ExDeath In Dungeons and Dragons

[ArlEammon]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/ExDeath

ExDeath had the power to combine two worlds and then destroy them singlehandedly in FFV. He frequently conquers the FFV heroes as if they were flees.

How powerful would ExDeath be in:

1)Eberron
2)Forgotten Realms
3)Dragon Lance
4)Greyhawk
5)Dark Sun

Any other setting... ?

ExDeath seems to me like he would fit in very well with the D&D cosmology as an Elder Evil.

[Kato]

Hm... not... so much.
ExDeath (himself) is pretty much either a rally powerful mage or a minor god, though more the first. He was a pretty strong opponent but he did not have the ability to melt two worlds. He merely removed the powers keeping them apart, the crystals. Also, he was defeated back then by the warriors of Dawn which even if rather powerful are mere humans, and while the melting of the worlds he was probably nearing his end, considering he had to resort to the shape of a thorn afterwards.
If we are talking of ExDeath controlling/merged with the void of course it's an entirely other thing. The Void pretty much is an Elder EVil, except created by man and probably without consciousness but with the vast power to destroy everything there is. It's rather weird it could be defeated by the heroes in the first place though. the only thing able to stop that were the crystals banishing it into another realm (or rather a realm between realms. Omg, FF V ripped of the Rift-verse)

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah...I don't know the character, but according to that article you linked, the peak of his pre-Void power was causing a huge earthquake and burning down a forest. High-level arcane magic there, but not Elder Evil status.

[Ridureyu]

Well, let's think of some other things that Exdeath managed to do.

The Barrier Shield - it never states explicitly that Exdeath cast the spell the first time, but it's a pretty safe bet considering its timing. The spell must be maintained with those guard towers, but aside from that it's essentially stronger than Cloister. Nothing's coming in that you don't want while that spell's up.

X-Zone - he had this ability before gaining the full power of Void (See Gilgamesh). It's not even a Save or Die spell, it's just "Die." But then, it's also essentially a modified plane shift.

Burning down the forest - that wasn't an ordinary forest, though. Imagine the difficulty inherent in burning down and destroying a forest of really, really, really ancient and powerful Treants. In one round.

Mind Control - not the highest-level ability out there, really. Still, he could do it from essentially any distance.

The Fiends of the Void - Note that Exdeath easily commanded and controlled those fiends. Based on the examples of Omega and SHinryu, that would not have happened had Exdeath not been able to easily overpower them. If you analyze the abilities of each demon (earthquakes, polymorphing, megagigawhateverflare), it seems to add a little more to the list of things that he can do.

Overpowering armies - Exdeath is high-level enough that no amount of peons can kill him. It takes high-level heroes to do so. Now, the same can be said about any spellcaster around level 20 or so - he can just fly and rain death. This is still a factor.

Post-Void, Exdeath gained the ability to make things stop existing by looking at them. But I don't think we're discussing Exdeath after he gained the Power of Void, are we?

[Kato]

Hm... you've got some good points there but I tend to argue on some things.
I'm unsure if Exdeath himself casted the barrier or if it was a technological thing. FF V is full of lost tech and that might just as well be one of them.
Also, the mind control is not that spectacular, since he could only use it on one or a few people (sure he was banished at that time and supposed to be unable to do anything but still)
Burning down the forest (though, probably not in one round but rather fast) is quite impressive with a magical forest but we do not know how powerful the magic was especially against fire. Possibly the destruction of the guardian distracted/weakened whatever protective spirit there was and made things easier that way.
How he managed to control the rift creatures is impressive unless you want to believe they were lyal cause he freed them. Though, a powerful sorcerer should/might have been able to do so with fear. (They could be destroyed by mere humans (kinda) after all so a wizard of Exdeath's level could have surely done the same)

Overall, some of his actions possibly put him above the level of a mere magician but he's still far from Elder Evil (pre-Void that is) The most fitting might be some kind of demi or lesser god, I guess.

