Trying to build the "Kamehameha"

[Korivan]

I'm sure this has been down before, and if anyone has some links to sites building this please direct me...But I'm looking for a SINGLE ray attack to do some SERIOUS business. I have thought of POLAR RAY, then use arcane thesis, Reserves of Strength, and theres a Ebrron spell that lets you take CON damage to boost caster level. Figure a level of Archmage for energy substitution so I'm not screwed when dealing with energy immune/resistant types. Throw in Incantrix and some metamagic feats and I think this should do...right?
levels 1-5 wiz/sorc
6-14 incantrix
15+ archmage

....or, is warlock the way to go to have a beam weapon type of attack...if so, how can I increase the damage output?

[woodenbandman]

A warlock can get 27d6 eldritch blasts but it's still rather underwhelming. Honestly this type of build is rather weak.

[Korivan]

A warlock can get 27d6 eldritch blasts but it's still rather underwhelming. Honestly this type of build is rather weak.

Which is exactly why i'd rather do it as a wizard. So I still have plenty of tricks up my sleave.

[taltamir]

Chi warrior... a new class based on warlock.

Frankly, kamehameha is totally unbalanced for a normal DnD party, and so is anything else DBZ... just make a DBZ world and create all new DBZ classes from scratch. This way you don't have gimped and sad versions of what you wanted. Yet maintain the party balance.

A party needs ONLY be balanced against ITSELF, not the average population of a race or even the world.

You could LITERALLY have a party of GODS or Demi-Gods (by the RAW!) who can cast wish without chance of corruption at will with no cost unlimited times per day (god ability) and other abilities of similar power... who work togther to fight ultra beings from the outer dimentions... demon princes, other gods, horrors that can even slay a god, etc... Just look at the epic handbook (which actually RECOMMENDS DMs allow their players to become gods after going epic).

Anyways. This is neither here nor there, I assume you don't want to play gods, but DBZ D20... there might ACTUALLY be a D20 DBZ system... god knows there is an "everything else" system.

[Jayngfet]

Celestial sorcerer lance. 1d8 per spell level and a 60ft line at the cost of a single feat means you can do some SERIOUS damage at low levels, not to mention it frees up spells known since you don't need to know as much offensive spells.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There was a feat somewhere or other which removed caps on level-based numbers, although IIRC it stunned you for a few rounds or did damage to you afterwords. We were playing with it to see how much damage output we could do. Scorching Ray was insane due to having 10+ rays instead of just 3, but the magic missile shotguns were scary too.

[Korivan]

Not too worried about being overpowered. The next group consists of gestalt, with one going slap happy with barbarion/fighter/frenzied beserker-attack/leap attack for 120+damage per hit. Cleric/monk/duskblade 3/something else to "I punched you with harm...deal with it." So going high and mighty aint no big deal.

[The Glyphstone]

There's always the Cindy build - a Wizard that abuses Metamagic cost reducers to deal thousands of damage with a ray attack. It involves Incantatrix, but beyond that I don't remember the specifics.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not too worried about being overpowered. The next group consists of gestalt, with one going slap happy with barbarion/fighter/frenzied beserker-attack/leap attack for 120+damage per hit. Cleric/monk/duskblade 3/something else to "I punched you with harm...deal with it." So going high and mighty aint no big deal.

Oh joy... a TPK in a can. Better have a way to Shut Down that guy if he ever fails his Will save to snap out before turning on his allies...

[Kurald Galain]

Honestly?

You should use the Major Image spell, because kamehameha (and all those other attacks) look very impressive, but rarely if every actually hurt someone... :smalltongue:

[taltamir]

Honestly?

You should use the Major Image spell, because kamehameha (and all those other attacks) look very impressive, but rarely if every actually hurt someone... :smalltongue:

thats actually canon... the fights in DBZ have energy attacks as forplay (unless attacking a vastly weaker opponent) with the real fighting being done as martial arts...

Monk / Psion varient with blasting ability, hast, and flight.

[Crow]

I don't think the King of Hawaii could do any of that stuff guys...

[taltamir]

I don't think the King of Hawaii could do any of that stuff guys...

sure he can, heck EVERYONE can:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KamehameHadoken

[Mushroom Ninja]

Channled pyroburst from phb2 charges sort of like a kamehamehadouken.

