Heroes; What's the Appeal?

[Crow]

I cannot stand to watch this show. I just really cannot get into it. I couldn't tell you what it is about it, so don't even try to convince me.

What I want to know, from people who do like the show, what is it about the show that makes you like it? Why do so many people find it so enjoyable, while I think it's just more formulaic crap? Because it seems like I am the only one.

[Lord Seth]

I cannot stand to watch this show. I just really cannot get into it. I couldn't tell you what it is about it, so don't even try to convince me.

What I want to know, from people who do like the show, what is it about the show that makes you like it? Why do so many people find it so enjoyable, while I think it's just more formulaic crap?I think a lot of people keep watching it in the hopes that it might finally be as entertaining as the first season again.

[chiasaur11]

The first season had some likable characters, well paced mysteries, and brain eating.

Later seasons just had suckiness.

[Haruki-kun]

I cannot stand to watch this show. I just really cannot get into it. I couldn't tell you what it is about it, so don't even try to convince me.

Heh. I won't. :smalltongue:


What I want to know, from people who do like the show, what is it about the show that makes you like it? Why do so many people find it so enjoyable, while I think it's just more formulaic crap? Because it seems like I am the only one.

I, personally, enjoy shows where there's a lot of characters, especially if they're not following a central storyline.

It is true, however, that the writers have discovered a formula that works:

1. Someone travels through time and/or has a premonition. This involves the world being destroyed somehow.
2. Hiro knows it's his destiny to fix it.
3. Peter does the same without using the word "destiny".
4. ???????
5. PROFIT! (Literally.)

Note: I have not finished Season 3.

[Perenelle]

I've only watched a few episodes. I never really got into it either.

[Yoren]

In season one it had a little X-men feel to it with people discovering they had powers and meeting other people with powers. They had a compelling villain (Sylar) who was uncomplicated, but very effective as a boogyman. Those things combined with some pretty people and some special effects made it a fun show.

The last couple of seasons were not so good. In fact I stopped watching S2 about half way through and S3 after about 5 episodes. I'll tune in for S4 in hopes that it'll return to its former glory but I'm not hopeful and its getting a really short leash.

Edit: I agree the time traveling has gotten stale as a plot device.

[Mystic Muse]

after the third season I stopped watching. or maybe it was the second. I'm not sure, all I know is I got sick of it after that. the end of that season would have been a dignified death but the new plot was just stupid.

first season was definitely best.

[Haruki-kun]

Oh, yeah, I remember now when I dropped it:

(Early Season 3 spoilers)
Sylar: You're not my mom.
Angela: Oh, but I am, dear!

Me: ................What. The. Hell?

No, really, where'd they even get that?

[littlebottom]

i think a large part of what made series 2 onwards go down hill, was the writers strike, they were halfway through the series and had to basically edit it quickly to come to some form of conclusion, this screwed with alot of previous plot points.

its not the only reason series 2 and 3 are not as good, but i still watch em, i mean, its free and nothing else is on telly :smalltongue:

[kpenguin]

Whaddaya mean? Sylar's been having issues of being "special" since the beginning. It makes sense to have someone play with those issues for their own purposes.

[TehSheen]

I really enjoyed the first season of Heroes. But the later seasons was like...painful. It was like drinking a really good bowl of soup that your mom needed you to drink. But then, you find out that it is made from dog pee. And you STILL need to finish it. Sorry for the charming little visual there folks.

[Haruki-kun]

Whaddaya mean? Sylar's been having issues of being "special" since the beginning. It makes sense to have someone play with those issues for their own purposes.

I just don't buy it. It seems people love dropping the "I AM YOUR FATHER/MOTHER" line anytime these days.

[Lord Seth]

i think a large part of what made series 2 onwards go down hill, was the writers strike, they were halfway through the series and had to basically edit it quickly to come to some form of conclusion, this screwed with alot of previous plot points.I'm going to disagree on that. I think the writer's strike improved the season. The later episodes of season two were definitely better than the earlier ones, and I think it was the earlier end of the season got the writers to finally stop wasting everyone's time and start advancing the plot. It still wasn't as good as season one, but it was definitely better than the earlier parts of the season.

[kpenguin]

I just don't buy it. It seems people love dropping the "I AM YOUR FATHER/MOTHER" line anytime these days.

