[HOUSE RULE D&D3.5] Easier Management of Metamagic

[Altair_the_Vexed]

No-one ever uses Metamagic in games I've been involved in 'cause you can hardly ever predict what you'll need, so why burn a feat?

So - here's a house rule I propose to get people to actually use the Metamagic feats in my games.

Metamagic effects may be applied as a free action to spells you cast by making a Spellcraft check (DC = 15 + (increased spell level x 3)).

Failing the check means that the spell either goes off without modification, but uses up the higher spell slot. If you fail a Concentration check while casting a Metamagic spell, you lose the higher spell slot.
Metamagic spells takes no longer to cast, and metamagic effects may be applied spontaneously.
You must have the required feat to apply a Metamagic effect.
If you prepare spells, you chose which higher level spell to sacrifice to power the metamagic spell, and the metamagicked spell is cast in its place. The normal level version of the metamagicked spell is retained, and may be cast later.

Example: Altair the Wizard can cast 8th level spells. He has the feat Maximise Spell, and wishes to cast Fireball (a 3rd level spell) as a Maximised spell. He elects to sacrifice the 6th level spell, Legend Lore to power the metamagic. He makes a Spellcraft check, DC 33 (Maximise Spell uses a slot 3 levels higher, so 15 + (3 x 6) =33). If Altair succeeds, his Fireball deal maximum damage. If he fails the check, the Fireball damage is rolled normally, but he still must discard the 6th level spell to power the metamagic. In either case, he still has Fireball memorised to cast later.

I'm only using the core three books, and house rules. With that in mind, are there any ways that you can see this house rule being abused?

[RelentlessImp]

Needs to consume the higher level spell slot on a failed Spellcraft check while casting the unmodified spell, regardless.

Abuse? It's a slight change to the way it works, and it empowers every spellcasting class - but especially prepared casters by basically making metamagic a spontaneous effect for them. But Clerics with DMM already had that.

The DC might be a little low, though. Hitting a 29 DC isn't that difficult except maybe at levels 1-5. Then you buy some competence items and you're golden.

Change it to the way the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veils Incantrix (Brain Fart) DCs work. Base of 20, increases the DC by the Spell Level multiplied by 3. So to work a metamagic in this manner, it'd be DC 20 + (Modified Spell Level * 3), or 47 for a 9th level spell. Which is a harder number to hit, but not by much.

Still, I like the idea.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Needs to consume the higher level spell slot on a failed Spellcraft check while casting the unmodified spell, regardless.

Hmmm... tend to agree.
In which case, I prefer that the spell goes off unmodified, and you lose the higher spell slot.

The DC might be a little low, though. Hitting a 29 DC isn't that difficult except maybe at levels 1-5. Then you buy some competence items and you're golden.
You still have to be high enough level to cast a 9th level spell though...


Change it to the way the Incantrix DCs work. Base of 20, increases the DC by the Spell Level multiplied by 3. So to work a metamagic in this manner, it'd be DC 20 + (Modified Spell Level * 3), or 47 for a 9th level spell. Which is a harder number to hit, but not by much.
Don't really agree with raising the DC so high - you have to take a Feat to get to do this at all, and you still expend higher spell slots, so having a very difficult DC is going to discourage players from doing it at all. Even for a 20th level maxed out caster, DC27 needs more than a 10 to achieve.
Why don't I make it DC 15 Spell Level x 3 - that way, as long as you invest in Spellcraft, you're still in with at least a roughly 50% chance all the way through your career (especially with buffing items).

Thanks for liking it! Nice to have encouragement.

[Another_Poet]

I wouldn't put this rule in the hands of optimisers. But based on what you said about your group, I believe this rule is a good fit. It won't overpower anything, and I've often wished for a similar rule myself.

ap

[Godskook]

1.Can you do this with pre-metamagicked spells?

2.If done successfully, does it cost the higher slot?

3.You need to go into more detail on how this works for wizards, as a lot of confusion could be generated.

4.I agree, a 20 base is horrible for the DC. Low-level characters won't make it reasonably enough to justify the feat. On the other hand, 29 is ridiculously easy by 10th level. 47 seems excessive, since without intentionally devoting effort into being a metamagic user, you're looking at about a +30 at L20(i.e., no +spellcraft item). 15+2*spell level seems good, as it'll be challenging, but with dedicated effort, it can be auto-win.