[SurlySeraph]

Oh joy... a TPK in a can. Better have a way to Shut Down that guy if he ever fails his Will save to snap out before turning on his allies...

Prepare Calm Emotions at least once per encounter you expect to have that day.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Basic Cindy works. You add Arcane Thesis, Incantrix 10, and a bunch of +0 metamagic feats to Orb of Fire to deal(IIRC) 390-510 damage and 2 negative levels out of a 4th level slot.

[Mikeavelli]

There's always the Cindy build - a Wizard that abuses Metamagic cost reducers to deal thousands of damage with a ray attack. It involves Incantatrix, but beyond that I don't remember the specifics.

He never actually posted the Cindy build, just bragged about what it was capable of doing.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'll assume nobody cares about the actual ki attack they have in PHB II right? Yeah I thought so...

Anyways I've been giving a blow things the frak up with massive magic attacks build some thought for awhile. Now while Polar Ray makes some thematic sense its too high in spell level. Incantrix and Arcane Thesis only buy you a reduction of two, and you don't have more then one level to burn with Polar Ray. You've got better bets out there, like the similar base damage Orb of Acid/Fire/Etc series from CA which ignores spell resistance and includes a side effect.

Anyways Feats to make this work: Arcane Thesis, Energy Substitution (sonic preferred), Empower, Maximize, Split Ray, Twin Spell

With Incantrix 10 this works out to a so help me, Spell level +3 on whatever you choose Arcane Thesis for without using any -1 spell level cheese. Thus far I'm not sure I've found something that beats Scorching Ray for absolute damage:

(4*6)4*1.5*2= 288 damage, spread across 8 ranged touch attacks.

However for two higher spell levels you can use an Orb of X for:

(15*6)1.5*2= 270 damage across 2 ranged touch attacks, ignores spell resistance and has a side effect. And one less feat in the combo.

Of course half (I believe) the feats are bonus ones with Incantrix, plus one from your Wizard. So there's a bit left over to use on other stuff. Recommend Heighten Spell if you pump something below 4th level to beat annoying globes and things. Also adding a Rod of Metamagic or two for no adjustment powering up three times a a day.

And I'm only using the SRD with three books. I'm sure there's more ways to add damage to a spell with increasing amounts of cheese.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He never actually posted the Cindy build, just bragged about what it was capable of doing.It's been posted a couple times, and the basics are refigurable with a bit of effort. You want Empower, Maximize, Twin, Split Ray, Energy Admixture. All of those are at -2 to the effective spell level. AFB, but that's + 7-8 IIRC. So you need 7-8 +0 metamagic feats. Chaos Shuffle gets you those just from being an Elf. You'll also want Quicken, so you can do it twice per round, and Extend/Persist so you can survive anything and abuse Incantrix 2 and 4. He also took Fell Drain, but I view it as unnecessary, you can kill anything killable via HP anyways and just spend the feat on something useful(like Arcane Thesis:Enervation). Then become immortal and go to town.

[Soras Teva Gee]

It's been posted a couple times, and the basics are refigurable with a bit of effort. You want Empower, Maximize, Twin, Split Ray, Energy Admixture. All of those are at -2 to the effective spell level. AFB, but that's + 7-8 IIRC. So you need 7-8 +0 metamagic feats. Chaos Shuffle gets you those just from being an Elf. You'll also want Quicken, so you can do it twice per round, and Extend/Persist so you can survive anything and abuse Incantrix 2 and 4. He also took Fell Drain, but I view it as unnecessary, you can kill anything killable via HP anyways and just spend the feat on something useful(like Arcane Thesis:Enervation). Then become immortal and go to town.

And here I thought Energy Admixture just split the damage between two types so adding another x2 oye. That said while I love seeing these horrendous damage spells the whole negative level adjustment spell thing is frankly horrible cheese unless there's somewhere implicitly allowing it I've not heard about.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

And here I thought Energy Admixture just split the damage between two types so adding another x2 oye. That said while I love seeing these horrendous damage spells the whole negative level adjustment spell thing is frankly horrible cheese unless there's somewhere implicitly allowing it I've not heard about.Arcane Thesis. They even errata'd it in a way that specifically allowed negative adjustments as long as the spell remained it's base spell level or higher.