Buy what? That they would say that or that Sylar would believe them?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I got into season 1. A whole friggin' lot. Why? Because it was somewhat realistic, and gritty. It wasn't actually a comic book. And... it just gripped me. Was my favorite show ever for awhile.

This lasted through part of season 2 til, yeah, the writer's strike. Then it was kind of 'ughhhhh' for the rest of season 2. Season 3 was an abomination. Pure and simple until the last half. I think they were trying to get back to season 1 and they were on the right track but never quite hit it.

We'll see what 4 brings us.

Things they need to do to make it more watchable...

Powers
#1. Make them more subtle. Stop killing off or abandoning every characters that doesn't throw off some kind of spazzic energy.
#2. Stop duplicating powers amongst characters, or if you must, make them subtly different.
#3. Keep consistent with how you acquire them. Are you born with it or friggin' not? Stop making them 'wish dependent'. Worse concept ever.

Characters
#1. Get rid of Ali Larter and never let me see her again. Anywhere. Ever.
#2. Matt Parkman is a caveman. A dumb, slobbering neanderthal. That he has an advanced mind is so ironic it's almost genius. If that is the purpose of his character ok, maybe it's a good idea.
#3. Bring back Sylar. Only intelligent, imaginative villain ever. Or make him a good guy. Don't care.
#4. Mohinder. Why is he alive? Why is he suddenly good again? Or better yet, let the indian DIE so we won't have to worry.
#5. Hayden. Oh Hayden. Don't ACTUALLY become a barbie doll. And start reviving people, or have you forgotten your heart pumps the fountain of immortality?

Consistency
Just stay consistent. That's all I ask. There is so much potential to this show if someone would just keep all the facts together.

[kpenguin]

Heroes is/was gritty? Say wha?

[Mystic Muse]

Heroes is/was gritty? Say wha?

wha?:smallbiggrin:

[Haruki-kun]

Buy what? That they would say that or that Sylar would believe them?

Allow me to elaborate. Again, this is the way I see it. Anyone can disagree with me.

Media many years back:
"I AM YOUR FATHER!"
"NOOOOOOO!!!!!"
Audience: "HOLY CRAP! I did not see that coming!"

Media a while back:
"I AM YOUR FATHER!"
"NOOOOOOOO!!!!!"
Audience: "Oh, OK."
(Later) "It's not true! He lied! Your father was ______!!!!"
Audience: "HOLY CRAP! I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING!!!"

Newer:
"I AM YOUR FATHER!"
"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"*
Audience: "Oh, OK."
(Later) "It's not true! He lied! your father was ______!!!!"
Audience: "......Oh. OK."

*Yes, I know, that wasn't Sylar's reaction, but that's not the point.


I dunno, I just don't find the unexpected family ties that believable, and if they're fake, I don't believe he believed them.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Well . . . it's a scenario where people have super powers and it's a global phenomenon. And superheroes are non-existent at this point, so it's not like the wider society is expecting these things.

So for the most part, it's just a collection of stories about normal people who don't get to dress-up and fight evil. Mostly, they're just trying to get by without raising too much of a ruckus. (With the exception of Hiro, who is convinced that he has to fight evil, but does it awkwardly.)

However, the unfocused direction and pulpy feel of the show put me off of it. So I don't think I've even seen much of the second season.

[thorgrim29]

#5. Hayden. Oh Hayden. Don't ACTUALLY become a barbie doll. And start reviving people, or have you forgotten your heart pumps the fountain of immortality?

Consistency
Just stay consistent. That's all I ask. There is so much potential to this show if someone would just keep all the facts together.



Two things, first, the whole healing blood thing probably falls under the consistency comment.

Second, I agree with you, and it's sad. Hayden Pannetiere is actually a more then decent actress as well as an incredible babe (see her role in Malcolm or season one of heroes for exemple). But lately it's like the director and the writers forgot that, and are just giving her two moods:
-I'm determined, you can see that because I look constipated
-I'm sad, you can see that because I cut myself/get pseudophylosophical about the nature of being human.

[Avilan the Grey]

In season one it had a little X-men feel to it with people discovering they had powers and meeting other people with powers.


This. Although I never continued watching after episode 6 (no time), this was it. On the other hand most series like this are at best in the lead-up.

[Nerd-o-rama]

#3. Bring back Sylar. Only intelligent, imaginative villain ever. Or make him a good guy. Don't care. I stopped watching after season 1, but didn't they already do this? Like two or three times? Each?