[Omegonthesane]

The Barrier Shield - it never states explicitly that Exdeath cast the spell the first time, but it's a pretty safe bet considering its timing. The spell must be maintained with those guard towers, but aside from that it's essentially stronger than Cloister. Nothing's coming in that you don't want while that spell's up.
They never confirmed that Whisperweed couldn't penetrate it, but physical objects can't so it's certainly more useful than Cloister, and no one had any spies in Castle Exdeath.


X-Zone - he had this ability before gaining the full power of Void (See Gilgamesh). It's not even a Save or Die spell, it's just "Die." But then, it's also essentially a modified plane shift.
It technically is a save-or-die spell. Time Mages also get the Banish spell, and sometimes it doesn't work. However, for Gilgamesh to be guaranteed to fail his 'save' Exdeath has to be very powerful indeed.


Burning down the forest - that wasn't an ordinary forest, though. Imagine the difficulty inherent in burning down and destroying a forest of really, really, really ancient and powerful Treants. In one round.
More like at least six rounds, but I basically agree with you here. /nitpick


The Fiends of the Void - Note that Exdeath easily commanded and controlled those fiends. Based on the examples of Omega and SHinryu, that would not have happened had Exdeath not been able to easily overpower them. If you analyze the abilities of each demon (earthquakes, polymorphing, megagigawhateverflare), it seems to add a little more to the list of things that he can do.
I got the impression that Exdeath had no control whatsoever over Omega and Shinryu, and was just tiptoeing around them. Also, Neo-Exdeath (i.e. Exdeath consumed by the void and reborn with (more of) its power) is categorically an easier boss fight than Omega or Shinryu, albeit a longer one and primarily because Omega and Shinryu require actual good tactics no matter your raw power.


Overpowering armies - Exdeath is high-level enough that no amount of peons can kill him. It takes high-level heroes to do so. Now, the same can be said about any spellcaster around level 20 or so - he can just fly and rain death. This is still a factor.
I don't recall Exdeath himself overpowering any armies, but zerg rush vs wizards is generally pretty hard to pull off.


Post-Void, Exdeath gained the ability to make things stop existing by looking at them. But I don't think we're discussing Exdeath after he gained the Power of Void, are we?
Actually, he was only able to Plane Shift them. Note how the void disgorges everything Exdeath sucked into it when Neo-Exdeath is destroyed.

[ArlEammon]

Post-Void, Exdeath gained the ability to make things stop existing by looking at them. But I don't think we're discussing Exdeath after he gained the Power of Void, are we?

Just assume that ExDeath can become NeoExDeath if he dies as normal ExDeath . . Maybe he can do similar things for D&D worlds he does as he did in FFV.

[Omegonthesane]

Just assume that ExDeath can become NeoExDeath if he dies as normal ExDeath . . Maybe he can do similar things for D&D worlds he does as he did in FFV.

The change into Neo-Exdeath happened primarily because Exdeath was currently inside the Rift and therefore exposed, or at least that's how I understood it. Basically, it wasn't him dying normally, it was him losing his grip on the Void for just long enough to be engulfed by it.

[Kato]

The change into Neo-Exdeath happened primarily because Exdeath was currently inside the Rift and therefore exposed, or at least that's how I understood it. Basically, it wasn't him dying normally, it was him losing his grip on the Void for just long enough to be engulfed by it.

Dito.

Also, I forgot the part about Omega and Shinryu before. I hardly assume Exdeath would have stood up against them. Otherwise he'd have thrown them at you and... yeah, good luck with that.

[ArlEammon]

Still, in a setting like Eberron, he'd be hardly one to sneeze at. Or even Dragon Lance.

[Cracklord]

Are you joking? He'd have to fight Raistlin.
And he wouldn't beat Raistlin.

[ArlEammon]

Since Raistlin became a time traveling spirit thingy, wouldn't he be considered a god?

[Omegonthesane]

Are you joking? He'd have to fight Raistlin.
And he wouldn't beat Raistlin.

