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Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 04:09 AM
Ok so I'm going to be playing in a 3.5 campaign starting at level 1 and I can't decide on a class, although I definitely want to be a half-dragon. I was hoping that someone could recommend a class to me which is competent in combat but also has some spellcasting or special abilities and doesn't suck ass (shugenja, hexblade) Also, psions are prohibited by the GM. Any ideas?
Thanks

weenie
2009-09-19, 04:24 AM
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Seriously, duskblade. It's a gish class in PHB2, gets full BaB, some spellcasting, can wear armor and also gets some nifty abilities, like casting spells as a swift action a few times per day and their signature ability, arcane channeling. Take Arcane strike at lvl 9 and you can go nova like there's no tomorrow.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 04:35 AM
Ok, but i just changed my mind about being a half-dragon as i just realised that the +3 LA is like a kick to the balls, so what race would you recommend? Oh and what's a gish?

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 04:39 AM
Ok, but i just changed my mind about being a half-dragon as i just realised that the +3 LA is like a kick to the balls, so what race would you recommend? Oh and what's a gish?

Gish = Fighter/Wizard. Name comes from AD&D-era Githyanki, who were famous for the combination of melee and magic. So what you want.

If you still want to be Draconic, Dragonborn of Bahamut [Races of the Dragon] seems perfect for you. No level adjustment, can be applied to any +0 LA race, makes you a Draconic creature with some sweet abilities (you get to choose one of three aspects, losing your old racial abilities) and -2 Dex, +2 Con.


Also, the other option to Gish: Be a multiclass Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion [Complete Mage] 5. Or Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 8/Spellsword [Complete Warrior] 1/Abjurant Champion 5. I personally prefer the multiclass Gishes to Duskblades as they get higher level spells. And higher level spells rock.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 04:46 AM
Thanks, thats awesome! and if i want higher level spells later, would i be able to go duskblade 6 a few levels in eldritch knight and then abjurant champion, or is it the wizard levels that give you the high level spells?

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 05:02 AM
Thanks, thats awesome! and if i want higher level spells later, would i be able to go duskblade 6 a few levels in eldritch knight and then abjurant champion, or is it the wizard levels that give you the high level spells?

Eldritch Knight, Abjurant Champion, Spellsword, etc. are prestige classes that advance any casting you already have. Therefore, if you take any of them after taking Duskblade-levels, you advance Duskblade-casting with them and that's not very useful (though you may want Abjurant Champion-abilities for a Duskblade). If your base class is Wizard though, they can advance the Wizard-casting which is worthwhile because those Prestige Classes have full BAB meaning you get to advance Wizard-casting while getting full BAB.

So no, you can't benefit of Duskblade 6/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion 5 spell level-wise. It's either Duskblade 20 (or Duskblade 15/Abjurant Champion 5) or Wizard/Fighter multiclass going into Eldritch Knight & Abjurant Champion. Both are doable; Wizard/Fighter is slightly stronger while Duskblade is simplier due to being a spontaneous caster.


And before you ask, yes, you could go Duskblade 3/Wizard 3/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion 5 and advance Wizard-casting with Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion. That's not very good though because you've already taken 3 levels in a non-Wizard class which means you'll be behind in Wizard casting levels.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 05:06 AM
Amazing, thanks. I'm gonna go with the duskblade, because i prefer simpler single class builds-I'm more about flavour than trying to get the most powerful character i can and also, builds which use more than 2 or 3 classes confuse the hell out of me

weenie
2009-09-19, 05:20 AM
Well, in that case the duskblade will work perfectly for you. It's a gish-in-a-can, so it will be pretty strong and fun even if you don't multiclass at all. You may want to take combat expertise and improved trip for some battlefield control action, since you need a decent int score anyway, but whatever feats you take it's really hard to make a duskblade, that doesn't kick ass.

