Final Fantasy VII, was this ever explained?

[Kris Strife]

Due to my disks getting scratched up, my game would never load the Temple of the Ancients, so I could never beat it before, so I'm now playing through again with the PSP download, and I was wondering if there was ever an explination given for why Sephiroth could control Cloud and what the heck the guys in the blackhoods were? Was the cause of GeoStigma ever explained in Advent Children Complete? The what exactly caused it and who contracted it parts.

Personally, I have a theory behind those. Sephiroth was, to my understanding, made by taking Jenova cells and combining them with the humans of that world, to produce a cross breed, hence his ridiculous power and why he didn't start to break down after he got the wings, unlike Genesis and Angeal.

Most Soldiers were Humans injected with Jenova Cells and Mako, and Shinra was going to change that to Sephiroth Cells and Mako instead to see if that would be more effective, with Cloud and Zack as two of the first test subjects. Zack's system was immune because of prior SOLDIER enhancements, and Cloud's didn't work because of 'Mako Sensitivty'. I think that Shinra did continue to use S-Cells to make future SOLDIERs and that those hooded worshipers (and perhaps the three brothers from AC) were SOLDIERs made with S-Cells. Because Sephiroth was closer to a true whatever the hell Jenova was, he could control those injected with S-cells, with Cloud not being a mindless puppet like the hooded freaks because his treatment failed due to mako sensitivty, but he still had enough S-Cells to possibly enhance him (though how much that was needed considering he took a Masamune to the gut and still through Sephiroth down a reactor as a regular human I don't know) and to allow Sephiroth control over him.

I believe GeoStigma also has to due with S and J cells, mainly that those who had received them, or the children of those who had were the ones who contracted it, and that the three brothers were able to control the children because of those same cells.

Any thoughts? Was any of this ever explained and if so, how close was I to the official explination? I've beaten Crisis Core and watched regular Advent Children (haven't seen Complete anywhere yet), and gotten to the Temple of the Ancients in the origional game.

[Wraith]

You're not a million miles away. I won't spoiler it because, quite frankly, I think either anyone who reads this will already know or doesn't understand it either; I had to have it explained to me, also :smalltongue:

Ordinary SOLDIERs are people that have Jenova cells injected into them and are showered with Mako in order to be given the strength and endurence of the alien. In fact the Mako shower is a ruse - the actual power comes from the cells alone.
Sephiroth was created by having Jenova cells implanted into him while still in the womb of his birth mother, Lucrezia, by Professor Hojo. He essentially grew up with Jenova as part of his very being, which is why he was so incredibly powerful even compared to other SOLDIER who merely have it added on later in life.
Cloud was actually killed - or, at least, mortally wounded - '5 years ago' at Nibelheim, and his body was recovered by Professor Hojo and used as a sort of culture in order to make a clone of Sephiroth. You can see this is you ever go back to the cellar in the Nibelheim Mansion during the final disk of the game, and it explains why Sephiroth can control Cloud; through the influence of Jenova cells making up large parts of bother their bodies and psyche, and that Seph was the 'original'.
The guys in black cloaks are other attempts at making clones of Sephiroth that 'failed'. Unlike Cloud, they went utterly insane and were crippled by the monstrous DNA inside of them. This explains why they do nothing but gibber when you talk to them in the game, and also how Sephiroth can control them. Again, they're all linked by Jenova DNA and by the fact that Sephiroth is their original 'template'.

Geostigma is something slightly different, though it's based on the Jenova DNA also. After her/it's deat, Jenova cells somehow 'infected' ordinary people making them sick and killing them so that when they went to the lifestream, these little tiny pieces of Jenova went with them with the ultimate intention of Jenova completely 'infecting' the planet from within and killing it so that she/it could be reborn
Kadaj and his gang have control over the Geostigma because they too are made up of Jenova cells like Sephiroth. Like calls to like, so to speak.

Hope that helps :smallsmile:

[Kris Strife]

I thought Angeal or Genesis was made by injecting cells prior to birth?

And Cloud actually killed Sepiroth prior to his SOLDIER treatment? Does that qualify him as a Badass Normal? And I think Mako does give people some additional power. In Dissidia, the Advent Children Cloud's EX mode is 'The Power of Mako' and his whole torso seems to glow with it.

[Wraith]

I haven't played Crisis Core, so unfortunately my knowledge of Angeal and Genesis is non-existent. I daresay the information you're after is somewhere on Wikipedia, but as far as I know that's the truth as of FFVII and Advent Children.

And yes, Cloud is pretty badass normal even before he was turned into a Sephiroth clone (technically, he NEVER gets the SOLDIER treatment. He's a normal SHINRA guard who gets infused with Jenova DNA to make him a clone of Sephiroth, and then escapes into Midgar after Zach gets him to safety).

It's debatable as to whether or not he is anything like the original Cloud, though - there's a conversation in Disk 2 where he argues whether or not he is even the same person as the kid who rescued Tifa from the Reactor, so much he has changed and been changed over the years since.

EDIT: Wikipedia strikes!

Genesis is infused with the cells of Gillian - Angeal's mother - who had been infused with Jenova cells/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_Final_Fantasy_VII#Genesis)

So Angeal gets Jenova DNA by inheriting it from his mother, and Genesis get's 'second hand' Jenova DNA rather than the pure stuff, which possibly accounts for the 'mutation' that made them so different to Sephiroth, who got it directly.

