Ah! A theory about the Snarl and the "rift-world" [spoilers]

[Enlong]

So, after a bit of thought, I've come up with an idea that may explain what Blackwing saw in the Rift.

My theory is simply this: The Snarl does not exist anymore.

Oh sure, it was alive and well during Soon's time; the claw from the rifts that killed Soon's wife and Kraagor are proof enough of that. The strange thing is that we haven't seen a single claw since then; even at the dangerously huge Sapphire rift. Nothing happened when the prisoners were about to be thrown in or when Blackwing got close enough to stare inside. And isn't it odd that the only thing that's supposed to be inside the rift was nowhere to be seen?

But think about what The Snarl is. A monster made out of a tangled knot of the strings of creation used to make the first world. What would happen if the knot was given time to... untangle?

I think that, over time, starting perhaps even from when it was first imprisoned, The Snarl began to loosen; the knots and tangles that made up its being began to come undone and free longer and longer strands of creation string.

By the time of Soon, the claws that sliced a world apart in scant minutes were weak enough to be fought off temporarily by two warriors (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). And by the current day, the Snarl has completely undone itself, and the strands of creation within the rift that made up its being have fallen into their intended shape: A world. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)

What say you?

[Silverraptor]

So, after a bit of thought, I've come up with an idea that may explain what Blackwing saw in the Rift.

My theory is simply this: The Snarl does not exist anymore.

Oh sure, it was alive and well during Soon's time; the claw from the rifts that killed Soon's wife and Kraagor are proof enough of that. The strange thing is that we haven't seen a single claw since then; even at the dangerously huge Sapphire rift. Nothing happened when the prisoners were about to be thrown in or when Blackwing got close enough to stare inside. And isn't it odd that the only thing that's supposed to be inside the rift was nowhere to be seen?

But think about what The Snarl is. A monster made out of a tangled knot of the strings of creation used to make the first world. What would happen if the knot was given time to... untangle?

I think that, over time, starting perhaps even from when it was first imprisoned, The Snarl began to loosen; the knots and tangles that made up its being began to come undone and free longer and longer strands of creation string.

By the time of Soon, the claws that sliced a world apart in a few hours were weak enough to be fought off temporarily by two warriors (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). And by the current day, the Snarl has completely undone itself, and the strands of creation within the rift that made up its being have fallen into their intended shape: A world. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html)

What say you?

I say this has some merit.

[DBJack]

Mmm, maybe. I like the idea, but then it disrupts the mystery and epicness of the rifts (there wouldn't be any danger exploring the rifts). Another aspect of it is that the snarl was still tangled for the, what, 2000+ years? that world 2.0 has been out. Decades before the adventures in Dorukan's dungeon, the snarl attacked Soon's wife. It hasn't been too long since then. I dunno, but after ages of being snarled up at the first signs of freedom through the rifts the snarl untangles? It's a nifty idea, but I don't think it'll pan out this way

[Enlong]

Mmm, maybe. I like the idea, but then it disrupts the mystery and epicness of the rifts (there wouldn't be any danger exploring the rifts). Another aspect of it is that the snarl was still tangled for the, what, 2000+ years? that world 2.0 has been out. Decades before the adventures in Dorukan's dungeon, the snarl attacked Soon's wife. It hasn't been too long since then. I dunno, but after ages of being snarled up at the first signs of freedom through the rifts the snarl untangles? It's a nifty idea, but I don't think it'll pan out this way
No, I don't think it suddenly started unravelling after Soon's time. Rather it's been a slow and steady process, perhaps starting at its original imprisonment, with the unraveling reducing the Snarl's power as its being leaves it. Would the same Snarl that tore creation apart in "twenty-seven minutes" have been delayed in the slightest by Kraagor and soon (and only manage to kill one)? I don't think so. By that time, it had already weakened significantly. And by now (long enough after Soon's quest [and again trapped entirely in the void] for Soon's grandson to be 80+ years old), it's finally done.

And why wouldn't it be an interesting twist? Imagine the Order actually failing at Kraagor's gate, only for the Snarl to not appear. Imagine Redcloak's reaction when he finds out that The Plan has been all for nothing, that the Dark One's weapon is no longer there. Imagine Xykon's reaction when he finds out that Redcloak's led him all this way for no payoff.

