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View Full Version : [3.5] Sleep's Really Powerful...



Zovc
2009-09-15, 08:55 AM
I'm sure this has been said (and said again, and exaggerated, etc.), but I was playing Neverwinter Nights 2 to play as a Wizard (I previously played as a Fighter/Barbarain). I was going to try to emulate the powergaming wizard I usually see represented here, as best as I could with the removed and added spells.

You see, lots of the game's spells have been adjusted in NWN2, for example, Blindness/Deafness is not permanent. I was trying to get the most bang for my buck with spels, and I took Sleep as a crowd control spell. I went to cast sleep in the game for the first time and I realized, "Sleep is an Area of Effect spell."

Man, is that broken. I literally defeated EVERY encounter simply casting sleep once or twice, then killing everything with a coupe de grace. A lot of people say that the spell's power is exaggerated, but it looks like an effort was made to balance the spells from 3.5.

I was a Wizard 4 (19 Int) by the time I started using Sleep on everything. I don't know if it matters to you, but I had a +1 Club that hit for roughly 3-5 damage most of the time. Yes, I had a Fighter 4 with me, but I never failed to hit with one of my own coupe de graces.

((Sleep, as it functions in NWN2 (http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Sleep_(spell))))

Clementx
2009-09-15, 09:09 AM
DnD Sleep has numerous drawbacks not present in NWN, going by that linked stat block. One-round casting time gives everyone else a full-round action to disrupt your spell. It only works on 4HD worth of living creatures. It is wonderful when it works, but that is rarely and only for a couple of levels.

SparkMandriller
2009-09-15, 09:11 AM
NWN 2 needs DMs going around causing your spellbooks to spontaneously combust. That'd fix things up right proper.

riddles
2009-09-15, 09:23 AM
there's still a HD cap, which limits the effectiveness later in the game. although it's effective far past pnp games as you tend to fight a lot of mob style enemies.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-15, 09:43 AM
Wait, Rangers get sleep in NWN 2?

Zovc
2009-09-15, 09:58 AM
Wait, Rangers get sleep in NWN 2?

Yeah, but they can't possibly cast it until level 8.

Kylarra
2009-09-15, 10:06 AM
I never failed to hit with one of my own coupe de graces.
Coup de grace never misses.

ericgrau
2009-09-15, 10:23 AM
DnD Sleep has numerous drawbacks not present in NWN, going by that linked stat block. One-round casting time gives everyone else a full-round action to disrupt your spell. It only works on 4HD worth of living creatures. It is wonderful when it works, but that is rarely and only for a couple of levels.

You can also wake someone up with a standard action by slapping them.

daggaz
2009-09-15, 10:27 AM
..and they promptly go right back to sleep again without use of some sort of magical effect.

EDIT NM, I think that is old 2.0 rules or something.

Darcand
2009-09-15, 11:06 AM
You can also wake someone up with a standard action by slapping them.

I always wondered about that. Does sleep make them lay down and take a nap? because if they just fall asleep instantly shouldn't hitting the ground wake them up?

Kylarra
2009-09-15, 11:10 AM
I always wondered about that. Does sleep make them lay down and take a nap? because if they just fall asleep instantly shouldn't hitting the ground wake them up?You don't take damage from falling that far!

Besides it's obvious that someone needs to burn a standard action to wake them up before duration.

SparkMandriller
2009-09-15, 11:14 AM
You only get woken up if someone uses aid another on you. The ground is too lazy to do that, so you stay asleep.

Damn ground. Won't even slap someone to save their life.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-09-15, 11:18 AM
Yeah, at low levels, a sorcerer with sleep is scary good...

tyckspoon
2009-09-15, 11:18 AM
DnD Sleep has numerous drawbacks not present in NWN, going by that linked stat block. One-round casting time gives everyone else a full-round action to disrupt your spell. It only works on 4HD worth of living creatures. It is wonderful when it works, but that is rarely and only for a couple of levels.

It's also non-discriminatory, whereas the default NWN2 difficulty settings allow all of your AoE spells to ignore your allies (admittedly necessary to use them in that game, as there is no practical way to prevent your party from rushing into combat or to keep your enemies from charging you before you manage to cast the spell.) It's still one of the best 1st-level spells, but there are a lot more things to consider with where and how you use it.