This depends on what stage we hold the match. In the third act of the game, Exdeath is able to throw pretty much anything into the Void with no save. This actually includes the heroes - they are only allowed out because the souls of the Dawn Warriors and King Tycoon intervene and continue to intervene offscreen during the final battle. Therefore it reduces the fight to "roll initiative"; I can't be bothered to list the 99 ways Raistlin can pwn Exdeath in 1 turn, but Exdeath needs only one.
*rolls initiative*
Exdeath: I go first. To the Void with you Raistlin!
Raistlin: Wait, don't I have about six contingencies you just set off? Or even a Will save?
Exdeath: You get no save, and I have no limit to my void banishings per day. :smalltongue:


Indeed, the requirement for the heroes to be aided just to escape the Void may be proof that Exdeath is under strength in the final battle given his full attention is not on that battle. Note how much more of a fight Enuo is in the GBA version, given that Enuo was supposedly defeated at his full power with the 12 legendary weapons which really aren't the absolute strongest in the game. Given this, I actually retract my earlier statement that Exdeath is necessarily weaker than Omega or Shinryu, because the final battle is not fought against his full power.

[Cracklord]

And Fistandantilus was able to kill people with a thought.
Lord Soth was able to kill them with a word.
Raistlin beat both of them.
Total power is not all it's cracked up to be.

[Omegonthesane]

And Fistandantilus was able to kill people with a thought.
Lord Soth was able to kill them with a word.
Raistlin beat both of them.
Total power is not all it's cracked up to be.
With what magic were these people able to kill so quickly? I'd imagine it allowed a save. "Throw Whole City into the Void" doesn't allow a save, although apparently it requires a mote of concentration to maintain given the Dawn Warriors were able to counteract it.

Also, recall that Exdeath was defeated by the equivalent of at least four epic-level mega-gestalt heroes ganging up on him. And, as a final boss, automatically passes his save against all save-or-die effects. :smallwink:

[Kato]

Also, recall that Exdeath was defeated by the equivalent of at least four epic-level mega-gestalt heroes ganging up on him. And, as a final boss, automatically passes his save against all save-or-die effects. :smallwink:

But they mostly beat him by stabbing and burning, which is just a massive amount of basic attacks. I don't want to talk him down, he is a damn challenge and such but still nowhere near invincibilty.
Also, he doesn't get to save against any life-or-death attacks, he fails them (probably on purpose) since they don't do anything to them. (Damn you Odin and the magic lamp!)

Also, I'd not totally deny the possibility of a save against the void. A powerful wizard might just time stop him and then hack him to pieces. Or maybe it's just a matter of plane shift and not being undone. He can plane shift you again and again, sure, but that's not too bad. Or you evade it, since the shift is not instantaneous (if people were fast enough they might be able to run from it, who knows?)

[Cracklord]

With what magic were these people able to kill so quickly? I'd imagine it allowed a save. "Throw Whole City into the Void" doesn't allow a save, although apparently it requires a mote of concentration to maintain given the Dawn Warriors were able to counteract it.


I have no idea. Crysania was able to send her soul to Paladine to counteract Lord Soth's death spell, but it took the most powerful cleric, ever, to bring her back.
Fistandantilus was beaten by Raistlin. Eventually.
I don't think saving throws are applicable, storywise. For one thing, they are never mentioned, Raistlin only circumvents it with his own magic.

[Omegonthesane]

I have no idea. Crysania was able to send her soul to Paladine to counteract Lord Soth's death spell, but it took the most powerful cleric, ever, to bring her back.
Fistandantilus was beaten by Raistlin. Eventually.
I don't think saving throws are applicable, storywise. For one thing, they are never mentioned, Raistlin only circumvents it with his own magic.

Saving throws are meant to represent whether or not you're too badass/reactive/stubborn (Fort/Ref/Will respectively) for such and such an effect to work, so they probably are applicable storywise. "Circumvent" implies that the death spell still worked but was somehow sidestepped, rather than that it was outright stopped.