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View Full Version : tired of Drizzit Do Urden and his thousand clones.



Korivan
2009-09-19, 06:39 PM
Ok, I'm sure plenty of people here have seen them, yet another drow ranger desperat to throw off the stereotypical evil descriptor. Ya know, I liked the book, thought the auther was great, but really, how many times do I sit down at as dm with a new guy and what do you know.....A drow ranger, and this guys asking me how much a figurine of wonderous power: onyx panther is. TOO MANY TIMES, 8 and counting, 9 after last night. Seriously, what is the appeal to this emo elf? As a dm with a non-underdark adventuring campaign with all human/dwarf/etc., races in mostly human lands, it gets a little fusturating to hear this guy go off that people should be afraid of him, hostile, and whatnot. Not to mention the groans from his fellow players as I try to accuratly portray NPC's hostile and distrusting to them because of the drow.

So the above was more of a rant, and I'm sorry. A more serious question to the boards though. I've looked over Drizzit's stats in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I have to say, I'm dissappointed. How the heck is he a CR 18. One on one with even some of the single class fighters of the same level would wollup this guy in 1-3 rounds tops.

So what do you guys think? Why is Drizzit so often emulated? Is he good mechanicly? Whats the odds he could go up against half the builds the people on these forums come up with?

Dixieboy
2009-09-19, 06:43 PM
Drizzts stats were made to accomodate the stuff he did in the books.

It's quite hard to make a D&D version of any character without even giving them too many levels, breaking a few rules and/or ending up representing them very poorly, even if they are featured primarily in stories set in a D&D setting apparantly.

As for the "Drizzt clone" jazz, I've never, ever, ever seen one in use.
Ever.

Green Bean
2009-09-19, 06:45 PM
As for the "Drizzt clone" jazz, I've never, ever, ever seen one in use.
Ever.

Same here. Oddly enough, though, I've seen quite a few evil Drow describing themselves as "not another Drizzt clone"

Korivan
2009-09-19, 06:46 PM
I am soooooooo very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very envious of you two.:smallannoyed:

Athan Allgood
2009-09-19, 06:52 PM
I can't speak of the mechanics, as I don't have the initiative to look it up (Current Dex of 6 kills my init rolls).

However, as for the reason Drizzt is emulated so often... well, he's cool, that's the short story.

Going a little more in depth, lets look at the "stereotypical" gamer:

- At times feels ostracized by, or at the least 'different' than many of those around 'him'
- Is deeply loyal to those who he has formed bonds of friendship with
- Is looking for a path of happiness/ acceptance/ empowerment in life.

Sound like any dark elves you may know?

Of course there are many gamers outside the above mold, but I would warrant a guess that many (once again, certainly not all) of those who emulate Drizzt are doing so because they strongly sympathize and relate to the character.

By cloning the character they are searching for a way to empower themselves, much like Drizzt does in the books.

Also, creativity isn't a given. For some it is actually very hard to think up of new and/or original ideas.

My suggestion, sympathize with those who do this, help them, don't waste your time looking down on them. Many probably have enough bad in their lives already.

woodenbandman
2009-09-19, 06:53 PM
Welcome to the secret society of Drizzt haters. I'm sure you've probably realized by now that everyone is a member.

EDIT: If I were to play a drow, it'd be a guy acting like a drizzt clone but is actually evil(I'd drop hints though). Example:

Fighter:"We have to save the village!"
Drow:"Huh?"
Fighter:"It's burning down! We need to save those people!"
Drow:"...Yes, I agree!"

FoE
2009-09-19, 06:57 PM
Truthfully, for all ye jokes of Drizzt clones, I nevar be seein' one off the port bow except in ye webcomics.

Green Bean
2009-09-19, 07:03 PM
I am soooooooo very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very envious of you two.:smallannoyed:

It isn't as fun as it sounds. Believe it or not, characters who are based entirely on not being Drizzt are just as boring as those who are.

Matthew
2009-09-19, 07:05 PM
So the above was more of a rant, and I'm sorry. A more serious question to the boards though. I've looked over Drizzit's stats in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I have to say, I'm disappointed. How the heck is he a CR 18. One on one with even some of the single class fighters of the same level would wollup this guy in 1-3 rounds tops.

Back in 1989 Drizzt was an exploitation of some first edition rules that appeared in Unearthed Arcana, but even then he was technically illegal. In second edition he was pretty powerful and also broke the rules of the game. In D20/4e he no longer broke the rules of the game, but WotC designers notoriously do not present NPCs with optimised builds, so he looks weak by comparison. Dunno what his statistics are for D20/4e.

Xallace
2009-09-19, 07:05 PM
I know one guy who plays chaotic good high elven ranger/fighters dual-wielding scimitars and raging against drow society, but I've never actually seen anyone other than myself play a drow.

And I was a TN arachnaphobic assassin worshiper of Vhaerun. Not really Drizz't or anti-Drizz't.

Dixieboy
2009-09-19, 07:08 PM
It isn't as fun as it sounds. Believe it or not, characters who are based entirely on not being Drizzt are just as boring as those who are.

To clarify a bit:

In their quests to be the complete opposite of this character sense kinda goes out the window.
You:"We saved the princess"
"It": "Great, now I'll go ahead and sacrifice this thing to my god lolth, and then I'm taking you all as slaves"
You ":smallannoyed:"

Rixx
2009-09-19, 07:10 PM
My friend plays a Drow, but as being completely apathetic to everything around her rather than raging against Drow society.

Green Bean
2009-09-19, 07:19 PM
To clarify a bit:

In their quests to be the complete opposite of this character sense kinda goes out the window.
You:"We saved the princess"
"It": "Great, now I'll go ahead and sacrifice this thing to my god lolth, and then I'm taking you all as slaves"
You ":smallannoyed:"

Or, even worse:

You: We're going to have to execute these prisoners, but as dark and gritty PCs, it won't be a problem
'Anti-Drizzt': I will do it, because I'm not like those weak Drow who are good guys, amirite?
You: Uh, sure
'Anti-Drizzt': No angst at all here. Isn't this so much better than being a goodie two-shoes?
You: ....okay, I get it
'Anti-Drizzt': Those Drow who are good are so patheti-
You: I get it!

[Two Scenes Later]

'Anti-Drizzt': You know who I hate? Good Drow!
You: Gah!

Jade_Tarem
2009-09-19, 07:22 PM
You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW - a combination of our preteen fixation on how cool that character is coupled with a general lack of imagination. In a deep, dark, corner of these gamers' minds, there is the whisper, "If you play a character like that, *you'll* be cool too!"