Saph
2009-09-19, 05:44 AM
Yeah, if you're starting at level 1 Duskblade is really the only good choice for a gish in my opinion. If you try to build a multiclass gish you're going to have a frustrating period for several levels where you don't have enough tankiness to make a good fighter and don't have enough spells to make a good wizard, effectively making you the worst of both worlds. Then by the time you finally start to come into your own the campaign's probably over.

Duskblades, on the other hand, work just fine from level 1 up, and in fact around levels 1-4 they're one of the stronger classes out there - you get several of the best low-level arcane spells like Colour Spray and Ray of Enfeeblement combined with a d8 Hit Die and full BAB, and you get the duskblade's signature trick, Arcane Channelling, which combined with Shocking Grasp will one-hit-kill most of the enemies you'll be facing at those levels.

Gnaeus
2009-09-19, 07:38 AM
Since the OP didn't specify arcane casting, just casting and special abilities, along with fighting, the 2 best choices are:

Cleric and Druid.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 08:33 AM
Yeah, I considered a cleric for a while but they focus far more on spellcasting rather than combat and I wanted a better BAB. Ok so I've decided on a human duskblade (simply for the extra feat and skillpoints) but could use some advice on what weapon setup to go with, and is it worth using a feat to be able to use a bastard sword single handed with a shield?

JeminiZero
2009-09-19, 08:48 AM
Yeah, I considered a cleric for a while but they focus far more on spellcasting rather than combat and I wanted a better BAB.


The thing is that despite their apparent focus on Spell casting, they still out-melee the fighter. Their buffs can push the party in general, but themselves especially, into melee monsters. E.g. Divine Power makes your BAB equal to the fighter.

I also second Cleric or Druid. They are probably the easiest class to learn the game with.

AB
2009-09-19, 08:53 AM
Since you have True Strike as one of your spells, choose Bastard Sword and Power Attack as your Lvl 1 feats.

Zovc
2009-09-19, 09:21 AM
Since you have True Strike as one of your spells, choose Bastard Sword and Power Attack as your Lvl 1 feats.

With True Strike, you don't even need to be proficient with the weapon you're using. :P Why not just take quick draw and whip out the biggest weapon you can find when you want to True Strike? Then, you can always invest cross class skills into Iaijutsu Focus. X3

Am I powergaming right?

HCL
2009-09-19, 09:21 AM
Teifling if playing with LA buyoff, otherwise human

errr EWP bastard sword is a craptastic feat. Just use a glaive or greatsword for a duskblade, maybe spiked chain if you would want to do alot of attack of opportunities or tripping. My feat chain would go something like

Level 1: Power Attack, Travel (or Knowledge, Strength, or Animal) Devotion
Level 3: Obtain Familiar (raven if you can afford to get a good early wand: grease, enlarge person, cure light wounds would be good, or some scrolls. Otherwise get a bat and pump its Listen and Spot)
Level 6: Improved Familiar (assuming this is low level game, if it is running all the way to 20 get something else here and grab Dragon Familiar at level 9). Get an imp if evil, otherwise a salt, earth, or glass mephit. Max UMD, give it some of those good wands I was talking about earlier and a longsword for an earth mephit to lay down a beating.
Level 9+: Get Dragon Familiar if the campaign goes to high level, and some metamagics (quicken, empower, maximize are all good with shocking grasp for doing a lot of damage), maybe some more Devotion feats.

Zovc
2009-09-19, 09:28 AM
Level 1: Power Attack, Travel (or Knowledge, Strength, or Animal) Devotion
Level 3: Obtain Familiar (raven if you can afford to get a good early wand: grease, enlarge person, cure light wounds would be good, or some scrolls. Otherwise get a bat and pump its Listen and Spot)
Level 6: Improved Familiar (assuming this is low level game, if it is running all the way to 20 get something else here and grab Dragon Familiar at level 9). Get an imp if evil, otherwise a salt, earth, or glass mephit. Max UMD, give it some of those good wands I was talking about earlier and a longsword for an earth mephit to lay down a beating.
Level 9+: Get Dragon Familiar if the campaign goes to high level, and some metamagics (quicken, empower, maximize are all good with shocking grasp for doing a lot of damage), maybe some more Devotion feats.

