Arena Tournament, Round 62: Motorcycle Vs Big Splash

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 62: Motorcycle vs. Big Splash

Map:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z123/TheChilliGod/Giantitp/Arena1i.gif
The Arena walls for this map are 30 ft high, with a Climb DC of 30. The pillars are 15 feet tall with a Climb DC of 15.

XP Award: 300xp
GP Award: 300gp

Motorcycle (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=143140)
Ganurath - Big Splash (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=125655)

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare any final purchases. Remember that this is a single elimination Endurance tournament: all damage and effects taken in your last match carry over, with one hour between matches.

[madtinker]

This should actually be against Big Splash, but I'll do purchases and initiative while I wait.

Sell: chain shirt
Buy: masterwork chain shirt
Buy Shield of Faith +2
Buy Magic Weapon (oil)

Init [roll0]

[madtinker]

Ref question:Creative use of potion; while it takes a standard action to drink a potion, RAW clearly states that the potion must be swallowed. Can I use a standard action to put a potion in my mouth and a free action later on to sctually swallow it?

Opponent question: How do your force screen tatoos work?

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

Opponent error corrected. Thanks for alerting us.

@madtinker, Refs
An interesting question, and I'd be interested to hear what my fellow refs think.

I'm inclined to rule 'No'.
I'd take the swallowing stipulation to be a definition of the term 'drinking' such to exclude characters incapable of consuming fluid and also to stipulate that an unwilling drinker can not be force-fed a potion so long as they remain awake and alert to refuse to swallow.

Also, there is no action definition of a swallowing action.
While it could be a free action, it could just as easily be considered similar to speaking a Command Word to activate a magic item - a standard action - with the transferring of the potion to being held in the mouth a free action, or possibly with both being standard actions when taken separately.

Since I am unaware of any RAW separation of the act of 'drinking' and the act of 'swallowing,' and since Arena Precedent frowns upon the creation of new rules I'm disinclined to endorse a rule expansion here.

[Sallera]

madtinker, Refs:I'd also say no. The alchemical capsules from Complete Scoundrel, if memory serves, are still a standard action to drink, and they're already in your mouth. (Of course, if they're not a standard action, that might change things, but I'm at work and can't check.)

[madtinker]

@Refswell then, to increase potion capacity, would it be alright to do as Psidog suggests and use two standard actions (or one standard and one move): one to put it in my mouth and another to swallow? My idea was to effectively have a "fairy in a bottle" to use whenever I got hit, but if I can hold a potion in my mouth, that would be almost as good.

And for the record, I have taken seven damage from my last match, and used my rage for the day. As near as I can tell, you are undamaged. Can I know which spells you have cast, or do I need to search for the old matches?

[Ganurath]

"Opponent question: How do your force screen tatoos work?"

They're like potions, only they cost as much as scrolls and are more versatile in their range of effects. Force Screen grants a +4 shield bonus to AC for a minute as a psionic tatoo. Rules at the bottom (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/psionicItemsCCDT.html).

[roll0]

No purchases. Thanks to Adaptive Style, I can regain all of my manuevers with a full round action, so previous uses are rather moot. I removed the tatoo I used last match, though, so I only have one left.

Manuevers are as follows:
Mighty Throw, Shadow Blade Technique, Burning Blade, Sapphire Nightmare Blade

[madtinker]

Motorcycle, Rd 1
Begin with potion of CLW in hand. Standard action: drink potion, heal [roll0]. Move to U16, drawing potion of shield of faith as part of move.

Stats
HP 13/2120 + whatever I healed above. Edit: 15/20
AC 21, T 15, FF 17
Location U16

Done

[Ganurath]

BSDouble move from B5 to H10, activating my Step of the Wind stance as a swift action. Starting with my dagger in hand.
Stats:HP: 12/12
AC: Full 17, FF 14, Touch 14, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Turn Complete.

[madtinker]

Assuming no LoS. If there is LoS, I'l revise.
Motorcycle, round 2
Drink potionshield of faithMove from U16 east to M17, drawing bastard sword along the way

Stats
HP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith Rd 10 rounds left

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Small clarification needed before I can do LoS
@Big Splash

Did you mean to start in B10? B5 is not a valid starting location.
Similarly, did you mean to move to H10 and not H5?

[Ganurath]

Yes to both. B10 to H5.

[Schism]

Madtinker, refs:I'm disinclined to allow the 'storage' of potions, as it were. There is a feat somewhere (CMage, I believe) that allows you to drink a potion and activate it as a free (or swift, I forget) action within the next few hours. Allowing somebody to store a potion in their mouth is more than toeing the line on this, I think.