Honestly, I read the Legend of Drizzt books, and very early on I came to the realization that Drizzt is the least interesting thing about them, followed closely by Wulfgar and Artemis Entreri. Every other character has at least a bit of mystery to them, some kind of variation in how they behave. With those three, you can already tell what they're going to do whenever a situation arises - Drizzt will attempt to avoid bloodshed, since Drizzt is noble, empathetic, and nauseatingly faux-tragic, and then he'll kick butt to fulfill the cool part of his character. Artemis Entreri will seek combat with Drizzt. Wulfgar will act like a stereotypical barbarian. The only times when they act outside of this rigid mold (maybe half a dozen times in thirteen books) are the most interesting and frequently humorous parts of the story.

Worse still, Drizzt is, for lack of a better term, perfect. Yes, perfect. His flaws are never his fault. The hundreds of crimes and killings he's done are never his fault. Anything remotely bad he does is either explained away as heroic very quickly or else is a result of him caring too much. He's much more of a superhero than an epic hero. He's the messiah of the Underdark. Drizzt can do no wrong!

Most of the other characters have at least a bit of ambiguity to them, not to mention a flaw that can't be blamed on their heritage. Bruenor is impatient, short tempered, far too stubborn, and terrible with social graces. Wulfgar is all those things as well, and adds to that being sexist and not very bright - and after his trip to the abyss he's not exactly improved. Cattie-brie has willpower/courage issues, not to mention Princess Peach syndrome. Regis is greedy, dishonest, and stinks in combat in a way that's unforgivable when you're travelling with Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, and Cattie-brie. Less important characters like Morik, Zaknafein, and Robillard are actually even more complete in the personality and behavoir department, which means that the less important you are to the plot of these books, the better your character.

The thing is, though, that playing characters with flaws is hard. When we're able to make a superhuman avatar that represents us, even in a fantasy world, we naturally want to appear as awesome as possible. This is why the characters of new players tend to resemble Drizzt and Elminster - they're literally compensating. In real life, they may be picked on at school or what have you, but in the DnD session, it's superhero time, baby!

So they play as Drizzt, and not as Bruenor or Robillard, because why have flaws when you could not have flaws? Once they gain some experience with roleplaying, they realize that these characters are boring. Then the Drizzt/Legolas/Elminster clones fade away to be replaced with better, more memorable characters. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

Woot Spitum
2009-09-19, 07:29 PM
I have yet to see any drow rangers in any game I have played, but not many people I know of have actually read the books.

I can think of two serious methods and one humorous one to deal with it. One option would be to change the way the alignment system works for humanoids, ruling that there are no inherently good or evil races, only good or evil individuals. The other option would be to have your party adventure in areas where no one has ever heard of drow. If you want to go the humorous route, make it so your group adventures in an area full of chaotic good drow hippie communes.

Zeta Kai
2009-09-19, 07:55 PM
The only drow that my players have chosen to run was a lawful evil rogue who wasn't as bad as he claimed to be, & was exiled from drow society from ripping of Lolthian clerics. I've played in other people's games with CG ranger drow, & it's not that bad after a few sessions. Everything's relative, I guess.

FMArthur
2009-09-19, 07:57 PM
You wanna be a good drow ranger, eh? Good effing luck avoiding the optimized drow assassins using magic to search for you.

1dominator
2009-09-19, 08:00 PM
You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW

Chinese gold farmers?

In all honesty though It is probably because most people lack imagination and playing as a good drow fits the preconceived formula many have of originality.
i.e. The character concept is "unique" in the sense that it's not part of the supposed majority. Because most drow are listed as evil, a good drow should stand out and be considered original.

Shpadoinkle
2009-09-19, 08:01 PM
As a dm with a non-underdark adventuring campaign with all human/dwarf/etc., races in mostly human lands, it gets a little fusturating to hear this guy go off that people should be afraid of him, hostile, and whatnot.

I'd indulge him. Seriously. When he says that, ask to see his character sheet for a second, then rip it up and say "You get lynched and die a horrible painful death. Roll up a new character. No drow."

Hawriel
2009-09-19, 08:25 PM
I had a friend a long time ago who played a drow ranger that used longswords. Thats as fair as he got to being a Drizzt clone. He did his own thing and was killed by the party when he betrayed us to a vampire wile in ravenloft.

The only time Ive ever ran into the hated Drizzt clone is on MMOs. It was so bad that I started to time how long it would take to run into one after starting a new MMO. Shortest time was 30 seconds. In STG it took almost a month.

Drizzt isnt the only one who gamers copy when making characters. Ive seen many peaple on these boards ask for advice for characters based on anime, movie or novels.

Volkov
2009-09-19, 08:29 PM
Say a huge flood basalt eruption and a meteor impact wiped out the drow. It's extreme but it works.

Xallace
2009-09-19, 08:31 PM
Say a huge flood basalt eruption and a meteor impact wiped out the drow. It's extreme but it works.

That was a very selective apocalypse.

Jade_Tarem
2009-09-19, 08:32 PM
That was a very selective apocalypse.

Being the DM has its perks. Would you prefer a fiendish Dire Mole infestation?

Volkov
2009-09-19, 08:33 PM
That was a very selective apocalypse.
Fine you caught me, the last times that happened, back in the Cretaceous and Permian, %70 to %99 of every last fricken thing died, respectively.

Xallace
2009-09-19, 08:34 PM
Being the DM has its perks. Would you prefer a fiendish Dire Mole infestation?

Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.

Volkov
2009-09-19, 08:38 PM
Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.
The problem is, is that would drive out much worse creatures to the surface world, such as the mind flayers, the beholders, and the aboleths. And a single beholder can pretty much wipe a small town off the face of the campaign setting's primary planet.

Xallace
2009-09-19, 08:43 PM
The problem is, is that would drive out much worse creatures to the surface world, such as the mind flayers, the beholders, and the aboleths. And a single beholder can pretty much wipe a small town off the face of the campaign setting's primary planet.

That's a good point, I concede.

HOWEVER. If we assume the aforementioned pulp sci-fi setting, I'd say aberrations count as aliens. And what are aliens for in pulpy sci-fi?

For punching. By manly men with names like "Buzz Rexington" and "Samuel Washington Democracy."

Volkov
2009-09-19, 08:45 PM
That's a good point, I concede.

HOWEVER. If we assume the aforementioned pulp sci-fi setting, I'd say aberrations count as aliens. And what are aliens for in pulpy sci-fi?

For punching. By manly men with names like "Buzz Rexington" and "Samuel Washington Democracy."