[Lycan 01]

This idea actually makes some sense... :smallconfused:

[David Argall]

The main problem is that this cuts short the drama. Learning this, the party can just kick back and let Xykon take over the last gate. And the Dark One can have the gate which imprisons...nothing.
Now we can still have some plot possibilities, but it is something of a letdown to be saving the world, and now you are just trying to kill Xykon. A worthy goal to be sure, but still just small change compared to saving the world.

[Enlong]

The main problem is that this cuts short the drama. Learning this, the party can just kick back and let Xykon take over the last gate. And the Dark One can have the gate which imprisons...nothing.
Now we can still have some plot possibilities, but it is something of a letdown to be saving the world, and now you are just trying to kill Xykon. A worthy goal to be sure, but still just small change compared to saving the world.

Ah, but how will Xykon react when he finds out that there is no "insta-take-over-the-world weapon" waiting for him, like Redcloak has told him there will? As anyone who's read Start of Darkness can tell me, the answer is "very poorly". He will be ticked. And trust me, a severely ticked epic-level sorcerer lich with an ever-growing army of the undead is a world-endangering threat in his own right.
And think of the drama for Redcloak. I daresay the revelation would break him. If he has time before Xykon turns on him.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Drama or no, and Xykon's threat-level notwithstanding, I'm sticking with this theory; I think it makes sense from a logical standpoint, even if its dramatic footing is arguable.

[Lycan 01]

But wouldn't Xykon also be happy to know that he has a whole new world to conquer? :smallamused:


Refresh my memory - is the Snarl actually a tangled mass of chaos and disorder, like an pile of intertwined and inumerably knotted string? Or is it... something else?

[Jagos]

But wouldn't Xykon also be happy to know that he has a whole new world to conquer? :smallamused:


Refresh my memory - is the Snarl actually a tangled mass of chaos and disorder, like an pile of intertwined and inumerably knotted string? Or is it... something else?

That's what we're speculating about. What we know of the Snarl comes from third hand sources. Either it's A) a story that tells a God's perspective or B) it's directly from someone that's already dead.

We'll eventually have to get something from the Snarl world inside to truly corroborate what the Snarl is and is not.

[InfectiousFight]

As was said above, a meritorious idea.

[Thanatosia]

THe problem with the theory is that it assumes the unraveling of the snarl is a gradual event that occured over thousands of years. But the time gap between the snarls last lashing outs and its current state has spanned less then 100. For your theory to make any sense, then it is just pure coincidence that a timeline event that took thousands of years to take place just happened to come to its conclusion in the comparitively very very small span between the rifts being sealed and the current day. Its just a stretch IMO.

I think if there was any significant change in the nature of the snarl from its last appearance to its current state, it makes far more sense to propose that the gates themselves are what altered its state; not a gradual change that was already in effect.

[Trobby]

I think if there was any significant change in the nature of the snarl from its last appearance to its current state, it makes far more sense to propose that the gates themselves are what altered its state; not a gradual change that was already in effect.
I'd like to second this suggestion, as it makes sense to me almost instantly.

I mean, what's the one thing that we KNOW has changed about the Snarl's prison over the years? The existence of the Gates seems to be the major thing, at least in the last 100 years or so. Maybe, just maybe, the Gates do more than just seal off the Snarl. Maybe Dorukan's gates also channel out the negative energy (Not literal negative energy) of the Snarl and help unravel the inner turmoil, thus causing it to weave together and form another world, very, very slowly.

Therefore, the real danger we may face is not that one of the Gates might be used to expose a greater power to the universe, but that The Gods do NOT know of this evolution, and if all five gates should fall, they may become aware of the rifts, and decide to tear apart the world again, rather than risk releasing the Snarl.

But...in doing so, they would be destroying TWO worlds, not one.

And who's to say unraveling a world that is essentially made to be the prison of the Snarl wouldn't itself unleash the Snarl again, only this time, fully aware of the vindictive nature of his former captors?

We could very well be looking at the end of existence.