[V'icternus]

I'm a Heroes fan, and have watched and enjoyed it all the way through to the latest plot twist. (My friend, another fan, missed the season finale, so I had to explain it to him... poor bugger...)

I just love all the "WTF!!?!??!!?!?!" moments. Like the aforementioned plot twist. I did not see that coming. It wasn't as bad as (Harry Potter book 6 Spoiler) Snape killing Dumbledore but was very, very plot-twisty, and kinda still creeps me out...

Anyway, I watch the show for the characters, to see what happens, and because it can be a very funny show at times. (Mostly when Hiro is involved. Yata!)

[averagejoe]

I stopped watching after season 1, but didn't they already do this? Like two or three times? Each?

Yes. And it mostly wasn't explained.

The thing about Heroes is this; it is an entirely character based show. It always has, and continues to, use the most tired, worst stock storylines from the comic books. (Time travel, superpower "cure," government guy irrationally hating everyone ever who has superpowers no matter what.) For the first season that was okay. The power level for that season was relatively low (most people had weak or don't-help-in-combat powers, and the more powerful people couldn't really control their powers very well/were complete dorks/were villains). There were some non-character elements that worked, like the aura of mystery, and these mysteries being explained at a much better rate than those of, say, Lost, and overall it gave the impression of a well planned (if, at times, dumb) plotline. This, along with interesting and compelling characters, made for a strong show. They tried to get this back in later seasons, but most of the characters were derailed/became cliches of themselves/went the way of Sylar and underwent many schizophrenic, unexplained changes. They tried to get back that aura of mystery, but most things had been explained, and the plot (never that strong to begin with) began to sink into the contrived, the nonsensical, and the cliche in order to compensate. People got major powerups, then were quickly depowered for generally stupid reasons once the writers realized what a mistake that was. In short, the thing was mishandled on several levels and became a mess. It's my belief that this is because the writers tried to recapture season one instead of going forward, but who knows what might have been?

One of the major reasons I found the series compelling is that it avoided one of the most commonly annoying traits that superhero series seem to have, this propensity to draw a clear line between "superheroes" and "normies," and judging their effectiveness thusly, without regards to ability. Heroes eventually degenerated into this, so I'll use the show to give an example. End of season three: now, I would think that a guy with a gun would be more effective in combat than an unarmed guy whose power is flight and has otherwise basically human capabilities. However, it would seem, season three disagrees. Peter's statement that only superpowered people can effectively fight superpowered people is as preposterous as it is ridiculous, and goes against much of what the show is built upon. Stuff like that changes the show from, "Normal guys with powers," to, "Superheroes vs. normies," and the latter is just unbearable. Season one probably had the most satisfyingly normal people with superpowers, but they just up and ruined it.

[The Extinguisher]

Oh, yeah, I remember now when I dropped it:

(Early Season 3 spoilers)
Sylar: You're not my mom.
Angela: Oh, but I am, dear!

Me: ................What. The. Hell?

No, really, where'd they even get that?

Spoiler alert: She wasn't


Anyway, I stopped watching it sometime around season four. Not because I disliked it, but I just missed it a lot.

I should pick up the DVDs. If only for sexy sexy Zachary Quinto.

[chiasaur11]

This. Although I never continued watching after episode 6 (no time), this was it. On the other hand most series like this are at best in the lead-up.

Actually, not this time.

The best part was episode 17, Company Man.

Fuller was firing on all cylinders when he wrote that one.

Also, to Joe:

I agree on the whole normie bit. One of the great things about season one was how the most badass guy on the show was just an ordinary guy with horn rimmed glasses.

[Otogi]

In season one it had a little X-men feel to it with people discovering they had powers and meeting other people with powers.

/snip

Actually, I have to disagree. In fact, one of the reasons I loved the show was because it wasn't like X-Men. It kept powers and characters ambiguous rather than constantly explaining them and how they work and it had a more mystical/spirtual feel, which seemed pretty unique. It was very well written, smart and had some pretty good characterization. But as the show progressed (and the writer's strike reared it's ugly head), it basically became X-Men Lite and a lot the things that I (and other people) liked about the characters and the writing kinda dwindled into things that seemed more about pleasing people who never watched it rather than the people who did.

So, in short, watch the first season, beware the stink of amateur writing and rattings for the rest. Might get better though.

