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View Full Version : Max druid spells/healing 3.5



Prax4788
2009-09-17, 05:44 AM
Ok here is my deal

i have a halfling druid

im looking how to boost my healing and my call lighting to max

any ideas ?

also if i can someone get a unicorn or a air elemental it would help a lot

so far all i found is elemental savant battle medic

multi classing is an option
ps im male

JeenLeen
2009-09-17, 08:44 AM
The Healer base class from Miniature's Handbook focuses on healing and gives you a unicorn. It has an armor restriction and might have a violence restriction, but the former at least shouldn't add anything much more to a druid's limitations.
It's a pretty bad class, though, overall, and as it's a different full spellcasting class, you'd suffer in spellcasting from multiclassing.

If your character were female, Beloved of Valarian from BoED is a unicorn-based PrC--but only open to females.

I think there's a animal companion feat in BoED that can get you a unicorn animal companion. For an air elemental, you could take the Reserve feat that lets you summon elementals as long as you have a certain spell prepared. I forget the name, but it's in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage.

Edit: Stormlord prestiege class, if the requirement to worship Talos is removed (or if you worship Talos), probably helps your Call Lightning, but Elemental Savant is probably better.

jiriku
2009-09-17, 09:06 AM
The Augment Healing feat will improve the effectiveness of many of your healing spells by about 20%. Sudden Maximize will let you maximize your call lightning once per day without paying a surcharge in spell slots. The feat Born of the Three Thunders will give you a really cool call lightning, but dazes you, so you would want an effect granting immunity to daze. The Chain Spell metamagic feat will allow your call lightning to affect many enemies at once. Also, Extraordinary Concentration (I may be recalling the name incorrectly) from Complete Adventurer will let you maintain concentration on Call Lightning as a move action or a swift action, allowing you to cast other spells (like more call lightning!) while still calling down lightning bolts. At higher levels, the Energy Admixture feat would allow you to deal double damage with call lightning, and you could make half the damage lightning and half sonic (thunder) for extra coolness and flavor. Get weather control or summon a large air elemental before casting call lightning, as its an easy way to turn those d6's into d10's.

JellyPooga
2009-09-17, 10:58 AM
Also, Extraordinary Concentration (I may be recalling the name incorrectly) from Complete Adventurer will let you maintain concentration on Call Lightning as a move action or a swift action, allowing you to cast other spells (like more call lightning!) while still calling down lightning bolts.

Call Lightning doesn't require concentration to maintain, so wouldn't work in the way you imagine. It's a fixed duration spell that allows you, as a standard action, to call down a lightning bolt every round for the duration of the spell.

DireFrostWolf
2009-09-17, 01:02 PM
why don't you take the reserve feat "touch of healing" from complete champion, as long as you have a healing spell of 2ndlv r higher you can heal your allies until half of their total HP.

holywhippet
2009-09-17, 06:17 PM
What level is your character and what level of magic do you have access to? Rods that apply the maximised or empowered metamagic will help crank all of your spells up.

Akal Saris
2009-09-17, 06:40 PM
I'd just keep on going straight druid. SNA VI gets you a large air elemental, which boosts your Call Lightning damage when it's in whirlwind form. Likewise at 16+ you can just wildshape into an air elemental and get the damage boost.

For a unicorn, there is a Druid 6 spell in the Book of Exalted Deeds that you can cast, and it gives you a unicorn or a pegasus for a year. Cast that 1-2 times, and you're set there.

For healing, I would just get wands of cure light wounds rather than use up one of the druid's feat slots. Though if low-level magic items aren't available in your game, then touch of healing is alright.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 04:34 AM
My dm has asked me to mulitclass arcane

so how can i make a good arcane hirophant


can i still max out healing and damage from spells ?

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 04:48 AM
My dm has asked me to mulitclass arcane

so how can i make a good arcane hirophant


can i still max out healing and damage from spells ?

Multiclassing always ensures that you can't max anything out. Higher level spells are the key. That said, you can at least take Practiced Spellcaster to get something out of the deal.

For healing, the best deal is still Summon Nature's Ally IV+ for Unicorn(s). That's before the Heal-spell itself (level 7).

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 04:58 AM
Multiclassing always ensures that you can't max anything out. Higher level spells are the key. That said, you can at least take Practiced Spellcaster to get something out of the deal.

For healing, the best deal is still Summon Nature's Ally IV+ for Unicorn(s). That's before the Heal-spell itself (level 7).

so u saying this need for arcane in the group is going to gimp me ?


so than what would u sugest right now im a level 6 druid
he is letting me redo past levels for this

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 05:26 AM
so u saying this need for arcane in the group is going to gimp me ?

so than what would u sugest right now im a level 6 druid
he is letting me redo past levels for this

It's going to gimp you in the sense that you aren't going to be able to maximize your healing nor your damage that way, and that's what you asked.