[rewinn]

I mean, what's the one thing that we KNOW has changed about the Snarl's prison over the years?
For your theory to make any sense, then it is just pure coincidence that a timeline event that took thousands of years to take place just happened to come to its conclusion in the comparitively very very small span between the rifts being sealed and the current day.

My friends, may I propose as The Critical Change: the upgrade from 3.0 to 3.5 ! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)

(Belkar's "weapon shrinkage" was an awesome foreshadowing of The Taming Of The Snarl!)

[Enlong]

THe problem with the theory is that it assumes the unraveling of the snarl is a gradual event that occured over thousands of years. But the time gap between the snarls last lashing outs and its current state has spanned less then 100. For your theory to make any sense, then it is just pure coincidence that a timeline event that took thousands of years to take place just happened to come to its conclusion in the comparitively very very small span between the rifts being sealed and the current day. Its just a stretch IMO.

I think if there was any significant change in the nature of the snarl from its last appearance to its current state, it makes far more sense to propose that the gates themselves are what altered its state; not a gradual change that was already in effect.

I would turn again to the Crayon flashback. During the Order of the Scribble's quest, they encountered the Snarl's claws, but they seemed... weaker than the Snarl as it was initially described. Would the same claws that tore creation apart in 27 minutes have only killed one human when they first lashed out? Could Kraagor and Soon have fended off the claws guarding the last gate, for even a second, and only lose one party member in the process? I think not. At that point, the Snarl had lost its substance, to the point where it had gone from god-killing, world-destroying terror, to a monster that was far weaker than that, albeit strong enough to destroy most underleveled heroes with one attack; very high or perhaps epic level, but not on par with those of divine rank anymore.
And then, after that encounter, it was sealed up again, and the rifts did not open again until another 200 or so years had passed.
Does that seem as far-fetched now?

[Jagos]

I have to think so. Soon's wife was killed in one swipe. Granted, she didn't have fighter ranks more than likely, being more a researcher than anything else, but it doesn't vibe with both her death as well as the death of the Dark One's Priest who even had a Red Cloak IIRC.

We have heard that the Divine Ones are more susceptible to the Snarl than those of epic or even lower level. I don't believe Kraagor's fight takes away from that point.

Regardless, the Snarl didn't kill Blackwing and Xykon and that has to be one of the largest rifts that we've seen so far in the comic.

[Enlong]

I have to think so. Soon's wife was killed in one swipe. Granted, she didn't have fighter ranks more than likely, being more a researcher than anything else, but it doesn't vibe with both her death as well as the death of the Dark One's Priest who even had a Red Cloak IIRC.

We have heard that the Divine Ones are more susceptible to the Snarl than those of epic or even lower level. I don't believe Kraagor's fight takes away from that point.

Regardless, the Snarl didn't kill Blackwing and Xykon and that has to be one of the largest rifts that we've seen so far in the comic.

Well, yeah. Soon's wife was killed in one swipe. But as you said; most likely Commoner, and I think that the Snarl was still something like Epic level at that point. The fact that that was all the claw did there, as well as it only killing Kraagor at the last rift is, I think, a sign of the Snarl weakening.

[Thanatosia]

I would turn again to the Crayon flashback. During the Order of the Scribble's quest, they encountered the Snarl's claws, but they seemed... weaker than the Snarl as it was initially described. Would the same claws that tore creation apart in 27 minutes have only killed one human when they first lashed out? Could Kraagor and Soon have fended off the claws guarding the last gate, for even a second, and only lose one party member in the process? I think not. At that point, the Snarl had lost its substance, to the point where it had gone from god-killing, world-destroying terror, to a monster that was far weaker than that, albeit strong enough to destroy most underleveled heroes with one attack; very high or perhaps epic level, but not on par with those of divine rank anymore.
And then, after that encounter, it was sealed up again, and the rifts did not open again until another 200 or so years had passed.
Does that seem as far-fetched now?
Yes, it does still seem far-fetched IMO. The Gates have been constructed only within the last ~50 years or so I believe. The Rifts were discovered 66 years ago when they slew Soon's Wife. 65 years ago they killed a nameless goblin experimenting with a chicken. The Order of the Scrible took years traveling the entire world, finding the 5 rifts, researcing their background, researcing the construction of gates, and building them (wich takes a lot of time according to Redcloak and Xykon - its why they keep moving from one gate to another as they get destroyed rather then just rebuilding their own over one of the rifts).