[pita]

Spoiler alert: She wasn't


Anyway, I stopped watching it sometime around season four. Not because I disliked it, but I just missed it a lot.

I should pick up the DVDs. If only for sexy sexy Zachary Quinto.

You mean Volume four. That's still part of season three.
I shut off my mind for Volume Two and Volume Three. Volume Four was actually pretty good, although not as good as Volume One.

[The Extinguisher]

Yeah yeah. Volume four. Whatever. It was right after that plane thing.

I think we can blame the writer's strike on this one. It just went downhill from there.

[factotum]

Oh, yeah, I remember now when I dropped it:

(Early Season 3 spoilers)
Sylar: You're not my mom.
Angela: Oh, but I am, dear!

Me: ................What. The. Hell?

No, really, where'd they even get that?

Er, maybe you should have kept watching, because it was made pretty clear by the end of the season that:


She wasn't Sylar's mother at all, and had only said she was as a means of gaining control over him.

[Lord Seth]

Yeah yeah. Volume four. Whatever. It was right after that plane thing.

I think we can blame the writer's strike on this one. It just went downhill from there.No, it was going downhill before the writer's strike.

I'm still of the opinion that the writer's strike improved season two. The season was lame at first, but when they found out they'd have a shorter season, they finally got around to actually having interesting things happen in the later episodes of the season. Still not as good as season one, but a definite improvement.

[Vic_Sage]

Seeing how Jeph Loeb has been fired *He's the guy who wrote just about everything everyone hated such as Sylar's lame face turn*, we may not have to put up with Larter anymore ,and Peter has been powered down to a reasonable degree I have hope for the next season.

[Jerthanis]

It's got people with superpowers interacting in dramatic ways. Sometimes they use those superpowers (moreso the more seasons go by)

That's pretty much everything it's got going for it.

Personally, I thought Season one was lame, and Season two was worse, but that it significantly improved in Season three. Because they got off their "pacing is for sissies" bus and decided to have things happen every episode instead of every 4 episodes and have characters meet and stick with one another for more than 5 minutes.

Also, the plot for Season 1 was cribbed from Watchmen, but lame. I don't know why people liked Season 1 when it was so obviously ripping things off. I thought the show got much better when they started writing more original stories.

[Ichneumon]

It's got people with superpowers interacting in dramatic ways. Sometimes they use those superpowers (moreso the more seasons go by)

I fully agree. That's all the main appeal. People with superpowers, using them in a strange mixture of a not very romantic soap opera/action and adventure movie. In later seasons more than in the first one, moral dilemmas and drama has become more aparent and I think that's more enjoyable.





Personally, I thought Season one was lame, and Season two was worse, but that it significantly improved in Season three. Because they got off their "pacing is for sissies" bus and decided to have things happen every episode instead of every 4 episodes and have characters meet and stick with one another for more than 5 minutes.

I enjoyed watching season 3 "Villains" a lot better mainly because of the drama and the pacing, it got a lot quicker and every episode a lot happened. Of course, the over-all story was less thought through so the plot went everywhere including character development, which is a shame, but it was an enjoyable ride watching every episode (as long as you don't look back), so I don't complain.

I liked "Fugitives" less than "Villains", but that was mainly because I can tolerate just so much guns, terrorists and "Guantanamo bay"-type of scenes. The last few episodes however, focussing on Sylar and the shape shifter were awesome and one of the best.


Also, the plot for Season 1 was cribbed from Watchmen, but lame. I don't know why people liked Season 1 when it was so obviously ripping things off. I thought the show got much better when they started writing more original stories.

I enjoyed the Watchmen plot, mainly because I hadn't read Watchmen when I say Heroes season 1, however I agree that the overall plot of Season 1 was moderate at best.

I don't watch Heroes to see people act normal or even realistically, yes I want them to act consistently (which some lack, like Nathan or Sylar), but I watch Heroes to see over the top complex plot hooks with a lot of drama, awesome puchlines, mean looks and super powers.

[Makensha]

I waited three seasons for a REAL superpower fight. The final episode of volume four closed the door (literally) on me ever watching Heroes again.

[Ichneumon]

I waited three seasons for a REAL superpower fight. The final episode of volume four closed the door (literally) on me ever watching Heroes again.