Obviously, I suggest going straight Druid. Frankly, Druid spellcasting can cover much of what arcane spellcasting covers too. No need to multiclass. If you absolutely must multiclass for whatever reason, taking 1 level of Wizard with Precocious Apprentice [Complete Arcane] is the way to go.

This keeps you at almost full Druid-casting, Wildshape & Companion while giving you some Wizard-casting too. But really, straight Druid is better. Anyways, so I suggest either Druid 5/Wizard 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid +4 (or Druid 6/Wizard 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid +3 if not using Fractionals) or Druid 20.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 06:04 AM
Precocious Apprentice what is this ? i cant find it

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 06:06 AM
The reason is we keep neededing to find the proporties ot magic items cast dedet magic stuff like that
and use arcane scrolls

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 06:12 AM
Precocious Apprentice what is this ? i cant find it

Allows you to cast a 2nd level spell as a Wizard (though normally you couldn't). It's in the "training"-section of Complete Arcane.

As for scrolls, just get someone with Use Magic Device to use that. As for identifying, Knowledge-checks, Spellcraft-checks, Artificer's Monocle and a thousand other means exist for identifying; you don't need a Wizard for that. Practically all of above is in Magic Item Compendium, btw.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 06:31 AM
So wait the feat says it can be int of cha basses

so if i take sorrcer and use that to take only one level away from druid
than take praticed spell casting to increase my arcane caster level by 4
wouldnt this make me a force to reacen with or would my limited mage spells not be worth it

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 06:37 AM
So wait the feat says it can be int of cha basses

so if i take sorrcer and use that to take only one level away from druid
than take praticed spell casting to increase my arcane caster level by 4
wouldnt this make me a force to reacen with or would my limited mage spells not be worth it

Uh, you'd only have a single level 2 spell per day anyways, so not really. Sure, you could do some stuff, but you'd be giving up two feats (!!) from your Druid-stuff along with a level of Wildshape, casting and animal companion. Losing proposal either way.

Though if you want to multiclass, go ahead. But as a healer and a damage dealer, you'd be better off as a straight Druid, especially on these levels when you're still developing Wildshape.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 06:50 AM
so i guess even a straight arcane hirophant wouldnt cut it

so no way to double up on the spell casting and keep a desent spell casting

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 06:51 AM
so i guess even a straight arcane hirophant wouldnt cut it

so no way to double up on the spell casting and keep a desent spell casting

Well, obviously multiclassing makes you weaker in your primary pursuit. I mean, duh; that's the whole point of the system. But yeah, Druid/Wizard 1/Arcane Hierophant isn't horrible; it's just not quite as good as straight Druid on most levels.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 06:53 AM
than as a druid who needs to be a magic item monkey

im open to any ideas

arnt the wizard and druid OP anyway ?

Otho Trois
2009-09-18, 11:27 AM
Well, if you have access to Complete Mage, there is a Variant Class Feature near the beginning that drops your animal companion (Maybe something else, don't remember) for an elemental. Easy way to get an air elemental, that also improves as time goes on.

Glimbur
2009-09-18, 11:37 AM
arnt the wizard and druid OP anyway ?

Pudding is good. Steak is good. Steak + Pudding is... odd.

Wizard is good because they get spells that reshape the world in all sorts of different ways. Druid is good because they get a less varied but still useful assortment of spells, an animal companion, and wildshape. The problem with combining the two; even if you use Gestalt so you can take Wizard and Druid at the same time every level, is that you can only do so much in one round. Better to be able to Wildshape better and have more/higher level Druid spells than to pick up some wizard casting, from an optimization standpoint.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-09-18, 11:59 AM
Well, obviously multiclassing makes you weaker in your primary pursuit. I mean, duh; that's the whole point of the system. But yeah, Druid/Wizard 1/Arcane Hierophant isn't horrible; it's just not quite as good as straight Druid on most levels.


You need 2nd level arcane spells for Arcane Heirophant. I had a post I did on Arcane heirophants a while ago. I got ALOT of really good advice on how to max that PrC.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121582

if ALL you need is detect magic, i'd go with the Insightfull feat out of complete arcane. if you like the idea of arcane druidic powers with lightning and an awsome Companion
I suggest this you do the arcane heirophant.

Druid4 (take an animal, arcane heirophant will make it a ridiculous uber pet)/ Wizard 3/ Arcane heirophant 10.