Now for your theory to make sense, there is a decay time between evil monster and unraveled world. That decay time just happens, by pure coincidence, lasts thousands of years and happens to complete in the narrow 50 year period between construction of the gates and modern time. Lets say the world is 2000 years old (wich seems short to me), that means it takes the Snarl around 1970 years to unravel, and if you alter that figure by even so much as 2% in either direction, then either the snarl is unraveled before the gates are constructed or it will still be clawing people. That seems an unlikely threshold of exactness.

[John Cribati]

Would the same Snarl that tore creation apart in "twenty-seven minutes" have been delayed in the slightest by Kraagor and soon (and only manage to kill one)?

Pardon my nit-picky-ness but I always assumed that Kraagor was killed by the sealing of the rift, rather than the Snarl itself, in which case it would mean the snarl was even weaker than you say it was.

[Teddy]

Nice theory, but I'll wait and see what happens next.


I have to think so. Soon's wife was killed in one swipe. Granted, she didn't have fighter ranks more than likely, being more a researcher than anything else, but it doesn't vibe with both her death as well as the death of the Dark One's Priest who even had a Red Cloak IIRC.

Mijung (Soon's wife) was most likely a wizard, since she showed some knowledge and quite a large curiousity about the rift. And the goblin priest wore a blue cloak (the Crimson Mantle was created by the Dark One after he learned about the Snarl).

[Enlong]

Yes, it does still seem far-fetched IMO. The Gates have been constructed only within the last ~50 years or so I believe. The Rifts were discovered 66 years ago when they slew Soon's Wife. 65 years ago they killed a nameless goblin experimenting with a chicken. The Order of the Scrible took years traveling the entire world, finding the 5 rifts, researcing their background, researcing the construction of gates, and building them (wich takes a lot of time according to Redcloak and Xykon - its why they keep moving from one gate to another as they get destroyed rather then just rebuilding their own over one of the rifts).

Now for your theory to make sense, there is a decay time between evil monster and unraveled world. That decay time just happens, by pure coincidence, lasts thousands of years and happens to complete in the narrow 50 year period between construction of the gates and modern time. Lets say the world is 2000 years old (wich seems short to me), that means it takes the Snarl around 1970 years to unravel, and if you alter that figure by even so much as 2% in either direction, then either the snarl is unraveled before the gates are constructed or it will still be clawing people. That seems an unlikely threshold of exactness.

Your timing is a bit off. Remember the last page of the crayon flashback? An "aged" Soon passed the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father when Shojo was just a young kid. Shojo was over 80 years old when Miko killed him. So it's been long enough for Soon, and then Shojo, to grow to an advanced age (Shojo was over 80, and Soon died of old age). At least 100 + years, probably closer to 200, perhaps.

And who knows? Perhaps it was that exact (about as likely as it finishing at any other time), perhaps the process accelerated as it went on, who knows?

[Herald Alberich]

Your timing is a bit off. Remember the last page of the crayon flashback? An "aged" Soon passed the Sapphire Guard to Shojo's father when Shojo was just a young kid. Shojo was over 80 years old when Miko killed him. So it's been long enough for Soon, and then Shojo, to grow to an advanced age (Shojo was over 80, and Soon died of old age). At least 100 + years, probably closer to 200, perhaps.

One page before that, Shojo says that Mijung was killed only 66 years before. Yeah, that part doesn't make much sense.

[Enlong]

One page before that, Shojo says that Mijung was killed only 66 years before. Yeah, that part doesn't make much sense.
Yeah that's.... that doesn't make sense.
I think I'm going to go with Soon and Shojo's respective ages as the more concrete evidence of the amount of time that passed.
Not that it's all that important, but...

[donkyhotay]

Yes, it does still seem far-fetched IMO. The Gates have been constructed only within the last ~50 years or so I believe. The Rifts were discovered 66 years ago when they slew Soon's Wife. 65 years ago they killed a nameless goblin experimenting with a chicken. The Order of the Scrible took years traveling the entire world, finding the 5 rifts, researcing their background, researcing the construction of gates, and building them (wich takes a lot of time according to Redcloak and Xykon - its why they keep moving from one gate to another as they get destroyed rather then just rebuilding their own over one of the rifts).