The ending of Season 1 had a fight between all the heroes vs Sylar. Season 2 had a short dual between Peter and the rest, given, most of it was telekinesis by Peter and telepathy). Season 3 had a short "super" fight between Sylar and Peter and a fight set in a possible future between some of the bad guys of Pinehearst vs Peter and Sylar, which had multiple abilities and lasted a few minutes (or maybe just a minute, don't really remember that well). You can't expect them to do something with money they don't have.

[Makensha]

The ending of Season 1 had a fight between all the heroes vs Sylar. Season 2 had a short dual between Peter and the rest, given, most of it was telekinesis by Peter and telepathy). Season 3 had a short "super" fight between Sylar and Peter and a fight set in a possible future between some of the bad guys of Pinehearst vs Peter and Sylar, which had multiple abilities and lasted a few minutes (or maybe just a minute, don't really remember that well). You can't expect them to do something with money they don't have.

That's true, but it took me a long time to really realize that.

[Ichneumon]

That's true, but it took me a long time to really realize that.

I know, because what people really want is not a show off between powered indivuduals, they want a Dragonball Z light show with explosions and massive area damage, which might be realistic when it concerns a superhero movie like SPiderman, X-men or The Dark Knight, but is highly unrealistic when these expectations are applied to a television series.

[afroakuma]

I know, because what people really want is not a show off between powered indivuduals, they want a Dragonball Z light show with explosions and massive area damage, which might be realistic when it concerns a superhero movie like SPiderman, X-men or The Dark Knight, but is highly unrealistic when these expectations are applied to a television series.

I disagree. People understand and like that it's a character-driven show, but they're sick of coconut superpowers. The Season 1 end fight was lame beyond reason because with the entire Heroes cast together for the first time, they did practically nothing. This was after the "Save the Cheerleader" letdown.

What people want is for the climactic battle to be just that. Consider: Niki's power requires little in the line of special effects; ditto Matt Parkman's. HRG can only shoot, Claire can just keep on coming with her wounds healing offscreen. Hiro's teleportation effect isn't really costly either. Peter and Sylar needed to show off their powerhouse capabilities, and the other Heroes needed to do something beyond "Hi, go die somehow." I personally wasn't looking for explosions and massive area damage, but having the heroes actually play a role in a final battle, as opposed to a 30-second curbstomp, would have been epic.

The nice thing about television is that you can shift your budget around somewhat. They were given a wildly expanded budget for Season 3 and still managed to botch things. By refusing to acknowledge the expression of concept that the audience both expects and wants, they're letting us down. And they should really know better.

[averagejoe]

Also, the plot for Season 1 was cribbed from Watchmen, but lame. I don't know why people liked Season 1 when it was so obviously ripping things off. I thought the show got much better when they started writing more original stories.

It's because the writing itself started going downhill. (And by "downhill" I mean "plummeted from a cliff.) Even if the story was more original, a lot of the writing was... stupid.

I'm really not sure where you're getting the "more original" thing either. Ignoring for a moment that I don't see how originality is in and of itself desirable, and ignoring that everyone has pretty much been talking about presentation and not story, the latter seasons were basically one big comic/drama cliche after another. And not even the good cliches.

[thegurullamen]

I personally wasn't looking for explosions and massive area damage, but having the heroes actually play a role in a final battle, as opposed to a 30-second curbstomp, would have been epic.

The nice thing about television is that you can shift your budget around somewhat. They were given a wildly expanded budget for Season 3 and still managed to botch things.

I was genuinely surprised when they Coconutted the third season finale. I assumed bigger budget meant better powers, which it did, but not for the finale? WTF.

As for Kirby Plaza, logic dictated it was always going to be Peter versus Sylar with Hiro making an appearance while everyone watched from the sidelines. It couldn't have been any other way: Sylar was too telekinetic to worry about the regenerative cheerleader, bullets, passive mind reading (it would have been laughter or "Ow."), or strong woman. DL could have done something except for the gunshot wound from the previous episode, but aside from that, impotence, thy name is second stingers.

As for the fight itself, it all came down to who won the quick draw. Whoever gained the advantage could push it forever. They were both just that powerful. I knew that going in which is why I didn't see the beatdown as a disappointment. I felt it a fitting ending (and a little cathartic.)

Season two is as everyone says: needless powerups, snail pacing, character assassination, retcons and Idiots Balls. Oh, God, the many, many IDIOT BALLS.

