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View Full Version : [3.5, Savage Species/MM3]Converting the Blackscale Lizardfolk



Tyrael
2009-09-14, 11:20 AM
Hey, folks. I just recently joined a PbP and I'm looking into the possibility of playing a Blackscale Lizardfolk (MM3). Unfortunately, MM3 doesn't provide any info for using them as characters. I hear Savage Species is supposed to be the guidebook on how to do that, but so help me, it's super complicated, at least at first glance. Hence, I come to all of you.

If converting the BSLF (heh, odd acronym) into a PC or into a racial template class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031114a), how would you go about it?

I've found a couple (http://www.enworld.org/forum/3016929-post3.html) posts (http://www.enworld.org/forum/2019682-post3.html) that attempt to do it on ENworld. The first one seems a little steep at LA+3 and 4 HD, but the second one doesn't seem to have either HD or LA.

What do you guys think?

Gnorman
2009-09-14, 05:00 PM
I'd give it a flat +3 LA (and likely even reduce it to +2) and not worry about the racial hit dice.

The BSLF's bonuses break down into just this: Large Size. +8 STR, +4 CON, -2 INT, -4 CHA. Resistance to acid 5. +7 NA. +4 to Swim, Balance, and Jump. Hold Breath. Natural claw and bite attacks.

To compare, the Half-Ogre in Savage Species is roughly the same, with +6 STR, -2 DEX, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA. +4 NA. And it's only LA +1. It doesn't have the other miscellaneous bonuses that BSLF has, but they're not that powerful to begin with.

+2 STR, DEX, CON, -2 CHA, +3 NA, +10 ft. speed, acid resistance, natural attacks, hold breath, and the skill bonuses combined might be worth another +2 LA.

It's kind of... LA +2.5, if that makes any sense?

Greymane
2009-09-14, 05:52 PM
Bear in mind, that the Half Ogre was updated in the Races of Destiny book, and made a LA +2. And rightly so, IMHO.

Gnorman
2009-09-14, 06:16 PM
Bear in mind, that the Half Ogre was updated in the Races of Destiny book, and made a LA +2. And rightly so, IMHO.

In this case, LA +3 and no racial HD would be sufficient for the BSLF.

Tyrael
2009-09-14, 06:37 PM
LA 2.5, huh?

Personally, the acid resistance 5 doesn't matter much to me. Could that be removed to bump it down to a flat LA+2?

Gnorman
2009-09-14, 07:08 PM
LA 2.5, huh?

Personally, the acid resistance 5 doesn't matter much to me. Could that be removed to bump it down to a flat LA+2?

Sorry, I made those comments without taking into account the Half-Ogre's update.

I'd say LA +3, but it's probably negotiable.

Tyrael
2009-09-14, 09:11 PM
Hmmm.

Alternately, I've always been a fan of the racial template class things in the first post.

How does something like this look?

{table]Template Level|Special
1st|+3 STR, +2 CON, -1 INT, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump
2nd|+3 STR, +2 CON, -1 INT, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump
3rd|+2 STR, Natural Armor +3, Hold Breath, Natural Attacks[/table]

So, you take this "class" for 3 levels (effectively removing those 3 levels from normal progression as per LA) and gain the benefits, with the balancing factor being that it doesn't provide HD, saves, or BAB as normal levels do?

Did I do that right? :smallsigh:

Gnorman
2009-09-14, 09:37 PM
Hmmm.

Alternately, I've always been a fan of the racial template class things in the first post.

How does something like this look?

{table]Template Level|Special
1st|+3 STR, +2 CON, -1 INT, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump
2nd|+3 STR, +2 CON, -1 INT, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump
3rd|+2 STR, Natural Armor +3, Hold Breath, Natural Attacks[/table]

So, you take this "class" for 3 levels (effectively removing those 3 levels from normal progression as per LA) and gain the benefits, with the balancing factor being that it doesn't provide HD, saves, or BAB as normal levels do?

Did I do that right? :smallsigh:

Looks good, but I'd consolidate the odd ability scores. +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 CHA at first level, +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA at second level, and +4 STR at third. Something like that. Odd increases are weird.

Tyrael
2009-09-14, 09:43 PM
Good point.

Like this?


{table]Template Level|Special
1st|+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump, Hold Breath, Natural Attacks
2nd|+2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, -2 CHA, Natural Armor +2, +2 to Swim/Balance/Jump
3rd|+4 STR, Natural Armor +3, Large Size[/table]

awa
2009-09-14, 11:47 PM
It looks like
a level adjustment by the book of between 3 and 5

1 unbalanced stats
1 natural armor
1 energy resistance

(i don't know what a black scales natural attacks do so discount those if need be)
1 multiple natural attacks?
1 damage greater then a d8 from natural attack

Now in my opinion the suggested level adjustment is usually to much
the best way and suggested way to see if its overpowered is to take the most closely related class and pair them up if a fight between the black scale lizard man with the level adjustment of 3 if hes stomped every time lower it if on the other hand he crushes his analog then hes two powerful

BooNL
2009-09-15, 08:26 AM
I can't advise you how to balance that racial class progression. I'd move the -2 INT from level 2 to 1 if I were you. If only to avoid weird skill/level numbers and explaining why your character would get dumber as he gets stronger.

paddyfool
2009-09-15, 08:35 AM
I agree with the revised stat boosts per level of the three level template.

I've a few doubts on size and special abilities, however.

On size: an LA +1 Large race is perhaps a little powerful. How about making it Medium with Powerful Build at first and Large at third?

On special abilities: I think it should get Natural Weapons at first level. I mean, it would clearly be born with them, whether or not it's full-sized. The skill increases could be bumped to 2nd and 3rd to compensate.