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cloer
2009-09-19, 12:53 PM
hi, i need some help on my wizard build, im playng 3.5 forgotten realms, ill be starting at level 1 but the main campaign will be 5th to 15th

i got so far focused conjurer 5 (this is set in stone) and i got my feats picked out (i can still free up 1 or 2 to qualify for a prc) but after that i dont know where to go im thinking:

master speacialist 10/archmage 5
or
Divine oracle 10/Paragnostic apostle 5

the thing is even though the MS build looks tempting it really doesnt give me anything much exept the 10th level ability and CL increase and SkillF:spellcraft for archmage, and 10 levels for just that doesnt seem good.
Im taking collegiate wizard feat so the extra spells are overkill, and im not going to do a lot of summoning so minor and mediums school esoterica are practically useless, and the major one seems great untill you realise its only 3 times a day. Also i know i can get into it a level 4 but i need 5 levels of wizard for the spontaneous divination variant.

also any other PrCs you can recommend im going for BC and buffing (wish i can get incantarix but 4 banned schools is to much and im saving IotSFV for another build).

thx

Mongoose87
2009-09-19, 12:57 PM
You can enter Master Specialist at 5th level, IIRC.

Mordokai
2009-09-19, 01:00 PM
Malconvoker? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker)

It's like the alpha and omega of summoning :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 01:08 PM
You can enter Master Specialist at 5th level, IIRC.

Level 4, actually. It's designed so specialist Wizards can find divergent paths earlier.

cloer
2009-09-19, 01:16 PM
Malconvoker? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872758/Mastering_the_Malconvoker)

It's like the alpha and omega of summoning :smallbiggrin:



and im not going to do a lot of summoning so minor and mediums school esoterica are practically useless

i like malconvoker but i want to play more of a GOD than a summoner, in another build i had made i did have malconvoker, MS, paragnostic apostle (for the fast healing) and FS conj all in one. quite similar actually.

Mordokai
2009-09-19, 01:21 PM
My bad! I shall now go sit and corner and look embarassed :smallredface: :smallbiggrin:

Emmm... did anybody see the Dunce cap?

Bang
2009-09-19, 01:30 PM
also any other PrCs you can recommend im going for BC and buffing

thx
War Weaver!

See Heroes of Battle for details.
Tidesinger/Doc Roc wrote a guide on it a while back. It might be worth a gander.
--Edit: Link (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870806/War_Weavers_Handbook_Black_Tactica_Edition)!--

Godskook
2009-09-19, 01:41 PM
Level 4, actually. It's designed so specialist Wizards can find divergent paths earlier.

I'll see your level 4 and raise you a level 3. With precocious apprentice abuse, level 2(the skill rank requirements prohibit a level 1 entry, unless there's a way to get 5 ranks without leveling).

@OP, Master Specialist 3 gives you the necessary feat for Archmage access, so it is worth taking at least that long just to qualify for Archmage.

Abjurant Champion is decent too, if you can get a martial weapon proficiency without spending a feat on it.

cloer
2009-09-19, 01:42 PM
My bad! I shall now go sit and corner and look embarassed :smallredface: :smallbiggrin:

Emmm... did anybody see the Dunce cap?

please dont feel bad:smallbiggrin:

War weaver: IIRC it losses a caster level, and my party is pretty much into the whole everybody does his own thing so get away from me and go quilt someplace else.


Master Specialist 3 gives you the necessary feat for Archmage access

yeah but is archmage worth the 3??? im asking because i really dont know never played one. most of the prcs i dont have any practical experience with

no comments on divine oracle/par. apos.???

Bang
2009-09-19, 01:52 PM
War weaver: IIRC it losses a caster level, and my party is pretty much into the whole everybody does his own thing so get away from me and go quilt someplace else.
Lost caster levels don't hurt if a class is good enough.
See under: Malconvoker, Swiftblade, Ultimate Magus

...and does that second part mean that you don't want to focus on buffing? I'm getting mixed signals.


yeah but is archmage worth the 3??? im asking because i really dont know never played one. most of the prcs i dont have any practical experience with
The relevant feat comes at Master Specialist 1.
Wizard 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/Master Specialist 1/Archmage 5 wouldn't be bad by any means.


no comments on divine oracle/par. apos.???
The classes are bland. There's not much to say.

I prefer the 3 feats straight Wizard gains to the Oracle's class abilities.
Paragnostic Apostle isn't bad, but there's nothing unique about it.

Keld Denar
2009-09-19, 01:54 PM
I personally like Divine Oracle. Its not as flashy as say...Incantatrix or whatnot, but its pretty good. With Superior Resistance and maybe Insightful Reflexes (to get +int to ref saves), the evasion can really save you a lot of pain. Plus, the cap stone ability is freakin Persistant Foresight, 2 levels earlier than Foresight is normally accessable. This frees up a lot of 9th level spell slots that would normally be spent on this.