Travel, Knowledge, Strength, Animal, and other Devotions are from the Complete Champion.
Obtain Familiar is from the Complete Arcane.
Improved Familiar is from the Complete Scoundrel.
Dragon Familiar is from the Draconomicon.

Just saying, I only knew where devotions are from. This guy seems newer.

jiriku
2009-09-19, 09:57 AM
Lightning warriors can be competent in combat with a little work, and make adequate spellcasters, considering the lack of a familiar.

Bang
2009-09-19, 11:59 AM
Yeah, I considered a cleric for a while but they focus far more on spellcasting rather than combat and I wanted a better BAB. Ok so I've decided on a human duskblade (simply for the extra feat and skillpoints) but could use some advice on what weapon setup to go with, and is it worth using a feat to be able to use a bastard sword single handed with a shield?

The bastard sword makes for a pretty crummy feat unless you're doing silly things with size modifiers. Even if you want a weapon which can switch from one- to two-handed in different situations, a longsword and another feat will probably do you more good than a bastard sword.

If you want to do the sword and shield thing, try combining a longsword, buckler and power attack. You can take the shield's benefits when you want them and two-handed fighting's benefits when you don't. This approach also leaves a hand free for spellcasting. If you use Complete Warrior, there's a feat (Improved Buckler Defense) which lets you gain the buckler's defensive benefits while two-handing your longsword.

Here are the feats I'd look at for a Duskblade:

CORE + PHB2:
Combat Expertise: The defensive boost is nice for a character who has to spread gear thin (buying spell boosters, offensive weapons, defensive items and whatever whimsy brings you). Also a prerequisite feat.
Combat Reflexes: Extra Attacks of Opportunity are extra damage and a longer peroid of battlefield control. The ability to make AoOs while flat-footed is also very nice (especially at low levels when base weapon damage is enough to kill things).
Defensive Sweep (PHB2): For an Attack of Opportunity-based build, this means an adjacent enemy must move or provoke. Typically, moving will provoke anyway. Useful if you want to clinch the extra attack per round.
Empower Spell: The Duskblade has a blaster's spell list. Your spells will typically do Xd6 damage, delivered in a ray or along with a melee attack. Metamagic makes that damage more of a threat. Take alongside Rapid Metamagic if you want to chennel Empowered Spells.
Improved Disarm: If you want to disarm, why not do it well? Yes, locked gaunlets can negate it, but how often have you seen those? Honestly?
Improved Initiative: Dry, but useful for every character. If you go first, you have more actions than your enemies. D&D combat is all about the action advantage.
Improved Trip: Stop enemies from taking their regularly-scheduled actions without loosing attack damage. Tripped enemies also take -4 to attack rolls and give you +4 while attacking them. This is one of the best core combat feats. Also, you can technically use trips to deliver channeled spells.
Power Attack: The default source of melee damage. Use with Arcane Strike, Knowledge Devotion and Swift Invisibility for best results.
Robilar's Gambit (PHB2): Gives the option to enter a 'stance' where every melee attack against you gets an attack and damage boost, but provokes an attack of opportunity. If you can out-damage your enemies or ignore their attacks through some method or other, this feat is incredible (especially past level 13).
Shield Specialization (PHB2): If you go the buckler or shield route, you'll want this. You'll want Shield Ward, anyway.
Shield Ward (PHB2): The best shield feat around. Your shield applies to your touch AC (rays are less scary) and to your defense against most combat maneuvers (trips, disarms, grapples, etc).