Now for your theory to make sense, there is a decay time between evil monster and unraveled world. That decay time just happens, by pure coincidence, lasts thousands of years and happens to complete in the narrow 50 year period between construction of the gates and modern time. Lets say the world is 2000 years old (wich seems short to me), that means it takes the Snarl around 1970 years to unravel, and if you alter that figure by even so much as 2% in either direction, then either the snarl is unraveled before the gates are constructed or it will still be clawing people. That seems an unlikely threshold of exactness.

Except you're in a world ruled by plot. Why do you think one-in-a-million shots happen nine time out of ten? I could see myself creating this kind of plot twist in a campaign. I'm running a campaign right now where evil aliens attacked and destroyed the space station the PC's were on (it's a sci-fi campaign) only a mere week after they managed to 'acquire' a long range starship. Coincidental timing? Of course! Station was supposed to be destroyed for plot purposes but without a starship the PC's would have just died in space when the station blew up and without a week for refitting after getting the ship they would have run out of fuel/supplies trying to get to another star system that wasn't already conquered. The station was destroyed when the plot required it to blow up, not based on anything else.

[Thanatosia]

Yeah that's.... that doesn't make sense.
I think I'm going to go with Soon and Shojo's respective ages as the more concrete evidence of the amount of time that passed.
If you read SOD, there is cooborating evidence for the <66 years timeline:
30 years ago, Redcloak and Righteye detail an event that happened 35 years ago to Xykon, where a Goblin Cleric discovers Lirions Rift before the gate is constructed on it, and the Snarl devours both the Cleric and the Chicken he intended to send through it. It's what prompts the Dark One (the goblin god) to discover the nature of the Snarl. 30yrs + 35yrs = 65 years ago, near the 66 year timeline given for Soon's Wife's death.
2 seperate timeline events given in hard numerical count of years trumps a subjective interpretation of Shojo's aging IMO for concrete evidence on amount of time passed. I think Shojo is slightly younger then he looks and aged fast on account of bearing the weight of responsibility for his city. Given his life of deception, I would'nt put it past him to deliberately try to look older to advance his Senile old Man Ploy. Even adhering to the 66 year timeline, he could still easily be 50+, and i've seen some pretty run down 50 year old people.

Except you're in a world ruled by plot. Why do you think one-in-a-million shots happen nine time out of ten
I dont think this is the kind of situation where a dramatic rule of plot would be comfortably evoked, especialy given that a much more reasonable hypothesis exists that any significant change to the snarl after the gates were made are likely tied to the gates themselves.

[Enlong]

If you read SOD, there is cooborating evidence for the <66 years timeline:
30 years ago, Redcloak and Righteye detail an event that happened 35 years ago to Xykon, where a Goblin Cleric discovers Lirions Rift before the gate is constructed on it, and the Snarl devours both the Cleric and the Chicken he intended to send through it. It's what prompts the Dark One (the goblin god) to discover the nature of the Snarl. 30yrs + 35yrs = 65 years ago, near the 66 year timeline given for Soon's Wife's death.
2 seperate timeline events given in hard numerical count of years trumps a subjective interpretation of Shojo's aging IMO for concrete evidence on amount of time passed. I think Shojo is slightly younger then he looks and aged fast on account of bearing the weight of responsibility for his city. Given his life of deception, I would'nt put it past him to deliberately try to look older to advance his Senile old Man Ploy. Even adhering to the 66 year timeline, he could still easily be 50+, and i've seen some pretty run down 50 year old people.

Ah, then I concede the point. Roy must've been mistaken when he said that Shojo was an octogenarian
...hmm, though a look at the character profiles in WaXPs says that Shojo was 72. That would make him 6 years old when Mijung died. Odd.

