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Lysander
2009-09-17, 01:40 PM
If you had a level 10 multiclass character with 1 level in 10 different classes, what's the best build you could come up with? What's the best build for a level 20 character with 1 level in 20 classes? Obviously this isn't an ideal character, just trying to see how much you can do with a lot of different level 1s.

Kobold-Bard
2009-09-17, 01:44 PM
If you had a level 10 multiclass character with 1 level in 10 different classes, what's the best build you could come up with? What's the best build for a level 20 character with 1 level in 20 classes? Obviously this isn't an ideal character, just trying to see how much you can do with a lot of different level 1s.

Unless you're going for unholy Saves, then unnecessary multiclassing is the path to success.

Idea 1:
You start with Barbarian/Warblade first for Maximum HP, then ideally you stick to Full BAB classes so you don't suck too bad, dropping into Monk for three good Saves and some AC bonus.

Idea 2:
Take a variety of classes and play a somewhat unusual Factotum style character.

Bakkan
2009-09-17, 01:52 PM
This will depend somewhat on a couple of questions:

1) Are we using fractional saves/BAB or not? If we are using fractional saves, can you get the bonus +2 from having a good save more than once?

2) Are Prestige classes allowed?

3) Does Precocious Apprentice (CArc) allow you to enter prestige classes requiring 2nd-level arcane casting?

If the answer to questions 2) and 3) are Yes, I would try to build a spellcaster by just stacking a bunch of prestige classes that advance spellcasting at 1st level. Something like Specialist Wizard 1 (with Precocious Apprentice)/Master Specialist 1/etc.

Telonius
2009-09-17, 01:52 PM
Are we using fractional BAB?

EDIT: Obviously any build I come up with must now contain at least one level of Ninja.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-09-17, 02:02 PM
Rough sketch would be: Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Duskblade 1/Cleric 1/Ranger 1/Horizon Walker 1/Frenzied Berserker 1/Bear Warrior 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1.

Starts off as a simple fighter type, Cleric is there for probably animal devotion and either travel, knowledge, or law devotion. Ranger is kind of a space holder, as is Duskblade. Horizon Walker nets you darkvision, and not much else, sadly. Frenzied Berserker and Bear Warrior should be obvious, as are the later martial adepts. Some of these could probably be dropped for some Swordsage, or maybe even a martial adept PrC.

Feats go toward either prereqs or power attacking goodness.

EDIT: Forgot that Horizon Walker makes you immune to fatigue. Go with that instead, much better choice.

SydneyLosstarot
2009-09-17, 04:15 PM
how about
Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Lurk 1/Psionic rogue 1/Spellthief 1/Fighter 1(UA sneak attack variant)/Scout 1/<some PrC granting precision damage>/<another PrC granting precision damage>/Swordsage 1(for Asassin's stance)

add the feat Craven, find a way to become invisible, shoot for 11d6+10 bonus damage.

would be fun roling all those dice)

lsfreak
2009-09-17, 04:31 PM
add the feat Craven, find a way to become invisible, shoot for 11d6+10 bonus damage.

Swordsage does that for a round. Also gives flanking for 1 round. Drop one of the PrC's and grab lion totem barbarian for pounce.

Akal Saris
2009-09-17, 05:47 PM
Isfreak, his character has +1 BAB at 10th level - he doesn't really need pounce that badly =P (Barbarian 1 is still a good dip for rage tho!)

Let's see...

Half-Drow Conjurer 1/Binder 1/Drow Paragon 1/Anima Mage 1/Master Specialist 1/Red Robe 1/Alienist 1/Mindbender 1/Ruathar 1/Fatespinner 1/Alienist 1

Feats:
1st: Extend Spell (Used for Red Robe and Anima Mage)
1st flaw: Spell Focus (Conjuration) (Used for Red Robe and Master Specialist)
1st flaw: Precocious Apprentice (Summon Monster II)
1st bonus: Scribe Scroll
3rd: Improved Binding (used for Anima Mage)
6th: Augment Summoning
9th: Mindsight

Rough spots in the build:
-Assumes that the character qualifies for Drow Paragon instead of Half-Elf Paragon, which is reasonable given the specifics in the section on why Drow can't take Elf Paragon.
-Also needs Precocious Apprentice, because there aren't enough low-level +1 to CL prestige classes out there. If I could just find 1 for the 3rd level...
-Also needs flaws to qualify for stuff on time.

What he does: The character's a pretty typical conjurer basically, with CL 9, access to pseudonatural summons (As a standard action if he uses the Unearthed Arcana acf), 100ft telepathy and detection from mindsight, a vestige, and some other minor abilities.

lsfreak
2009-09-17, 06:00 PM
Isfreak, his character has +1 BAB at 10th level - he doesn't really need pounce that badly =P (Barbarian 1 is still a good dip for rage tho!)