Season Volume three is the definition of Aborted Arc. check out the Tropes page. It's pretty appalling. It was also a slow whitewash of season two. Not many season two characters, plot points, or established facts made it through season three.

Volume four was a bland attempt to recapture the magic of a consistent plot. It did...marginally worse than average there. The characters were still wrecked husks, ready to change as the plot demanded. After Vol. 2 and 3, it was hard to know what, if anything, could be trusted from ep to ep, so some of us trusted nothing.

And then Cold Snap. Oh, Cold Snap. It was like finding a verdant oasis in the middle of an alkali wasteland. It was everything you'd want in a season four episode. It was fun, with impact and heart--it was good and damn it all, that's what matters.

Sadly, that didn't hold. Things fell back into their old patterns. Then weird things happened: the writers were told to pander to the Sylar fanboys and fangirls. Even more character assassination albeit more subtle, more retcons albeit more subtle. By the time the climax rolled around, the plot was secondary to a botched character examination. Do the coconut, then fade.

As for why people like it: the first season was funny, had heart, sacrifice (the grit refers to the Anyone Can Die episodes, of which there were several and unlike later seasons, death meant something) and a decent overall arc which was new to some of us coming off of episodic content like sitcoms. It was new, geeky and fun.

[Harr]

I'm really not sure where you're getting the "more original" thing either. Ignoring for a moment that I don't see how originality is in and of itself desirable, and ignoring that everyone has pretty much been talking about presentation and not story, the latter seasons were basically one big comic/drama cliche after another. And not even the good cliches.

Yeh, I agree completely... I can't even recall most of season 3 since I was banging my head against the wall repeatedly while I saw it... I just remember my general reaction being one of repeated "I can't believe they're doing THAT now".

Hiro and Ando were by far the worst offenders though... Hiro and Ando must stop the wedding! ... Hiro's a kid trapped in an adult's body! ... Hiro and Ando look after a wacky baby! ... It was like digging through the bargain bin at the video rental store.

And Claire's storylines... ...you know what, I don't even wanna think about it... it hurts.

[thegurullamen]

Hiro and Ando were by far the worst offenders though... Hiro and Ando must stop the wedding! ... Hiro's a kid trapped in an adult's body! ... Hiro and Ando look after a wacky baby! ... It was like digging through the bargain bin at the video rental store.

You know, I'm not sure if they covered it or not, but what was the point of that wedding thing? I really don't remember how it was introduced or why it was important. Did they stop it? Was there an effect? Why...no, no followup--just why?

[Vic_Sage]

You know, I'm not sure if they covered it or not, but what was the point of that wedding thing? I really don't remember how it was introduced or why it was important. Did they stop it? Was there an effect? Why...no, no followup--just why?
It had nothing to do with nothing.

And I'm still mad they killed Daphne, who was one of the few characters I could actually still stand.

[Dienekes]

It's one of the greatest unintentionally funny shows left?

That's it really, well that's why I watch it.

[Lamech]

I think that its rather good, on the whole. The first season was good.
The second season: The whole Sylar+mexicans (forgot there names) arc... err... they really should have had Sylar just walk out of a hospital; the guy took a leathal dose of sedatives, faked death, and has TK (stops bleeding); more than enough things to have him survive. The other parts where okay; I thought it the trickery and subterfuge was nice, if different. Although the disappearing girlfriend...(I hope she comes back as some horrible monster possesed/ghost lady.) Also the healing blood was bad; I would have retconned explained it as heals living or barely living, but not dead.

Volume three: Idiot balls galore. WTF moon. I kind of assumed that Mohinder had his personality changed by his new power. Niki did get that magic tattoo so it most certainly causes personality change. They probably could have showed Sylar was in fact a psychopath with out redeeming qualities a better way... I do think it was valuable to show that Sylar was NOT compelled to kill people by his hunger which they did nicely. (He doesn't need to kill for power.) This was probably the worst... also I really liked Elle.

Volume four: Really, I mean really people? Is there a reason you didn't just kill the government agents at the start? It would go like this: Daphene slits everyone's throats. The end. And working with Sylar is a bad idea. This [season] was pretty good actually. And I really don't see how they could have done a better job with the super fight. It would have been Peter touching Sylar, and Sylar taking Nathan out the window after zapping a couple times. I don't think it would have been as cool. Finally I thought for sure (dead) Nathan was going to be disintegrated by Sylar.