Wouldn't it be fun fighting an army of thousands of beholders with commoners. Oh wait that wouldn't be fun for the humans.

seedjar
2009-09-19, 08:49 PM
Going a little more in depth, lets look at the "stereotypical" gamer:

- At times feels ostracized by, or at the least 'different' than many of those around 'him'
- Is deeply loyal to those who he has formed bonds of friendship with
- Is looking for a path of happiness/ acceptance/ empowerment in life.

Ooh ooh ooooh! There's a living in the basement/underdark joke here but I'm too sick to come up with a snappy one.
~Joe

DarknessLord
2009-09-19, 08:52 PM
Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.

Of course, then there's the dude who wants to play "the last Drow" to get his revenge on the mole people....

Crap, I wanna play that, or one of the side kicks, but still that is awesome!

Volkov
2009-09-19, 08:53 PM
"And then the Last Drow was ambushed and eaten by a giant hyneria while he was swimming, thus ending the dark elves. The rest of the elves were then killed by a huge walrus." - A quote from one of my sillier campaigns.

Bang
2009-09-19, 08:58 PM
The problem is, is that would drive out much worse creatures to the surface world, such as the mind flayers, the beholders, and the aboleths. And a single beholder can pretty much wipe a small town off the face of the campaign setting's primary planet.

...Is this a case agaisnt demonic mole infestation?
Because anywhere a campaign goes from here just has to be good.

I'm dead serious when I say I'm stealing this idea.
Especially the part with the commoners.

Also, I don't believe in Drizzt. I'm pretty sure he's a thing people on this forum made up. And ain't no one convincing me otherwise.

B0nd07
2009-09-19, 09:08 PM
...

So the above was more of a rant, and I'm sorry. A more serious question to the boards though. I've looked over Drizzit's stats in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I have to say, I'm dissappointed. How the heck is he a CR 18. One on one with even some of the single class fighters of the same level would wollup this guy in 1-3 rounds tops.

So what do you guys think? Why is Drizzit so often emulated? Is he good mechanicly? Whats the odds he could go up against half the builds the people on these forums come up with?

Drizzt (along with many other fantasy/fictional characters) was not created with stats in mind. He does things in the novels that either have no rules or blatantly breaks them. But that's OK. He's a character in a series of novels people read for entertainment. Honestly, what's cooler than a duel-scimitar wielding whirling ball of death that happens to also be a dark elf?

Mechanically speaking, the official stats that have been released would probably not stand up to the more optimized builds, which is true for pretty much all of WotC's builds.

The only Drizzt clones I've seen have been in MMOs. Even then it's more of an "Oh look, you're trying to be creative. Too bad there's a couple thousand others." kind of thing. In my group, we've only had one drow PC (played by myself) and that was a half-drow rogue. But if you really have a problem with your players trying to emulate Drizzt, just outlaw drow as a race option.

Korivan
2009-09-19, 09:20 PM
Wouldn't it be fun fighting an army of thousands of beholders with commoners. Oh wait that wouldn't be fun for the humans.

I wonder just how many it would take.... Naw, pointless, all the beholder has to do is telekinesis a boulder for cover and fly out of range...commoners need to stick to cats.

Volkov
2009-09-19, 09:23 PM
Or they could all fire their disintegration rays beneath the human's feet, killing them all with the biggest, and most sudden pit fall trap ever.

Bang
2009-09-19, 09:25 PM
Or they could all fire their disintegration rays beneath the human's feet, killing them all with the biggest, and most sudden pit fall trap ever.
Pffft.

Giant ray-shooting monsters have nothing on commoners.

Volkov
2009-09-19, 09:26 PM
Pffft.

Giant ray-shooting monsters have nothing on commoners.
The Sarcasm is not with you.

Volkov
2009-09-19, 09:28 PM
Of course you could say the Soviet Union came out of a wormhole and exterminated the races of the under-dark with their machine guns and tanks.

Kallisti
2009-09-19, 09:38 PM
In one campaign I was in, the DM seriously wrote into the history of his world the complete and total elimination of the drow. He did it so well and so convincingly that it took us the entire campaign to figure out that he'd chosen the drow specifically to prevent Drizzt clones.

To be honest, though, I've never been a big fan of Drizzt. He's a flat, boring, predictable character. Although, a sneaky CE dark elf ranger who tells people, "So you'll accept Drizzt but not me?! Only one dark elf per century, sorry?! STOP OPPRESSING MY ANGST-FILLED COUNTERCULTURE, YOU ETHNOCENTRIC PINK-SKIN!!" would be pretty awesome. Especially once he guilted people into accepting him, then backstabbed them.

Philistine
2009-09-19, 09:40 PM
Honestly, what's cooler than a duel-scimitar wielding whirling ball of death that happens to also be a dark elf?

Honestly, what isn't cooler than the aforementioned ball of wangst?

speeddemon
2009-09-19, 09:41 PM
guys your all being to harsh here. drizz't (or anti-drizz't) is chosen because people don't have imagination true but how many campaigns have you played that you didn't all meet in a tavern or you didn't travel into a duengon to battle the finally villan who was totally evil and you guys were the heroes who selflesly battle to help others (or if your evil than just to get money) hmm? if so than you have a group of creative people who diverge from what most people do. most groups however follow the standerd adventuring norm which while it may not have that much originalty that dosen't make it bad or worthy of theyre character sheet being ripped up or having an apocalypse wipe out all the drow. i conced the point that some people are too anoying with they're roleplaying however you people have already pointed out ways to counter measure that. So why do alot of you care so much about nobody playing Drizz't or anti-Drizz't like characters or Drow?

Volkov
2009-09-19, 09:43 PM
Or maybe you can say the mind flayers went on an eating binge/feeding frenzy eating all the drow's brains and converting the rest into more mind flayers although they might end up as half mind flayers, and causing their numbers to explode.

Umael
2009-09-19, 10:23 PM
The thing is, though, that playing characters with flaws is hard. When we're able to make a superhuman avatar that represents us, even in a fantasy world, we naturally want to appear as awesome as possible. This is why the characters of new players tend to resemble Drizzt and Elminster - they're literally compensating. In real life, they may be picked on at school or what have you, but in the DnD session, it's superhero time, baby!

So they play as Drizzt, and not as Bruenor or Robillard, because why have flaws when you could not have flaws? Once they gain some experience with roleplaying, they realize that these characters are boring. Then the Drizzt/Legolas/Elminster clones fade away to be replaced with better, more memorable characters. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

...you know, I've been playing RPGs so long, I've forgotten the last time I tried to play a "perfect" character. Flaws are sooooo much more interesting.

(Good post, by the way.)

Tiktakkat
2009-09-19, 10:53 PM
(Good post, by the way.)