However, I'd still like to mention that it seems as though the Snarl is significantly weaker in Soon's time. It only kills Mijung, and not Soon, who was right next to her. And only Kraagor is killed at the Northern Gate, despite both he and Soon being in melee range of the rift (remember, the Snarl was said to have killed two gods outright in one round of combat. ... though the nature of the prison, which is supposed to null its divine powers, could explain part of it.) If it had been unraveling since the time it was imprisoned, that would explain the significant drop in power. And after that, tehre wasn't a whole lot of Snarl left to unravel, so the process finished quickly.

[Barbolanero]

I liked this theory a lot. Nevertheless, I think it stands on weak basis. Yes, I know that the snarl seemed omnipotent at one point, and then weaker at another. But that is just how humans tell stories. We exaggerate some things, and then take importance away. And remember that all the stories and explanations are given by humans.

[Enlong]

Well, honestly, I didn't make the theory to stand on the idea of "Snarl gets weaker", but more on "Snarl is nowhere to be seen, even when a character stares into the largest rift so far, and a world is where it is supposed to be". The former was just a subtheory to answer some of the questions that came up later.

[Lycan 01]

Um... Haven't two gates been destroyed thus far? And the first gate's destruction weakened the fabric of the universe, according to Miko's orders to capture the OotS. Well... What if that somehow weakened the Snarl? Or at least, sped up the "de-tangling" process in some way? :smallconfused:


Also, the rifts were already there, and the Snarl had been able to reach out and mess around with them. That allowed the Snarl to stay active, and maintain its "Chaos" state. Well, when the rifts were sealed by the gates, the Snarl was left with... nothing. Wherever it was, it was just sitting there. No way to lash out, no way to manipulate stuff... All it could do was sit there and unwind, figuratively and possibly literally. Perhaps being unable to maintain its Chaos slowly allowed the Snarl to devolve into... Order? :smallconfused:

[Enlong]

A bit long-winded, but that's pretty much what I'm saying. The Snarl's made up of the stuff used to make worlds. The rift has no Snarl that we can see, but it does have a world. If the Snarl was to untangle and take its intended shape, it would likely become a world.

[Gift Jeraff]

Um... Haven't two gates been destroyed thus far? And the first gate's destruction weakened the fabric of the universe, according to Miko's orders to capture the OotS. Well... What if that somehow weakened the Snarl? Or at least, sped up the "de-tangling" process in some way? :smallconfused:

Lirian's Gate was destroyed like 27 years before the destruction of Dorukan's.

[Lycan 01]

Okay, so that's three gates down. That had to have SOME affects on something, be it reality or the Snarl itself...

If a gate goes down, does it re-open a rift since there's nothing blocking it, or permanently destroy the rift itself? Dorukan's gate self destructed, but Soon's was directly destroyed by force. Somehow, Soon's created a rip in the fabric of reality, but Dorukan's didn't. So theoretically, if a gate destroys itself, it destroys the rift it protects, but if the gate is "broken" somehow, it just makes the rift even bigger.

If that is true, that's two rifts that have effectively been erased, and one rift that was made freaking huge. I don't know what that has to do with anything now that I think about it, but it was still fun to point out. :smallbiggrin:

[Enlong]

I'm... not quite sure what you mean by the gates being broken having an effect on the Snarl itself.

[Lycan 01]

Well, if the gates, and by extension rifts, are destroyed, then the Snarl loses one of its few points of access into reality. So that permanently lessens the amount of outside influence it can have. Wouldn't this speed up its "unwinding" rate?

So theoretically, the destruction of the first gate 30-some-odd years ago could have sped up, to some degree, the speed at which the Snarl is untangling.


This stuff makes more sense in my head. I'm not good at putting theories and ideas down on paper. :smallannoyed:

[Thanatosia]

Somehow, Soon's created a rip in the fabric of reality, but Dorukan's didn't. So theoretically, if a gate destroys itself, it destroys the rift it protects, but if the gate is "broken" somehow, it just makes the rift even bigger.

No one hanged out to see what happend to Dorukan's Rift after destroying the gate, it was burried under the ruble of his castle/dungeon.

[Enlong]

Yeah, we've got no reason to believe that blowing up the Redmountain gate erased the rift. If anything, it probably expanded it, like Soon's rift. Lirian's gate was broken too, and it's still there.