[Harr]

It had nothing to do with nothing.

And I'm still mad they killed Daphne, who was one of the few characters I could actually still stand.

Yep the killing off of both Elle and Daphne - both of whom were female characters that were actually interesting - so that Claire could get more pouty-time with Bennet and give a big repeat of the entire daddy-plot that was supposed to have been resolved in season one, was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me.

Which is not to say I won't watch the new season... god help me, I probably will the first few chapters at least. Especially now that I've heard that they have

the guy that did T-Bag from Prison Break coming in as a major villain

, but I will be looking for reasons to bail out soon as I can.

[thegurullamen]

It had nothing to do with nothing.

And I'm still mad they killed Daphne, who was one of the few characters I could actually still stand.

Yeah, but the way they did it was done incredibly well. I'm fine with it just because of that. The same goes for Tracy, though of course, being a Larter character, it didn't stick. Woman's more indestructible than Claire.
As for Elle (whom someone else brought up), the actress is good but she suffered from the same floating personality problems as everyone else. Her motives weren't grounded in her experiences for the most part and the ones that were (be good to prove that I'm not like my father) weren't explored long enough or deeply enough before they fell to the wayside for some stupid plot excursion. (S&M therapy with Sylar, anyone?)

[pita]

I know, because what people really want is not a show off between powered indivuduals, they want a Dragonball Z light show with explosions and massive area damage, which might be realistic when it concerns a superhero movie like SPiderman, X-men or The Dark Knight, but is highly unrealistic when these expectations are applied to a television series.

Like The Dark Knight?
Just saying.
It would have been nice to have gotten a show off between two powered individuals. The problem is that in real life you don't get DBZ fights. If somebody gets a fireball through the gut, they tend to lose, while in DBZ that gives them another seven episodes to rant at how much they'll defeat their enemy. Maybe we could have found something in the middle, but the battle behind closed doors in season 4 was beyond cheesy.

[KnightDisciple]

Dang it. I just saw a preview clip...

Ray Park will be a villain in the next season of Heroes. Who uses khukris at super-speed.

RAY PARK, dang it!

Stupid Heroes, I'd thought for sure I could quit you!:smallsigh::smallannoyed:

[pita]

It had nothing to do with nothing.

And I'm still mad they killed Daphne, who was one of the few characters I could actually still stand.

I hated Daphne and wanted her to die. Her death wasn't soon enough.
Now if they can kill off Ando, Peter, Parkman, Sylar (who is awesome but enough is enough, gentlemen), and Claire, I'd be happy.

[thegurullamen]

I hated Daphne and wanted her to die. Her death wasn't soon enough.
Now if they can kill off Ando, Peter, Parkman, Sylar (who is awesome but enough is enough, gentlemen), and Claire, I'd be happy.

Your Heroes dream team is Tracy, Mohinder, Hiro, Nathan and HRG? Well, I suppose if they made Nathan the high powered and suave politico he once was and gave Mohinder back some of his season one humanity, that would be cool. Hiro would be forever tainted by Ando's death, though, ruining much of his charm.

[Vic_Sage]

Dang it. I just saw a preview clip...

Ray Park will be a villain in the next season of Heroes. Who uses khukris at super-speed.

RAY PARK, dang it!

Stupid Heroes, I'd thought for sure I could quit you!:smallsigh::smallannoyed:
**** now I'm interested again. But he'll most likely end up lie all the villains *Especially Knox and Flint* so far in heroes, impressive introduction and everything else afterwords is just disappointment.

[Dienekes]

Anyone else hoping they finally kill of Claire just to see what Noah will do?

And because Claire's annoying of course.

[Ichneumon]

Like The Dark Knight?
Just saying.

Yes, there were some hefty explosions in TDK,


Yep the killing off of both Elle and Daphne - both of whom were female characters that were actually interesting - so that Claire could get more pouty-time with Bennet and give a big repeat of the entire daddy-plot that was supposed to have been resolved in season one, was pretty much the nail in the coffin for me.

I hoped the'd Claire off at the beginning of Season 3 Villains when seeing spoilers of Sylar taking her ability.

[kpenguin]

You know, sometimes it feels like 24 has a better special effects budget than Heroes.

[Ichneumon]

You know, sometimes it feels like 24 has a better special effects budget than Heroes.

Do we have any figures on how big the special effects budget is of heroes compared to that of other tv series?