COMPLETES:
Arcane Disciple (Complete Divine): If you have a high enough Wisdom, you can draw a spell per level from one domain. Can add a bit of extra versatility to your spell list.
Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior): Trade spell slots for an untyped attack boost and damage boost. You have a lot of spell slots and damage is typically your job. You can't stack multiple spells burnt this way for attack bonuses, but you can stack them for extra damage dice.
Battle Caster (Complete Arcane): Cast in heavy armor. If you have low Dexterity and can't use Mithril for whatever reason, this might be worth your time.
Close-Quarters Fighting (Complete Warrior): Just because spellcasters can deal with grapples doesn't mean it's something they should have to deal with. This feat means you don't have to worry about being the big drooling monster's chewy toy. If you only play at low levels, it's a huge help. If you play at levels where Freedom of Movement effects are common, retrain it or skip it.
Combat Brute (Complete Warrior): Makes sundering viable by giving an extra attack (whether smashing gear is worthwhile anyway is going to vary from group to group), adds attack and damage boosts against enemies you've successfully bull rushed and increases power attack bonuses after a charge. Depending on your other feats and the way you play, it could well be worth your time.
Dimension Jaunt (Complete Mage): Once you have Dimension Door, this is an at-will 20 ft teleport. It's not the flashiest effect, but it's incredibly useful.
Elusive Target (Complete Warrior): Probably the best defensive feat in the game. It negates one of the most common sources of melee damage (Power Attack) and weakens the other (Sneak Attack). Also, making your enemies attack each other wins bonus points. Prerequisites are kind of a downer, but if you have Dodge and Mobility for some reason, this feat is gold.
Extra Spell (Complete Arcane): Depending who you ask, this either gives you an extra spell known from your spell list or from any class's spell list. If your group rules the latter, this feat can be worthwhile.
Improved Buckler Defense (Complete Warrior): Retain buckler's AC bonus while using your buckler arm in an attack. This is just about the only way to make shield-users work.
Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior): +1 HP/level. A bland but generally useful feat.
Karmic Strike (Complete Warrior): Similar to Robilar's Gambit, but with different prerequisites. Requires Dodge and Combat Expertise and has no BA requirement. Available by level 3, if it's your thing.
Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion): You have a high Intelligence, a shoddy skills list and you spend most of your time in melee. This turns Knowledge ranks into damage into an Insight bonus to attack and damage.
Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer): Slightly less useful for you than most melee characters, but it adds a lot of damage to any charge-focused meleer.
Obtain Familiar (Complete Arcane): Other people seem to love this feat for Duskblades. Duskblades are the only time I don't love this feat. The draw is typically that your familiar will have high BA (the same as yours) and be able to deliver touch spells for you. If this is something you want, take it. It also gives you Alertness on top of the basic familiar benefits (+3 to a skill or +2 to a save).
Rapid Metamagic (Complete Mage): Make metamagic viable as a spontaneous caster. Empowered Vampiric touches are nice to have.
Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior): Another charger staple. On top of its well-known Heedless Charge option (taking Power Attack penalties from AC instead of attack bonuses while charging), this gives the ability to turn a bull rush into a free trip against both the enemy you pushed and an enemy you push them into (combine with Improved Trip for a trip bonus and free attacks against both enemies) and the option of Bull Rushing at a diagonal (versatility never hurt anybody).
Sudden [Metamagic] (Complete Arcane): Once-per-day metamagic which doesn't increase casting time or spell level. The use of these will depend on how your group plays the game -- if multiple combats per day are commonplace, these will be pretty terrible; if you only have a fight a week, it won't hurt anything to channel a Maximized Empowered Vampiric touch for a round of that fight.

RACES OF:
Able Learner (Races of Destiny): Only pay 1 skill point for cross-class skills. For a high Int human with a shoddy skills list, this is superb. Also opens access to the Chameleon class from the same book. Chameleon and Channeling go together very nicely.
Magic of the Land (Races of the Wild): I wouldn't take this feat. No optimizer would. But some players like the ability to heal themselves independently, without depending on cure wands or healing belts.
Shielded Casting (Races of Stone): If you go the buckler or shield route, this prevents attacks of opportunity you normally provoke by casting spells.
Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon): Lets you play with spell slots like a Psion -- trade two slots of one level for a spell of the next level.

