contain him.

We were also told that he killed anything that came near the rifts of his prison... Body AND soul.

But when we get a glance into that rift, we see not a destroyer, but a world... the question is... Why?

It could be that Snarl is in fact attempting to create his own world, perfect and without the bickering that gave birth to him. And it would be in his own image nonetheless. Perhaps he is instead snatching souls into it to inhabit it via the rifts.

Or... another thing that came into mind while I was typing this... Its just the old world that the gods made, which Snarl was born on. But I much more like the former. :smallbiggrin:

So, possible, plausible, or just plain ludicrous... Discuss.

[Jagos]

I would think that the Snarl can't create, merely... destroy. If that's the proper term for it.

We don't know what happened to the bodies of the old gods. If there's any speculation on my part, it's the possibility that they were engulfed into the Snarl, tranforming its purpose. It was born out of a senseless slaughtering rage. Doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

I would think that souls somehow are inside, trapped in a mirror world that was possibly the Eastern Gods' creation from their Fate worse than Death. Though there's strong evidence, it bears the question...

Where IS the Snarl? Surely having a world inside the portal tells us that there is SOMETHING there that is beyond epic. What we have to do is find out why the Snarl killed those gods.

Unfortunately, we won't know that until one of the Gods decide to spill the beans.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I think your idea is unlikely, but awesome.

[Trobby]

Why be exclusive? We see clearly that The Snarl can destroy existence, but we only have the Word of Gods that it can't create existence. Maybe several hundred years of imprisonment has given it time to learn how to create instead of destroy. Maybe The Snarl gradually curled up in itself and formed a world AFTER its destruction. And maybe it simply does not WANT to destroy anything, even though it could.

Who's to say that the two have to be related or mutually exclusive? One who can create can destroy, and need not destroy to create.

[Harr]

Yes, this idea popped into my head when I read the glimpse-into-the-rift strip. The Snarl trying to be the creator of a perfect world/universe in an attempt to pacify the rage over the conflicts that created him would be really interesting... especially if he's unable to create life and has to steal people from the OOTS world to populate it.

In fact, remember that whole sequence where Redcloak is threatening to dump a bunch of innocent people into the rift if Ochul doesn't talk? I remember even back then, I thought the whole angle of "It would be such a horrible fate" was so over-stated by both of them that I suspected something else was going on... and this would fit in really nicely with that... that the people would not have been unmade, but instead sent to live in a perfect world free of war or conflict.

I actually have a hard time imagining any more interesting ways the whole Snarl thing could turn out. So I like.

[GSFB]

The "Snarl" is the wrath of the DM. The bickering was from the DM and the real-life players arguing about things like "can the Greek Pantheon and the Norse Pantheon both exist and interract with the same world at the same time?"

Eventually, the DM, who was in the process of building a home-brewed world, got so frustrated that he tore out pages from his notebook and crossed out sections of text, thereby "destroying" aspects of his fictional world.

What Blackwing saw inside the rift is Earth, where the DM lives.

The entire OotS Universe exists, because someone on Earth put enough thought into an idea that the idea formed a life of its own.

Rich Burlew is the Snarl. At least, his eraser is.

[Jagos]

Why be exclusive? We see clearly that The Snarl can destroy existence, but we only have the Word of Gods that it can't create existence. Maybe several hundred years of imprisonment has given it time to learn how to create instead of destroy. Maybe The Snarl gradually curled up in itself and formed a world AFTER its destruction. And maybe it simply does not WANT to destroy anything, even though it could.

Who's to say that the two have to be related or mutually exclusive? One who can create can destroy, and need not destroy to create.

I believe that it comes from a certain belief in Yan and Yan. A creator can't be a destroyer and vice versa. If the Snarl has the ultimate power to destroy the worlds of Gods, then where could he find the power to literally create it?

It's almost like a bomb has a specific purpose. You can't change that purpose to try to build a bridge, merely pave a way for something else to build.

[Trobby]

I believe that it comes from a certain belief in Yan and Yan. A creator can't be a destroyer and vice versa. If the Snarl has the ultimate power to destroy the worlds of Gods, then where could he find the power to literally create it?

It's almost like a bomb has a specific purpose. You can't change that purpose to try to build a bridge, merely pave a way for something else to build.

Yes, I understand the concept of a being with only one purpose, but what I'm saying is that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. The only proof we have for this is a destructive tendency from birth. For all we know, lashing out at the "Greek" gods was simply a mistake, and it had no intention of causing any pain (I doubt this but bring it up as a hyperbole for what might be true).

[Jagos]

A mistake? Could you expand on that?

[David Argall]

At this point, we have very little even half-way solid information to base things on, and that pretty much means we can produce any result we please, and which has only a trivial chance of being correct. Likely best to speculate on subjects where we have at least a little idea what is going on.

[Harr]

A mistake? Could you expand on that?

I believe he means something like Frankenstein's monster throwing the little girl into the lake after the flowers. It wasn't necessarily wanting to destroy the girl, it simply thought, fun to pretty things in the lake -> girl is pretty -> girl goes in the lake.


Anyways, think about why the Snarl was created. It grew out of fights where the gods couldn't agree on what to put into their world and out of the anger that arose from that, i.e. the frustration of not being able to create the perfect world.

So on the surface there could be the normal short-term reaction to being frustrated (rage and destruction), but there's no logical barrier that would prevent something else to be hidden away in there and surface with time (the determination to try again and do it even better next time).