I agree.
An excellent overview of the literary copy-cat phenomenon Jade_Tarem.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-09-19, 11:38 PM
Same here. Oddly enough, though, I've seen quite a few evil Drow describing themselves as "not another Drizzt clone"
I've always wanted to play an evil drow passing himself off as a Drizzt clone. :smallamused:

In all seriousness, I've never seen a Drizzt clone in play. And of the gamers I know, very few even know who he or Salvatore is; I myself think the Drizzt books, like all other D&D novels, are mediocre teen fiction at best. So overall, I'm ambivalent about the whole subject.

Woot Spitum
2009-09-19, 11:44 PM
Honestly, what's cooler than a duel-scimitar wielding whirling ball of death that happens to also be a dark elf?A movie about said drow starring Chris Rock?

quick_comment
2009-09-19, 11:55 PM
In a silly campaign I once played a CG Drow Swordsage who was an amalgamation of Drizzt and Chuck Norris.

Xallace
2009-09-20, 12:07 AM
In a silly campaign I once played a CG Drow Swordsage who was an amalgamation of Drizzt and Chuck Norris.

He dual-wielded roundhouse kicks in the name of Mielikki?

herrhauptmann
2009-09-20, 12:12 AM
I've never played a drizzit clone, and have never actually seen someone play him in D&D. I have seen about a dozen players TRY to play him, only to get shot down when the DM challenges them to come up with a good backstory that wasn't a copy of a Salvatore trilogy. When they fail to meet the DM's criteria, they can't play the character.

I have tried writing a dual-wielding drow into a story. The basics behind his personality, he was a rebel. If he's in a lawful evil society and had a beef with someone high up, he'd start being chaotic good. In the drow city he was born in, he was more LG/NG. Never really managed to write that personality properly, but since he was a secondary character of an unfinished story, it was never really an issue.

Speedemon, I see the point of your rant, and I personally won't blame someone for copying a common build (ubercharger, batman wizard, spikedchain tripper, dualwielding rogue skillmonkey). Even if they can't roleplay the personality they thought up, so long as they have a good backstory, it's okay. But come on man, use paragraphs and capital letters.

speeddemon
2009-09-20, 12:31 AM
It seems rather petty to comment on my punctuation.

Xenogears
2009-09-20, 12:35 AM
It seems rather petty to comment on my punctuation.

I disagree. I find it almost impossible to read posts like that one where there are no paragraphs. I 99% of the time skip over them unless they become very important to read.

JadedDM
2009-09-20, 12:45 AM
TOO MANY TIMES, 8 and counting, 9 after last night.

Wow, that's got to be a record. By that point in my campaign world, I figure there would be more stories and lore about the 9 good Drow than the evil ones. If someone played a 10th good Drow, most NPCs would react friendly toward them, thinking all Drow act that way.

Or you could just remove all Drow from the game, like I did. I don't use any sub-races at all, in fact.

Really, I feel Drow were never meant to be playable anyway. They were created to be a tough enemy originally. You don't see people playing angsty rebelling beholders trying to survive in a world that hates them, do you?

Xenogears
2009-09-20, 12:47 AM
Wow, that's got to be a record. By that point in my campaign world, I figure there would be more stories and lore about the 9 good Drow than the evil ones. If someone played a 10th good Drow, most NPCs would react friendly toward them, thinking all Drow act that way.

Or you could just remove all Drow from the game, like I did. I don't use any sub-races at all, in fact.

Really, I feel Drow were never meant to be playable anyway. They were created to be a tough enemy originally. You don't see people playing angsty rebelling beholders trying to survive in a world that hates them, do you?

If Beholders didn't have LA=Way to High then I would. Come on I have infinite create food eye blasts why won't people just accept my gifts when I point my eyestalk at them...

Hat-Trick
2009-09-20, 02:14 AM
I once thought up a drow character. He was a bard/dragon disciple who, he was CG, despised drow culture completely due to the fact that he was raised more by the slaves than other drow and his father savagely murdering one of the said slaves. Basically, he slaughters his parents by causing a slave revolt as a distraction. Took up adventuring to find people to help him destroy drow society as it exists today and freeing as many slaves as possible by buying them in bulk every so often and covering up the escapes through feinted savagery.

Pretty good character that's not Drizzt nor Anti-Drizzt.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-09-20, 02:29 AM
Only drow I've ever played was probably as far from a Drizzt clone as one could get. He was sold when he was a kid and ended up getting bought by a Luskan street gang. The gang leader was an elf with some drow blood, so she wasted no opportunity to beat the poor kid since he reminded her of a part of her past she tried to erase, and just because she was a bigot. Then a paladin of Lathander encountered the gang, gave them a sound thrashing and took the drow as a squire. Years later, the gang leader comes back and is an accomplished swordmage, seeking revenge. She kills the paladin, and then my character took the paladin's sword and killed his former owner in self-defense. Rather than being all angsty about the whole affair, he gave both his mentor and his tormentor proper burials and set out to make Faerun a better place, now a full-fledged paladin in his own right, fighting evil in the Morninglord's name.

He hasn't seen another drow since before he was sold, so he grew up pretty much without the influence of their society to rebel against to begin with. On the other hand being the whipping boy of a street gang from Luskan's likely just as bad.

Mystic Muse
2009-09-20, 02:50 AM
Okay, I'd just like to say, I don't think dismissing ALL characters based off of something else are bad. If they're completely and utterly identical fine. I'd say they're bad, and I'd give them demerits for originality. (Demerits are not actually worth anything. I also plan on handing in a background to my DM that's a complete rip-off of the character I'm basing a future character around. As a joke and only as a joke. I plan on coming up with an actual background I'll make up myself although I'm not very good at them. )

unless a character concept from somewhere else won't work in a D&D game period or they're a complete rip-off I don't think you should always dismiss them.

Yora
2009-09-20, 03:25 AM
In all my years playing RPGs, I have to say I've never seen even one Drizzt clone. I was a staff member for a very big, Roleplaying-heavy, MMO-style Neverwinter Nights server, where we had all players show us a description of their characters before we set them loose on the game. Exactly for the reason to prevent rip-offs and force the players to spend some thoughts on the characters they want to play.
And I've seen plenty of very bad ones, that were great fun for the whole stuff, but I can't remember a single drizzt clone.

Amiria
2009-09-20, 04:10 AM
I'm the proud player of a Drizzt clone (you should have at least written his name right in the title).

See in my spoiler, Rakhsicz Ka'Ryssol who started at the end of the last millenium in AD&D. As a Fighter, iirc, in D&D he morphed into a Ranger/Fighter leveled up more and became a Tempest. With the ToB:BonS he was rebuild and is now a Ranger 2 / Warblade 14.