OTHER:
Martial Study (Tome of Battle): Look for some nice boosts and counters. You're probably set on the standard action attack front.
Martial Stance (Tome of Battle): Stances are all pretty damn nifty.
Shadow Blade (Tome of Battle): Add Dexterity to damage with certain weapons (doesn't replace Strength).

Aberration Blood (Lords of Madness): Small bonuses, look like a monster, prerequisite for other nifty Aberrant feats.
Inhuman Reach (Lords of Madness): Look even more like a monster and add 5 feet to your reach. Requires Abberation Blood.
Starspawn (Lords of Madness): Look even more like a monster. Gain flight ability. Only stay airborne for a short while at a time, but flight! Requires Abberation Blood and one other Abberant feat.
Parrying Shield (Lords of Madness): The poor man's Shield Ward. Add shield to touch AC, but not to defenses against maneuvers like grapples.

Fell Animate (Libris Mortis): +3 level metamagic; combine with Rapid Metamagic and channeling or just tack it onto your Seeking/Scorching Ray spells while you go for the finishing move. A creature killed by a Fell Animated spell turns into a zombie under your control. Whether it's a good feat or not, it is a damned nifty feat.
Fell Drain (Libris Mortis): +2 level metamagic; Any creature damaged by your spell takes a negative level. Combine with Rapid Metamagic, Vampiric Grasp and a level 13 Duskblade's channeling and things get silly.

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 12:14 PM
Just few points:


Improved Disarm: If you want to disarm, why not do it well? Yes, locked gaunlets can negate it, but how often have you seen those? Honestly?

The thing is, if anyone cares about their weapon, they WILL have Locked Gauntlets. If they don't, they can just draw another or whatever. Let alone natural weapons, casters, etc. It just doesn't do enough to warrant a feat outside a wholly humanoid martial campaign.


Shield Specialization (PHB2): If you go the buckler or shield route, you'll want this. You'll want Shield Ward, anyway.
Shield Ward (PHB2): The best shield feat around. Your shield applies to your touch AC (rays are less scary) and to your defense against most combat maneuvers (trips, disarms, grapples, etc).

These are decent, but Ghost Ward-enhancement from Magic Item Compendium auto-applies shield enhancement to Touch AC, so this is rarely worth it given how Duskblades just don't get feats. If it was only Shield Ward, maybe, but being forced to take Shield Specialization makes it expensive.


Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior): Trade spell slots for an untyped attack boost and damage boost. You have a lot of spell slots and damage is typically your job. You can't stack multiple spells burnt this way for attack bonuses, but you can stack them for extra damage dice.

I just like to repeat this for emphasis: YES, YES, YES! This is THE best feat a Duskblade can ever take. Now unfortunately, you can't take it before level 9, but immediately when you qualify, TAKE IT! Makes your insane number of spell slots worth it, especially since you're always attacking and works with arcane channeling and so on.


Battle Caster (Complete Arcane): Cast in heavy armor. If you have low Dexterity and can't use Mithril for whatever reason, this might be worth your time.

Probably not. Again, a feat for few points of AC just doesn't cut it for a feat. Later on, you're best off with a magical source of AC anyways.


Close-Quarters Fighting (Complete Warrior): Just because spellcasters can deal with grapples doesn't mean it's something they should have to deal with. This feat means you don't have to worry about being the big drooling monster's chewy toy. If you only play at low levels, it's a huge help. If you play at levels where Freedom of Movement effects are common, retrain it or skip it.

Probably not worth a feat, again. Handy effect, but too limited to pick up.


Combat Brute (Complete Warrior): Makes sundering viable by giving an extra attack (whether smashing gear is worthwhile anyway is going to vary from group to group), adds attack and damage boosts against enemies you've successfully bull rushed and increases power attack bonuses after a charge. Depending on your other feats and the way you play, it could well be worth your time.