No effect on play.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Thanks for clarifying that. It looks like we have LoS before Motorcycle's 2nd turn. Big Splash is in H5, while Motorcycle is currently in U16. It is Motorcycle's turn in round 2.

[madtinker]

Motorcycle, Rd 2 redo Move north to U10, drawing (as part of move) potion shield of faith hiding [roll0] (including penalties for full speed) and drinking said potion.

StatsHP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith 10 rounds left

Done

[Ganurath]

BSMove to P5, then activate the Force Screen tatoo.
Stats:HP: 12/12
AC: Full 21, FF 18, Touch 14, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +4 Shield
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Force Screen 10 rounds.
Turn Complete.

[madtinker]

Motorcycledrawing bastard sword as part of movement, move north to U9 and peek around the corner. Sneakily-(using two squares of movement) Hide:[roll0], Move silently: [roll1]. (Note: this is not the entirety of my move action)

Not done, need LoS

[Scorer]

Hi Ref Scorer

@refs

Let's roll Big Splash's spot [roll0]



@Motorcycle

When you peek, you see Big Splash in P5


@Big Splash

No LoS

[madtinker]

Motorcycle
Move to Q6 and attack with bastard sword.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage[roll1]
Crit Confirm [roll2]
Damage [roll3]

Stats: HP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith 9 rounds left

Done

[Ganurath]

BS

Burning Blade, Shadow Blade Technique, followed by a 5 ft. step to O6.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]


Stats:HP: 12/12
AC: Full 21, FF 18, Touch 14, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +4 Shield
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Force Screen 9 rounds.
Turn Complete.

[madtinker]

Both Attacks miss.
Five foot step to P6 and attack again
[roll0]
[roll1]
Crit Confirm[roll2]
Damage[roll3]

StatsHP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith 8 rounds left

Done

[Ganurath]

BS

I'll take a total defense action, followed by a move action to L6. Enjoy your AoO.

Stats:HP: 12/12
AC: Full 25, FF 18, Touch 18, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +4 Shield, +4 Dodge
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Force Screen 8 rounds.
Turn Complete.

[madtinker]

Like the man said, AoO.

Attack[roll0]
Damage[roll1]

Thinking....

[madtinker]

Move action to L5. moving high enough in a circle to avoid moving through M5 and provoking an AoO.

Try the sword swinging thing again, with bonus for higher ground.
[roll0]
Damage [roll1]

StatsHP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith 7 rounds left

Edit: Done

[Ganurath]

BS

Sapphire Nightmare Blade, followed by a 5 ft step to K7.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]

Stats:HP: 12/12
AC: Full 25, FF 18, Touch 18, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +4 Shield, +4 Dodge
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Force Screen 7 rounds.
Turn Complete.

[madtinker]

Do I need to worry about concentration, or just the attack? If just the attack, then you missed again.

Before my turn, ref question:If I bull rush him backward to K8 or L8, is he in the Lava, or on the edge of the cliff? The map shows a little bit of cliff in those spaces, I just want to be sure.
Edit: If so, would I get a +1 to the strength check because of the higher ground (attacks get +1, so this is like an attack, yes?)

[Scorer]

High Ref Scorer

@Madtinker


If you succed your bull rush, you would throw him in a half ground-half lava square. I beleive this counts as "exposure" as map says. And no, you don't get +1 attack, because the +1 is a relative bonus: "Higher Ground" and you both are on the same higher ground, so relatively, you're not in higher ground.

[madtinker]

Motorcycle
Thoughts:From previous matches, his AC must be in the mid twenties now, way too high for me to reasonably hit. I think he's used all his maneuvers, so he is trying to keep his distance in order to recover them. I need to keep pressing the attack, but I'll never hit him, so I have to do something different.
Here goes! Move action from L5 to I5 and then J6. Bull rush!
Take an AoO, then make a strength check.
My Strength check: [roll0] If you lose, you should end up in L8

stats:HP 15/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location M17
Shield of faith 6 rounds left

[Ganurath]

Ref Question:Can I use a manuever, specifically Mighty Throw, as an attack of opportunity?

[Sallera]

Ganurath:No.

[Ganurath]

Well, since that option is out, let's make that attack of opportunity.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

As for the opposed check...

[roll4]

Mind explaining how it is that your halfling got a +2 modifier after the -4 size penalty?

[madtinker]

Oh, I figured we were the same size, taking an equal penalty so I forgot it. But you're right, it should be a -2. But my roll is still a 15.