I'm also a HUGE fan of Commune. Sure, it costs you a little bit of XP, but its THE best divination spell ever. Creative use of Commune will allow you to tailor your spell list perfectly when you are going on really important missions. My FS Conjourer in a PbP game is just about to cast it prior to assaulting an extra planar fortress filled with corrupted angels...scary shiss!

cloer
2009-09-19, 02:10 PM
Lost caster levels don't hurt if a class is good enough.
See under: Malconvoker, Swiftblade, Ultimate Magus

...and does that second part mean that you don't want to focus on buffing? I'm getting mixed signals.

well you are rigth ill give ww another look, but the class just doesnt seem "sexy" enough. ultimate magus is the one were you get sorceror and wizard levels at once??? that sounds interesting any comments on that one? is it the same as mystic theurge but with sorc. instead of cleric???

Also i was talking about buffing myself, but im not against giving a bulls strength to the figther its just that its not normal party strategy, we usually kick down the door and hope for the best whit what we got, thats why i was thinking of getting a little more divination help.


The relevant feat comes at Master Specialist 1.
Wizard 5/Mage of the Arcane Order 9/Master Specialist 1/Archmage 5 wouldn't be bad by any means.

dont like mage of the arcane order, im taking versatile spellcaster feat so im pretty much a spontaneous caster starting at level 6 and with collegiate wizard ill have a wide spell selection, a 1 level dip od MS IDK i had not considered it.


The classes are bland. There's not much to say.

I prefer the 3 feats straight Wizard gains to the Oracle's class abilities.
Paragnostic Apostle isn't bad, but there's nothing unique about it.

funny thats exactly what i was thinking about the conjuror MS, to be onest i like the DO's abilities better but im wondering how they hold up in real play.

Abjurant champion is great but a bith though to qualify for me im a stronheart halfling with 2 flwas.

Im sorry im beeing a bit picky i know but i apreaciate the help.

Keld Denar
2009-09-19, 02:21 PM
Ultimate Magus IS really sexy, provided you do it right. The best builds are:

Beguiler1/Wizard4/UM10

or

Beguiler1/Wizard2/MasterSpec2/UM10

Either are the same, obviously MS is the better of the 2 but requires a bit of shananigans to get into (Sanctum Spell works great, although Precocious Apprentice + Focused Specialist works too).

The advantage here is the HUGE Int Synergy along with the fact that Beg1 gives you TONS of skill points and Trapfinding (if you find that useful). UM's best feature is the ability to dump spells from one side to metamagic up the other side. This gets you free Empowers, Split Rays, and even Quicken Spells eventually. Plus, Versatile Spellcaster is freakin amazing for mixing and matching spell lists.

The trick is to either be Illumian with the Krau sigil or to nab the Practiced Spellcaster feat for your Beguiler side. This increase your caster level, which is the only thing referenced when you choose where to put your odd levels on the levels of UM that don't progress both sides. This allows you to put ALL your levels into your Wizard side. By level 15, this means you are simultaneously a level 14 wizard and an 8th level beguiler (with 4th level spells). I'll trade 1 level of wizard for 8 levels of beguiler any day, especially since you can burn your Beg spells to metamagic your higher level Wiz spells for free!

Eldariel
2009-09-19, 02:24 PM
I'll see your level 4 and raise you a level 3. With precocious apprentice abuse, level 2(the skill rank requirements prohibit a level 1 entry, unless there's a way to get 5 ranks without leveling).

I meant you get the first level on level 4. So yeah, Wizard 3 entry. A way exists to get extra skill ranks on level 1, but that requires two feats and I don't think you can take them twice and you'd need 'em for two skills anyways to get in on Wizard 1, so that's probably not realistic.

cloer
2009-09-19, 09:37 PM
By level 15, this means you are simultaneously a level 14 wizard and an 8th level beguiler (with 4th level spells)

but what about after level 15 can you still keep advancing both sides?

KellKheraptis
2009-09-19, 10:00 PM
Within Doc Rock's War Weaver guide you will find Fred Astair. Marvel at the goodness of dual arcane 9's, and access to divine 9's via shapechange. Now, if you'd rather go more the Incantatrix route, get a Tome of Ancient Lore and the True Believer feat. Now, UA has a Transmuter variant that in theory means every spell (not every arcane spell, every spell, because every spell exists also as an arcane one in theory, thanks to Geomancer, Alt. Source Spell, etc.) exists as a Transmutation. Due to the wording of that item, it's in there. So banned schools mean NOTHING. FS Conjuration or Transmutation, Incantatrix 10 and Halruuan Elder 5 to cap it off. The fifth level gives Circle Magic, and I'd take it after Incanta 3, since then you can sooner be walking around with CL 40 20th level slot tac-nukes. Cast a massive debuff on one enemy, then the next round use Metamagic Effect to chain it to all his minions! All FORTY of them.

Last but not least, there is a way to get all the same goodness as an incantatrix without taking the class, but it depends upon whether or not BoEF is allowed. If it is, enter the Metaphysical Shaper. Got immunity to ability damage? Then you've got metamagic effect, only with 0 limits on uses per day. It's only 3 levels long, with prereq's you'll meet with your usual leveling routine, and the capstone is identical to Incantatrix, only with no clause stating it won't lower a metamagic slot increase below 1. So every +1 is now completely free! Tonight I'll post a build using that variation.