You're still breaking items you'd be getting as loot, and most creatures have natural attacks of about the same efficiency as their non-magical weapons (you don't want to break magic weapons). If you take it, take it for the PA bonus. Really, again, Duskblade doesn't have the feats to go for this. Shock Trooper is more useful and easily accessible.


Improved Buckler Defense (Complete Warrior): Retain buckler's AC bonus while using your buckler arm in an attack. This is just about the only way to make shield-users work.

Due to the existence of Animated Shields, this isn't worth a feat for a non-Fighter.


Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior): +1 HP/level. A bland but generally useful feat.

Handy, but you can do better.


Obtain Familiar (Complete Arcane): Other people seem to love this feat for Duskblades. Duskblades are the only time I don't love this feat. The draw is typically that your familiar will have high BA (the same as yours) and be able to deliver touch spells for you. If this is something you want, take it. It also gives you Alertness on top of the basic familiar benefits (+3 to a skill or +2 to a save).

It's worth remembering other uses of familiars: Aid Another effectively giving +2 to any skill, they can make auxillary Knowledge-checks independent of you, are great Polymorph monkeys if you use the spells and can UMD things for you provided you have ranks in the skill.


Overall, when picking feats it's worth remembering that you'll very probably want Power Attack & Arcane Strike and you get no bonus feats outside Combat Casting as a Duskblade, so you can only really get one "chain" to a decent leve so it's worth making sure the chain packs a punch.

Bang
2009-09-19, 12:34 PM
It's worth remembering other uses of familiars: Aid Another effectively giving +2 to any skill, they can make auxillary Knowledge-checks independent of you, are great Polymorph monkeys if you use the spells and can UMD things for you provided you have ranks in the skill.

Yes, familiars are great. They just aren't so great for the Duskblade.

The Duskblade doesn't have any skills that are worth a feat to boost and doesn't have any of the spells that make sharing worthwhile. With a Duskblade or Hexblade, they are the liability they are often made out to be.

weenie
2009-09-19, 01:03 PM
In my opinion this are the feats that will pay off the most for a Duskblade:

Arcane strike(unfortunately you can't take it before lvl9)
Extra spell(if your DM allows you to use it to learn a spell from the sor/wiz list, i suggest Combust from spell compedium)
Power attack(you can cast True strike. Does it really need more explaining?)
Combat expertise(for improved trip)
Improved trip
Cleave
Knock-down(can be in the d20srd)

And that's about it. Duskblades don't get a lot of feats, so you really need to plan ahead. But the class is good enough to be doable without any but the most basic feats. Yes, I admit it, I'm a Duskblade fan :smallbiggrin:

woodenbandman
2009-09-19, 01:27 PM
Amazing, thanks. I'm gonna go with the duskblade, because i prefer simpler single class builds-I'm more about flavour than trying to get the most powerful character i can and also, builds which use more than 2 or 3 classes confuse the hell out of me

:roy:

CLASS DOES NOT EQUAL FLAVOR.

Good choice by the way, duskblades are cool.

Sliver
2009-09-19, 02:10 PM
Lightning warriors can be competent in combat with a little work, and make adequate spellcasters, considering the lack of a familiar.

But you can take the "Obtain Familiar" feat.. Its spellcasting suffers more due to his lack of specialization tho..

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 02:16 PM
wow. Thanks for all the input everyone and woodenbandman - I wasn't saying class=flavour, its just in my experience when multiclassing for a more powerful character, you tend to lose sight of the personality and motivations of your character in lieu of mechanical power. But maybe thats just because I have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time :) p.s. while you're all here ive been reading up on the Illumian race and am somewhat intrigued. Could anyone pass judgement on them?