And the AoO hits, but is not a crit,

Since I beat your check by five, if I need to, I'll push you all the way into the lava (in case you weren't already there, but not so that I am exposed to it.

[Ganurath]

...That would require that you follow into L8.

Ref Question: Can I make a Climb(?) check to grab the ledge?

[madtinker]

Stupid non-straight lines! Fine, yes, in order to fully immerse you I will expose myself to the lava.

[Lubirio]

Yes you can, DC15.

That's assuming the Lava starts at least 10ft below the ground level, if it doesn't you just go in...

[Ganurath]

No whammies no whammies no whammies stop!

[roll0]

[madtinker]

Hmm...I'm not so sure. But then, I am not a disinterested party. The grab ledge is a reflex save if you miss a jump; I know people have been pushed off this before, but I don't recall them getting a save. I might be wrong, just saying what I remember.

Edit: Guess it doesn't matter.

[Lubirio]

Doesn't matter now anyway, BS, roll 20d6 fire damage, Motorcycle rolls 2d6 fire damage, applied simultaneously.

[madtinker]

2d6 fire damage, coming right up [roll0]

Edit II: And, I know this is overkill, but curiosity says he should also take teh 2d6 for passing through that square of exposure. Shouldn't matter though...

Edit: StatsHP 5/20

[Ganurath]

How come Motorcycle only takes 2d6? He's in the volcano just as much as BS.

[madtinker]

Because I'm in a square that isn't fully covered by lava. At least, that's how I understood it.

[Sallera]

No, I'm fairly sure standing in L8 involves immersion. However, I'm skeptical of your ability to bull-rush him back the additional 5ft while in midair without a fly speed...

[Ganurath]

No, I'm fairly sure standing in L8 involves immersion. However, I'm skeptical of your ability to bull-rush him back the additional 5ft while in midair without a fly speed...The Bull Rush has the attacker in the same square as the defender for most of the ride, and a combination of momentum and inertia makes it plausible if the attacker only just got into the air.

[Sallera]

Well, certainly, by logic it's far from impossible. But by RAW, would you both start falling as he moves with you into L8?

Edit: That and I think you both take 1d6 falling damage. And yes, High Ref. :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

...High Ref?

[Lubirio]

1d6? that's the damage for the second round of contact... and L8 isn't completely covered in Lava, I thought that would count as youching the lava, not immersion, because now that I've looked at some other games involving the lava, it's a ground level, so no fall, just some pushing into. and besides, otherwise the 2d6 damage for touching the lava would be futile because all contact would be total immersion. :smallwink:

[Sallera]

The lava's ground level, yes, but K7, where they started, is 10ft up.

[madtinker]

If I can't push him in mid air, would he just fall off the cliff and into the lava? = 3d6 total?

Edit: Basically, I'm just really confused about what is "exposure" and what is "immersion." we all know logic usually fails, but the original intent of the bull rush was to put him in L8, where I thought he would drown to a horrible fiery death. In truth I did fail to note the significance of the cliff, so I thought I could, if L8 was only exposure, bull rush him the rest of the way into the lava. It being clear that bull rushing in mid air happens only on saturday morning cartoons, I guess this doesn't happen. From the rolls that have taken place we know that 1. he lost the strength check and 2. goes at least to L8 (straight back). It seems that since this square has only a sliver of non-lava, he should be immersed, but who knows? When has DnD ever been logical (which argument could negate my saturday cartoon point)?

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

Oh boy, the joys of lava.

Definitions:
Total Exposure: You fall completely into the lava. *splash*
Exposure: You touch the lava.

Precedent has stated that a character may stand in a square that's partly land and partly fluid, so it is possible to stand in K-8 without taking the exposure damage.

More specifically, a creature may stand and land without penalty on a higher elevation surface provided there is sufficient area that a narrow-surface balance check is not required, otherwise balance checks are required. L8 contains about 2 sq ft of solid ground, corresponding to a 5 inch wide surface. I am unaware of any rule mechanic that allows a falling character to land on a narrow surface rather than continuing to fall through the air.

Falling Damage applies only if the falling character lands on ground.
A character who lands in a fluid (like lava) does not take damage for falling.

Catching oneself while falling:
If you are adjacent to a ledge you may make a DC 15 reflex save yourself from a fall.

Grabbing a cliff while falling (may be done in addition to the reflex save) requires making a (DC wall +20) climb check, or DC 35 for the lava arena.

High Ref Opinion:
The irregular shape of the +10ft elevation cliff is such that a creature shoved out into L-8 may not make a reflex save to grab the upper cliff. So, unless someone knows rules for landing on narrow ledges...