[Korivan]

I'll assume nobody cares about the actual ki attack they have in PHB II right? Yeah I thought so...

Anyways I've been giving a blow things the frak up with massive magic attacks build some thought for awhile. Now while Polar Ray makes some thematic sense its too high in spell level. Incantrix and Arcane Thesis only buy you a reduction of two, and you don't have more then one level to burn with Polar Ray. You've got better bets out there, like the similar base damage Orb of Acid/Fire/Etc series from CA which ignores spell resistance and includes a side effect.

Anyways Feats to make this work: Arcane Thesis, Energy Substitution (sonic preferred), Empower, Maximize, Split Ray, Twin Spell

With Incantrix 10 this works out to a so help me, Spell level +3 on whatever you choose Arcane Thesis for without using any -1 spell level cheese. Thus far I'm not sure I've found something that beats Scorching Ray for absolute damage:

(4*6)4*1.5*2= 288 damage, spread across 8 ranged touch attacks.

However for two higher spell levels you can use an Orb of X for:

(15*6)1.5*2= 270 damage across 2 ranged touch attacks, ignores spell resistance and has a side effect. And one less feat in the combo.

Of course half (I believe) the feats are bonus ones with Incantrix, plus one from your Wizard. So there's a bit left over to use on other stuff. Recommend Heighten Spell if you pump something below 4th level to beat annoying globes and things. Also adding a Rod of Metamagic or two for no adjustment powering up three times a a day.

And I'm only using the SRD with three books. I'm sure there's more ways to add damage to a spell with increasing amounts of cheese.

Finally, some good posts. Yes, I know damage spells are weak compared to whatever else a wizard can do...I DON'T CARE. I didn't ask to have 15 posts of "Its a bad idea, ask something else". But I always play the buffer/debuffer/crowd controll/summoner types of wizards, and I wanted something else, just for sheer difference. My biggest motto in life is "variety is the spice of life." True, Polor Ray is too high level, which is exactly why I came to you guys. Hopeing to find a better way. So far, seems orbs is the way to go. Seems fair. Thank you. So before I get anymore Evocation bashers, let me just say..."Yes, kamehameha isn't effective because it only targets ONE person, only deals damage which can be affected by SR, energy resistance/immunities, yes, there's better things to do with my actions..." Big deal.

[lsfreak]

-snip-

Erm... huh? Not one post suggested that "you're doing it wrong." There were a number of posts poking fun at the idea (using illusions), but nothing saying you're doing it wrong.

Note that the build as posted in this thread partially hinges on your DM ruling that Orbs can be affected by Split Ray. They're essentially rays, but they're not actually listed as rays, so be sure of how your DM rules. Even without that, it's a lot of damage.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

They are NOT rays!!!

[Kylarra]

For a less cheesy blaster that's playable in lower powered games, there is always psionics.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Finally, some good posts. Yes, I know damage spells are weak compared to whatever else a wizard can do...I DON'T CARE. I didn't ask to have 15 posts of "Its a bad idea, ask something else". But I always play the buffer/debuffer/crowd controll/summoner types of wizards, and I wanted something else, just for sheer difference. My biggest motto in life is "variety is the spice of life." True, Polor Ray is too high level, which is exactly why I came to you guys. Hopeing to find a better way. So far, seems orbs is the way to go. Seems fair. Thank you. So before I get anymore Evocation bashers, let me just say..."Yes, kamehameha isn't effective because it only targets ONE person, only deals damage which can be affected by SR, energy resistance/immunities, yes, there's better things to do with my actions..." Big deal.That's the joy of Orbs. You can grab multiple energy types(admixture) or just Scorching Spell, you ignore SR, and with this build you're launching about 8 of them. Per round. Each one killing something.

[Fishy]

I thought Cindy was the Beholder Mage who ate the brains of solars?

[Geddoe]

I think it works best as disintigrate(either psionic or arcane), with users being gishes who use ki(psionics or magic) to power themselves up.

The thing about Disintigrate is that it either does a ton of damage, and wipes the enemy out of existence(against weaker enemies) or does almost nothing, just like the Kamehameha.