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Thurbane
2009-09-17, 09:20 PM
In our last EttRoG game, we came accross a Cleric and his 6 Bar Lgura skeletons. The skeletons were boosted with several undead creation feats from Libris Mortis (boosted STR & HP, cold damage on each attack, explode in a burst of negative energy when destroyed).

The book lists these "skeletons from hell" as CR3 - should their CR be increased because of their added abilities? Our Dwarf Fighter died in this fight (after succumbing to a Confusion spell, then getting stuck in melee with the skeletons. This is the second time he's died - I feel really bad because the player is overseas for a month and I'm running his character...), but the fight only yielded 330xp each.

Darcand
2009-09-17, 09:48 PM
It's worse then you think. Technically, because they were encountered with the cleric who made, if the DM took the cost of creating them out of the NPC's WBL, the undead are actually CR 0.

Thurbane
2009-09-17, 09:49 PM
It's worse then you think. Technically, because they were encountered with the cleric who made, if the DM took the cost of creating them out of the NPC's WBL, the undead are actually CR 0.
No, AFAIK the book noted them as CR3 creatures as part of the encounter.

jiriku
2009-09-17, 09:53 PM
I have seen a set of houserules on the web suggesting CR increases for corpse-crafted undead, but can't find it right now. Generally, corpsecrafter is good for about a +0.5 CR increase, while the other feats are good for about +0.25 CR increase. But these are mere suggestions.

shadow_archmagi
2009-09-17, 09:54 PM
In our last EttRoG game, we came accross a Cleric and his 6 Bar Lgura skeletons. The skeletons were boosted with several undead creation feats from Libris Mortis (boosted STR & HP, cold damage on each attack, explode in a burst of negative energy when destroyed).

The book lists these "skeletons from hell" as CR3 - should their CR be increased because of their added abilities? Our Dwarf Fighter died in this fight (after succumbing to a Confusion spell, then getting stuck in melee with the skeletons. This is the second time he's died - I feel really bad because the player is overseas for a month and I'm running his character...), but the fight only yielded 330xp each.

I'd say that bonus damage from STR, bonus to hit from STR, bonus HP, bonus cold damage, and then bonus negative damage plus bonus negative healing should add up to a significant increase.

Thurbane
2009-09-17, 10:36 PM
Well, compared to other CR 3 skeletons, like a troll, these things were real monsters...

Incorrect
2009-09-18, 01:14 AM
What would the ekstra +LA be for an undead character, created with all the corpsecrafter feats ?
Its basicly free with a minor backstory adjustment, but what would be fair?

tyckspoon
2009-09-18, 01:38 AM
What would the ekstra +LA be for an undead character, created with all the corpsecrafter feats ?
Its basicly free with a minor backstory adjustment, but what would be fair?

For most of them, I would say none. Corpsecrafter itself mostly just helps counter some of the weaknesses you take on when you become undead- remember, Undead have no Con score, so the extra HP is just helping you catch up to the +2-+4 or more your living party members are getting per HD. The Strength bonus is either useless to your character concept or one you are going to get anyways, since Enhancement is the most common bonus type in the game, so I wouldn't count that toward any LA either. Destructive Retribution and Deadly Chill are pretty pointless for a PC; one is a cheap magic effect that only works on natural weapons, and the other is a fairly weak effect that only goes off when you die, when you're usually rather more concerned about whether or not you can come back.

Hardened Flesh and Nimble Bones are both useful things to have, and would probably be given an LA by WotC's designers. They tend to very strongly err on the side of caution when assigning LAs, tho, and I would consider what else the character has already paid to be undead when looking at it. Most of the ways you can be undead are pretty expensive, whether already paid in LA, in gold, or in XP, and I would find throwing another LA on top of it to be unfairly punitive.

Thurbane
2009-09-21, 09:30 PM
Personally, I believe if a monster is significantly tougher than an equivalent unmodified by feats, it should really warrant a CR boost, even if only 1 or so.

ericgrau
2009-09-21, 11:09 PM
Certainly. Harder fights = more CR. Unless the cleric spent his own resources boosting them and you fight them and the cleric at the same time. Then those boosts are part of the clerc's CR, and theirs is still CR 3.

Mitth'raw'nuruo
2009-09-21, 11:19 PM
I would assume since the cleric that made them was there, HE was made weaker by having to take the corpse crafter feats.

So even though his minions were slightly harder then normal minions for his level, he lost meta-magic feats, divine feats, so on and so forth. Sounds like the CR was done right.