A creature pushed over L-8 may make a DC 15 reflex save to grab the L7/L8 cliff.
Success means they grab the lave pool edge and take 1d6 falling damage +2d6 exposure damage, saving themselves form a fall. (effectively falling waist deep into the lava)
Failure means they go splash and take 20d6 fire damage, but no falling damage since they landed in a soft fluid.

Also, a bull rushing character may push a foe out of any square they could enter as part of their straight line of movement. Since a character could step off the cliff into L-8 one could continue their bull rush pushing their foe even further out over the lava, but they would be unable to continue the bull rush past that point since the bull rusher would then start falling as well. However, I seem to recall that bull rushing creatures, like charging and running creatures, are not entitled to reflex saves when rushing over a cliff.


Now, did I overlook anything?

[madtinker]

Okay, so can I stick with what I originally intended in post #32, where I stated That I would push him as far as I could without exposing myself to the lava?

[Ganurath]

A creature pushed over L-8 may make a DC 15 reflex save to grab the L7/L8 cliff.
Success means they grab the lave pool edge and take 1d6 falling damage +2d6 exposure damage, saving themselves form a fall. (effectively falling waist deep into the lava)
Failure means they go splash and take 20d6 fire damage, but no falling damage since they landed in a soft fluid.On that note!

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

Edit: I'm alive! I'm at 4/12, but I'm alive!

...So, am I dangling from a ledge now, or what?

Edit2: Can I make a Tumble check to avoid that falling damage? I may need that 6 HP.

[madtinker]

Damage continues for 1d3 rounds at 1d6 damage.

As far as I know, pulling oneself up is DC 15 climb check.
You end your movement grasping the far edge. If that leaves you dangling over a chasm or gap, getting up requires a move action and a DC 15 Climb check.

And my current stats, assuming I can stop before running off the cliff: HP 13/20
AC 23 T 17 FF 19
Location K7
Shield of faith 6 rounds left

You're up.

[Ganurath]

Waiting for a Tumble ruling, but in the meantime let's see how many rounds I have to shake off lava:

[roll0]

[Tanaric]

I'm not aware of any circumstances in this case that would stop you from using Tumble to reduce falling damage, so my view is "go for it".

[madtinker]

Except that the floor he is trying to tumble on is a tiny ledge, so if it's legal, the DC will be very high, but not sure how high.

[Ganurath]

BS

Let's make that Tumble check to avoid the falling damage, Climb check up off the ledge, and roll that fire damage.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]

Stats:HP: 5/12
AC: Full 25, FF 18, Touch 18, +3 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +4 Shield, +4 Dodge
Saves: +5 Fort, +6 Ref, +6 Will
Force Screen 6 rounds.

Gonna wait for result of rolls, ref ruling on Tumble DC, and knowledge of Motorcycle's location.

[Scorer]

Tumble DC15 Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really is when determining damage.

So, I guess you now need someone to tell you what is the height of the fall...

[hustlertwo]

Would it matter, since he failed the climb check?

[Ganurath]

Would it matter, since he failed the climb check?A Climb check. Since the initial attempt fell short, I'll also use my standard action to try to Climb up.

[roll0]

Fail or succeed, Turn Complete.

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

A review of the falling rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#falling) leads me to believe that a tumble check is not possible in this scenario, as the tumble check seems to be possible only when making a deliberate leap.

Not that that matters, since the tumble rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/tumble.htm) state that a tumble check needs to be taken as part of a move action, which BS wasn't taking at the time.

Edit: rounding down to the nearest foot it was a 10ft fall.

[Ganurath]

So... BS kicks it from that 6 falling damage retroactively, then. 6+2+5=Dead.

[madtinker]

K, but I still need to know if I can take my action as stated in posts 32 and 52, where I don't follow him off the cliff. All the different input before Psidog's definitive answer had me a bit confused, so I'm still not sure if I ran off the cliff or not. If a ref can give a yea or nay, this round will be wrapped up.

Unless of course, I did fall off, then we'll need to decide who died first.

[Sallera]

No, as far as I can see, given your stated action, you didn't follow. If you had, then he would be unable to grab the edge, as you would still be pushing him.

[madtinker]

GG Ganurath. Thought you had me with those maneuvers and high AC. What is the source for swordsage, I might want to make one myself.

[Ganurath]

Same as every class with manuevers: Tome of Battle.

Ah, and GG.

[ArenaManager]

A reminder: whenever this match gets called, the winner of the tournament gets 200 bonus XP aside from the 300 for winning the match, to insure that a new level 2 character comes from this round.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Sorry for the wait.

Motorcycle is the Winner!