Not saying there's any evidence there, but to just say "No no, it's just destruction, nothing but destruction sorry!" Is IMO too simple, and we already know that there's a lot more going on than we know (that revelation being the payoff of the book that just ended).



Likely best to speculate on subjects where we have at least a little idea what is going on.

As long as the mods don't have a problem with it, I'll spec about whatever I want to spec about, but thanks for the suggestion.

[The Rose Dragon]

The "Snarl" is the wrath of the DM.

But there are no DM or players in OotS, so your hypothesis is invalid.

[Nimrod's Son]

We see clearly that The Snarl can destroy existence, but we only have the Word of Gods that it can't create existence.
Well, no. We only have the word of the gods that the snarl exists at all. We haven't seen anything of it.

[Jagos]

Shojo's story about Kraagor seems to match what we know of one gate.

Otherwise, we only know he possibly disappeared into a gate.

[Trobby]

I believe he means something like Frankenstein's monster throwing the little girl into the lake after the flowers. It wasn't necessarily wanting to destroy the girl, it simply thought, fun to pretty things in the lake -> girl is pretty -> girl goes in the lake.


That's sort of what I thought, too. Only to me, it's more like how an infant will cry and thrash about after being born. As an infant, there isn't much harm to be done. As a creature formed from the snarls of the world, created by gods? Some serious damage could take place. Especially if anybody was nearby.

My thoughts are that the Greek Gods were heading on down to the New Earth to enjoy their handiwork, when the Snarl broke out and ambushed them. Then, I suppose, the Snarl saw the Earth and tore it apart, like a child tearing apart their favorite toy.

Of course, I could be giving the Snarl too little credit. This is a theory, folks. Not a thesis.

[Threeshades]

It might be that the world behind the rift is simply the old world that was sealed inside the new one together with the snarl.

[Mugen Nightgale]

The Snarl grew full of hate and chaos because by the time that was the only thing the gods were emanating. It's possible for me that the Snarl is simply a reflex of someone else's influence. As he is made of raw reality and nothing more. If there is no hate for him to absorb it could just reflex another thing. Maybe the wishes of the dead souls to have a home. The same people that the snarl destroyed can be shaping him into something different. I can't see the Snarl as an evil entity as it has no will of its own. Maybe it is the other planet where the beings that were bound to him live now.

Just my two cents.

[Ironwolf172]

I like the DM idea... but for the purposes of a good disscussion I'll ignore it.

The Snarl is made of the "threads" of reality, the same threads that make up the world. Just rearranged in a hateful destructive monster.So therefore I believe that it did not create the world inside the rift,technically. Someone once said, "If you put a million monkeys in front of a million typewriters one of them will eventually bang out the works of Shakespeare." Perhaps the same applys here. The Snarl, trapped inside out earth, rearranged itself constantly. The same way a man would pace in a prison cell (we know that it has lifelike qualities wheather it is living or not). So eventually it rearranged itself into an organized form. Maybe it didn't create a world, rather, it became one (on accident). The Snarl is made of "reality" and that would explain why it is no longer reaching outof the rifts, because it doesn't exist anymore.

Also, people thought being thrown in was a horrible punishment because the rift was big and scary and it is irrelevant to the Snarl.

[GSFB]

But there are no DM or players in OotS, so your hypothesis is invalid.

Really? Or is that just what Giant WANTS you to think?

[Gamerlord]

I think the snarl is the planet.

[JonahFalcon]

Flying Spaghetti Monster, save us!

[Moff Chumley]

I think SHUT UP. All of you.

[Trobby]

Flying Spaghetti Monster, save us!

...The Snarl is the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Oh my gods...s-suddenly it all makes sense!

[Ironwolf172]

I think SHUT UP. All of you.

Wow, that was pointlessly mean. Only 22 comments and very few of them irrelevant to the main topic (and when the are they're short). There are a zillion of places you could have posted that and have been validated for it but I don't think this particular thread is one of those places.

P.S. I prefer my theory (as did someone else :smallsmile:), but I have no objection to hearing more about the spagehtti monster.

[AxeD]

The "Snarl" is the wrath of the DM. The bickering was from the DM and the real-life players arguing about things like "can the Greek Pantheon and the Norse Pantheon both exist and interract with the same world at the same time?"

Eventually, the DM, who was in the process of building a home-brewed world, got so frustrated that he tore out pages from his notebook and crossed out sections of text, thereby "destroying" aspects of his fictional world.

What Blackwing saw inside the rift is Earth, where the DM lives.

The entire OotS Universe exists, because someone on Earth put enough thought into an idea that the idea formed a life of its own.

Rich Burlew is the Snarl. At least, his eraser is.



He should totally have a cameo. If Jon Favreau can have a supporting role in Iron Man, Rich should totally rock up in the capaign!

[Sewblon]

Maybe the Snarl never existed at all. Maybe the other gods just got into a disagreement with the eastern gods so they trapped them inside the OOTS world with the first world they created and made up the story about the Snarl so that their creations would still worship them.

[Jagos]

If that's the case, why do we have two humanoid stories that say otherwise? Why have claws lash out at the goblin priest as well as Soon's wifey?

[multilis]

If that's the case, why do we have two humanoid stories that say otherwise? Why have claws lash out at the goblin priest as well as Soon's wifey?A tragic accident. Snarl was trying to invite both into the better world, but he suffers the same problem as MITD when he tries to touch lightly.

Join us. Help your loved ones to enter the rift. Escape to a better world!

Holey Brotherhood