He isn't an excact Drizzt clone ... he dual-wields longswords (complete with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting) ... and he isn't quite as good-aligned as Drizzt (I'd say CN with CG tendencies) ... and he is not mopey at all.

He is utterly, suicidally fearless and sees life as a game, often to the dismay of his allies and his longtime girlfriend/cohort. To quote ...


"I am Rakhsicz Ka'Ryssol.
I hunt banshees and look at Symbols of Death just for fun.
I decapitate demons and prod halflings into mucky puddles."

He really did all that, yeah.

Hmm, what I want to say is that I don't see something wrong with playing a Drow who's inspired by Drizzt ... non-evil alignment, dual wielding, outdoor skills, etc.
Complete clones (including scimitars with similiar enchantments, a Figurine figurine, being mopey) are lame, I agree.

Killer Angel
2009-09-20, 04:45 AM
You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW.

Not only on WoW.
I've never seen a Drizzt clone at my table, while Legolas' clones...
But with Legolas' clones, it's not so bad: after all, Legolas IS the stereotype of the elven archer, so the PC follow only a stereotype, it's not really a clone of someone else's character.
And in 3.5, the ranger-archer, works slightly better than the ranger-TWF. :smalltongue:

Samurai Jill
2009-09-20, 04:53 AM
It isn't as fun as it sounds. Believe it or not, characters who are based entirely on not being Drizzt are just as boring as those who are.
Bruce Lee-
"...do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it."

...And:
"Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there."

Glass Mouse
2009-09-20, 05:52 AM
I've never seen a Drizz't clone, either. Remind me to never show Salvatore to my newb players.

Personally, I always thought it more interesting to break stereotypes within the limits that exist. Sure, it would be "original" to play a LG drow, born different from the other drow, now roaming the surface world, but isn't it much more fun to play a perfectly normal NE drow who just happens to be in a position where hirs nature is put to better use in an adventuring party?
If I break stereotypes, I'd much rather have coincidences and outside interference create my characters' difference than the typical "OMG so special and misunderstood" stuff.

Grumman
2009-09-20, 06:39 AM
I once created a drow ranger who was outcast from her family. It had nothing to do with being good, though - she was just too busy hunting mindflayers to notice the great big "Backstab me" sign, courtesy of her more court-smart sister.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-20, 07:50 AM
I played a Drow Ranger who railed against the mainstream culture of his kin and was part of an Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

Obligatory "I-ain't-no-Drizzt" disclaimer: He served Vhaeraun, as did the rest of the party. Ironically, this makes him almost a Salvatore clone, as (upon wiki-searching) his story is analogous to the Condemnation book (War of the Spider Queen, Book 3). The campaign didn't last long enough to see whether we failed or not.

AslanCross
2009-09-20, 07:53 AM
I've had a player go as a female wood elf TWF ranger, but thankfully not any Drow. I've never had anyone play as a Drow.

And yes, his build sucks. They'd have to make him a warblade or swordsage to emulate the crazy stuff he does in the books.


Once more, for the record: Drizzt is spelled with no apostrophes. The apostrophe appears in Do'Urden. Graz'zt, however, does have an apostrophe.

The Glyphstone
2009-09-20, 08:04 AM
Someday I'm going to play a Lawful Evil Wood Elf Ranger who dual-wields Kukris as he wanders the Underdark, desperately fighting to overcome the goody-two-shoes reputation of his surface-dwelling kin.:smallsmile:

Morty
2009-09-20, 08:14 AM
I've never seen a Drizzt clone either. I have, however, seen people use such characters as an argument against using a "usually evil" race in any other way than evil mooks.

Serenity
2009-09-20, 08:37 AM
I always find this argument frankly disingenuous. Sure, lots of people might try to imitate him--but the attempted imitation of characters in RPG is just part of geek culture. See the perennial 'Stat out the characters' threads on this very site.

And more than that, I often feel like any similarities get disparaged, regardless of any differences that might exist. Any attempt to play a non-evil or relatively well-adjusted drow is met with scorn and derision--while a kobold, ogre, or what have you with the same general backstory would get a pass. Playing good rebels from evil and monstrous societies is fun. If you don't want that in your campaign, fine, but don't single out the drow over it, just because their archetypal rebel is well-known.

I especially dislike the reaction of 'Drizzt clones are bad, I'm gonna play a drow who's an evil Lolth-worshiping psycho!' I generally don't find evil characters fun, unless the campaign was specifically designed for such, and the system definitely assumes that most campaigns will be built for good and neutral characters. Playing a NE Drow just to 'not be a Drizzt clone' strikes me as tabletop trolling.

Vangor
2009-09-20, 08:49 AM
Any attempt to play a non-evil or relatively well-adjusted drow is met with scorn and derision--while a kobold, ogre, or what have you with the same general backstory would get a pass. Playing good rebels from evil and monstrous societies is fun. If you don't want that in your campaign, fine, but don't single out the drow over it, just because their archetypal rebel is well-known.

What we are talking about, though, are people who do attempt to roleplay as Drizzt, which is significantly different than preferring the statistics of the Drow for a Ranger but wanting to be included in the, as you noted, generally good or neutral party. I cannot disagree with using Scimitars, either. However, we are speaking about mechanical aspects, not wanting to play the good Drow Ranger dual-wielding scimitars with a Panther from a Figurine of Wondrous Power you call Guen.

I mean, why not be a Drow Wizard outcast? Why are all of the ones I hear of Rangers...? Fortunately, I only hear of these.

Glass Mouse
2009-09-20, 11:17 AM
...
I especially dislike the reaction of 'Drizzt clones are bad, I'm gonna play a drow who's an evil Lolth-worshiping psycho!' I generally don't find evil characters fun, unless the campaign was specifically designed for such, and the system definitely assumes that most campaigns will be built for good and neutral characters. Playing a NE Drow just to 'not be a Drizzt clone' strikes me as tabletop trolling.

Haha, yeah, the "Drizzt clone" and the "NOT another Drizzt clone" are equally bad. Mostly because you'll have to be pretty Stupid Evil to really prove how unlike Drizzt you are.

Drow: "Yeah... yeah, sure I'll help my coho... ahem, friends rescue the orphanage. No, wait, isn't that what Drizzt would do? Damn it, NO ONE is gonna accuse me of goody-two-shoe-ness! Guess I'm gonna burn the thing down, instead."

Talya
2009-09-20, 11:21 AM
I get equally tired as those who associate any Chaotic Good drow with being a Drizzt clone.