[Jagos]

Ah, then I concede the point. Roy must've been mistaken when he said that Shojo was an octogenarian
...hmm, though a look at the character profiles in WaXPs says that Shojo was 72. That would make him 6 years old when Mijung died. Odd.

However, I'd still like to mention that it seems as though the Snarl is significantly weaker in Soon's time. It only kills Mijung, and not Soon, who was right next to her. And only Kraagor is killed at the Northern Gate, despite both he and Soon being in melee range of the rift (remember, the Snarl was said to have killed two gods outright in one round of combat. ... though the nature of the prison, which is supposed to null its divine powers, could explain part of it.) If it had been unraveling since the time it was imprisoned, that would explain the significant drop in power. And after that, tehre wasn't a whole lot of Snarl left to unravel, so the process finished quickly.

But there's a significant difference between the two events. The Gods saw a full unleashed Wrath that no one was aware was occurring.

The rifts signify a small portion of the Snarl's power at the very least. I would take into account that the natural order of the world only allows for a portion of the Snarl to come out at one time, possibly allowing for the attacks that lasted for one round instead of 5 rounds like the Gods had to deal with.

[GSFB]

My theory:

It was all a dream. Any strip now, Lirian is going wake up to Dorukan coming out of the shower.

[Trobby]

My theory:

It was all a dream. Any strip now, Lirian is going wake up to Dorukan coming out of the shower.

..That would simultaneously make this the best AND worst web comic ever created. Ever.

..Okay, it would just be a massive anticlimax. ;p

And I admit that the arguments for and against the Snarl being weaker than before/turned into a world itself have now spiraled past my comprehension, but on the subject of Red Mountain Gate, we never do actually SEE the results of it being open, do we? We have no idea how the rift may or may not have grown, since the Order pretty much ambled off shortly after breaking it apart.

Wouldn't it be possible, therefore, that those beings unfamiliar with the gate may be walking right the rift, right now, as the rift may have already swallowed all the ruins of Durokan's castle and the mountain itself, leaving a large empty space with a big hole in reality?

After all, Mijung wasn't aware of the rift's nature, and she just idly stood by and examined it. Who knows what other beings are doing near that tear in reality?

[Enlong]

Honestly, I too think the arguments for/against the Snarl weakening have gone out of control, and that wasn't even the point I was trying to make anyway. (though Shojo explicitly says in the flashback that the prison all but annuls the thing's divine powers).

The bare bones of what I'm really trying to say is:

Snarl = tangled Creation String.
World = orderly woven Creation String.
Therefore: Snarl - tangle = World.

Rifts in Soon's time had Snarl-claws coming from them
Rifts today have not produced a single claw, no matter how close a character has gotten, or how big the rift.

And our one look into the rifts so far has shown us a world, not the Snarl, within the "tiny demiplane".

The demiplane had all the raw materials to make a world; i.e. The Snarl. Therefore, the Snarl unraveling over time would explain its absence, and the presence of this rift-world. The Snarl's strength at any given time is frankly immaterial to the theory.

[Lycan 01]

And let me say again, you're theory makes a lot of sense.


I should just stick to smiling and nodding. Whenever I have a theory, it comes out sounding a lot worse on paper than it did in my head. I'm just not good at expressing my ideas, it seems... :smallannoyed:

So yeah, I'll leave the theories and stuff to you guys. :smalltongue:

[Sewblon]

That would explain allot. But why would the Snarl unravel on its own? And if that is the whole story why did Xykon's phylactery fall past the rift instead of just falling into the other dimension? Maybe what Blackwing saw wasn't real.

[Linkavitch]

Imagine Xykon's reaction when he finds out that Redcloak's led him all this way for no payoff.

Didn't he imply one time that he could destroy the world if he wanted to?

[Linkavitch]

The bare bones of what I'm really trying to say is:

Snarl = tangled Creation String.
World = orderly woven Creation String.
Therefore: Snarl - tangle = World.



Excpet, according to whichever law of thermodynamics, the universe is slowly wearing down, and becoming less orderly. Sure I can understand the snarl working itself out into the raw materials, but I don't think the materials could order themselves into a world. You'd need to add this:

Snarl-tangle+order=world.