Good feats to take are: versitile spellcaster, Augment healing, Naturebond(this will give you full companion progression AND that companion will also have Familiar progression at only a -4 levels), pretty awsome all in all. i'd also recomend the reserve healing feat mentioned earlier in this thread as a great feat to take.

JeenLeen
2009-09-18, 12:26 PM
This is a long shot, but is Leadership allowed? You could get a wizard cohort. A druid with a wizard cohort is insanely cheesey, though.

It's not as strong, but Warlock is good for UMD. I forget exactly how Warlocks can qualify for 'arcane spellcasting', though, so I don't know if you can go arcane hierophant. More limited spellcasting than sorcerer, I believe, but infinite uses/day.

Depending on your stats, Sorcerer might work better than Wizard if you need/want just a particular few spells and more uses/day.

Leewei
2009-09-18, 12:27 PM
A Lesser Metamagic Rod of Empower will help either cure X wounds or call lightning out substantially a few times a day, and will last you at least through level 6.

The Leadership feat can get you a Unicorn cohort. Alternately, see if the DM is open to the idea of allowing you to take a Unicorn in place of your Animal Companion and advance its AC, HD and so on at a -3 penalty at the cost of a feat.

A high Healing skill combined with healing lorecall boosts all your Conjuration[Healing] by a bit.

woodenbandman
2009-09-18, 12:31 PM
so u saying this need for arcane in the group is going to gimp me ?


so than what would u sugest right now im a level 6 druid
he is letting me redo past levels for this


You're a druid, you don't really need another caster. Druids can pull off what a wizard can almost as well. If it's damage you need, that's fine, but pretty much no matter what, a druid can do it. You just need to search for spells a bit harder.

tyckspoon
2009-09-18, 12:40 PM
than as a druid who needs to be a magic item monkey

im open to any ideas


Either find a way to get a good UMD score (you could get into Loremaster and dump points + the Instant Mastery secret into it, but the prereqs suck for you, or just dip a high-skill class and throw all the skill points into UMD) or.. maybe dip a level of (Cloistered) Cleric with the Magic domain. That lets you use Wizard and Cleric wands and gives you the spells on your list for the scrolls, so the only thing you have to do is make the caster level check (and have a suitably high Int, but if you're considering classing into Wizard at all I assume you have that.) As a Druid your Wisdom should currently or very soon be high enough to auto-pass the check to avoid a scroll mishap, so you can just keep re-attempting the scroll until you roll well enough on the caster level check to activate it. Won't be very effective for in-combat uses, but you should have good enough real Druid spells for that, and you can get access to the arcane utility spells.

Or just stick straight Druid and get familiar with the contents of the Spell Compendium. The expanded Druid spell list is crazy versatile.

Eldariel
2009-09-18, 12:44 PM
You need 2nd level arcane spells for Arcane Heirophant.

Hence Precocious Apprentice, which grants you a 2nd level arcane spell.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 02:03 PM
well i worked out most of my problems

i just need ot know if i should do druid 4/wizard 3
or sorrcer 4

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-09-18, 02:12 PM
the AH companion class features do not work with the elemental companion alternate class feature unfortunatly. As the elemental companion does not gain HD NA or extra tricks.

It would be awsome if it did though.


OOPS and that question got ninja edited out. . . lol oh well.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 02:20 PM
the AH companion class features do not work with the elemental companion alternate class feature unfortunatly. As the elemental companion does not gain HD NA or extra tricks.

It would be awsome if it did though.


OOPS and that question got ninja edited out. . . lol oh well.

i soon found the anser myself but thanks anyway

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 02:21 PM
for the fluff of a halfling who "doesnt get it " as far as arcane goes

how does druid4/wizard1/Wildmage2/AH.......
sound ?

jiriku
2009-09-18, 03:20 PM
Prax, taking 3 or 4 levels off of druid to take an arcane caster will gimp you hardcore. You will be nerfed for the next 5 levels trying to recover from that. If you truly only need to identify items and cast detect magic, you can get those effects from cheap gear in the magic item compendium. Heck, you can pay an NPC to identify your stuff. Don't burn class abilities to get those things. Also, if there's anyone in your party who has use magic device as a class skill, your DM can let that character reassign skill points to build that skill, and that will cover you guys for using arcane scrolls. If no one has UMD as a class skill, ask for the 3.0 version of the Cosmopolitan feat, which grants you an additional class skill and gives you a +2 bonus with it to boot.