Eilistraee (whom Drizzt does not worship, and has a fascinating style for her worshippers completely different from Drizzt) was the best addition ever to the Faerun pantheon. Her removal is a solid reason for avoiding 4e altogether!

A goddess attempting to redeem her species from the clutches of evil, and the perils all who worship her must face both from above and below, they just make great plot hooks.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-20, 11:39 AM
So what do you guys think? Why is Drizzit so often emulated?
Well, for starters, the 3E and 4E ranger classes were mostly based upon Drizz't (whereas older rangers were more like Aragorn, who is decidedly less of a Mary-Sue).

Regardless, just point people to Zz'dtri, or Drizz'l (http://www.nuklearpower.com/8-bit-theater/), or Drizizzle-ma-shizzle (http://www.elfonlyinn.net/fools2.html) and see if they clue in...

Indon
2009-09-20, 11:43 AM
Well, for starters, the 3E and 4E ranger classes were mostly based upon Drizz't (whereas older rangers were more like Aragorn, who is decidedly less of a Mary-Sue).

Only when compared to Gandalf - Aragorn was still an Absolutely Awesome Guy with an Angsty Past and a Lineage he insisted on refusing until right near the very end of the story.

I'm pretty sure he'd score high on most modern Mary Sue metrics.

Anyway, never played/seen a Drizzt clone myself, but I have essentially played an Elric clone (which Drizzt himself is basically a less-awesome version of).

Why be a ranger when you can be a Sorceror (probably a Battle Sorceror) instead?

Kurald Galain
2009-09-20, 11:57 AM
Only when compared to Gandalf - Aragorn was still an Absolutely Awesome Guy with an Angsty Past and a Lineage he insisted on refusing until right near the very end of the story.

I'm pretty sure he'd score high on most modern Mary Sue metrics.
Well, ok, he does get the hot elf princess chick in the end.

On the other hand, he doesn't single-handedly defeat Sauron in combat, nor actually destroy the ring, nor kill thousands of orcs with one swordblow; he doesn't have color-changing eyes, doesn't engage in purple prose with Eowyn, and his name isn't an anagram of Tolkien's. Compared to Ayla, or Tomas, or Westley, or Richard, Langdon or even Elminster, I don't think he's really such a bad character.

Killer Angel
2009-09-20, 12:17 PM
Regardless, just point people to Zz'dtri, or Drizz'l (http://www.nuklearpower.com/8-bit-theater/), or Drizizzle-ma-shizzle (http://www.elfonlyinn.net/fools2.html) and see if they clue in...


Don't forget these (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20050710.html) links (http://goblins.keenspot.com/d/20050711.html)!

TheWerdna
2009-09-20, 12:53 PM
Someday I'm going to play a Lawful Evil Wood Elf Ranger who dual-wields Kukris as he wanders the Underdark, desperately fighting to overcome the goody-two-shoes reputation of his surface-dwelling kin.:smallsmile:


You sir, have won the thread.

I realy, realy want to make this charecter now for kicks.

Athan Allgood
2009-09-20, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
Someday I'm going to play a Lawful Evil Wood Elf Ranger who dual-wields Kukris as he wanders the Underdark, desperately fighting to overcome the goody-two-shoes reputation of his surface-dwelling kin.


You sir, have won the thread.

I realy, realy want to make this charecter now for kicks.

Yeah, and it'll be the best five minute quest you've ever played in.

GM: "So... you're playing a... Wood Elf? In my underdark evil only campaign set in the Drow city of Karnosembitzan? Really?"

Player: "Yeah, it'll be epi..."

GM: "You are approached by a squadron of house enforcers who capture you despite your best efforts to prevent it, and are subsequently tortured for the next 12 weeks before finally being ripped asunder by whatever is the worst horror your character can fathom (a fear they discovered during your weeks of confinement and torture.)"

Player: "... ... ..."

GM: "So, that was fun, whats your next character? Let me guess, a beast mastery Ranger with a bear pet, and who wears armor made of honey covered meat?"

Korivan
2009-09-20, 07:56 PM
GM: "So, that was fun, whats your next character? Let me guess, a beast mastery Ranger with a bear pet, and who wears armor made of honey covered meat?"

LOL, or a commoner with a paper shield and sword.

Jade_Tarem
2009-09-20, 11:08 PM
LOL, or a commoner with a paper shield and sword.

Who abuses his cat.

Harperfan7
2009-09-21, 12:30 AM
I don't understand why I've never met a person who didn't like drizzt while not on the computer. Everybody I know who read the books said they liked them. Where do you people come from?

As far as fantasy characters go, I love drizzt and elminster. I always wondered why it seemed to me that bob and ed were always kinda defending their characters in their books and bashing young, arrogant hotheads who thought they were the ****. Then I got internet.

I have to admit, the fact that bob and ed even respond to haters in their books lowers my opinon of them.

Anyways, I've never seen a drizzt clone or met a person who wanted to play one. I did play a CG drow fighter once, but he had a battleaxe and a shield, and that was a good two years before I read any drizzt books, and I have a cousin who absolutely cannot come up with something on his own and almost always plays a drow or half-drow, but never a drow ranger.

Myatar_Panwar
2009-09-21, 12:58 AM
People dream about Drizzt clones because they work. Going out the door you already have alot to work off of. The same is true for alot of other stereotypes, such as the Big Dumb Barbarian or the Generic Righteous Paladin. This is all assuming that "Drizzt Clone" means a rebeling dark elf with trouble on the surface. Not someone specifically pretending to be Drizzt.

And there really isn't anything inherently wrong with playing one of these characters either. They work as long as your fellow players arn't overly cynical or ****-ish about it.

Radiun
2009-09-21, 01:15 AM
...Compared to Ayla, or Tomas...

I mis-read you and thought you meant "Arya, or Tomas" which got me thinking of A Game of Thrones which fueled my nerd-rage and would have meant you and I would have had words (such as "WTH did Arya do?")
Thankfully I'm just a blind man and Arya Stark remains beloved by all:smallbiggrin::smallwink:

ondonaflash
2009-09-21, 02:44 AM
What if the player doesn't put up the pretense of making a somewhat different character and instead asks to play "Drizzt Do'Urden of House Dearmon N'a'Shezbearnon, 9th House of Menzoberranzan, who abandoned his city and fled to the Underdark after the death of his father."

What if rather than trying to make a shoddy look-a-like he decided to play the character? Would you find that better or worse?

Kurald Galain
2009-09-21, 02:49 AM
What if rather than trying to make a shoddy look-a-like he decided to play the character? Would you find that better or worse?

Better because at least he's honest about it. But I would veto this character because it assumes all kinds of backstory which probably does not apply to the campaign we're playing in.