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 02:19 PM
wow. Thanks for all the input everyone and woodenbandman - I wasn't saying class=flavour, its just in my experience when multiclassing for a more powerful character, you tend to lose sight of the personality and motivations of your character in lieu of mechanical power. But maybe thats just because I have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time :) p.s. while you're all here ive been reading up on the Illumian race and am somewhat intrigued. Could anyone pass judgement on them?

They're solid multiclass casters and for someone who doesn't plan on Save-or-Xing people, doable for a Gish too. Deriving your bonus spells off Str is definitely useful. That's probably the best option; ignoring Save-or-X effects and going Str SAD. They have few other uses too, but as said, most of the best ones fuel the multiclassing.

As for "losing sight of the character idea when multiclassing"...that's just you :smalltongue:

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 02:34 PM
...that's just you Eldariel, I didn't know you'd prepared bigby's crushing despair this morning :( anyway, does anyone have an opinion on favored souls as well? thanks

Diamondeye
2009-09-19, 03:12 PM
If you like martial adpets at all, another possibility is a mix of warblade/duskblade/Jade Phoenix Mage. In fact, with martial study you can even qualify for JPM without any Warblade levels. You just won't have a recovery method.

Pie Guy
2009-09-19, 03:24 PM
Lightning warriors can be competent in combat with a little work, and make adequate spellcasters, considering the lack of a familiar.

At that point you might as well go CW samurai. You have to contribute somehow.

Mongoose87
2009-09-19, 03:31 PM
If you like martial adpets at all, another possibility is a mix of warblade/duskblade/Jade Phoenix Mage. In fact, with martial study you can even qualify for JPM without any Warblade levels. You just won't have a recovery method.

From what I can tell Jade Phoenix Mage would appear to be awesome.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 03:47 PM
hmmm... what are warblades like?

Mongoose87
2009-09-19, 03:56 PM
hmmm... what are warblades like?

They get a competence bonus to Stabbery Checks.

Anung Un Rama
2009-09-19, 04:03 PM
meh. but i am eager to hear more of jade phoenix mages... do go on

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 04:10 PM
meh. but i am eager to hear more of jade phoenix mages... do go on

Warblade is like Fighter, except instead of having one kind of an attack, they have a dozen attacks and defenses and then a few different combat stances. Basically, instead of getting a dozen feats, they get tons of combat options. And Jade Phoenix Mage is a class that advances these abilities alongside Arcane Magic.

Bang
2009-09-19, 04:30 PM
does anyone have an opinion on favored souls as well? thanks
The Favored Soul is a dry and flaccid reincarnation of the Cleric. Just he has even fewer class abilities and his casting relies on two stats instead of one. There's nothing mechanically interesting for me to sink my teeth into and the class is even lacking compelling fluff.

I've heard there are some tricks you can play with the class, but I'm just generally not a fan.


hmmm... what are warblades like?
Depending on your group's play style, they can be very neat.

If you play with a group that goes out of the book, playing the rules as they're written, the Tome of Battle (and everything inside it) is a godsend. Anything that generates more decisions for a Fighter than his position on the map will make the game more engaging. A fighter character finally gets to make real decisions about what sort of attack he's going to try, which style of defense he's going to use.

If you're concerned about the balance of your game, it's easy to make Tome of Battle characters and Psions who work smoothly alongside each other. Warblades et al. are significantly more powerful than other non-casters (especially at levels 1-3), but still much weaker than casters (especially at levels 13+).

In some groups, ToB's a pain. If your game makes rulings based on the question "Would it be neat?" the ToB can be a huge drag. In a group where your -5 Power Attack with a maul can send an enemy flying toward a wall for extra damage ("Why not? You just hit him really hard!") or that by kicking a chair at the villain you can try to trip him at a distance and possibly leave him unarmed ("He kicked a frigging chair at the guy!"), the Tome of Battle can make combat more formulaic and less interesting: the book creates the cinematic effects you use in the game for you.

From what I hear in various forums, ToB is great for most players.
My experience might be an anomaly, but it's been that maneuvers are another layer of rules and that on top of feats, it's just too much.