Also, let me encourage you here: your group doesn't "need" the ability to cast arcane spells in order to be successful in a variety of encounter situations. High-level druid spells as worth far more in an encounter than a few piddly scrolls, and basic arcane spells can be made into potions or contingent spells as needed, or purchased from NPC spellcasters in large cities. If your DM is pressuring you to take arcane casting levels because "every d&d group needs a wizard", encourage him to be more flexible.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 03:29 PM
Prax, taking 3 or 4 levels off of druid to take an arcane caster will gimp you hardcore. You will be nerfed for the next 5 levels trying to recover from that. If you truly only need to identify items and cast detect magic, you can get those effects from cheap gear in the magic item compendium. Heck, you can pay an NPC to identify your stuff. Don't burn class abilities to get those things. Also, if there's anyone in your party who has use magic device as a class skill, your DM can let that character reassign skill points to build that skill, and that will cover you guys for using arcane scrolls. If no one has UMD as a class skill, ask for the 3.0 version of the Cosmopolitan feat, which grants you an additional class skill and gives you a +2 bonus with it to boot.

Also, let me encourage you here: your group doesn't "need" the ability to cast arcane spells in order to be successful in a variety of encounter situations. High-level druid spells as worth far more in an encounter than a few piddly scrolls, and basic arcane spells can be made into potions or contingent spells as needed, or purchased from NPC spellcasters in large cities. If your DM is pressuring you to take arcane casting levels because "every d&d group needs a wizard", encourage him to be more flexible.

i see what u mean but its just me and a fighter/barbarian so im the full spell caster/ utility
and i have wanted to try this for a while but wont the stacking of spell combos help like being able to stack barkskin and mage armor ?

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-09-18, 03:43 PM
i see what u mean but its just me and a fighter/barbarian so im the full spell caster/ utility
and i have wanted to try this for a while but wont the stacking of spell combos help like being able to stack barkskin and mage armor ?

If it's something you want to do cause you think it will be fun then do it. Fun is more important than optimized in a game.

As for combo's yes i'm sure there are some awsome combos with AH. . . like natural spell, Companion spell bond, wildshape, mage armor, Animalistic power. You're a spell casting Tiger with increased armor and increase str dex con and you have a sentient pet that benefits from the mage armor and the animalistic power and that can flank with you! WOOT

Leewei
2009-09-18, 04:00 PM
The Fighter/Barbarian can dip into Sorcerer and launch into the Dragon Disciple PrC. Sure, he'll lose a bit of BAB and class features. He'll gain access to several first level arcane spells such as shield, mage armor and true strike, and ultimately gain +8 to Strength. He'll also be able to use arcane spell wands and the like.

Can you imagine true strike followed by Barbarian Rage combined with bull's strength, the forementioned +8 Strength bonus and a full Power Attack? The thought makes me all tingly and I prefer to play subtle types.

jiriku
2009-09-18, 06:07 PM
i see what u mean but its just me and a fighter/barbarian so im the full spell caster/ utility
and i have wanted to try this for a while but wont the stacking of spell combos help like being able to stack barkskin and mage armor ?

Stacking those things is nice, don't get me wrong. And you're thinking about how to combine the spells, which is a smart way to play. But which wouldn't you rather have freedom of movement than mage armor? Or flame strike instead of burning hands?

Because basically what you're planning to do here is trade in your 4th-level druid spells for 1st-level wizard spells, and trade several d8 hit dice and wild shape uses for some d4 hit dice and the inability to wear armor.

Now, if you like the first-level wizard spells better than the 4th-level druid spells, and you don't want to be wearing armor or turning into a powerful wild shape form, go for it. There are endless ways to build your character, and what's right for me might be boring for you. But good golly, you can bring back the dead with a 4th-level druid spell, and you can...create a slippery spot on the ground with 1st-level wizard spells.

ericgrau
2009-09-18, 08:09 PM
Druids are behind in both damage and healing. Other things like battlefield control (entangle, sleet storm, etc.), utility scrolls for emergencies (lesser restoration, etc.) and between battle cure light wounds will serve you better. Maybe 1 or 2 high level cure spells for emergencies. Multiclassing will put you even further behind. Try magic items or NPCs instead, as suggested. Druids already get detect magic as a spell. Pay NPCs 100 gp + 10 gp x NPC caster level per item to identify them. For a bulk deal, maybe find a high level, legendary NPC wizard with analyze dweomer and get him to cast it for 60 gp x NPC caster level (minimum 11). He can identify a number of items equal up to his caster level for each analyze dweomer he casts.

Prax4788
2009-09-18, 10:16 PM
so if im going to go druid/wizard anyway

than is it a bad idea to go use wildmage to help get there

or is there any class that i can take will be a beter fit
like druid 4/wizard 1/???2/AH

also i should tell u im a aspect of nature druid
and if anyone knows whear i can find the dragon magazine
aspect of the dragon