In my experience, at least, players who want to play a character from Book X also expect the events of Book X to happen in the campaign, which I'm not going to do (even if the campaign was explicitly based on Book X to begin with, I would place it after the events in said book)


I don't understand why I've never met a person who didn't like drizzt while not on the computer. Everybody I know who read the books said they liked them. Where do you people come from?
Because both Drizzt and in particular Elminster are Canon Sues (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanonSue).

Nai_Calus
2009-09-21, 05:12 AM
I hate Eilistraee actually, she's a massive hypocrite and so is her religion.

I've made a couple of drow characters, both clerics. There's Isri Arellan, CG Cleric of Corellon Larethian, whose 'struggle against the evil reputation of his fellows' is mostly to ignore it and simply be your typical elven cleric of Corellon, and occasionally travels back to the Underdark to find other drow who like he once was weren't particularly enamored of either drow society or being EVAL and bring them to the surface to also live like your typical elves. And then there's Kerazt Vareth, CN cleric of Vhaeraun, smarmy, likes surface elven women, wine, song, is a terrible thief but does it anyway, makes ridiculously overblown grandiose plans for the simplest things and handles the reputation of the drow by not giving a damn about it.

Drizzt can burn and die in a fire.

Glass Mouse
2009-09-21, 06:56 AM
In my experience, at least, players who want to play a character from Book X also expect the events of Book X to happen in the campaign, which I'm not going to do (even if the campaign was explicitly based on Book X to begin with, I would place it after the events in said book)

This.

It's like when people create any extremely attention-grabbing character - you just don't want to play with a character who's supposed to have all the spotlight.

Talya
2009-09-21, 07:28 AM
I hate Eilistraee actually, she's a massive hypocrite and so is her religion.


How do you justify that statement.

Starshade
2009-09-21, 08:05 AM
I love the Drizzt books, and honestly would not care if someone made clones in a campagin. What if those books ARE the sole FR books the player has read?
Those books, are the D&D books most read by ppl i know, so its not strange its many clones. Personally, id do a original twist myself on the concept if i was to make a drow, as a runaway drow psion, escaping Illithid slavery and learning the use of his mind as power source, wielding the mental powers as the mind flayers use, against them, etc. :smallsmile:

Kaiyanwang
2009-09-21, 08:17 AM
Never seen a Drizz't clone, myself. For my gamign group Drows are not even PC race..

In an evil campaign, I'd play a "classic" drow because I love them, anyway.

Sorcery, demonology.. spiders, poison.. all of that.

GoufCustom
2009-09-21, 11:12 AM
Personally, I would just never really be interested in making a Drizzt clone.

A Jarlaxle clone on the other hand...

Yay CN!

ondonaflash
2009-09-21, 11:50 PM
You know who're even worse that the Drizzt clones? The Sturm clones. Those guys are just *****.

JadedDM
2009-09-22, 12:24 AM
The Sturm clones aren't so bad, since they keep dying so early on in the adventure.

Jan Mattys
2009-09-22, 02:05 AM
You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW - a combination of our preteen fixation on how cool that character is coupled with a general lack of imagination. In a deep, dark, corner of these gamers' minds, there is the whisper, "If you play a character like that, *you'll* be cool too!"

Honestly, I read the Legend of Drizzt books, and very early on I came to the realization that Drizzt is the least interesting thing about them, followed closely by Wulfgar and Artemis Entreri. Every other character has at least a bit of mystery to them, some kind of variation in how they behave. With those three, you can already tell what they're going to do whenever a situation arises - Drizzt will attempt to avoid bloodshed, since Drizzt is noble, empathetic, and nauseatingly faux-tragic, and then he'll kick butt to fulfill the cool part of his character. Artemis Entreri will seek combat with Drizzt. Wulfgar will act like a stereotypical barbarian. The only times when they act outside of this rigid mold (maybe half a dozen times in thirteen books) are the most interesting and frequently humorous parts of the story.

Worse still, Drizzt is, for lack of a better term, perfect. Yes, perfect. His flaws are never his fault. The hundreds of crimes and killings he's done are never his fault. Anything remotely bad he does is either explained away as heroic very quickly or else is a result of him caring too much. He's much more of a superhero than an epic hero. He's the messiah of the Underdark. Drizzt can do no wrong!

Most of the other characters have at least a bit of ambiguity to them, not to mention a flaw that can't be blamed on their heritage. Bruenor is impatient, short tempered, far too stubborn, and terrible with social graces. Wulfgar is all those things as well, and adds to that being sexist and not very bright - and after his trip to the abyss he's not exactly improved. Cattie-brie has willpower/courage issues, not to mention Princess Peach syndrome. Regis is greedy, dishonest, and stinks in combat in a way that's unforgivable when you're travelling with Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, and Cattie-brie. Less important characters like Morik, Zaknafein, and Robillard are actually even more complete in the personality and behavoir department, which means that the less important you are to the plot of these books, the better your character.

The thing is, though, that playing characters with flaws is hard. When we're able to make a superhuman avatar that represents us, even in a fantasy world, we naturally want to appear as awesome as possible. This is why the characters of new players tend to resemble Drizzt and Elminster - they're literally compensating. In real life, they may be picked on at school or what have you, but in the DnD session, it's superhero time, baby!

So they play as Drizzt, and not as Bruenor or Robillard, because why have flaws when you could not have flaws? Once they gain some experience with roleplaying, they realize that these characters are boring. Then the Drizzt/Legolas/Elminster clones fade away to be replaced with better, more memorable characters. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

I think I love you.

Kurald Galain
2009-09-22, 02:53 AM
You know who're even worse that the Drizzt clones? The Sturm clones.

Who? Never heard of him.

JadedDM
2009-09-22, 05:19 PM
Who? Never heard of him.

Sturm Brightblade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_Brightblade) from Dragonlance, a human fighter who trained to be a knight and died (for good) in the second book.

Eldariel
2009-09-22, 05:25 PM
Sturm Brightblade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturm_Brightblade) from Dragonlance, a human fighter who trained to be a knight and died (for good) in the second book.

I don't think his "imitations" are really his imitations that often though; he's just your generic Knight With A Stick Up His Arse and Knight In A Shining Armor, not a rare archetype in classic literature or fiction in general.

"Sturm clones" can just as often be characters based on the archetype given how easily Sturm fits the said archetype; rather than being Sturm-clones one could just call them "generic knights" and indeed, it's a character concept someone who has never heard of Sturm could easily generate.