I wouldn't put this rule in the hands of optimisers. But based on what you said about your group, I believe this rule is a good fit. It won't overpower anything, and I've often wished for a similar rule myself.

ap

Actually, its not that bad, considering you have to sacrifice your swift action to use it(thus, both spontaneous stacking and quicken are now off the table).

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Thank you all for your help!
Regarding the DC - a little maths and number juggling tells me that DC 15 + (3x new spell level) is from 50% down to about 45% success for your highest spells, without using feats, synergy bonuses and items... That seems reasonable enough to me.

I think I'm ready to rock 'n' roll with this rule, in the following format:


Metamagic effects may be applied as a swift action (a free action that you may only take on your turn) to spells you cast by making a Spellcraft check (DC = 15 + (increased spell level x 3)).

Failing the check means that the spell either goes off without modification, but uses up the higher spell slot. If you fail a Concentration check while casting a Metamagic spell, you lose the higher spell slot.
Metamagic spells takes no longer to cast, and metamagic effects may be applied spontaneously.
You must have the required feat to apply a Metamagic effect.
If you prepare spells, you chose which higher level spell to sacrifice to power the metamagic spell, and the metamagicked spell is cast in its place. The normal level version of the metamagicked spell is retained, and may be cast later.

Example: Altair the Wizard can cast 8th level spells. He has the feat Maximise Spell, and wishes to cast Fireball (a 3rd level spell) as a Maximised spell. He elects to sacrifice the 6th level spell, Legend Lore to power the metamagic. He makes a Spellcraft check, DC 33 (Maximise Spell uses a slot 3 levels higher, so 15 + (3 x 6) =33). If Altair succeeds, his Fireball deal maximum damage. If he fails the check, the Fireball damage is rolled normally, but he still must discard the 6th level spell to power the metamagic. In either case, he still has Fireball memorised to cast later.

EDIT: Or am I..? From the previous post, I seem to have missed something...

[Altair_the_Vexed]

1.Can you do this with pre-metamagicked spells?How do you mean "pre-metamagicked? I'm thinking this system will replace metamagic preparation, rather than run alongside it.

2.If done successfully, does it cost the higher slot?Yes, if you make your Spellcraft check, it costs the higher slot

3.You need to go into more detail on how this works for wizards, as a lot of confusion could be generated.I think I've cleared this up in the post above.

4.I agree, a 20 base is horrible for the DC. Low-level characters won't make it reasonably enough to justify the feat. On the other hand, 29 is ridiculously easy by 10th level. 47 seems excessive, since without intentionally devoting effort into being a metamagic user, you're looking at about a +30 at L20(i.e., no +spellcraft item). 15+2*spell level seems good, as it'll be challenging, but with dedicated effort, it can be auto-win.Thanks - running the maths leads me to think that 15 + (3x spell level) is about right. Hard enough to be tricky and need investment, but low enough to usually succeed.

Actually, its not that bad, considering you have to sacrifice your swift action to use it(thus, both spontaneous stacking and quicken are now off the table).Hang on - what? Isn't Quicken a Free Action?
It was my intent that one could use a Swift Action to Quicken a spell, and cast again in the round - but not another Metamagic spell, as that would need two Swift Actions.
Have I missed something about Free or Swift Actions? Or the Quicken Spell feat?

[Godskook]

How do you mean "pre-metamagicked? I'm thinking this system will replace metamagic preparation, rather than run alongside it.

I mean(even if it is no longer relevant, considering your new post): My 15th level wizard has an empowered fireball prepared in a 5th level slot. Can he then attempt to cast it maximized by using an 8th level slot?


Yes, if you make your Spellcraft check, it costs the higher slot
I think I've cleared this up in the post above.

Yes, you cleared that all up.


Thanks - running the maths leads me to think that 15 + (3x spell level) is about right. Hard enough to be tricky and need investment, but low enough to usually succeed.

That seems ok, too. Its just the 20 base that really seemed horrid.


Hang on - what? Isn't Quicken a Free Action?
It was my intent that one could use a Swift Action to Quicken a spell, and cast again in the round - but not another Metamagic spell, as that would need two Swift Actions.
Have I missed something about Free or Swift Actions? Or the Quicken Spell feat?

Quicken was a free action back before swift actions were defined. Now, it is a swift action. If you wanted to allow quicken, simply make your metamagic fix a 1/round free action, as that seems to work how you're expecting it would.

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I'd just like to point out that there's a feat in Complete Mage(yes, I know you don't use it) that, where allowed, gives sorcerers the ability to use metamagic in a very practical way.