There's a pretty big difference between 1 attack and 4. In this case, the difference is ~12d6+15 versus a possible 48d6+60. I assumed it was a TWF build, since it's based on precision damage.

ex cathedra
2009-09-17, 08:07 PM
how about
Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Lurk 1/Psionic rogue 1/Spellthief 1/Fighter 1(UA sneak attack variant)/Scout 1/<some PrC granting precision damage>/<another PrC granting precision damage>/Swordsage 1(for Asassin's stance)

add the feat Craven, find a way to become invisible, shoot for 11d6+10 bonus damage.

would be fun roling all those dice)

You can only pick up first level stances as a level 1 swordsage. You need a second level for Assassin's Stance.

woodenbandman
2009-09-17, 09:17 PM
Well I'd definitely dip all the martial adepts, and I might even go into Blade Dancer. Dragoon style characters multiclass a lot as it is. I'd probably go something like Stalwart Battle Sorceror 1/Fighter1/Psywar1/Crusader1/Warblade1/Swordsage1/Barbarian(either pounce or fast movement)1/Cleric1/Blade Dancer1/Bear Warrior1. Feats of importance are Battle Jump, Martial Stance (Leap of the Heavens), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Travel Devotion, Power Attack, and Up The Walls.

So what you do is: Have good charisma. Run up and jump on some poor fool (with your 70 foot move speed). Pounce for 2 or 3 lance hits (Whirling Frenzy). Do a buttcrap of damage. Then you spring away.

SydneyLosstarot
2009-09-17, 11:30 PM
Isfreak, his character has +1 BAB at 10th level - he doesn't really need pounce that badly =P (Barbarian 1 is still a good dip for rage tho!)
he should kinda have at least +6/+1, since i see no good reason not to use fractional BAB.


You can only pick up first level stances as a level 1 swordsage. You need a second level for Assassin's Stance.

having 9 non-martial adept levels counts as 4 initiator levels for the purposes of determining maximum level of maneuvers/stances known, does it not?

if you lack any martial adept levels, your initiator level is equal to 1/2 your character level

gorfnab
2009-09-18, 02:40 AM
Well here's a build, more or less, that has +0 BAB (well BAB 20 with Divine Power), 9th level divine spells, and 8th level arcane spells. I really do not recommend this build but it does prove you can build a character with 1 level in 20 different classes.

Human LE
1. Wizard (Conjurer UA) - Precocious Apprentice, Able Learner, Spell Focus Evil, Spell Focus Conjuration, 2x flaws
2. Binder
3. Factotum - Iron Will
4. Totemist
5. Dread Necromancer
6. Ur-Priest - Skill Focus Knowledge Religion
7. Divine Oracle
8. Ruathar
9. Paragnostic Apostle - Spell Penetration
10. Nar Demonbinder
11. Thaumaturgist
12. Demonwrecker - Shape Soulmeld
13. Contemplative
14. Mindbender
15. Mystic Theurge - Bonus Essentia
16. Sapphire Hierarch
17. Visionary Seeker
18. Fatespinner - Incarnum Spellshaping
19. Soulcaster
20. Geomancer

Draz74
2009-09-18, 12:29 PM
Well here's a build, more or less, that has +0 BAB (well BAB 20 with Divine Power), 9th level divine spells, and 8th level arcane spells.

... You know other PrCs can't advance the Mystic Theurge dual spellcasting, right?

JaxGaret
2009-09-18, 12:39 PM
... You know other PrCs can't advance the Mystic Theurge dual spellcasting, right?

This.

Both the 1-10 and 1-20 build will be optimized by a whole bunch of +1 spellcasting progression PrCs at the latter end. The only interesting choice is what you do with the build before you reach that first casting PrC (IIRC the lowest level a character can enter a PrC with full spellcasting progression for its first level is either 4th or 5th). The rest is just jumping through hoops to ensure access to enough PrCs.

ex cathedra
2009-09-18, 12:49 PM
having 9 non-martial adept levels counts as 4 initiator levels for the purposes of determining maximum level of maneuvers/stances known, does it not?

It does. However, all of the stances given to first-level initiator classes are specifically first level stances.


You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any disciple open to you.

lsfreak
2009-09-18, 01:00 PM
It does. However, all of the stances given to first-level initiator classes are specifically first level stances.

The key being that the character is not beginning play, but has already been played through multiple levels. It's an ambiguity that comes down to "ask your DM," because both RAI and RAW are slightly ambiguous.

gorfnab
2009-09-19, 04:10 AM
... You know other PrCs can't advance the Mystic Theurge dual spellcasting, right?

Yes I did. The build gets 9th level divine spells from the Ur-Priest spellcasting (Mystic Theurge is only advancing 1 level of Ur-Priest Casting and 1 level of Nar Demonbinder casting) ,1st and 2nd level spells from wizard, and 4th-8th level spells from Nar Demonbinder.

Ur-Priest casting is being advanced by Divine Oracle, Ruathar, Paragnostic Apostle, Thaumaturgist, Demonwrecker, Mystic Theurge, Contemplative, and Sapphire Hierarch. (Need a Wisdom of 28 to get one 9th level divine spell out of this build though)

Nar Demonbinder casting is being advanced by Mystic Theurge, Fatespinner, Soulcaster, Mindbender, Visionary Seeker, and Geomancer.

The Wizard with Precocious Apprentice is just there to meet prereqs of ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells. (Cheesy but it makes the build work).

As you can see this build was more of a thought experiment than a usable build idea. Unless of course you want to be one of the weirdest summoners out there.