[Kris Strife]

But... Genesis was created first... <.<

And one thing I've seen lately is that Tifa actually died there too, was she a clone in the game as well?

Also, I doubt he would technically be considered a Sephiroth clone, due to their drastically different appearances, the only thing that we know for certain is determined by genetics, and he still has his origional appearance... Would it be turned into a clone, or given gene therapy to give him the physical abilities?

Also, why couldn't the three control in in Advent Children? Were they not strong enough in the Jenova? Had Cloud simply become too powerful for them to manipulate him like Sephiroth could?

Also, was anything along the lines of 'How you were born, and what you are isn't important, its what you do that deterimes who you are' ever spoken in the game?

[Nero24200]

I beleive Cloud (as played) is ment to be a collection of different experiments, but still Cloud (as the boy form the flashbacks) to an extent since the majority of the experiment's physical body consists of Cloud (as the boy from the flashbacks).

As for Tifa, while she is wounded theres nothing that says she actually died. Upon seeing the cut-scene my first thougth never went to "she died", more like she was just badly wounded.

Though I wouldn't think too much of the Advent Children and Crisis Core stuff too much with relation to the origonal story, both were written long after it came out. Personally, that's partly why I dislike Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberous, I felt that both were just add-ons really, and did nothing to enchance it.

[Kris Strife]

I beleive Cloud (as played) is ment to be a collection of different experiments, but still Cloud (as the boy form the flashbacks) to an extent since the majority of the experiment's physical body consists of Cloud (as the boy from the flashbacks).

As for Tifa, while she is wounded theres nothing that says she actually died. Upon seeing the cut-scene my first thougth never went to "she died", more like she was just badly wounded.

Though I wouldn't think too much of the Advent Children and Crisis Core stuff too much with relation to the origonal story, both were written long after it came out. Personally, that's partly why I dislike Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberous, I felt that both were just add-ons really, and did nothing to enchance it.

I thought the same about Tifa myself, its just some things I've seen recently on other boards led me to believe that. And maybe rather than a Sephiroth clone, he's closer to the 6000000 Gil Man? They rebuilt the damaged and broken parts of his body with S-Cell tissue?

[littlebottom]

hehe, i love all this stuff, infact my life is pretty much devoted to FF7 in all its forms.

im on a psp with limited characters, so ill make this quick.

super high/extended Mako exposion is the cause of the wings. its "proberbly" due to clouds sensitivity he doesnt have one himself.

argh ill finish this post tomorrow on my computer...

[Player_Zero]

Sephiroth couldn't control Cloud. Jenova did that.

The guys in black hoods were failed Sephiroth clones. SOLDIERs with Jenova cells.

The cause of the geostigma was because Jenova had tainted the lifestream when her avatar, Sephiroth, died.

[JadedDM]

Tifa didn't die. I remember there's one point you can go to her house and find a letter that explains her martial arts instructor found her near death and saved her.

As for Advent Children and Crisis Core, there is so much retconning going on there I can't even keep track of it anymore.

[littlebottom]

well, anyway, the story might seem confusing, but i feel if you break it down a bit into its seperate parts, it makes more sense.

Sephiroth: was born as a direct result of experiments hojo had made, lucrecia was the mother (the ACTUAL physical mother) he grew up being awesome and great, made his way to first class in no time, then he did this and that in soldier (unimportant really) untill he found out about the experiments that made him, he then went into the shinra mansion basement to read up as much as he could about jenova, and the experiments that made him, this made him realize what he was, the son of a "god" that fell from the skies mellenia ago. this made him go crazy with power (atleast it seemed as such to others), he burns down nibelheim, and makes his way to the reactor. he kills Tifas father, and slashes Tifa across the stomoch, almost killing her, *cutscene where he finds jenova* zack rushes in, and fights sephiroth, but loses, and is sent flying backwards, cloud comes in and takes zacks sword, and stabs sephiroth who was unaware of his presence, he then skewars cloud and lifts him up, cloud pulls himself allong the sword till his feet touch the ground then chucks sephiroth off the platform into the mako below. sephiroth now floats in the life stream with jenovas head.(while zack and cloud are experimented on)

repeat this process in your mind for most characters, and most of the story comes togeather and you will realise interlinking storys yet their effects seperately on each character and such.

yes, i know, i only did up to the end of crisis core for sephiroth, i couldnt be bothered to do the rest :smallsmile:

[Closet_Skeleton]

I haven't even played this game, but supposedly some people are called Sephiroth "clones" but aren't clones in any real world sense what so ever. The word is just being used weirdly.

[NeoVid]

I thought the explanation for the Geostigma was actually pretty simple: Jenova's lifeforce got into the Lifestream when it was killed, and was essentially an infection, as Jenova is an incompatible alien being.

[Kris Strife]

I was wondering if the people who contracted it had been exposed to J or S cells somehow, seemed strange that regular people would contract it.

[Atelm]

I haven't even played this game, but supposedly some people are called Sephiroth "clones" but aren't clones in any real world sense what so ever. The word is just being used weirdly.

This, in the original Japanese version the term used wasn't clone at all.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sephiroth_Clones


"Clone" is in fact a misnomer. Sephiroth Clones are not genetic copies of Sephiroth, but rather those who carry the cells of Jenova, which Sephiroth exerts his will through to use the "clones" as his puppets.

In the original Japanese script, they were not referred to as clones at all, but as Sephiroth Copies.