Drakyn
2009-09-22, 05:27 PM
In one campaign I was in, the DM seriously wrote into the history of his world the complete and total elimination of the drow. He did it so well and so convincingly that it took us the entire campaign to figure out that he'd chosen the drow specifically to prevent Drizzt clones.

I know this is a massive, multi-page callback, but I am actually immensely interested in hearing this. I don't mind Drizzt, but I loathe the crap out of drow in general.

Talya
2009-09-22, 05:31 PM
You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW - a combination of our preteen fixation on how cool that character is coupled with a general lack of imagination. In a deep, dark, corner of these gamers' minds, there is the whisper, "If you play a character like that, *you'll* be cool too!"

Honestly, I read the Legend of Drizzt books, and very early on I came to the realization that Drizzt is the least interesting thing about them, followed closely by Wulfgar and Artemis Entreri. Every other character has at least a bit of mystery to them, some kind of variation in how they behave. With those three, you can already tell what they're going to do whenever a situation arises - Drizzt will attempt to avoid bloodshed, since Drizzt is noble, empathetic, and nauseatingly faux-tragic, and then he'll kick butt to fulfill the cool part of his character. Artemis Entreri will seek combat with Drizzt. Wulfgar will act like a stereotypical barbarian. The only times when they act outside of this rigid mold (maybe half a dozen times in thirteen books) are the most interesting and frequently humorous parts of the story.

Worse still, Drizzt is, for lack of a better term, perfect. Yes, perfect. His flaws are never his fault. The hundreds of crimes and killings he's done are never his fault. Anything remotely bad he does is either explained away as heroic very quickly or else is a result of him caring too much. He's much more of a superhero than an epic hero. He's the messiah of the Underdark. Drizzt can do no wrong!

Most of the other characters have at least a bit of ambiguity to them, not to mention a flaw that can't be blamed on their heritage. Bruenor is impatient, short tempered, far too stubborn, and terrible with social graces. Wulfgar is all those things as well, and adds to that being sexist and not very bright - and after his trip to the abyss he's not exactly improved. Cattie-brie has willpower/courage issues, not to mention Princess Peach syndrome. Regis is greedy, dishonest, and stinks in combat in a way that's unforgivable when you're travelling with Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, and Cattie-brie. Less important characters like Morik, Zaknafein, and Robillard are actually even more complete in the personality and behavoir department, which means that the less important you are to the plot of these books, the better your character.

The thing is, though, that playing characters with flaws is hard. When we're able to make a superhuman avatar that represents us, even in a fantasy world, we naturally want to appear as awesome as possible. This is why the characters of new players tend to resemble Drizzt and Elminster - they're literally compensating. In real life, they may be picked on at school or what have you, but in the DnD session, it's superhero time, baby!

So they play as Drizzt, and not as Bruenor or Robillard, because why have flaws when you could not have flaws? Once they gain some experience with roleplaying, they realize that these characters are boring. Then the Drizzt/Legolas/Elminster clones fade away to be replaced with better, more memorable characters. Hang in there. This too shall pass.


How'd I miss this post?

I dislike Elminster for precisely the reasons you've mentioned here. You make a lot of very good points, in general, it was a great read.

However, Drizzt, while boring to clone, doesn't fit this at all. Drizzt is VERY flawed. He takes everything to their extremes. He's not balanced. He's like a child, lost trying to find his place in the world when he's never seen a morality that fits him. He bounces from overconfidence to insecurity, from pacifism to predatory killer. He's afraid of relationships.

Furthermore, he's not as powerful as people make him out to be. He gets defeated...if not exactly frequently, several times. Entreri practically kills him at one point (or has him on Death's door if not for Jarlaxle's intervention.) Speaking of Jarlaxle, Drizzt survives several times only due to Jarlaxle's lack of drowish malice. Gerti Orelsdottr kicks Drizzt's ass. So does Obould Many-Arrows.

I will agree with you that he's hardly the most interesting of his acquaintances...the aforementioned Jarlaxle may be one of the most fun characters ever. He's the Jack Sparrow of the underdark, only he plans things through just a little better.

Jergmo
2009-09-22, 06:23 PM
Gerti Orelsdottr kicks Drizzt's ass. So does Obould Many-Arrows.

In Drizzt's defense, Obould Many-Arrows was a rather metal Orc. I don't remember Gerti punting him, though. I thought they just tried to ambush her in her bath (so ungentleman-like) and they left after infuriating her.

Gnaeus
2009-09-22, 07:08 PM
When you play a character who is obviously an imitation of a fictional character (not inspired by, imitating, it is different), you will almost always get awful reactions from other players.

If I hate Mr. Salvatore and his characters, I am not very likely to enjoy your knock off.

If I love Mr. Salvatore and his characters, your knock off is unlikely to measure up. Your character (who is not the protagonist of a series of novels) will always be getting direct comparisons to my beloved RP icon, and unless you are an awesome roleplayer with a good DM and fantastic luck, you will never measure up to heroics designed by a professional writer with lots of time to think about exactly what his characters will do. The more I see your knock off, the more unfavorable comparisons I am likely to draw ("in my opinion, x would NEVER have done THAT!!!").

Finally, it isn't necessarily complementary to the author.

I was once fortunate enough to be hanging out with a professional writer when she came across a player playing one of her characters (The writer was C.S. Friedman, the player was playing Gerald Terrant, a vampire wizard thing from one of her series). Celia got Pissed! She said that it was her intellectual property, and he shouldn't be using it without her permission, which he certainly didn't have. She almost got his character banned from play, and she did get the DM to force a name change. Don't do this.

Akal Saris
2009-09-22, 07:46 PM
Heh, that's pretty crazy about the author!

I'm actually in a PBP game where we each play the original Dragonlance characters (I'm Caramon!) going through the Chronicles (which are inevitably changed by our own actions - Raistlin died to the black dragon in Xak Tsaroth in our game, for example).

One of the PCs is playing Sturm, and he was urged to join the PBP game by his PhD advisor, Nancy Varian Berberick - one of the classic Dragonlance writers! So there's cases where the original writers actually condone these "homages" to their characters as well =)

JadedDM
2009-09-22, 08:29 PM
I don't think his "imitations" are really his imitations that often though; he's just your generic Knight With A Stick Up His Arse and Knight In A Shining Armor, not a rare archetype in classic literature or fiction in general.

"Sturm clones" can just as often be characters based on the archetype given how easily Sturm fits the said archetype; rather than being Sturm-clones one could just call them "generic knights" and indeed, it's a character concept someone who has never heard of Sturm could easily generate.

I'm pretty sure there are no Sturm clones. It was a just a joke, because who wants to imitate a dull as a dishwater character who dies (albeit, heroically)?